Tell me about Magnuson Moss warranty act

[MZ]

So my car has been in the shop for a little over two months with a "mystery"
electrical problem. I know what caused the problem - when I dropped the car
off for routine maintenance, they let the battery die and then boost charged
it. I know they provided more than 16 volts because I got an error code
that said just that. Subsequently, the fuel guage sensor also popped when
they did this, but that was an easy fix.

They've come back to me now saying that the warranty will not cover the
repair because there's an aftermarket audio system installed. It's my
understanding that they have to prove that this was the cause of the
electrical problems (which they obviously wouldn't be able to do) in order
to void the warranty. Does anyone know more about this? Any personal
experiences? How did you go about resolving the problem?

[Tony F]

As far as I know, you are correct. They have to prove that your aftermarket
stereo caused the failure, thus voiding the warranty. Problem is, that's
fine and dandy, but you'd be fighting them forever.

You could always get online and print out a copy of the act and bring it to
them.

This and your knowledge of car audio & electronics might pay off.

You could also call the car's manufacturer and complain to them.
Dealerships don't like that!

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> So my car has been in the shop for a little over two months with a
> "mystery" electrical problem. I know what caused the problem - when I
> dropped the car off for routine maintenance, they let the battery die and
> then boost charged it. I know they provided more than 16 volts because I
> got an error code that said just that. Subsequently, the fuel guage
> sensor also popped when they did this, but that was an easy fix.
>
> They've come back to me now saying that the warranty will not cover the
> repair because there's an aftermarket audio system installed. It's my
> understanding that they have to prove that this was the cause of the
> electrical problems (which they obviously wouldn't be able to do) in order
> to void the warranty. Does anyone know more about this? Any personal
> experiences? How did you go about resolving the problem?
>

[Scott Gardner]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:03:26 -0500, "MZ"
> wrote:

>So my car has been in the shop for a little over two months with a "mystery"
>electrical problem. I know what caused the problem - when I dropped the car
>off for routine maintenance, they let the battery die and then boost charged
>it. I know they provided more than 16 volts because I got an error code
>that said just that. Subsequently, the fuel guage sensor also popped when
>they did this, but that was an easy fix.
>
>They've come back to me now saying that the warranty will not cover the
>repair because there's an aftermarket audio system installed. It's my
>understanding that they have to prove that this was the cause of the
>electrical problems (which they obviously wouldn't be able to do) in order
>to void the warranty. Does anyone know more about this? Any personal
>experiences? How did you go about resolving the problem?
>

First, what state are you in? Have you checked out the lemon laws for
the state yet (if there are any). I'm asking because in Virginia, if
a new car spends 30 non-consecutive days in the shop in the first
eighteen months of ownership, you can force them to buy the car back
under the lemon law.

Second, what are the details on your aftermarket audio system? Is it
just a "deck-and-four", or do you have 1/0-gauge wire snaking all over
the place and capacitor banks that look like something out of Dr.
Frankenstein's lab? I'm asking because under the Magnuson-Moss Act,
they have to prove that your stereo is causing the electrical problem,
but if you have a "big" stereo, an arbitration board that doesn't know
much about electronics might find in the dealership's favour anyway.

I think Tony had some good advice - take a copy of the MM act in to
show them you've been researching it, and by all means, look into your
state's "Lemon Laws", if there are any. If your car has been in the
shop for two months, even mentioning "Lemon Law" should make the sweat
break out on their upper lip.

Scott Gardner

[MZ]

> First, what state are you in? Have you checked out the lemon laws for
> the state yet (if there are any). I'm asking because in Virginia, if
> a new car spends 30 non-consecutive days in the shop in the first
> eighteen months of ownership, you can force them to buy the car back
> under the lemon law.

Massachusetts. I'll look into the lemon law.

> Second, what are the details on your aftermarket audio system? Is it
> just a "deck-and-four", or do you have 1/0-gauge wire snaking all over
> the place and capacitor banks that look like something out of Dr.
> Frankenstein's lab? I'm asking because under the Magnuson-Moss Act,
> they have to prove that your stereo is causing the electrical problem,
> but if you have a "big" stereo, an arbitration board that doesn't know
> much about electronics might find in the dealership's favour anyway.

It's connected to the car's electrical system via a single 4 ga. cable.
There isn't even a radio. Those wires are unused - the harness is still on
it so that it cannot be grounded out. One of the "electronics experts" that
this shop brought it to after they realized they lacked the know-how to fix
it was actually a car audio/electronics shop, and they called the work
impeccable and offered me a job. :)

> I think Tony had some good advice - take a copy of the MM act in to
> show them you've been researching it, and by all means, look into your
> state's "Lemon Laws", if there are any. If your car has been in the
> shop for two months, even mentioning "Lemon Law" should make the sweat
> break out on their upper lip.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do just that.

[Scott Gardner]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:10:10 -0500, "MZ"
> wrote:

>> First, what state are you in? Have you checked out the lemon laws for
>> the state yet (if there are any). I'm asking because in Virginia, if
>> a new car spends 30 non-consecutive days in the shop in the first
>> eighteen months of ownership, you can force them to buy the car back
>> under the lemon law.
>
>Massachusetts. I'll look into the lemon law.
>
>> Second, what are the details on your aftermarket audio system? Is it
>> just a "deck-and-four", or do you have 1/0-gauge wire snaking all over
>> the place and capacitor banks that look like something out of Dr.
>> Frankenstein's lab? I'm asking because under the Magnuson-Moss Act,
>> they have to prove that your stereo is causing the electrical problem,
>> but if you have a "big" stereo, an arbitration board that doesn't know
>> much about electronics might find in the dealership's favour anyway.
>
>It's connected to the car's electrical system via a single 4 ga. cable.
>There isn't even a radio. Those wires are unused - the harness is still on
>it so that it cannot be grounded out. One of the "electronics experts" that
>this shop brought it to after they realized they lacked the know-how to fix
>it was actually a car audio/electronics shop, and they called the work
>impeccable and offered me a job. :)
>
>> I think Tony had some good advice - take a copy of the MM act in to
>> show them you've been researching it, and by all means, look into your
>> state's "Lemon Laws", if there are any. If your car has been in the
>> shop for two months, even mentioning "Lemon Law" should make the sweat
>> break out on their upper lip.
>
>Thanks for the advice. I'll do just that.
>

I found a copy of the MA Lemon Law - you should be able to Google it
with no problem. I haven't read the whole thing in detail yet, but it
looks like if your car is off the road for more than 10 consecutive
business days (or 21 consecutive business days if the dealership is
waiting on parts), they have to take the car back and give you a full
refund, minus fifteen cents for each mile that you've driven the car.

Of course, that assumes that you bought the car new, and it's still
under warranty. If it's used and under warranty, different standards
may apply.

Scott Gardner

[MOSFET]

Mark,

As someone I consider an "elder" of this newgroup, I have to tell you I am
disapointed that you you would post a non car-stereo related question on
this newsgroup. As we often chide those who post spam and other non-related
issues, I think it is imperative that we hold ourselves up to those same
standards. I believe you should think more carefully before you post in the
future. Just kidding! I really had you going, didn't I?

MOSFET

[MZ]

> Mark,
>
> As someone I consider an "elder" of this newgroup, I have to tell you I am
> disapointed that you you would post a non car-stereo related question on
> this newsgroup. As we often chide those who post spam and other
> non-related
> issues, I think it is imperative that we hold ourselves up to those same
> standards. I believe you should think more carefully before you post in
> the
> future. Just kidding! I really had you going, didn't I?

Yeah, I was all ready to tell you what to stick in your pipe and smoke (and
then where to stick the pipe). :)

Actually though, I think this is a big issue for car audio enthusiasts,
because it appears to me that these asshole dealerships frequently try to
pull this move. I've been having to battle these ****tards for over two
months - each time, they keep trying to tell me that the audio system was
the problem (even though it's been installed for a year before the problems
appeared). I ask them how it's possible, and they never reply. They of
course assume that because they're grease monkeys and I'm not, they must
know more about car electronics than I do. Funny, because I'm not the
imbecile that boost charged the thing without disconnecting the positive
cable first. Damn those OBDII systems and their pesky error codes which
point the finger at the hamfisted repair guy when he overcharges the
battery!

Another part that I found funny about this whole ordeal is how they managed
to drain the battery in the first place. It's happened before, actually, at
another shop I took it for something else. They see an LCD touchscreen in
the dash, and they must think "ooooh shiny!" so they press the power button.
This turns the computer on in the trunk. The computer is not turned off by
the same button. Instead, there's a button on the screen that says "Off"
that must be pressed, and then the computer shuts off. Well, they didn't
turn it off, hence the battery died. I didn't idiot-proof the system, which
I now have to do. What on earth possesses these guys to turn the LCD on in
the first place??

[MOSFET]

What on earth possesses these guys to turn the LCD on in
> the first place??
>
Well, you already stated the reason: it's shiny, it's cool, it's begging to
be screwed with. Like you said, I hook all my accesseries up to something
on the ignition circuit (the cigarette lighter power is a good source) for
EXACTLY this reason. I know my wife likes to watch DVD's in the car on her
lunch break so I made sure the power to the DVD player was on such a
circuit. I love my wife dearly (today's our anniversery, 8 years!), but I
would NEVER trust her to turn that stuff off when she's done.

MOSFET

[Tony F]

MZ wrote: "I know what caused the problem - when I dropped the car off for
routine maintenance, they let the battery die and then boost charged it."

Boost charged? Is that another term for jump started? Or did they charge
the battery at 16 volts?

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

[MZ]

> MZ wrote: "I know what caused the problem - when I dropped the car off for
> routine maintenance, they let the battery die and then boost charged it."
>
> Boost charged? Is that another term for jump started? Or did they charge
> the battery at 16 volts?

They used a charger that evidently went over 16v. I can get my battery
charger to do that when I switch from trickle charge to boost charge. I
never do it. But if I did, I'd have the brains to unhook the pos. wire
first.

[Tony F]

"They used a charger that evidently went over 16v. I can get my battery
charger to do that when I switch from trickle charge to boost charge. I
never do it. But if I did, I'd have the brains to unhook the pos. wire
first."

Gotcha.

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP (Just gettin' started)

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
>> MZ wrote: "I know what caused the problem - when I dropped the car off
>> for routine maintenance, they let the battery die and then boost charged
>> it."
>>
>> Boost charged? Is that another term for jump started? Or did they
>> charge the battery at 16 volts?
>
> They used a charger that evidently went over 16v. I can get my battery
> charger to do that when I switch from trickle charge to boost charge. I
> never do it. But if I did, I'd have the brains to unhook the pos. wire
> first.
>

[Chad Wahls]

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
What on earth possesses these guys to turn the LCD on in
> the first place??
>

Remember the Ren & Stimpy episode where Stimpy had to "guard" the Shiny Red
Button........

Best of luck to you Mark.

Chad

[I.Care]

In article >, says...
>
> "MZ" > wrote in message
> ...
> What on earth possesses these guys to turn the LCD on in
> > the first place??
> >
>
> Remember the Ren & Stimpy episode where Stimpy had to "guard" the Shiny Red
> Button........
>
> Best of luck to you Mark.
>
> Chad
>
>
>
Something to play with.

I was staying at a hotel in Dallas, for the 1995 IASCA World Finals. The
hotel would not allow me to park my own car. The guy asked me what was
going on and I mistakenly told him I was entered in the car stereo
contest at the convention center so please don't touch the stereo
because I had spent hours adjusting it. My room overlooked the street
so I watched my car; soon as he got in he hit every button on the
controller for my Pioneer ODR system. Glad I removed the faceplate and
deactivated the system with my alarm remote.
--
I.Care
Address fake
until the SPAM goes away

[MZ]

Well, I don't think it's going to do me any good after all. The electronics
"experts" (a local car audio shop) that this dealership just took my car to
is blaming the audio system for the problem. Their word would, of course,
take precedence over mine because they are, after all, "professionals."

Here are some assertions made by the "professional" I spoke to over the
phone:

1. Professional: "The audio system was showing a 9A draw even when the car
was off."
Me: "But wasn't the 4ga. wire that was supplying it disconnected?"
Professional: "Yeah, but it can get its power from other sources."

You see, the way I wired it, only the 4ga wire supplied power to the
entire audio system. No remote wires. No ignition wires. The car PC was
turned on by a simple push button switch - the car PC was powered by the
4ga. wire. The car PC then turned on the amplifiers through their remote
inputs via the USB output and a couple relays.

2. Me: "But isn't it all supplied by that single 4ga. wire?"
Professional: "There were two 4 ga. wires hooked up to it. And no, there
are other sources powering the equipment."

Two lies in a row. No, there weren't two 4ga. wires. And no, there were no
other sources. Next.

3. Professional: "The amplifier was generating feedback in the electrical
system. I know this because I disconnected the positive wire to the
amplifier and left the ground wire attached and it was still delivering
large amounts of current through the ground."
Me: "But don't you need the positive wire to 'close the loop'?"
Professional: "Nah."

He rewrote Kirchoff's Law in one fell swoop. Way to go.

4. Professional: "Today's Cadillacs aren't designed to handle big 4 ga.
wires. They create so much RF that it's like having a broadcast antenna in
your car. It damages the sensitive electronics."

Interestingly, the sensor that went bad was nowhere near the "broadcast
antenna" that I call a wire. In fact, nothing was - oh, except for the
stock 4ga. wire running from the alternator.

5. Professional: "Every time I would unhook a device from the distribution
block, the current draw would decrease. It's my opinion that all of your
amps and processors went bad at the same time and caused the car to
malfunction."

Zebras...horses...

6. Professional: "When the car was dropped off to me, the car PC was on."

Not only was the power plug pulled from the car PC, but the 4ga. cable
supplying it was not attached.

7. Professional: "The car PC was drawing most of that 9A draw, even when
off."

There is a 3A fuse on the wire feeding the car PC.

8. Me: "What do you think is more likely? That all of my audio equipment
blew at the same time the moment I turned on the car in the dealer's parking
lot, and that this caused the car's electronics problems to occur? Or that
when they recharged the battery they used a boost charge which delivered
>16v to the electrical system because they failed to unhook the positive
battery cable first (which registered on the car's error codes)?"
Professional: "I think it was the audio system."
Me: "Thank you for your time."

[Chad Wahls]

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I don't think it's going to do me any good after all. The
> electronics
> "experts" (a local car audio shop) that this dealership just took my car
> to
> is blaming the audio system for the problem. Their word would, of course,
> take precedence over mine because they are, after all, "professionals."
>
> Here are some assertions made by the "professional" I spoke to over the
> phone:
>
> 1. Professional: "The audio system was showing a 9A draw even when the car
> was off."
> Me: "But wasn't the 4ga. wire that was supplying it disconnected?"
> Professional: "Yeah, but it can get its power from other sources."
>
> You see, the way I wired it, only the 4ga wire supplied power to the
> entire audio system. No remote wires. No ignition wires. The car PC was
> turned on by a simple push button switch - the car PC was powered by the
> 4ga. wire. The car PC then turned on the amplifiers through their remote
> inputs via the USB output and a couple relays.
>
> 2. Me: "But isn't it all supplied by that single 4ga. wire?"
> Professional: "There were two 4 ga. wires hooked up to it. And no, there
> are other sources powering the equipment."
>
> Two lies in a row. No, there weren't two 4ga. wires. And no, there were
> no
> other sources. Next.
>
> 3. Professional: "The amplifier was generating feedback in the electrical
> system. I know this because I disconnected the positive wire to the
> amplifier and left the ground wire attached and it was still delivering
> large amounts of current through the ground."
> Me: "But don't you need the positive wire to 'close the loop'?"
> Professional: "Nah."
>
> He rewrote Kirchoff's Law in one fell swoop. Way to go.
>
> 4. Professional: "Today's Cadillacs aren't designed to handle big 4 ga.
> wires. They create so much RF that it's like having a broadcast antenna
> in
> your car. It damages the sensitive electronics."
>
> Interestingly, the sensor that went bad was nowhere near the "broadcast
> antenna" that I call a wire. In fact, nothing was - oh, except for the
> stock 4ga. wire running from the alternator.
>
> 5. Professional: "Every time I would unhook a device from the distribution
> block, the current draw would decrease. It's my opinion that all of your
> amps and processors went bad at the same time and caused the car to
> malfunction."
>
> Zebras...horses...
>
> 6. Professional: "When the car was dropped off to me, the car PC was on."
>
> Not only was the power plug pulled from the car PC, but the 4ga. cable
> supplying it was not attached.
>
> 7. Professional: "The car PC was drawing most of that 9A draw, even when
> off."
>
> There is a 3A fuse on the wire feeding the car PC.
>
> 8. Me: "What do you think is more likely? That all of my audio equipment
> blew at the same time the moment I turned on the car in the dealer's
> parking
> lot, and that this caused the car's electronics problems to occur? Or
> that
> when they recharged the battery they used a boost charge which delivered
>>16v to the electrical system because they failed to unhook the positive
> battery cable first (which registered on the car's error codes)?"
> Professional: "I think it was the audio system."
> Me: "Thank you for your time."
>
>


Dear god,

4 GA transmitting wire, far too inductive to be a good antenna!

Hmmmmm, is the alternator hot with the car off? I 'spect a bad diode.

So they hooked your system back up for you after you disconnected it for
servicing of an unrelated problem? If so then their "above and beyond" went
WAY outside their duties of repair. Automotive mechanics must work within
the confines of their little "book". Somebody was "messin" and went too far
to satisfy their desires.

Chad

[MZ]

> Dear god,
>
> 4 GA transmitting wire, far too inductive to be a good antenna!
>
> Hmmmmm, is the alternator hot with the car off? I 'spect a bad diode.

Supposedly it's working fine now. I haven't picked it up yet. I have to
drive 6 hours to be able to. I dropped it off at the place that I bought it
because, apparently, only they will honor the warranty. Anyway, I hadn't
thought of the bad diode bit. This particular car actually had an
alternator recall if I'm not mistaken. But they said the problem was a
"sensor". Yeah, ok.

> So they hooked your system back up for you after you disconnected it for
> servicing of an unrelated problem? If so then their "above and beyond"
went
> WAY outside their duties of repair. Automotive mechanics must work within
> the confines of their little "book". Somebody was "messin" and went too
far
> to satisfy their desires.

I think what happened was this. Dealer couldn't fix it. Take it to another
dealer. Other dealer suspects it's the audio system because he can't figure
out what the real problem is. So they bring it to a car audio shop, who
proceeds to mess with the audio system.

Anyway, I can't wait to get the car back so I can hook up the audio system
and measure the current it's drawing while off. Betcha a dollar it's
normal. I love self-healing audio equipment!

[Scott Gardner]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 16:32:35 -0500, "MZ"
> wrote:

>> Dear god,
>>
>> 4 GA transmitting wire, far too inductive to be a good antenna!
>>
>> Hmmmmm, is the alternator hot with the car off? I 'spect a bad diode.
>
>Supposedly it's working fine now. I haven't picked it up yet. I have to
>drive 6 hours to be able to. I dropped it off at the place that I bought it
>because, apparently, only they will honor the warranty.

Exactly what kind of a warranty was this? If it's a factory warranty
from GM, any GM dealership should be able to work on it.


--
Scott Gardner

"Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into jet air intakes."

[MZ]

> >Supposedly it's working fine now. I haven't picked it up yet. I have to
> >drive 6 hours to be able to. I dropped it off at the place that I bought
it
> >because, apparently, only they will honor the warranty.
>
> Exactly what kind of a warranty was this? If it's a factory warranty
> from GM, any GM dealership should be able to work on it.

Their original claim was that it was a factory warranty. When I went to a
local dealership, though, they couldn't find the warranty in the database.
Then, I got some explanation from them that it was a 3rd party warranty.
But even those are supposed to be applicable at all Caddy dealers. So I
ended up taking it back to Massachusetts to be worked on because they knew
the true nature of the warranty, and they were more trustworthy than the
local dealership who had previously screwed me out of $500 when they "fixed"
an entirely different problem. (they butt connector'd a couple wires under
the hood when, in fact, the problem I had brought to them turned out to be
fixed with a new set of spark plugs)

[FasDeth]

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> So my car has been in the shop for a little over two months with a
> "mystery" electrical problem. I know what caused the problem - when I
> dropped the car off for routine maintenance, they let the battery die and
> then boost charged it. I know they provided more than 16 volts because I
> got an error code that said just that. Subsequently, the fuel guage
> sensor also popped when they did this, but that was an easy fix.
>
> They've come back to me now saying that the warranty will not cover the
> repair because there's an aftermarket audio system installed. It's my
> understanding that they have to prove that this was the cause of the
> electrical problems (which they obviously wouldn't be able to do) in order
> to void the warranty. Does anyone know more about this? Any personal
> experiences? How did you go about resolving the problem?
>
Thanks for the heads up on this..I was unaware about OBD II thing. I do
Auto/ Marine Upholstery and Conv Tops. Our charger can do the following -
6v/low - 12v/trickle - 12v/Boost(16v). When doing tops I try to keep the
battery on trickle. Moving to top back forth can kill a battery pretty
quick. Boost is used for starting a dead battery only. It will boil the best
battery. The guy that shares my building did this once. Talk about stink.
And the burning eyes and throat..
-FD

[Chad Wahls]

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
>> Dear god,
>>
>> 4 GA transmitting wire, far too inductive to be a good antenna!
>>
>> Hmmmmm, is the alternator hot with the car off? I 'spect a bad diode.
>
> Supposedly it's working fine now. I haven't picked it up yet. I have to
> drive 6 hours to be able to. I dropped it off at the place that I bought
> it
> because, apparently, only they will honor the warranty. Anyway, I hadn't
> thought of the bad diode bit. This particular car actually had an
> alternator recall if I'm not mistaken. But they said the problem was a
> "sensor". Yeah, ok.


I had a caddy for oh, about a month. Granted it was 20 some odd years older
than yours but the story's coencide. I parked it for a few hours and came
back to find the battery dead as a door nail. When we jumped it I found the
temp light and other idiot lights on before I even turned the key. Bad
diode in the rectifier leaking back into the electrical system., new
alternator solved the problem snipty snap.

Chad

[MZ]

> I had a caddy for oh, about a month. Granted it was 20 some odd years older
> than yours but the story's coencide. I parked it for a few hours and came
> back to find the battery dead as a door nail. When we jumped it I found the
> temp light and other idiot lights on before I even turned the key. Bad
> diode in the rectifier leaking back into the electrical system., new
> alternator solved the problem snipty snap.

What's the easiest way to go about testing this, short of outright
replacing it?

[Chad Wahls]

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
>> I had a caddy for oh, about a month. Granted it was 20 some odd years
>> older
>> than yours but the story's coencide. I parked it for a few hours and
>> came
>> back to find the battery dead as a door nail. When we jumped it I found
>> the
>> temp light and other idiot lights on before I even turned the key. Bad
>> diode in the rectifier leaking back into the electrical system., new
>> alternator solved the problem snipty snap.
>
> What's the easiest way to go about testing this, short of outright
> replacing it?

Unhook the alternator and see if it is still drawing, Mine was backfeeding
through the feild coil. Just pull the connector and bat connector. It's
not the 16V that kills those diodes it's the inrush current of the battery
going "OUCH!"

Best of luck, Chad!

Chad