Home audio system???

[brazen]

Dear Abby Audiophile,

I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would appreciate
advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around for
second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know what
types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what. I did
have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an amp, cd &
manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
(understatement of the year no doubt).

I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1 outside, 1
living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a time,
though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each of the
areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you gotta
make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.

What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my system?

Thanks in advance

Gay

[Robert Morein]

"brazen" > wrote in message
...
> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>
> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would appreciate
> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around for
> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know what
> types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what. I
did
> have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an amp, cd
&
> manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
> (understatement of the year no doubt).
>
> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1 outside, 1
> living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a time,
> though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each of
the
> areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you gotta
> make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.
>
> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my system?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Gay
>
>
Dear Brazen,
At the minimum, you need what you had. Opinion on this group is
probably divided as to whether things have improved or gotten worse. The age
of the great stereo receiver has passed, and been replaced by equipment with
many more features than you want, but with reduced quality of sound.
If you want to play music loud, modern receivers are not equipped to
drive more than two pairs of speakers, and even those must be selected with
some attention to efficiency.
You can save a lot of money with eBay, searching for classics from
the 80's and early 90's. A Hafler DH-200 is a "basic power amplifier" that
must be combined with a preamp, but is essentially immune to overload
problems. See
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5758188630&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Consider also offerings from
Parasound and Rotel. Each of these choices has a different characteristic
sound.
These amplifiers, if properly ventilated, are capable of driving multiple
sets of speakers to significant volume. You'll need to add a speaker switch.
Niles makes a good one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64596&item=5757628539&rd=1

Since I've guided you to basic amplifiers, you'll need a preamp. One of the
finest preamps ever made is the Hafler DH-110:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5758076226&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
It features completely discrete transistor circuitry; no sound-destroying
op-amps within.

There are many integrated amplifiers to choose from:
http://search.ebay.com/integrated_Amplifiers_W0QQcatrefZC3QQcoactionZcomp areQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfposZ19025QQ fromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ149 70QQsadisZ200QQsbrftogZ1QQsocdpfcatZ14970QQsofocus Zbs

Just be aware that most of these feature internal heatsinks. Thus, like
receivers, they are more likely to suffer from overheating component damage
while driving multiple speakers to high levels.

[[email protected]]

brazen wrote:
> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>
> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would
appreciate
> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around
for
> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know
what
> types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what.
I did
> have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an
amp, cd &
> manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
> (understatement of the year no doubt).
>
> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1
outside, 1
> living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a
time,
> though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each
of the
> areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you
gotta
> make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.
>
> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
system?

A stereo receiver (some are still made, or use an old receiver) and a
speaker switch that can handle several sets of speakers.

Several companies make switches that will work for you and let you play
music through several sets of speakers simultaneously. For example:

http://www.russound.com/speaker_selectors.htm

> Thanks in advance
>
> Gay

[[email protected]]

If halfway decent sound is what you are after, as a previous poster
said in another thread, there is a glut of good-measuring, tolerable
sounding Japanese 70's and 80's and early 90's gear available very
cheaply. People want the vintage tube gear-as with vintage guitars, for
reasons that made a lot of sense years ago but less so now-and except
for a very few pieces old rock era SS mass-fi is nearly worthless. Much
of it works as well as it ever did, which is to say, satisfactorily for
non-critical use. In fact many such pieces are better than the dog****
mass-fi sold in Big Box stores now.

[brazen]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "brazen" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>>
>> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would appreciate
>> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around for
>> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know what
>> types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what. I
> did
>> have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an amp,
>> cd
> &
>> manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
>> (understatement of the year no doubt).
>>
>> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1 outside, 1
>> living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a time,
>> though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each of
> the
>> areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you
>> gotta
>> make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.
>>
>> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my system?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> Gay
>>
>>
> Dear Brazen,
> At the minimum, you need what you had. Opinion on this group is
> probably divided as to whether things have improved or gotten worse. The
> age
> of the great stereo receiver has passed, and been replaced by equipment
> with
> many more features than you want, but with reduced quality of sound.
> If you want to play music loud, modern receivers are not equipped to
> drive more than two pairs of speakers, and even those must be selected
> with
> some attention to efficiency.
> You can save a lot of money with eBay, searching for classics from
> the 80's and early 90's. A Hafler DH-200 is a "basic power amplifier" that
> must be combined with a preamp, but is essentially immune to overload
> problems. See
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5758188630&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> Consider also offerings from
> Parasound and Rotel. Each of these choices has a different characteristic
> sound.
> These amplifiers, if properly ventilated, are capable of driving multiple
> sets of speakers to significant volume. You'll need to add a speaker
> switch.
> Niles makes a good one:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64596&item=5757628539&rd=1
>
> Since I've guided you to basic amplifiers, you'll need a preamp. One of
> the
> finest preamps ever made is the Hafler DH-110:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5758076226&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> It features completely discrete transistor circuitry; no sound-destroying
> op-amps within.
>
> There are many integrated amplifiers to choose from:
> http://search.ebay.com/integrated_Amplifiers_W0QQcatrefZC3QQcoactionZcomp areQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfposZ19025QQ fromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ149 70QQsadisZ200QQsbrftogZ1QQsocdpfcatZ14970QQsofocus Zbs
>
> Just be aware that most of these feature internal heatsinks. Thus, like
> receivers, they are more likely to suffer from overheating component
> damage
> while driving multiple speakers to high levels.
>
Ahhh, thankyou Robert - its becoming a little clearer now - never did get
that amp+pre-amp thing!

I dont think Hafler is a brand we get here (I'm in NZ) - I certainly cant
find a trace of it here in our local online auction site, Trademe. Certainly
sounds good.

So I'll keep an eye out for a good power amp & pre amp - what kind of
output/wpc do you think would be ok for more than one set of speakers?

Gay

[brazen]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> brazen wrote:
>> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>>
>> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would
> appreciate
>> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around
> for
>> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know
> what
>> types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what.
> I did
>> have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an
> amp, cd &
>> manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
>> (understatement of the year no doubt).
>>
>> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1
> outside, 1
>> living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a
> time,
>> though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each
> of the
>> areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you
> gotta
>> make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.
>>
>> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
> system?
>
> A stereo receiver (some are still made, or use an old receiver) and a
> speaker switch that can handle several sets of speakers.
>
> Several companies make switches that will work for you and let you play
> music through several sets of speakers simultaneously. For example:
>
> http://www.russound.com/speaker_selectors.htm
>
Great thanks for that - very flash!

Gay

[brazen]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> If halfway decent sound is what you are after, as a previous poster
> said in another thread, there is a glut of good-measuring, tolerable
> sounding Japanese 70's and 80's and early 90's gear available very
> cheaply. People want the vintage tube gear-as with vintage guitars, for
> reasons that made a lot of sense years ago but less so now-and except
> for a very few pieces old rock era SS mass-fi is nearly worthless. Much
> of it works as well as it ever did, which is to say, satisfactorily for
> non-critical use. In fact many such pieces are better than the dog****
> mass-fi sold in Big Box stores now.
>

mmm, I've had 2 "all-in-one" systems since my separates and they have both
been pretty ****e. Easy, and cheap but they dont last. Hence wanting to go
back to basics...

Gay

[Robert Morein]

"brazen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "brazen" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Dear Abby Audiophile,
> >>
> >> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would appreciate
> >> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around for
> >> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know what
> >> types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with what. I
> > did
> >> have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that consisted of an amp,
> >> cd
> > &
> >> manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat
> >> (understatement of the year no doubt).
> >>
> >> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1 outside,
1
> >> living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2 areas at a time,
> >> though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume controls in each
of
> > the
> >> areas. I like to play music loud sometimes (no near neighbours - you
> >> gotta
> >> make use of it!) so it needs to have some grunt.
> >>
> >> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
system?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance
> >>
> >> Gay
> >>
> >>
> > Dear Brazen,
> > At the minimum, you need what you had. Opinion on this group is
> > probably divided as to whether things have improved or gotten worse. The
> > age
> > of the great stereo receiver has passed, and been replaced by equipment
> > with
> > many more features than you want, but with reduced quality of sound.
> > If you want to play music loud, modern receivers are not equipped
to
> > drive more than two pairs of speakers, and even those must be selected
> > with
> > some attention to efficiency.
> > You can save a lot of money with eBay, searching for classics
from
> > the 80's and early 90's. A Hafler DH-200 is a "basic power amplifier"
that
> > must be combined with a preamp, but is essentially immune to overload
> > problems. See
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39783&item=5758188630&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> > Consider also offerings from
> > Parasound and Rotel. Each of these choices has a different
characteristic
> > sound.
> > These amplifiers, if properly ventilated, are capable of driving
multiple
> > sets of speakers to significant volume. You'll need to add a speaker
> > switch.
> > Niles makes a good one:
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64596&item=5757628539&rd=1
> >
> > Since I've guided you to basic amplifiers, you'll need a preamp. One of
> > the
> > finest preamps ever made is the Hafler DH-110:
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5758076226&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> > It features completely discrete transistor circuitry; no
sound-destroying
> > op-amps within.
> >
> > There are many integrated amplifiers to choose from:
> >
http://search.ebay.com/integrated_Amplifiers_W0QQcatrefZC3QQcoactionZcomp areQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfposZ19025QQ fromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ149 70QQsadisZ200QQsbrftogZ1QQsocdpfcatZ14970QQsofocus Zbs
> >
> > Just be aware that most of these feature internal heatsinks. Thus, like
> > receivers, they are more likely to suffer from overheating component
> > damage
> > while driving multiple speakers to high levels.
> >
> Ahhh, thankyou Robert - its becoming a little clearer now - never did get
> that amp+pre-amp thing!
>
> I dont think Hafler is a brand we get here (I'm in NZ) - I certainly cant
> find a trace of it here in our local online auction site, Trademe.
Certainly
> sounds good.
>
> So I'll keep an eye out for a good power amp & pre amp - what kind of
> output/wpc do you think would be ok for more than one set of speakers?
>
> Gay
>
It's not the watts that count -- its the ability of the amp to dissipate
heat.
An analogy might be a car with a powerful engine and a small radiator that
overheats (not likely in NZ), vs. a well cooled diesel that can chug away
all day at full power. The part that is analogous to the radiator is the
heatsink(s). External heatsinks are best, though they have disappeared from
the EU due to paranoic regulations. Next best are not externally exposed,
but still large in size, and not jammed up against heat sensitive parts,
such as filter capacitors. That peculiar construction defect relates to your
remark that some stuff doesn't last; an electrolytic capacitor contains
corrosive liquid, and under hot conditions it eats itself to death.

Haflers are the ultimate bang-for-the-buck amplifiers, and they continue to
have a following among audiophiles. I recommended them to you because they
will operate into a dead short -- you can actually short the speaker
terminals without damage, and they are virtually immune to overload damage,
provided they are not installed in a confined space. This is a
characteristic of amplifiers with MOSFET (a type of transistor) output
stages. By contrast, a modern Japanese receiver tends to suffer extensive
internal damage from even a momentary short.

The Perreaux stuff is sturdy, though it may cost more than you prefer to
spend. High output audio amplifiers have been the province of the U.S., the
Australians, and you folks. European and Japanese offerings tend to be more
lightly built, since dwellings and permissible sound levels are lower. B&K
and Adcom also make amplifiers with MOSFET outputs, which means they are
sturdy.

[brazen]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
> It's not the watts that count -- its the ability of the amp to dissipate
> heat.
> An analogy might be a car with a powerful engine and a small radiator that
> overheats (not likely in NZ), vs. a well cooled diesel that can chug away
> all day at full power. The part that is analogous to the radiator is the
> heatsink(s). External heatsinks are best, though they have disappeared
> from
> the EU due to paranoic regulations. Next best are not externally exposed,
> but still large in size, and not jammed up against heat sensitive parts,
> such as filter capacitors. That peculiar construction defect relates to
> your
> remark that some stuff doesn't last; an electrolytic capacitor contains
> corrosive liquid, and under hot conditions it eats itself to death.
>
> Haflers are the ultimate bang-for-the-buck amplifiers, and they continue
> to
> have a following among audiophiles. I recommended them to you because they
> will operate into a dead short -- you can actually short the speaker
> terminals without damage, and they are virtually immune to overload
> damage,
> provided they are not installed in a confined space. This is a
> characteristic of amplifiers with MOSFET (a type of transistor) output
> stages. By contrast, a modern Japanese receiver tends to suffer extensive
> internal damage from even a momentary short.

Ahhh, becoming clear. So presumably the MOSFET output is the big selling
point so if it doesnt say it has it, it probably doesnt. I'm looking at a
2nd hand A&R Cambridge A60 - (sounds like a car!) available locally with a
McLaren equaliser (a local make I think) and it says in the A&R advert that
some kind person has put online (!) "Electronic protection in the power
output stages safeguards against any incorrect loads or short circuits. This
short term protection is backed by easily replaced output fuses should a
fault persist". It doesnt specifically say MOSFET, so I guess it hasnt got
it. In fact the way they word it, it sounds dodgy. I'm sure its not though
or it wouldnt have lasted nearly 30 years!

>
> The Perreaux stuff is sturdy, though it may cost more than you prefer to
> spend.

I had never heard of them before, and am seeing if I can find something
locally. There is an Auckland dealer who is advertising 50% off his range...
so you never know.

High output audio amplifiers have been the province of the U.S., the
> Australians, and you folks. European and Japanese offerings tend to be
> more
> lightly built, since dwellings and permissible sound levels are lower. B&K
> and Adcom also make amplifiers with MOSFET outputs, which means they are
> sturdy.
>
Thankyou for that Robert, you explain it very well. I dont feel as dense as
I did to begin with!

Gay

[Arny Krueger]

"brazen" > wrote in message

> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>
> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would appreciate
> advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around for
> second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know
> what types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes with
> what. I did have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that
> consisted of an amp, cd & manual speaker switch, but I'm sure things
> have moved on somewhat (understatement of the year no doubt).

> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1
> outside, 1 living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2
> areas at a time, though usually just one. Ideally I would like volume
> controls in each of the areas. I like to play music loud sometimes
> (no near neighbours - you gotta make use of it!) so it needs to have
> some grunt.

> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
> system?

You would be best served by 3 systems, each centerpieced by a good,
inexpensive stereo receiver and an optical disc player.

[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "brazen" > wrote in message
>
> > Dear Abby Audiophile,
> >
> > I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would
appreciate
> > advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy hunting around
for
> > second hand stuff so I dont need any brand names, but need to know
> > what types of components to buy and what power/wattage etc goes
with
> > what. I did have a pretty basic system about 15 years ago that
> > consisted of an amp, cd & manual speaker switch, but I'm sure
things
> > have moved on somewhat (understatement of the year no doubt).
>
> > I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1
> > outside, 1 living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2
> > areas at a time, though usually just one. Ideally I would like
volume
> > controls in each of the areas. I like to play music loud sometimes
> > (no near neighbours - you gotta make use of it!) so it needs to
have
> > some grunt.
>
> > What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
> > system?
>
> You would be best served by 3 systems, each centerpieced by a good,
> inexpensive stereo receiver and an optical disc player.

I see your point, but if you wanted to "have sound in 2 areas at a
time," you'd need to link the systems somehow.

I'd probably go with three separate systems myself.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "brazen" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Dear Abby Audiophile,
>>>
>>> I am wanting to set up a budget home audio system and would
>>> appreciate advice as to what components to purchase. I'm happy
>>> hunting around for second hand stuff so I dont need any brand
>>> names, but need to know what types of components to buy and what
>>> power/wattage etc goes with what. I did have a pretty basic system
>>> about 15 years ago that consisted of an amp, cd & manual speaker
>>> switch, but I'm sure things have moved on somewhat (understatement
>>> of the year no doubt).
>>
>>> I only want to play CDs, I want to run 3 pairs of speakers (1
>>> outside, 1 living area, 1 upstairs), but possibly have sound in 2
>>> areas at a time, though usually just one. Ideally I would like
>>> volume controls in each of the areas. I like to play music loud
>>> sometimes (no near neighbours - you gotta make use of it!) so it
>>> needs to have some grunt.
>>
>>> What (in pretty basic terminology please) do I need to have in my
>>> system?
>>
>> You would be best served by 3 systems, each centerpieced by a good,
>> inexpensive stereo receiver and an optical disc player.
>
> I see your point, but if you wanted to "have sound in 2 areas at a
> time," you'd need to link the systems somehow.

That seems easy enough. Criss-cross tape inputs and tape outputs.

> I'd probably go with three separate systems myself.

Given the costs and flexibility that 3 separate systems affords...

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> Given the costs and flexibility that 3 separate systems affords...
>
Yes, he could have three mediocre hifis.

A very valid choice.

[Robert Morein]

"brazen" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>
> > It's not the watts that count -- its the ability of the amp to dissipate
> > heat.
> > An analogy might be a car with a powerful engine and a small radiator
that
> > overheats (not likely in NZ), vs. a well cooled diesel that can chug
away
> > all day at full power. The part that is analogous to the radiator is the
> > heatsink(s). External heatsinks are best, though they have disappeared
> > from
> > the EU due to paranoic regulations. Next best are not externally
exposed,
> > but still large in size, and not jammed up against heat sensitive parts,
> > such as filter capacitors. That peculiar construction defect relates to
> > your
> > remark that some stuff doesn't last; an electrolytic capacitor contains
> > corrosive liquid, and under hot conditions it eats itself to death.
> >
> > Haflers are the ultimate bang-for-the-buck amplifiers, and they continue
> > to
> > have a following among audiophiles. I recommended them to you because
they
> > will operate into a dead short -- you can actually short the speaker
> > terminals without damage, and they are virtually immune to overload
> > damage,
> > provided they are not installed in a confined space. This is a
> > characteristic of amplifiers with MOSFET (a type of transistor) output
> > stages. By contrast, a modern Japanese receiver tends to suffer
extensive
> > internal damage from even a momentary short.
>
> Ahhh, becoming clear. So presumably the MOSFET output is the big selling
> point so if it doesnt say it has it, it probably doesnt.

Amplifiers using bipolar transistors are not as rugged, but they can still
be sturdy -- if they have the heatsinking. This is actually more critical
with a bipolar amp because they suffer from "thermal runaway", which means
the more current the transistor draws, the hotter it gets, which actually
causes it to draw more current, which makes it even hotter, until -- boom!

If one were totally in the dark, he could buy an amplifier by weight.