Speaker wire questions?

[Steve]

When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers. You
can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to run
wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from your
amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.

Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
wiring?

Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
directly to the speakers/crossover?

Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for their
car installation? Any noticeable improvement?

Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a McIntosh
2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.

Thanks for sharing your experience(s).

Regards,
Steve

[Scott Gardner]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
wrote:

>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers. You
>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to run
>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from your
>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
>
>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
>wiring?
>
>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
>directly to the speakers/crossover?
>
>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for their
>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
>
>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a McIntosh
>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
>
>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>


If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.

However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.

There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.

Scott Gardner

[MOSFET]

"Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
> brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
> feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
> probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
> system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
>
> However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
> factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
>
> There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
> esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
> are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
> of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
> low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
>
> Scott Gardner
>
I totally agree with Scott on this one. Unless you're planning to run
obscene levels of power to your front speakers, factory wiring is just fine.
I use the factory wiring in my car and I have pretty good gear (MB Quart
speaks, Soundstream amp, Phoenix Gold Zeropoint interconnects, Alpine head)
and I think it sounds great. Just make sure the connections from the wires
that run to your amps to the factory wiring is solid. Of course, for your
sub, you would (as I do) want to run heavier wire.

I once (about 10 years ago) believed that interconects and speaker cables
were very, very important. I actually had Cardas interconnects in my car.
I have since wised up. I realize now that the differences I "thought" I
heard were all in my head.

That being said, there actually ARE certain advantages to speaker cable and
interconnects designed for the automotive environment. First, these types
of wires are usually made to be twisted and bent so as to more easily snake
around tight corners (I had a HELL of a time getting my Cardas Cross cables
everywhere they needed to go). They are also designed to be very tough and
resistant to corrosion. With interconnects, those designed for the car
audio environment frequently incorporate noise reduction techniques
(shielding to reject RF interfernce, twisted pair designs to help eliminate
induced nosie), of course, if you do not have a noise problem, these
enhancements do nothing to help the sound.

So, although it is tempting to try and incorporate home audio cable (Kimber,
etc.) into the car, there are actually good reasons why you should not, and
frankly, IMHO, I don't think there are any potential benefits at all.

MOSFET

[Tony F]

I personally like to run all my own speaker wire. Although I realize I
can't hear the difference, the perfectionist inside me "knows" that the
install was done correctly. In other words, down the road (pun intended) I
know there won't be any pinched or shorted wires, or any other problems I
didn't create myself. Somewhere in my head, my stereo now "sounds" better
because I did it all myself.

Tony

--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

[Sean Scott]

"Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
> wrote:
>
>>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
>>You
>>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to
>>run
>>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from your
>>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
>>
>>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
>>wiring?
>>
>>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
>>directly to the speakers/crossover?
>>
>>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for their
>>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
>>
>>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
>>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a McIntosh
>>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
>>
>>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
>>
>>Regards,
>>Steve
>>
>
>
> If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
> brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
> feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
> probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
> system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
>
> However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
> factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
>
> There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
> esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
> are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
> of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
> low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
>
> Scott Gardner
>
>

A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure but he
has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my engine.

[matt]

I'm going to chime in towards running your own wires.

In my older truck I had to run wires into the doors because Toyota didnt
provide any. The drivers sounded great as far as I was concerned... FF 5
years and I have purchased a new truck. This time there are factory
provisions in the doors so I use the wires. THE SAME drivers now sound like
hell! No headroom whatsoever. No where near the amount of mid/low end that
I had in the first truck. The factory wires look like 20ga-18ga or something
so I put in regular 14ga speaker wire and the sound that I had in the old
truck returned.


--
Matt
M and M Electronics
6661 Stanford Ranch Road
Suite F, PMB 105
Rocklin, Ca 95677
916-275-5871
"Steve" > wrote in message
. ..
> When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
> You
> can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to
> run
> wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from your
> amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
>
> Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
> wiring?
>
> Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
> directly to the speakers/crossover?
>
> Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for their
> car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
>
> Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
> interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a McIntosh
> 2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
>

[John Smith]

Larger gauge= greater diameter

smaller gauge=thinner wire

You want larger gauge for more power or distance...

www.bcae1.com



"Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
>>>You
>>>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to
>>>run
>>>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from
>>>your
>>>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
>>>
>>>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
>>>wiring?
>>>
>>>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
>>>directly to the speakers/crossover?
>>>
>>>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for their
>>>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
>>>
>>>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
>>>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a
>>>McIntosh
>>>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
>>>
>>>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Steve
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
>> brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
>> feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
>> probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
>> system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
>>
>> However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
>> factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
>>
>> There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
>> esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
>> are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
>> of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
>> low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
>>
>> Scott Gardner
>>
>>
>
> A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
> rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure but
> he has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my
> engine.
>

[MOSFET]

"Tony F" > wrote in message
...
> I personally like to run all my own speaker wire. Although I realize I
> can't hear the difference, the perfectionist inside me "knows" that the
> install was done correctly. In other words, down the road (pun intended)
I
> know there won't be any pinched or shorted wires, or any other problems I
> didn't create myself. Somewhere in my head, my stereo now "sounds" better
> because I did it all myself.
>
> Tony

Actually you raise a good point. You never know with factory wiring if
there are not a million splices that you cannot see or frayed or damaged
sections of wiring. I suppose putting in all new wiring assures it is all
first-rate.

MOSFET

[MZ]

> A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
> rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure but
> he has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my
> engine.

It's common advice. Some manufacturers even suggest it in their manuals.
But the reason they do so is because there's no telling what may be wrong
with the wires in place. But "healthy" stock wiring is obviously fine.
It's thick enough to handle the amount of current that will be delivered to
the speakers.

[MZ]

> I'm going to chime in towards running your own wires.
>
> In my older truck I had to run wires into the doors because Toyota didnt
> provide any. The drivers sounded great as far as I was concerned... FF 5
> years and I have purchased a new truck. This time there are factory
> provisions in the doors so I use the wires. THE SAME drivers now sound
> like hell! No headroom whatsoever. No where near the amount of mid/low
> end that I had in the first truck. The factory wires look like 20ga-18ga
> or something so I put in regular 14ga speaker wire and the sound that I
> had in the old truck returned.

Wires can't affect headroom, unless they heat up like a resistor. That
could only be the case if they're not made out of copper. So yeah, if
you've got carbon wires running to your speakers, then maybe it would be
so...

[matt]

All I know for sure is that when I used the factory wires the speakers
sounded like crap. Now that I've gone off and used copper speaker wire they
sound great again.

>
> Wires can't affect headroom, unless they heat up like a resistor. That
> could only be the case if they're not made out of copper. So yeah, if
> you've got carbon wires running to your speakers, then maybe it would be
> so...
>

[SF]

Generally, I use the factory wiring. On most older cars, I choose to rerun
wires as the wiring can be in bad shape.

If you want a good clean system, it is always best to use nothing that
already exists. Rerun all your wires. It might be a pain through the doors,
but ti is well worth it in the end.

--
WDW is a Way of Life
"Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
> >>You
> >>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to
> >>run
> >>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from
your
> >>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
> >>
> >>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
> >>wiring?
> >>
> >>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
> >>directly to the speakers/crossover?
> >>
> >>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for
their
> >>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
> >>
> >>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
> >>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a
McIntosh
> >>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
> >>
> >>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Steve
> >>
> >
> >
> > If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
> > brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
> > feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
> > probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
> > system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
> >
> > However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
> > factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
> >
> > There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
> > esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
> > are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
> > of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
> > low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
> >
> > Scott Gardner
> >
> >
>
> A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
> rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure but
he
> has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my
engine.
>
>

[Sean Scott]

"John Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Larger gauge= greater diameter
>
> smaller gauge=thinner wire
>

You sure about this, it was my understanding that 4 gauge was larger
diameter than 8 guage.

> You want larger gauge for more power or distance...
>
> www.bcae1.com
>
>
>
> "Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
>>>>You
>>>>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing to
>>>>run
>>>>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from
>>>>your
>>>>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
>>>>
>>>>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the factory
>>>>wiring?
>>>>
>>>>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
>>>>directly to the speakers/crossover?
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for
>>>>their
>>>>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
>>>>
>>>>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
>>>>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a
>>>>McIntosh
>>>>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
>>> brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
>>> feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
>>> probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
>>> system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
>>>
>>> However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
>>> factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
>>>
>>> There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
>>> esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
>>> are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
>>> of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
>>> low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
>>>
>>> Scott Gardner
>>>
>>>
>>
>> A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
>> rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure but
>> he has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my
>> engine.
>>
>
>

[Charles B. Summers]

You are correct Sean...

10 is smaller than 8, 8 is smaller than 6 and so forth.


"Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote in message
...
>
> "John Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Larger gauge= greater diameter
> >
> > smaller gauge=thinner wire
> >
>
> You sure about this, it was my understanding that 4 gauge was larger
> diameter than 8 guage.
>
> > You want larger gauge for more power or distance...
> >
> > www.bcae1.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sean Scott" <Its@secret> wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Scott Gardner" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 04:26:25 GMT, "Steve" >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>When you change a factory radio toan aftermarket unit with amplifiers.
> >>>>You
> >>>>can use the factory wiring behind the head unit to alleviate needing
to
> >>>>run
> >>>>wires into the doors. When you do this you run the speaker wire from
> >>>>your
> >>>>amp to the wire behinfd the head unit.
> >>>>
> >>>>Doesn't this hurt the sound quality of the install by using the
factory
> >>>>wiring?
> >>>>
> >>>>Would I be better off to run the speaker wire through the door channel
> >>>>directly to the speakers/crossover?
> >>>>
> >>>>Has anyone used a good speaker wire like Kimber or StraightWire for
> >>>>their
> >>>>car installation? Any noticeable improvement?
> >>>>
> >>>>Btw, I have decent stuff to notice changes that I make (like different
> >>>>interconnects etc.). System is a preamp only Eclipse headunit, a
> >>>>McIntosh
> >>>>2-channel amp and a pair of Diamond hex components in the door.
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks for sharing your experience(s).
> >>>>
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>>Steve
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you can really, truly, hear the difference between two different
> >>> brands of interconnects, in a controlled scientific setting, then I
> >>> feel sorry for you. Your ears are so finely attuned that you're
> >>> probably never going to be happy with the fidelity of ANY playback
> >>> system you'll ever own, in your home or in your car.
> >>>
> >>> However, for us mortals, there's nothing wrong with re-using the
> >>> factory wiring from the head unit harness to the door speakers.
> >>>
> >>> There's nothing magical about sound transmission that requires
> >>> esoteric connectors or cables. The voltages and frequencies involved
> >>> are both relatively low. (20,000 Hz may be "high frequency" in terms
> >>> of human hearing, but from an engineering standpoint, it's extremely
> >>> low, and does not pose ANY special challenges for a wire.
> >>>
> >>> Scott Gardner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> A friend of mine was telling me if I ever amplified my door speakers to
> >> rerun the wire with a smaller gauge wire for w/e reason I'm not sure
but
> >> he has never been wrong yet about hooking up my stereos or repairing my
> >> engine.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>