Grounding

[AntiSpammer]

any limitations on the length of wire on grounding amps?

[Tony F]

AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on grounding
amps?"

I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the ground
wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the ground wire
with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire the
thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
"limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations where
the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will correct
me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.

I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my answer!

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

[AntiSpammer]

thanks tony.

[Chris]

Its best in theory to keep the ground wire as close to the amp as
possible... preferably 2 - 3 feet max....

"Tony F" > wrote in message
...
> AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on grounding
> amps?"
>
> I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the ground
> wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the ground
> wire with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire
> the thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
> "limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations
> where the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
> theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will
> correct me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
>
> I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my
> answer!
>
> Tony
>
>
> --
> 2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
> Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500
> Amplifiers, Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped
> In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In
> Aperiodic Enclosure
>
> 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
> Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)
>
>

[AntiSpammer]

this is the problem i faced.....
no where near my amp rack is 2-4 feet.....the closest is 8 feet away.
I am running all 0ga wires.


"Chris" >
> Its best in theory to keep the ground wire as close to the amp as
> possible... preferably 2 - 3 feet max....
>

[Scott Gardner]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 13:59:42 -0000, "Chris" > wrote:

>Its best in theory to keep the ground wire as close to the amp as
>possible... preferably 2 - 3 feet max....
>


I agree, except that I'll use longer ground wires if it's necessary to
make sure everything is grounded to the same point. For noise
rejection, I think keeping all of the ground potentials identical is
more important than having the shortest possible ground wire. Now, if
you can do both (use a star-grounding method AND short ground leads),
then that's obviously the best.


--
Scott Gardner

"What happens on cruise, stays on cruise." (Navy saying)

[Scott Gardner]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 22:03:29 +0800, "AntiSpammer" >
wrote:

>this is the problem i faced.....
>no where near my amp rack is 2-4 feet.....the closest is 8 feet away.
>I am running all 0ga wires.

Why not run a heavy-gauge ground wire from the battery to a
distribution block near your amp rack? That way, you'll keep the
ground leads from the individual components short, and since they'll
all be grounded to the same point (the distribution block), you'll
eliminate possible ground loops. To make sure that you've eliminated
all the possible ground loops, ground your head unit and any signal
processors to the same distribution block as well.


--
Scott Gardner

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but 'That's funny..." (Isaac Asimov)

[AntiSpammer]

gee...thanks scott, guess that will do.
will do as what you said.

[MZ]

8ft is fine. There's no limitation really. Tony's answer is pretty
concise.

"AntiSpammer" > wrote in message
...
> this is the problem i faced.....
> no where near my amp rack is 2-4 feet.....the closest is 8 feet away.
> I am running all 0ga wires.
>
>
> "Chris" >
>> Its best in theory to keep the ground wire as close to the amp as
>> possible... preferably 2 - 3 feet max....
>>
>

[MOSFET]

"Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
...
>
> I agree, except that I'll use longer ground wires if it's necessary to
> make sure everything is grounded to the same point. For noise
> rejection, I think keeping all of the ground potentials identical is
> more important than having the shortest possible ground wire. Now, if
> you can do both (use a star-grounding method AND short ground leads),
> then that's obviously the best.

I'll just chime in to agree, here. I used to have terrible alternator whine
problems (ground loops) until I started grounding EVERYTHING to the same
point (HU, processors, amps, etc.). Now I always ground my systems this
way, whether they exhibit a problem or not and I have not had any problems
since.

MOSFET

[MZ]

> I'll just chime in to agree, here. I used to have terrible alternator
> whine
> problems (ground loops) until I started grounding EVERYTHING to the same
> point (HU, processors, amps, etc.). Now I always ground my systems this
> way, whether they exhibit a problem or not and I have not had any problems
> since.

Yeah, that usually helps. I'm not going to even pretend that there's a
steadfast rule to grounding. It's an art form unto itself. Especially
outside of audio, when you're dealing with tiny signals on the order of
microvolts and you have to compete with 60Hz coming from the fluorescent
lights, or god knows where else. When I encounter ground problems, I wonder
whether I'd be better off trying to eliminate possible ground loops or to
bring in a priest to exorcise the demons...

[Scott Gardner]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:45:45 -0500, "MZ"
> wrote:

>> I'll just chime in to agree, here. I used to have terrible alternator
>> whine
>> problems (ground loops) until I started grounding EVERYTHING to the same
>> point (HU, processors, amps, etc.). Now I always ground my systems this
>> way, whether they exhibit a problem or not and I have not had any problems
>> since.
>
>Yeah, that usually helps. I'm not going to even pretend that there's a
>steadfast rule to grounding. It's an art form unto itself. Especially
>outside of audio, when you're dealing with tiny signals on the order of
>microvolts and you have to compete with 60Hz coming from the fluorescent
>lights, or god knows where else. When I encounter ground problems, I wonder
>whether I'd be better off trying to eliminate possible ground loops or to
>bring in a priest to exorcise the demons...
>

That's how I felt about the alternator whine in my VW Jetta. Nothing
I did got rid of it until I finally grounded absolutely everything in
the stereo system to the same point. From then on, I've done the same
thing with every install, and I've never had alternator whine,
ignition noise, or spurious popping/clicking from the car's electrical
system again.

I know it was probably overkill for a few of the installs, but the
little extra time and expense on the front-side was worth it if it
meant I didn't have to chase down a ground loop later.

Scott Gardner


--
Scott Gardner

"I will not tiptoe softly through life only to arrive safely at death."

[Antispammer]

alright, thanks everybody!!!

[[email protected]]

AntiSpammer wrote:
> any limitations on the length of wire on grounding amps?

No.

[[email protected]]

Tony F wrote:
> AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on
grounding
> amps?"
>
> I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the
ground
> wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the
ground wire
> with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire
the
> thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
> "limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations
where
> the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
> theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will
correct
> me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
>
> I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my
answer!
>
> Tony
>
>

The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
matter
because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.

[Tony F]

In my Maxima, the HU is grounded behind the dash, I have one amp under each
front seat that's separately gounded, and another amp with an EQ in the
trunk that are both grounded in the trunk. ZERO noise.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

[Scott Gardner]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 00:38:30 -0800, "Tony F"
> wrote:

>In my Maxima, the HU is grounded behind the dash, I have one amp under each
>front seat that's separately gounded, and another amp with an EQ in the
>trunk that are both grounded in the trunk. ZERO noise.
>
>Tony

Yep, sometimes separate grounding points work, sometimes they don't.
A lot of it has to do with how the chassis of the car is constructed.
I just went to a star grounding scheme because it's foolproof.


--
Scott Gardner

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but 'That's funny..." (Isaac Asimov)

[SF]

Actually the ground wire is not the path back to the battery. but from the
battery. Power travels Negative to Positive.

According to MECP, the ground wire should be less than 12 inches. However,
MECP also says that the amps should all be grounded at the same point, which
may require a longer ground.

Also make sure the positive and the ground wire is the same gage.



--
WDW is a Way of Life
"Chris" > wrote in message
...
> Its best in theory to keep the ground wire as close to the amp as
> possible... preferably 2 - 3 feet max....
>
> "Tony F" > wrote in message
> ...
> > AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on grounding
> > amps?"
> >
> > I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the ground
> > wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the ground
> > wire with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire
> > the thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
> > "limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations
> > where the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
> > theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will
> > correct me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
> >
> > I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my
> > answer!
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > --
> > 2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
> > Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500
> > Amplifiers, Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360
Tri-Amped
> > In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In
> > Aperiodic Enclosure
> >
> > 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
> > Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)
> >
> >
>
>

[MZ]

> Actually the ground wire is not the path back to the battery. but from the
> battery. Power travels Negative to Positive.

While it's true that electrons flow from neg to pos, by convention power
(and current) flows from pos to neg.

>
> According to MECP, the ground wire should be less than 12 inches. However,
> MECP also says that the amps should all be grounded at the same point,
> which
> may require a longer ground.
>
> Also make sure the positive and the ground wire is the same gage.

Not always needed, actually. Sometimes people use larger than necessary
wire from the pos of the battery because of extra long runs. If your ground
is only a couple feet, you can use it as long as its current carrying
capacity exceeds the current draw.

[MZ]

> The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
> matter
> because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.

Kirchoff's law says that you're wrong.

(PS - guys, this idiot is clearly a joker. he just can't be for real...)

[[email protected]]

MZ wrote:
> > The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
> > matter
> > because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.
>
> Kirchoff's law says that you're wrong.
>
> (PS - guys, this idiot is clearly a joker. he just can't be for
real...)

You can ask better question if a hugh capacitor in automobile is a
real...
Anyways, the ground has no limitation it's size and length. I'm guy
who
laugh at last...

[MZ]

> You can ask better question if a hugh capacitor in automobile is a
> real...
> Anyways, the ground has no limitation it's size and length. I'm guy
> who
> laugh at last...

You sure are...

[Barry & Nikki]

Hey MM; why not unscrew that ground wire on your amp from its ground and
stick it in your mouth while your stereo/amp are on and see if it really
carries a current??? Let us know what you find out, we really want to here
your answer to this one.



> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Tony F wrote:
> > AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on
> grounding
> > amps?"
> >
> > I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the
> ground
> > wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the
> ground wire
> > with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire
> the
> > thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
> > "limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations
> where
> > the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
> > theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will
> correct
> > me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
> >
> > I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my
> answer!
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>
> The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
> matter
> because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.
>

[MOSFET]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
I'm guy
> who
> laugh at last...
>
You're an idiot.

[FasDeth]

>>I'm sure MZ will correct
>> me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
>>
>> I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% >>positive about my
>>answer!
>>
>> Tony

>The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground >wire does not
>matter
>because ground wire does not carry a current. So you >are wrong.

I've been waiting for this.. :)

[FasDeth]

> You can ask better question if a hugh capacitor in automobile is a
> real...
> Anyways, the ground has no limitation it's size and length. I'm guy
> who
> laugh at last...
>

Who is this Hugh fellow he keeps blabing about?
-FD

[Barry & Nikki]

Hugh Idiot; its his father where he received all his invaluable knowledge
from.



"FasDeth" > wrote in message
news:ifaXd.5089$Ru.2265@okepread06...
>
> > You can ask better question if a hugh capacitor in automobile is a
> > real...
> > Anyways, the ground has no limitation it's size and length. I'm guy
> > who
> > laugh at last...
> >
>
> Who is this Hugh fellow he keeps blabing about?
> -FD
>
>

[Thor Lancelot Simon]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
>matter
>because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.

"America is the law of the land. About 99% of all American biker in
street or mountain path do not have license plate or headlight or
helmet. US cops can arrest them and throw into jail as many as
possible since there are plenty of jail cell (which is good business
for prison industry)." -Red Cloud

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

[Thor Lancelot Simon]

In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> You can ask better question if a hugh capacitor in automobile is a
>real...
> Anyways, the ground has no limitation it's size and length. I'm guy
>who
>laugh at last...

"YOu can also find ton of illegal Chink working in everywhere you see.
Did you know that there are a lots of chinks in afhganistan and Israel?
Jews got afraid that Chink might raped Jewish women. Afhganstianc rebels
killed 40 chink workers. I just don't have any compassion for chinks.
They are enough Chinks around the world. They are so ****ing sneaky."

-Red Cloud
--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

[Chad Wahls]

"Barry & Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> Hey MM; why not unscrew that ground wire on your amp from its ground and
> stick it in your mouth while your stereo/amp are on and see if it really
> carries a current??? Let us know what you find out, we really want to here
> your answer to this one.
>
>

It won't do a damn thing unless he is grabbing onto the body work, even then
his cheapo amp probably does not have ground isolation on the RCA's and he
won't feel a thing till he melts the signal cables.

Chad

>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> Tony F wrote:
>> > AntiSpammer wrote: "any limitations on the length of wire on
>> grounding
>> > amps?"
>> >
>> > I don't know if this answers your question, but remember that the
>> ground
>> > wire is the return path to the battery. So you should treat the
>> ground wire
>> > with the same rules as the power wire. The longer the ground wire
>> the
>> > thicker it would need to be. So while I don't believe there's any
>> > "limitation" to length (although I can't think of too many situations
>> where
>> > the ground wire would be longer than the power wire), you would
>> > theoretically have to adjust the thickness accordingly. I'm MZ will
>> correct
>> > me if I'm wrong and/or add his own comments.
>> >
>> > I'll add a disclaimer since I'm obviously not 100% positive about my
>> answer!
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>>
>> The gound wire has no limitation. The size of ground wire does not
>> matter
>> because ground wire does not carry a current. So you are wrong.
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

MOSFET wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> I'm guy
> > who
> > laugh at last...
> >
> You're an idiot.

You have to be kidding. You don't need to say I'm an idiot.
If I were idiot, I would buy Jensen 3610 over $129 according
to your typical car saleman figure. No I didn't. I bought
and I bargained to $50. Yes $50 for 200W CD dash units with
remote control brand new in the box. If I were idiot, I would
buy Crunch 400W amp at $119. NO I bought at $29.