what is the minimum size of a listening room (stereo music)?

[[email protected]]

Hi,

"What size room is best (for a listening room)?

To this question rec.audio FAQ answers: "For smoothest bass response, a
listening room should be as large as possible".
The FAQ also provides with ideal proportions of the room, speakers
position, etc, but it does not tell about the *minimum* requirements
for the size of a room that can still be accepted for decent listening
of hi-fi stereo...

I am living abroad at the moment and I have to rent a room. The one
that I have now is pretty small. I would like to buy a stereo (cd
player+amp+2 speakers) for about $1500 and I am considering if it makes
any sense to buy hi-fi if the room is so small - about 3m x 4m. Maybe I
could rent a bigger room, but not too big because of terribly high room
prices in London...(I prefer to spend on hi-fi than on rent, but on the
other side I need the room of the right (?mx?m) size)

Two questions:
1. What are the minimum room size requirements that can still be
accepted for a listening room?
2. Does it make any sense to buy a hi-fi for a temporary room when in
the future this hi-fi will be used in different room?

Thank you for your help!

Andrew

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com
> Hi,
>
> "What size room is best (for a listening room)?
>
> To this question rec.audio FAQ answers: "For smoothest bass response,
> a listening room should be as large as possible".
> The FAQ also provides with ideal proportions of the room, speakers
> position, etc, but it does not tell about the *minimum* requirements
> for the size of a room that can still be accepted for decent listening
> of hi-fi stereo...

Room size depends on what your tastes are. Contrary to popular belief, a
small room does not limit bass extension. In fact, a smaller room can
increase bass extension, particularly with smaller speakers.

> I am living abroad at the moment and I have to rent a room. The one
> that I have now is pretty small. I would like to buy a stereo (cd
> player+amp+2 speakers) for about $1500 and I am considering if it
> makes any sense to buy hi-fi if the room is so small - about 3m x 4m.

If your room ends up with a nasty sound due to standing waves, consider
adding bass traps - please see:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

> Maybe I could rent a bigger room, but not too big because of terribly
> high room prices in London...(I prefer to spend on hi-fi than on
> rent, but on the other side I need the room of the right (?mx?m) size)

Another major issue relates to how well your neighbors can tolerate sound
transmission from your room.
>
> Two questions:
> 1. What are the minimum room size requirements that can still be
> accepted for a listening room?
> 2. Does it make any sense to buy a hi-fi for a temporary room when in
> the future this hi-fi will be used in different room?
>
> Thank you for your help!
>
> Andrew

[dave weil]

On 25 Feb 2005 05:00:28 -0800, wrote:

>Hi,
>
>"What size room is best (for a listening room)?
>
>To this question rec.audio FAQ answers: "For smoothest bass response, a
>listening room should be as large as possible".
>The FAQ also provides with ideal proportions of the room, speakers
>position, etc, but it does not tell about the *minimum* requirements
>for the size of a room that can still be accepted for decent listening
>of hi-fi stereo...
>
>I am living abroad at the moment and I have to rent a room. The one
>that I have now is pretty small. I would like to buy a stereo (cd
>player+amp+2 speakers) for about $1500 and I am considering if it makes
>any sense to buy hi-fi if the room is so small - about 3m x 4m. Maybe I
>could rent a bigger room, but not too big because of terribly high room
>prices in London...(I prefer to spend on hi-fi than on rent, but on the
>other side I need the room of the right (?mx?m) size)
>
>Two questions:
>1. What are the minimum room size requirements that can still be
>accepted for a listening room?
>2. Does it make any sense to buy a hi-fi for a temporary room when in
>the future this hi-fi will be used in different room?
>
>Thank you for your help!
>
>Andrew

What's more important than size is dimensions and the ratio between
height, width and depth. That will affect things like nulls and
standing waves.

Here are three such ratios as listed on the Sound On Sound website:

"Several sets of preferred ratios have evolved which work well
practically as well as theoretically. Three of these are:

1 : 1.14 : 1.39
1 : 1.28 : 1.54
1 : 1.6 : 2.33"

Obviously, you are going to limited in your ability to match one of
these ratios, but if one apartment puts you closer than another, it
might be a deciding factor on you chosing one over the other.

One of my favorite rooms for sound was a bedroom that I had in
Germany. It was only about 4.5 meters by 3.5 meters (don't remember
exactly how big it was), but one wall had a 45 degree slope to the
ceiling starting about a meter from the floor. The speakers were on
that wall and I got a particularly smooth and deep bass response. I
think it's generally agreed that "unsquare" surfaces can help break up
standing waves which can cause boominess.

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

> Hi,
>
> "What size room is best (for a listening room)?
>
> To this question rec.audio FAQ answers: "For smoothest bass response, a
> listening room should be as large as possible".
> The FAQ also provides with ideal proportions of the room, speakers
> position, etc, but it does not tell about the *minimum* requirements
> for the size of a room that can still be accepted for decent listening
> of hi-fi stereo...
>
> I am living abroad at the moment and I have to rent a room. The one
> that I have now is pretty small. I would like to buy a stereo (cd
> player+amp+2 speakers) for about $1500 and I am considering if it makes
> any sense to buy hi-fi if the room is so small - about 3m x 4m.

11*14 ft is kind of small. 4m*5m is probably the smallest I'd
consider - about the size of most living rooms.

> Two questions:
> 1. What are the minimum room size requirements that can still be
> accepted for a listening room?
> 2. Does it make any sense to buy a hi-fi for a temporary room when in
> the future this hi-fi will be used in different room?

Yes. Good sound will still be good sound after the move. :)

I'd actually suggest a loft if you can find one - get the most
open space that you can and use portable dividers as walls
(or install them, like they do in Japanese homes) There is
a lot you can do with even a 600sq ft open space. :)

That said, for stereo music, I like to spend about $1000 on
a good set of speakers. Given that you live in the U.K.,
that makes Tannoy an obvious choice, especially used. KEF
is also a good choice, though they tend to be a bit pricier
for the sound you get.

Almost any receiver will do, as will a CD player(or just get
a DVD player). Figure $100 for a DVD player, $200-300 for the
amplifier. Again, used is good - I recommend one of the 5-8
year old pre DTS receivers. People dump perfectly good receivers
to get the latest surround modes, yet these old things are great
as a 2-channel amplifier. Something like a Kenwood KR-V Dolby Digital
amplifier would per perfect. My one in the computer room does
100wpc*2 just fine.

That leaves $1200 for the speakers.

[[email protected]]

If you could get the Tannoy concentric drivers without their cabinets,
I'd be more supportive.

[jeffc]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Two questions:
> 1. What are the minimum room size requirements that can still be
> accepted for a listening room?

There isn't a real minimum. In fact, there are some smaller rooms that
sound better than some bigger rooms. The ratio of the dimensions of the
room are quite important. An 8 by 8 by 8 room will probably sound horrible.
But an 8 by 9 by 10 room will probably sound better than a 12 by 12 by 12
room. For more on this see Master Handbook of Acoustics, or Guide to High
End Audio by Harley. There are many other things you can do to improve the
sound of a room. Room acoustics are far, far more important than most
people think. It's probably the second most important link in the audio
chain, after your speakers.

> 2. Does it make any sense to buy a hi-fi for a temporary room when in
> the future this hi-fi will be used in different room?

Sure. You can tweak to make different stereos sound better in different
rooms. Any decent stereo can be made to sound good in any decent room, even
if it would sound optimal in a different room.

[jeffc]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Several sets of preferred ratios have evolved which work well
> practically as well as theoretically. Three of these are:
>
> 1 : 1.14 : 1.39
> 1 : 1.28 : 1.54

It just so happens that the second one corresponds to a room with an 8 foot
ceiling (don't know how tall normal ceilings are "abroad"), a 10' wall, and
a 13' wall. That's pretty darn close to the 3m by 4m mentioned by zigg.

[jeffc]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> I'd actually suggest a loft if you can find one - get the most
> open space that you can and use portable dividers as walls
> (or install them, like they do in Japanese homes) There is
> a lot you can do with even a 600sq ft open space. :)

I think this is probably the worst possibly solution sound-wise. The main
attribute to a rectangular room is that if it has good dimension ratios,
then it is predictable and workable. For example, you can put sound
absorbers at reflection points on the walls very cheaply, or a couple bass
traps in the corners. However your suggestion could lead to a complete
acoustical mess.

> Almost any receiver will do

Hmmm.

[Joseph Oberlander]

jeffc wrote:

> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>>I'd actually suggest a loft if you can find one - get the most
>>open space that you can and use portable dividers as walls
>>(or install them, like they do in Japanese homes) There is
>>a lot you can do with even a 600sq ft open space. :)
>
>
> I think this is probably the worst possibly solution sound-wise. The main
> attribute to a rectangular room is that if it has good dimension ratios,
> then it is predictable and workable. For example, you can put sound
> absorbers at reflection points on the walls very cheaply, or a couple bass
> traps in the corners. However your suggestion could lead to a complete
> acoustical mess.

I was thinking of more of a big rectangular room with a small metal
or cement ledge/area up top(railing of course) to sleep in.
Even better if it has a nice 20ft high ceiling :)