Imaging Help

[jiffy]

I have read a lot about how people don't like rear speakers because it
ruins imaging and you can tell sound is comming from behind you.

I currently have my fader set to front speakers only, and yea, I can
tell the sound it infront of me, but it doesn't seem like anything
special.

Is it possible for the average joe to get that "sweet spot" your hear
when you put your head between 2 speakers in a car? If it is not, I
can't see the benefit of running front speakers only....

FYI: I have an Alero, with speakers in the door panels, and tweeters in
the sail panels.


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jiffy
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[MOSFET]

I find that a little rear-fill (this is the term we typically use for
back-speakers) helps raise and center my soundstage. I would try just a
little rear-fill and see if it helps. Your car should NOT sound like
headphones (the sound coming from all directions), you should have a clearly
discernable soundstage in front of you. Some people run their rear-fill in
mono (summing the right and left channel). I used to do this with the
system I had in a Maxima. I thought it helped give me a more stable center
image.

The "best" way to go (which I currently do not have) is to have some kind of
DSP processing for the rear speakers so the sound is delayed a very small
amount. This will mimic the way sound is reflected off the back wall of a
room (or concert hall) and can create a very realistic listening
environment.

But again, a small amount of rear-fill often (but not always) enhances the
soundstage.

MOSFET


"jiffy" > wrote in message
news:1111060050.b196b7f881a46fb99e8482aac39b87ae@t eranews...
>
> I have read a lot about how people don't like rear speakers because it
> ruins imaging and you can tell sound is comming from behind you.
>
> I currently have my fader set to front speakers only, and yea, I can
> tell the sound it infront of me, but it doesn't seem like anything
> special.
>
> Is it possible for the average joe to get that "sweet spot" your hear
> when you put your head between 2 speakers in a car? If it is not, I
> can't see the benefit of running front speakers only....
>
> FYI: I have an Alero, with speakers in the door panels, and tweeters in
> the sail panels.
>
>
> --
> jiffy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jiffy's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/member.php?userid=33416
> View this thread:
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>

[[email protected]]

Turning off the rear speakers doesn't mean your going to have good
imaging. You need kickpanels/speaker placement and/or time correction
to help with that.

[MZ]

A lot depends on the car too.

If your front speakers sound insufficient alone, then they probably are.
Rear fill can help in some instances, but it shouldn't be the difference
maker.

"jiffy" > wrote in message
news:1111060050.b196b7f881a46fb99e8482aac39b87ae@t eranews...
>
> I have read a lot about how people don't like rear speakers because it
> ruins imaging and you can tell sound is comming from behind you.
>
> I currently have my fader set to front speakers only, and yea, I can
> tell the sound it infront of me, but it doesn't seem like anything
> special.
>
> Is it possible for the average joe to get that "sweet spot" your hear
> when you put your head between 2 speakers in a car? If it is not, I
> can't see the benefit of running front speakers only....
>
> FYI: I have an Alero, with speakers in the door panels, and tweeters in
> the sail panels.
>
>
> --
> jiffy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jiffy's Profile: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/member.php?userid=33416
> View this thread:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=213619
> CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online!
>

[[email protected]]

I tried hearing front speaks only. i did not like it. So I installed
amp and rear speaker.
Man I got the best sound I got. It's like whole music listening and
like a new sound to me. The extra bit of push on bass from back is so
match my imaging sound.
Good thing you mentioned it. I dont' know if I like to install sub cuz
I don't like too much
bass sound, and in addition, my stereo does like to play with Hip-Hop
music.

[Chad Wahls]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I tried hearing front speaks only. i did not like it. So I installed
> amp and rear speaker.
> Man I got the best sound I got. It's like whole music listening and
> like a new sound to me. The extra bit of push on bass from back is so
> match my imaging sound.
> Good thing you mentioned it. I dont' know if I like to install sub cuz
> I don't like too much
> bass sound, and in addition, my stereo does like to play with Hip-Hop
> music.
>

Wow...

For some people a decent sized pair of rear deck speakers will produce
sufficient bass.

As for rear fill, there is no right or wrong in my eyes. I hate it, others
love it, it's a matter of taste.

Chad

[[email protected]]

FWIW, I use about 20% power to the rears. Without it just sounds empty.
I also use time correction to help with the poor OEM speaker location.

[Bob]

Now I'm worried - I've ONLY got rear fill (my front speakers were blown
when I bought POS car and I haven't yet replaced them). However, I've
found in other cars that the music sounds a bit 'empty' without some
rear fill. You can definitely mess with the fade to hit the sweet
spot. Also, the DSP may delay the rear signal a bit to make the sound
seem to be coming from a sound source in front of you (as previously
stated, the delay tries to trick your brain into thinking the rear
sounds are being reflected off of the back wall) - however, I
personally don't even like the way music sounds at concerts and such.
Some people (and please, no flames, this is my humblest opinion) prefer
a good 2 x Stereo sound surrounding them. I think music sounds best
this way (no rear delay) - it is literally an immersive experience.

[jiffy]

Bob Wrote:
>
> Some people (and please, no flames, this is my humblest opinion)
> prefer
> a good 2 x Stereo sound surrounding them. I think music sounds best
> this way (no rear delay) - it is literally an immersive experience.

I actually agree with what you said here. I think that "immersive
experience" sounds best. That is why people get
_surround_sound_. Maybe I just haven't been in a car with good
imaging, but Bob's post made me realize I too don't care for concert
imaging as much as I do for surround sound.

Now, I understand the problem is that all speakers are playing the same
thing, and this is where the phasing problem comes in. There has to be
some way to use crossovers or something so that you sound like you are
in the middle of the music, with your hears hitting that sweet spot.


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[wideglide340]

it's kind of difficult to explain but listening to car with great
imaging is quite an experience. once you hear one you'll be hooked just
like the first time you sat in a car that made it feel like your hair
was moving from the bass. you know it's good when you can close your
eyes and it sounds like the band is sitting right out beyond your front
bumper playing. when your mind is tricked and you can't actually tell
where the music is coming from then you will start to experience what
imaging truly is.


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[robert]

Do you have any tips for this besides kick panels, double back tape,
some extra tweets up high, and more time than I can seem to find? Do
you know anything about polarity swapping on the tweets? I heard that
some where - but don't want to try it until I realize the benefit. I
may try the rear fill trick though. I am trying to get my Jeep Wrangler
set up, and I can't quite get the really nice imaging/stage I want.
Thanks - Mark

wideglide340 wrote:

> it's kind of difficult to explain but listening to car with great
> imaging is quite an experience. once you hear one you'll be hooked just
> like the first time you sat in a car that made it feel like your hair
> was moving from the bass. you know it's good when you can close your
> eyes and it sounds like the band is sitting right out beyond your front
> bumper playing. when your mind is tricked and you can't actually tell
> where the music is coming from then you will start to experience what
> imaging truly is.
>
>