Fast breakdown

[Carey Carlan]

What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?

I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

[Don Richardson]

(1) a 10 foot 8-pair drum snake (mic names labelled at both ends) that
plugs into my backline stage box

(2) all other XLR cables spool onto plastic cable reels ($12 at the
hardware store)--there's one for short, and one for long cables

Carey Carlan wrote:
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

[Don Richardson]

(1) a 10 foot 8-pair drum snake (mic names labelled at both ends) that
plugs into my backline stage box

(2) all other XLR cables spool onto plastic cable reels ($12 at the
hardware store)--there's one for short, and one for long cables

Carey Carlan wrote:
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?


1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

2. Modularize your stuff, and have it pre-wired before you
leave your place.

3. "A place for every thing, and everything in its place."

4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
Use down time wisely.

5. If you set up back stage, get as close to the stage exit
as you can considering where you have to run power and
signal wires. And of course, you parked as close to that
door as possible, right?

6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes and
"StarQuad" stereo pairs. Make cable adapters or adapter
boxes for each end with D5F/M and D3F/M. It's amazing how
much time and grief is saved by just using efficient
cabling.

8. Get to the location early enough to set your stuff up,
run your cabling in the most efficient way with strike in
mind, and certainly out of the way of both the performing
group and any stage crew that has no interest in how
difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
your pile of spaghetti.

9. Use only enough gaffer tape (never duct tape) to do the
job. No more, no less. Unless house rules require you to
tape every inch of your cabling, don't. Just tape the areas
of obvious traffic safety.

10. You already know the proper way to remove your gaffer
tape from your cabling on the floor. Never, NEVER, _NEVER_
allow a stranger (including stage crew), friend, or family
member - no matter how good-hearted - to touch your
taped-down cabling. And unless they know how to coil your
cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid), never,
NEVER, _NEVER_ allow the above listed to touch your cabling.
NEVER.

There's ten. Good start on an article for somebody.

I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
before the audience had cleared the house.



TM

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?


1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

2. Modularize your stuff, and have it pre-wired before you
leave your place.

3. "A place for every thing, and everything in its place."

4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
Use down time wisely.

5. If you set up back stage, get as close to the stage exit
as you can considering where you have to run power and
signal wires. And of course, you parked as close to that
door as possible, right?

6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes and
"StarQuad" stereo pairs. Make cable adapters or adapter
boxes for each end with D5F/M and D3F/M. It's amazing how
much time and grief is saved by just using efficient
cabling.

8. Get to the location early enough to set your stuff up,
run your cabling in the most efficient way with strike in
mind, and certainly out of the way of both the performing
group and any stage crew that has no interest in how
difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
your pile of spaghetti.

9. Use only enough gaffer tape (never duct tape) to do the
job. No more, no less. Unless house rules require you to
tape every inch of your cabling, don't. Just tape the areas
of obvious traffic safety.

10. You already know the proper way to remove your gaffer
tape from your cabling on the floor. Never, NEVER, _NEVER_
allow a stranger (including stage crew), friend, or family
member - no matter how good-hearted - to touch your
taped-down cabling. And unless they know how to coil your
cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid), never,
NEVER, _NEVER_ allow the above listed to touch your cabling.
NEVER.

There's ten. Good start on an article for somebody.

I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
before the audience had cleared the house.



TM

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?



11. Establish and maintain a cabling/plugging schema. Years
ago I memorized the Belden multi-pair color code, and still
use it today (although they changed it). Whatever works for
you, just use something. It's easier to recall colors than
to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
corner.

12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth. I've
used a DuraCell DuraBeam for 20 years or more and it's
perfect for my needs. I don't think they make it anymore,
but I'm sure there are nice little LED flashlights that will
do the job.

13.If you're using a mixing console, always plug as
consistently as possible. For example, I always plug my main
stereo pair into channels 1 & 2. Everything else follows
from there. If I'm doing a symphony or other large
instrumental group, I always plug from high-register to
low-register, channels 3 to how-ever-many-it-takes. Vocal
soloists after that. My operating procedure has always been
to make sure my stereo pair is solid and accessible. If I
lose or can't set up the other stuff, at least my stereo
pair is set up first and working. And having it always on
the first two channels lets me get my hands on the faders in
a split second without having to scan the board first,
especially in a dark, back-stage corner. Besides, it nice to
be able to get your concentration back and your mind on
business when you've been making goo-goo eyes at the cute
cellist during rests :-)

There's 3 more.


TM

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?



11. Establish and maintain a cabling/plugging schema. Years
ago I memorized the Belden multi-pair color code, and still
use it today (although they changed it). Whatever works for
you, just use something. It's easier to recall colors than
to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
corner.

12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth. I've
used a DuraCell DuraBeam for 20 years or more and it's
perfect for my needs. I don't think they make it anymore,
but I'm sure there are nice little LED flashlights that will
do the job.

13.If you're using a mixing console, always plug as
consistently as possible. For example, I always plug my main
stereo pair into channels 1 & 2. Everything else follows
from there. If I'm doing a symphony or other large
instrumental group, I always plug from high-register to
low-register, channels 3 to how-ever-many-it-takes. Vocal
soloists after that. My operating procedure has always been
to make sure my stereo pair is solid and accessible. If I
lose or can't set up the other stuff, at least my stereo
pair is set up first and working. And having it always on
the first two channels lets me get my hands on the faders in
a split second without having to scan the board first,
especially in a dark, back-stage corner. Besides, it nice to
be able to get your concentration back and your mind on
business when you've been making goo-goo eyes at the cute
cellist during rests :-)

There's 3 more.


TM

[Roger W. Norman]

Money and a well planned out system.

For instance, and I have to admit, I haven't done this because of the cost,
but I was using my Crest XR20 in a Gig Rig, but setup meant some serious
hassles on getting the cables into and out of the Crest, much less the
normal setup of snake to mic cables, etc. So I talked to Conquest and got a
price of $1900 for a 168 pin connector system that would bring most
everything out to a split, one going to a rack for compressors, etc., and
the other tying directly into a modified 16 channel snake. Once the Gig Rig
was set up as planned, it would be a simple matter to make the Gig Rig to
rack connection and the Gig Rig to snake connection. Then it's a matter of
a mic cable count on breakdown and you're basically out the door in 30
minutes.

At the previous East Coast Jazz Festivals I've had three rooms of equipment
and had been able to get breakdown time to just about 2 hours. That's three
separate full systems with recording and that's when Scott Dorsey couldn't
get back because of a blizzard to help with the breakdown, so proper
planning, inventory control and simply taking the time to get the cables
wrapped correctly will actually cut down time even though it seems like
you're wasting a lot of time wrapping cables. I've found if you don't take
the time for the cables, it will take you 4 times as long to get them set
the next time, so it's worth the extra 30 seconds per cable.

But, as far as specifics, it's pretty simple. De-cable mics, set them on
the floor, break down the stands, set them next to the mic, leave the
cables. Collect all the mics and pack them. Collect all the stands and
pack them. Roll each cable correctly, wrap it and box it. What I hate is
when someone throws lights into the equation because I don't do lights
enough to have much of a method and stupid thick electrical cables are just
a pain no matter what.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 191...
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

[Roger W. Norman]

Money and a well planned out system.

For instance, and I have to admit, I haven't done this because of the cost,
but I was using my Crest XR20 in a Gig Rig, but setup meant some serious
hassles on getting the cables into and out of the Crest, much less the
normal setup of snake to mic cables, etc. So I talked to Conquest and got a
price of $1900 for a 168 pin connector system that would bring most
everything out to a split, one going to a rack for compressors, etc., and
the other tying directly into a modified 16 channel snake. Once the Gig Rig
was set up as planned, it would be a simple matter to make the Gig Rig to
rack connection and the Gig Rig to snake connection. Then it's a matter of
a mic cable count on breakdown and you're basically out the door in 30
minutes.

At the previous East Coast Jazz Festivals I've had three rooms of equipment
and had been able to get breakdown time to just about 2 hours. That's three
separate full systems with recording and that's when Scott Dorsey couldn't
get back because of a blizzard to help with the breakdown, so proper
planning, inventory control and simply taking the time to get the cables
wrapped correctly will actually cut down time even though it seems like
you're wasting a lot of time wrapping cables. I've found if you don't take
the time for the cables, it will take you 4 times as long to get them set
the next time, so it's worth the extra 30 seconds per cable.

But, as far as specifics, it's pretty simple. De-cable mics, set them on
the floor, break down the stands, set them next to the mic, leave the
cables. Collect all the mics and pack them. Collect all the stands and
pack them. Roll each cable correctly, wrap it and box it. What I hate is
when someone throws lights into the equation because I don't do lights
enough to have much of a method and stupid thick electrical cables are just
a pain no matter what.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 191...
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

[Roger W. Norman]

I have a notebook that has my particular color scheme notated so that
seconds can help, plus I always TRY to have a stage diagram so once the
snake is set, it's never a matter of having to take my mind off of doing the
console setup while my second is on the stage hanging the right mics on the
right stands in the right stage position. If it's just me, then there's not
even a second thought. Get console going, hook up mics. On teardown and
loadout, do the opposite. Mics can easily be walked off with, so they
become first priority at the end of the night.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"T Maki" > wrote in message ...
> Carey Carlan wrote:
> >
> > What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
>
>
> 11. Establish and maintain a cabling/plugging schema. Years
> ago I memorized the Belden multi-pair color code, and still
> use it today (although they changed it). Whatever works for
> you, just use something. It's easier to recall colors than
> to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
> corner.
>
> 12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
> hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
> okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth. I've
> used a DuraCell DuraBeam for 20 years or more and it's
> perfect for my needs. I don't think they make it anymore,
> but I'm sure there are nice little LED flashlights that will
> do the job.
>
> 13.If you're using a mixing console, always plug as
> consistently as possible. For example, I always plug my main
> stereo pair into channels 1 & 2. Everything else follows
> from there. If I'm doing a symphony or other large
> instrumental group, I always plug from high-register to
> low-register, channels 3 to how-ever-many-it-takes. Vocal
> soloists after that. My operating procedure has always been
> to make sure my stereo pair is solid and accessible. If I
> lose or can't set up the other stuff, at least my stereo
> pair is set up first and working. And having it always on
> the first two channels lets me get my hands on the faders in
> a split second without having to scan the board first,
> especially in a dark, back-stage corner. Besides, it nice to
> be able to get your concentration back and your mind on
> business when you've been making goo-goo eyes at the cute
> cellist during rests :-)
>
> There's 3 more.
>
>
> TM

[Roger W. Norman]

I have a notebook that has my particular color scheme notated so that
seconds can help, plus I always TRY to have a stage diagram so once the
snake is set, it's never a matter of having to take my mind off of doing the
console setup while my second is on the stage hanging the right mics on the
right stands in the right stage position. If it's just me, then there's not
even a second thought. Get console going, hook up mics. On teardown and
loadout, do the opposite. Mics can easily be walked off with, so they
become first priority at the end of the night.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"T Maki" > wrote in message ...
> Carey Carlan wrote:
> >
> > What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
>
>
> 11. Establish and maintain a cabling/plugging schema. Years
> ago I memorized the Belden multi-pair color code, and still
> use it today (although they changed it). Whatever works for
> you, just use something. It's easier to recall colors than
> to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
> corner.
>
> 12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
> hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
> okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth. I've
> used a DuraCell DuraBeam for 20 years or more and it's
> perfect for my needs. I don't think they make it anymore,
> but I'm sure there are nice little LED flashlights that will
> do the job.
>
> 13.If you're using a mixing console, always plug as
> consistently as possible. For example, I always plug my main
> stereo pair into channels 1 & 2. Everything else follows
> from there. If I'm doing a symphony or other large
> instrumental group, I always plug from high-register to
> low-register, channels 3 to how-ever-many-it-takes. Vocal
> soloists after that. My operating procedure has always been
> to make sure my stereo pair is solid and accessible. If I
> lose or can't set up the other stuff, at least my stereo
> pair is set up first and working. And having it always on
> the first two channels lets me get my hands on the faders in
> a split second without having to scan the board first,
> especially in a dark, back-stage corner. Besides, it nice to
> be able to get your concentration back and your mind on
> business when you've been making goo-goo eyes at the cute
> cellist during rests :-)
>
> There's 3 more.
>
>
> TM

[Lars Farm]

T Maki > wrote:

> And unless they know how to coil your
> cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]

I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

L


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[Lars Farm]

T Maki > wrote:

> And unless they know how to coil your
> cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]

I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

L


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[Logan Shaw]

Lars Farm wrote:

> T Maki > wrote:
>
>
>>And unless they know how to coil your
>>cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
>>more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>
>
> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

The other way is all about not twisting up the cords as you coil them up.

It's important to get some geometry first. If you have a straight
cord and you want to put a loop in it, the easiest way to do that
is to twist the cord. The loop then forms naturally. If you do
this over and over again, you get multiple loops which form a coil.
This is essentially what you're doing when you do the thumb-and-elbow
technique. But, there is a problem: if you uncoil by just pulling
at both ends of the cable, then you have twisted when you coiled it
up but not untwisted when you uncoiled. So the cable is still twisted.

There are two bad things about being still twisted. The first is
that it's bad for the cable. It puts stress on it. That can screw
up the shield. The second is that a cord which is twisted will
tend to want to form loops even after you straighten it out. That
causes the cords to get tangled, because they cannot be smoothly
pulled through things.

So, there is not really a way to coil a cord (short of putting it
on a spool and spinning the spool) without causing the cord to
twist. But there is a loophole you can exploit: you can twist
one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
loop. This leaves you with basically no net twist, so that when
you yank both ends of the cable, the thing just uncoils naturally
with a minimum of tangling.

I think there is more than one way to accomplish this alternating
twist thing, so I'll just describe the way I do it.

1. Stick left hand out with palm up.
2. Lay cable end over hand so connector points away from my body
and hangs between thumb and pointer finger.
3. Grip cable between thumb and pointer finger.
4. With right hand, stretch cable back to my elbow, grabbing
between thumb and pointer finger.
5. With one motion, twist cable and form a loop. Twisting
is accomplished by having thumb (on top) move to the left
and fingers (below) move to the right.
6. At this point, hands are together and cable is between them;
transfer new loop from right hand to left.
7. Now form another loop, but in contrast to #5, twist the
opposite direction. Instead of twisting with just the
fingers, twist with the wrist. As my right hand moves
toward my left, my right hand is turning over so that
the palm of my hand faces upward rather than the back of
my hand. Also my right elbow moves towards the left elbow.
8. At this point, hands are together, but new loop of cable
is not between them. Instead, the loop of cable is draped
over my right hand and my right hand is between the coil
and the new loop. Transfer the loop to the left hand.
9. Now, repeat starting at step 5, so that each loop is
done the opposite way from the preceding loop.

When you are done, you should be able to take the loop of cable,
hold one end, and toss the whole thing out across the floor, and
you should have a straight cable with no loops and no tangles.

Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
without being able to be visual.

- Logan

[Logan Shaw]

Lars Farm wrote:

> T Maki > wrote:
>
>
>>And unless they know how to coil your
>>cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
>>more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>
>
> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

The other way is all about not twisting up the cords as you coil them up.

It's important to get some geometry first. If you have a straight
cord and you want to put a loop in it, the easiest way to do that
is to twist the cord. The loop then forms naturally. If you do
this over and over again, you get multiple loops which form a coil.
This is essentially what you're doing when you do the thumb-and-elbow
technique. But, there is a problem: if you uncoil by just pulling
at both ends of the cable, then you have twisted when you coiled it
up but not untwisted when you uncoiled. So the cable is still twisted.

There are two bad things about being still twisted. The first is
that it's bad for the cable. It puts stress on it. That can screw
up the shield. The second is that a cord which is twisted will
tend to want to form loops even after you straighten it out. That
causes the cords to get tangled, because they cannot be smoothly
pulled through things.

So, there is not really a way to coil a cord (short of putting it
on a spool and spinning the spool) without causing the cord to
twist. But there is a loophole you can exploit: you can twist
one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
loop. This leaves you with basically no net twist, so that when
you yank both ends of the cable, the thing just uncoils naturally
with a minimum of tangling.

I think there is more than one way to accomplish this alternating
twist thing, so I'll just describe the way I do it.

1. Stick left hand out with palm up.
2. Lay cable end over hand so connector points away from my body
and hangs between thumb and pointer finger.
3. Grip cable between thumb and pointer finger.
4. With right hand, stretch cable back to my elbow, grabbing
between thumb and pointer finger.
5. With one motion, twist cable and form a loop. Twisting
is accomplished by having thumb (on top) move to the left
and fingers (below) move to the right.
6. At this point, hands are together and cable is between them;
transfer new loop from right hand to left.
7. Now form another loop, but in contrast to #5, twist the
opposite direction. Instead of twisting with just the
fingers, twist with the wrist. As my right hand moves
toward my left, my right hand is turning over so that
the palm of my hand faces upward rather than the back of
my hand. Also my right elbow moves towards the left elbow.
8. At this point, hands are together, but new loop of cable
is not between them. Instead, the loop of cable is draped
over my right hand and my right hand is between the coil
and the new loop. Transfer the loop to the left hand.
9. Now, repeat starting at step 5, so that each loop is
done the opposite way from the preceding loop.

When you are done, you should be able to take the loop of cable,
hold one end, and toss the whole thing out across the floor, and
you should have a straight cable with no loops and no tangles.

Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
without being able to be visual.

- Logan

[Lars Farm]

Logan Shaw > wrote:

> you can twist
> one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
> loop.

> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
> without being able to be visual.

Thanks! That'll take some practice...

Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts. Not just audio cables. Power
cables, computer cables, any cable or any string or anything remotely
resembling a piece of string of any length automatically turns into a
monstrous knot. Sometimes even before I touch it...

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[Lars Farm]

Logan Shaw > wrote:

> you can twist
> one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
> loop.

> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
> without being able to be visual.

Thanks! That'll take some practice...

Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts. Not just audio cables. Power
cables, computer cables, any cable or any string or anything remotely
resembling a piece of string of any length automatically turns into a
monstrous knot. Sometimes even before I touch it...

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se

[T Maki]

Others have replied with the technique. But you've got to
practice, practice, practice. It won't get you to Carnegie
Hall, but the crew won't laugh at you or throw you out of
the place if you ever have to work there. And yes, it will
probably change your life.

Note that nearly everything in your life that can be coiled
(cables, cords, hoses, tie-down straps, etc.) can benefit
from this type of wrap. Actually, you will be the one to
benefit. It is especially useful when coiling garden hose
(if you don't have a reel). Makes it nice to just pull it
out of the coil without any twists.



TM

Lars Farm wrote:
>
> T Maki > wrote:
>
> > And unless they know how to coil your
> > cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>
> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

[T Maki]

Others have replied with the technique. But you've got to
practice, practice, practice. It won't get you to Carnegie
Hall, but the crew won't laugh at you or throw you out of
the place if you ever have to work there. And yes, it will
probably change your life.

Note that nearly everything in your life that can be coiled
(cables, cords, hoses, tie-down straps, etc.) can benefit
from this type of wrap. Actually, you will be the one to
benefit. It is especially useful when coiling garden hose
(if you don't have a reel). Makes it nice to just pull it
out of the coil without any twists.



TM

Lars Farm wrote:
>
> T Maki > wrote:
>
> > And unless they know how to coil your
> > cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>
> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.

[T Maki]

Logan Shaw wrote:

<snip an excellent explanation of the technique>

>
> When you are done, you should be able to take the loop of cable,
> hold one end, and toss the whole thing out across the floor, and
> you should have a straight cable with no loops and no tangles.

Just be sure to pull the correct end out of the coil before
tossing the whole thing across the floor. Pull the wrong end
out, and you get what we use to call "assholes" - one for
each loop. Called that because of their similarity to a
bodily orifice, the way you feel after you've done it, and
what you are called by the stage crew standing behind the
stage right leg.


TM

>
> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
> without being able to be visual.
>
> - Logan

[T Maki]

Logan Shaw wrote:

<snip an excellent explanation of the technique>

>
> When you are done, you should be able to take the loop of cable,
> hold one end, and toss the whole thing out across the floor, and
> you should have a straight cable with no loops and no tangles.

Just be sure to pull the correct end out of the coil before
tossing the whole thing across the floor. Pull the wrong end
out, and you get what we use to call "assholes" - one for
each loop. Called that because of their similarity to a
bodily orifice, the way you feel after you've done it, and
what you are called by the stage crew standing behind the
stage right leg.


TM

>
> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
> without being able to be visual.
>
> - Logan

[EganMedia]

>1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

....And know that you'll probably need more than you think...


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[EganMedia]

>1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

....And know that you'll probably need more than you think...


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[Scott Dorsey]

For really fast breakdowns, I recommend using Phase Linear amplifiers.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

For really fast breakdowns, I recommend using Phase Linear amplifiers.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Nousaine]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>For really fast breakdowns, I recommend using Phase Linear amplifiers.
>--scott
>
>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

My recomendation for break-down is Bryston amplifiers. At least the 25-year
warranty will only leave you with the cost of returning the unit to Bryston and
perhaps a $30 charge to replace your shipping carton that will surely be
damaged in transit by the 2nd return trip.

[Nousaine]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>For really fast breakdowns, I recommend using Phase Linear amplifiers.
>--scott
>
>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

My recomendation for break-down is Bryston amplifiers. At least the 25-year
warranty will only leave you with the cost of returning the unit to Bryston and
perhaps a $30 charge to replace your shipping carton that will surely be
damaged in transit by the 2nd return trip.

[agent86]

EganMedia wrote:

>>1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.
>
> ...And know that you'll probably need more than you think...

And don't forget spares for anything that might ever possibly fail.

[agent86]

EganMedia wrote:

>>1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.
>
> ...And know that you'll probably need more than you think...

And don't forget spares for anything that might ever possibly fail.

[Tracy Wintermute]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:43:27 -0800, T Maki > wrote:

>
>12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
>hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
>okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth.

And, they are particularly not recommended if you had a certain really
nasty habit in the 70s (or any other time you had/have the habit and
want to hold anything besides a fine hand rolled Dominican or Cuban
between your teeth.)

A long time ago, I started using 'headlights' for this purpose. The
first I tried were built like eyeglass frames, with a little light at
each temple hinge. Then, there were types that hooked to your ball
cap, and others with head straps. Kinda like miner's lamps; both hands
are free, no tooth degradation. Lots of these are sold in the fishing
sections of department stores, as well as other places.

What I have used most recently, and find to be the 'best yet' IMO, is
the TopSpot(r) by Streamlight. (Don't know if they have a website.)
Works on 4 AA batteries, with a decent battery lifespan. Has an
adjustable vertical angle lense, and a (not extravagant) focus
control. You can wear it with a ball cap, a do-rag, or a nekkid head
with equally acceptable results. You can leave one of these things on
your head for hours, without discomfort. Has a little on/off switch,
so it's not lit all the time like some older similar models. Great for
bench work too, as well as camping/backpacking and of course night
fishing. It also has a little slider doo-dad that clips the assembly
together into a reasonable hand held flashlight. (Not easy to
describe, but a nice feature.)

And no, I'm not associated with them or anything like that. I've just
tried a lot of these types of things... and if I ever find something I
like better, I'll buy it... and maybe even tell y'all about it...



====================
Tracy Wintermute

Rushcreek Ranch
====================

[Tracy Wintermute]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:43:27 -0800, T Maki > wrote:

>
>12. Get and use a convenient little flashlight that you can
>hold comfortably in your mouth. The little MagLites are
>okay, but are heavy and not easy to hold between teeth.

And, they are particularly not recommended if you had a certain really
nasty habit in the 70s (or any other time you had/have the habit and
want to hold anything besides a fine hand rolled Dominican or Cuban
between your teeth.)

A long time ago, I started using 'headlights' for this purpose. The
first I tried were built like eyeglass frames, with a little light at
each temple hinge. Then, there were types that hooked to your ball
cap, and others with head straps. Kinda like miner's lamps; both hands
are free, no tooth degradation. Lots of these are sold in the fishing
sections of department stores, as well as other places.

What I have used most recently, and find to be the 'best yet' IMO, is
the TopSpot(r) by Streamlight. (Don't know if they have a website.)
Works on 4 AA batteries, with a decent battery lifespan. Has an
adjustable vertical angle lense, and a (not extravagant) focus
control. You can wear it with a ball cap, a do-rag, or a nekkid head
with equally acceptable results. You can leave one of these things on
your head for hours, without discomfort. Has a little on/off switch,
so it's not lit all the time like some older similar models. Great for
bench work too, as well as camping/backpacking and of course night
fishing. It also has a little slider doo-dad that clips the assembly
together into a reasonable hand held flashlight. (Not easy to
describe, but a nice feature.)

And no, I'm not associated with them or anything like that. I've just
tried a lot of these types of things... and if I ever find something I
like better, I'll buy it... and maybe even tell y'all about it...



====================
Tracy Wintermute

Rushcreek Ranch
====================

[Mike Rivers]

In article arm.se> writes:

> > you can twist
> > one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
> > loop.

> Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
> for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts.

In that case, I suggest you keep doing what you're doing. Pass the end
of the cable through the hole and start unwinding and you'll get a
string of evenly spaced knots. Great if you need to make a rope ladder
to rescue a man overboard, but not good for cables that need to lay
flat on stage.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article arm.se> writes:

> > you can twist
> > one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
> > loop.

> Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
> for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts.

In that case, I suggest you keep doing what you're doing. Pass the end
of the cable through the hole and start unwinding and you'll get a
string of evenly spaced knots. Great if you need to make a rope ladder
to rescue a man overboard, but not good for cables that need to lay
flat on stage.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Carey Carlan]

T Maki > wrote in :

> 1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

That's always the tough one. I showed up Tuesday to record two groups
and discovered I needed three setups instead.

> 2. Modularize your stuff, and have it pre-wired before you
> leave your place.

The joys of well integrated travel cases.

> 3. "A place for every thing, and everything in its place."
>
> 4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
> organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
> Use down time wisely.

But if you brought only what you need, it's all still in use until the
show's over.

> 5. If you set up back stage, get as close to the stage exit
> as you can considering where you have to run power and
> signal wires. And of course, you parked as close to that
> door as possible, right?

Thank Congress for legislation requiring handicap access. My cart can
get to most stages.

> 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
> luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.

> 7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes and
> "StarQuad" stereo pairs. Make cable adapters or adapter
> boxes for each end with D5F/M and D3F/M. It's amazing how
> much time and grief is saved by just using efficient
> cabling.

Snakes are my friend, too. But I only use two mic snakes as I mic most
of my sources (orchestras, choruses, etc.) in stereo.

> 8. Get to the location early enough to set your stuff up,
> run your cabling in the most efficient way with strike in
> mind, and certainly out of the way of both the performing
> group and any stage crew that has no interest in how
> difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
> motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
> ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
> your pile of spaghetti.

In my world, the biggest problem is getting the audience out of the way.
I almost never get to put mics on stage.

> 9. Use only enough gaffer tape (never duct tape) to do the
> job. No more, no less. Unless house rules require you to
> tape every inch of your cabling, don't. Just tape the areas
> of obvious traffic safety.

And I can always find a 10 year old at the end of the show who wants the
ball of pulled-up tape.

> 10. You already know the proper way to remove your gaffer
> tape from your cabling on the floor. Never, NEVER, _NEVER_
> allow a stranger (including stage crew), friend, or family
> member - no matter how good-hearted - to touch your
> taped-down cabling. And unless they know how to coil your
> cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid), never,
> NEVER, _NEVER_ allow the above listed to touch your cabling.
> NEVER.

I learned that one the hard way many years ago. That's one reason
strikes take as long as they do. I've got to track down hundreds of feet
of mic cable by myself so I know I can use it again the next day.

I've learned to collect the cable in a circular motion that keeps it
untwisted without resorting to figure eights.

> There's ten. Good start on an article for somebody.
>
> I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
> before the audience had cleared the house.

And on a simple setup, I can do the same, but Tuesday (just before I
posted this) the maintenance guys were waiting on me, the last one out.

[Carey Carlan]

T Maki > wrote in :

> 1. Take all you need, but no more than you need.

That's always the tough one. I showed up Tuesday to record two groups
and discovered I needed three setups instead.

> 2. Modularize your stuff, and have it pre-wired before you
> leave your place.

The joys of well integrated travel cases.

> 3. "A place for every thing, and everything in its place."
>
> 4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
> organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
> Use down time wisely.

But if you brought only what you need, it's all still in use until the
show's over.

> 5. If you set up back stage, get as close to the stage exit
> as you can considering where you have to run power and
> signal wires. And of course, you parked as close to that
> door as possible, right?

Thank Congress for legislation requiring handicap access. My cart can
get to most stages.

> 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
> luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.

> 7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes and
> "StarQuad" stereo pairs. Make cable adapters or adapter
> boxes for each end with D5F/M and D3F/M. It's amazing how
> much time and grief is saved by just using efficient
> cabling.

Snakes are my friend, too. But I only use two mic snakes as I mic most
of my sources (orchestras, choruses, etc.) in stereo.

> 8. Get to the location early enough to set your stuff up,
> run your cabling in the most efficient way with strike in
> mind, and certainly out of the way of both the performing
> group and any stage crew that has no interest in how
> difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
> motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
> ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
> your pile of spaghetti.

In my world, the biggest problem is getting the audience out of the way.
I almost never get to put mics on stage.

> 9. Use only enough gaffer tape (never duct tape) to do the
> job. No more, no less. Unless house rules require you to
> tape every inch of your cabling, don't. Just tape the areas
> of obvious traffic safety.

And I can always find a 10 year old at the end of the show who wants the
ball of pulled-up tape.

> 10. You already know the proper way to remove your gaffer
> tape from your cabling on the floor. Never, NEVER, _NEVER_
> allow a stranger (including stage crew), friend, or family
> member - no matter how good-hearted - to touch your
> taped-down cabling. And unless they know how to coil your
> cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid), never,
> NEVER, _NEVER_ allow the above listed to touch your cabling.
> NEVER.

I learned that one the hard way many years ago. That's one reason
strikes take as long as they do. I've got to track down hundreds of feet
of mic cable by myself so I know I can use it again the next day.

I've learned to collect the cable in a circular motion that keeps it
untwisted without resorting to figure eights.

> There's ten. Good start on an article for somebody.
>
> I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
> before the audience had cleared the house.

And on a simple setup, I can do the same, but Tuesday (just before I
posted this) the maintenance guys were waiting on me, the last one out.

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:02:48 GMT, Logan Shaw > wrote:
> Lars Farm wrote:
>
>> T Maki > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And unless they know how to coil your
>>>cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
>>>more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>>
>>
>> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.
>
> The other way is all about not twisting up the cords as you coil them up.
>
>
> 1. Stick left hand out with palm up.

(snip)

Reminds me of a party game:

Without using your hands, describe how to tie a necktie.

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:02:48 GMT, Logan Shaw > wrote:
> Lars Farm wrote:
>
>> T Maki > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And unless they know how to coil your
>>>cables the way you want them - (whether lariat-wrap, or the
>>>more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid) [...]
>>
>>
>> I know the thumb-and-elbow technique, but please decribe the other.
>
> The other way is all about not twisting up the cords as you coil them up.
>
>
> 1. Stick left hand out with palm up.

(snip)

Reminds me of a party game:

Without using your hands, describe how to tie a necktie.

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> > 4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
> > organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
> > Use down time wisely.
>
> But if you brought only what you need, it's all still in use until the
> show's over.

You define what you need, and when you need it. Certainly
you don't take every stand, every cable, and every piece of
equipment to every show, and unload it all. With practice,
you get an intuitive feel for what it takes.

> > 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
> > luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

> Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.

Try to think through the set up as far ahead as possible. If
you have the luxury of seeing the venue in rehearsal, forget
about basking in the glorious sound of the room, clapping
your hands and snapping you fingers, and putting on the
impression that you're some kind of "recording engineer"
(not that you do that). Get a general feel for the sound,
and then spend your time hunting down the most efficient way
to run your cables, finding power outlets (especially ones
that work or are not on the breaker with the coffee pot for
the after-show reception) and whether or not those outlets
have three holes (your ground lift adapter will always be in
the case you left behind unless you carry one in every case
you own as I learned to do years ago), and what your
alternatives are in case the house manager (or other person
who will declare that "you can't set those there") declares
that "you can't set those there." Get in as early as
possible. Make arrangements if you can with the director of
the show to get you in early. If you can't get in early, you
just have to develop a sense to sniff out the outlets, etc.
I've been doing this kind of work for nearly 30 years in
many places in this country and overseas, and I've developed
that sense. After the show, your time is limited because
everybody wants to get out of there. You will not be
appreciated if your strike puts the maintenance person on
overtime. He/she will love it, but either the group or the
house is paying for it, and if you work with the kinds of
groups I've worked over the years, your spending their money
for them may wind up costing YOU (what is the sound of a
telephone not ringing...?) And, of course, if you're setting
up in a festival situation and another group is scheduled on
stage in 15 minutes that you aren't recording, and you have
to get your stuff out of there...

> > 7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes
>
> Snakes are my friend, too. But I only use two mic snakes as I mic most
> of my sources (orchestras, choruses, etc.) in stereo.

Snakes aren't necessarily 24X16, or 56X24 affairs. A snake
is just any combination of multipairs that get the job done.
Belden and most of the other wire manufacturers make a nice
selection of multipair (Belden's Brilliance line is quite
nice). Buy a couple of hundred feet of 4-pair or 6-pair or
8-pair (or whatever your budget dictates) and make the
number of stereo pairs you typically need. If you know you
most often need three stereo feeds, make up a 6-pair in the
length(s) you typically need. If all you ever do is a single
pair with an occassional other pair (whether "stereo" or
not) then just have a selection of 2-pair (I use Canare
StarQuad) with A5F and A5M with the necessary adapters.
(Apologies to the Neutrik worshippers. I use Switchcraft
almost exclusively for reasons of my own.)
>
> > difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
> > motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
> > ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
> > your pile of spaghetti.
>
> In my world, the biggest problem is getting the audience out of the way.
> I almost never get to put mics on stage.

Mine too. That's when you have to exercise people skills and
have a chat with the director of the organization and give
them the option of making the decision. You tell them that
to make the best recording under the circumstances, you will
have to put the mic stand(s) in what may be the best seat(s)
in the house with a couple of seats on both sides. If you
can't put your equipment there, the recording will be
compromised somewhat. "What would you like me to do?" I
record many things where the patron seats or season
subscriber seats are, of course, the best seats. No
compromise possible in that case. I do the best I can while
trying to be unobtrusive (and certainly polite) to the
audience. You never know who that little blue-haired lady is
that's right where you want to put your stand.

> > I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
> > before the audience had cleared the house.
>
> And on a simple setup, I can do the same, but Tuesday (just before I
> posted this) the maintenance guys were waiting on me, the last one out.

Just to be fair, I get a lot of time chatting with drummers.
Mainly because drummers and sound people (or recordists in
this context) are the first ones there and the last to
leave. Most of the time, custodians are waiting for me, too.


TM

[T Maki]

Carey Carlan wrote:
>
> > 4. Use pre-show time, and intermissions to pre-strike and
> > organize the stuff you don't need. Pack it in your vehicle.
> > Use down time wisely.
>
> But if you brought only what you need, it's all still in use until the
> show's over.

You define what you need, and when you need it. Certainly
you don't take every stand, every cable, and every piece of
equipment to every show, and unload it all. With practice,
you get an intuitive feel for what it takes.

> > 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
> > luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.

> Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.

Try to think through the set up as far ahead as possible. If
you have the luxury of seeing the venue in rehearsal, forget
about basking in the glorious sound of the room, clapping
your hands and snapping you fingers, and putting on the
impression that you're some kind of "recording engineer"
(not that you do that). Get a general feel for the sound,
and then spend your time hunting down the most efficient way
to run your cables, finding power outlets (especially ones
that work or are not on the breaker with the coffee pot for
the after-show reception) and whether or not those outlets
have three holes (your ground lift adapter will always be in
the case you left behind unless you carry one in every case
you own as I learned to do years ago), and what your
alternatives are in case the house manager (or other person
who will declare that "you can't set those there") declares
that "you can't set those there." Get in as early as
possible. Make arrangements if you can with the director of
the show to get you in early. If you can't get in early, you
just have to develop a sense to sniff out the outlets, etc.
I've been doing this kind of work for nearly 30 years in
many places in this country and overseas, and I've developed
that sense. After the show, your time is limited because
everybody wants to get out of there. You will not be
appreciated if your strike puts the maintenance person on
overtime. He/she will love it, but either the group or the
house is paying for it, and if you work with the kinds of
groups I've worked over the years, your spending their money
for them may wind up costing YOU (what is the sound of a
telephone not ringing...?) And, of course, if you're setting
up in a festival situation and another group is scheduled on
stage in 15 minutes that you aren't recording, and you have
to get your stuff out of there...

> > 7. When situations permit, make up and use snakes
>
> Snakes are my friend, too. But I only use two mic snakes as I mic most
> of my sources (orchestras, choruses, etc.) in stereo.

Snakes aren't necessarily 24X16, or 56X24 affairs. A snake
is just any combination of multipairs that get the job done.
Belden and most of the other wire manufacturers make a nice
selection of multipair (Belden's Brilliance line is quite
nice). Buy a couple of hundred feet of 4-pair or 6-pair or
8-pair (or whatever your budget dictates) and make the
number of stereo pairs you typically need. If you know you
most often need three stereo feeds, make up a 6-pair in the
length(s) you typically need. If all you ever do is a single
pair with an occassional other pair (whether "stereo" or
not) then just have a selection of 2-pair (I use Canare
StarQuad) with A5F and A5M with the necessary adapters.
(Apologies to the Neutrik worshippers. I use Switchcraft
almost exclusively for reasons of my own.)
>
> > difficult it is for you to get your stuff out. Their only
> > motivation is to get the stage cleared and get out of there
> > ASAP. They don't want to wait around for you to untangle
> > your pile of spaghetti.
>
> In my world, the biggest problem is getting the audience out of the way.
> I almost never get to put mics on stage.

Mine too. That's when you have to exercise people skills and
have a chat with the director of the organization and give
them the option of making the decision. You tell them that
to make the best recording under the circumstances, you will
have to put the mic stand(s) in what may be the best seat(s)
in the house with a couple of seats on both sides. If you
can't put your equipment there, the recording will be
compromised somewhat. "What would you like me to do?" I
record many things where the patron seats or season
subscriber seats are, of course, the best seats. No
compromise possible in that case. I do the best I can while
trying to be unobtrusive (and certainly polite) to the
audience. You never know who that little blue-haired lady is
that's right where you want to put your stand.

> > I did a location last night and was on the highway to home
> > before the audience had cleared the house.
>
> And on a simple setup, I can do the same, but Tuesday (just before I
> posted this) the maintenance guys were waiting on me, the last one out.

Just to be fair, I get a lot of time chatting with drummers.
Mainly because drummers and sound people (or recordists in
this context) are the first ones there and the last to
leave. Most of the time, custodians are waiting for me, too.


TM

[jakdedert]

Carey Carlan wrote:
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

Good tips below in the thread.

One of my favorites is to never coil excess mic cords by the drum snake. If
at all possible, merely pull the exess into a single single loop behind the
riser. Sure it doesn't look as pretty as nicely coiled up cables, but when
you go to re-coil it, it won't tangle either. Besides, it can be fairly
neatly laid out behind the riser; and nobody's gonna see it except the
drummer anyway...he doesn't count.

All of the above is assuming that you don't already have a pre-made drum
loom....

jak

[jakdedert]

Carey Carlan wrote:
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

Good tips below in the thread.

One of my favorites is to never coil excess mic cords by the drum snake. If
at all possible, merely pull the exess into a single single loop behind the
riser. Sure it doesn't look as pretty as nicely coiled up cables, but when
you go to re-coil it, it won't tangle either. Besides, it can be fairly
neatly laid out behind the riser; and nobody's gonna see it except the
drummer anyway...he doesn't count.

All of the above is assuming that you don't already have a pre-made drum
loom....

jak

[jakdedert]

T Maki wrote:
> Carey Carlan wrote:
>>
>>> 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
>>> luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.
>
>> Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.
>
> Try to think through the set up as far ahead as possible. If
> you have the luxury of seeing the venue in rehearsal, forget
> about basking in the glorious sound of the room, clapping
> your hands and snapping you fingers, and putting on the
> impression that you're some kind of "recording engineer"
> (not that you do that). Get a general feel for the sound,
> and then spend your time hunting down the most efficient way
> to run your cables, finding power outlets (especially ones
> that work or are not on the breaker with the coffee pot for
> the after-show reception) and whether or not those outlets
> have three holes (your ground lift adapter will always be in
> the case you left behind unless you carry one in every case
> you own as I learned to do years ago), and what your
> alternatives are in case the house manager (or other person
> who will declare that "you can't set those there") declares
> that "you can't set those there." Get in as early as
> possible. Make arrangements if you can with the director of
> the show to get you in early. If you can't get in early, you
> just have to develop a sense to sniff out the outlets, etc.
> I've been doing this kind of work for nearly 30 years in
> many places in this country and overseas, and I've developed
> that sense. After the show, your time is limited because
> everybody wants to get out of there. You will not be
> appreciated if your strike puts the maintenance person on
> overtime. He/she will love it, but either the group or the
> house is paying for it, and if you work with the kinds of
> groups I've worked over the years, your spending their money
> for them may wind up costing YOU (what is the sound of a
> telephone not ringing...?) And, of course, if you're setting
> up in a festival situation and another group is scheduled on
> stage in 15 minutes that you aren't recording, and you have
> to get your stuff out of there...
>
All good...plus: never run a cable 'through' or under something
(cymbal/speaker stand legs, stage risers, etc.) when you can go around it.
The extra time/cable involved will be paid back at the end of the night,
when you're *not* having to fish snagged connectors out of tight places.

jak

[jakdedert]

T Maki wrote:
> Carey Carlan wrote:
>>
>>> 6. Set up with strike in mind. You've almost always got the
>>> luxury of time before the show. Almost never afterwards.
>
>> Here you lose me. Can you elaborate.
>
> Try to think through the set up as far ahead as possible. If
> you have the luxury of seeing the venue in rehearsal, forget
> about basking in the glorious sound of the room, clapping
> your hands and snapping you fingers, and putting on the
> impression that you're some kind of "recording engineer"
> (not that you do that). Get a general feel for the sound,
> and then spend your time hunting down the most efficient way
> to run your cables, finding power outlets (especially ones
> that work or are not on the breaker with the coffee pot for
> the after-show reception) and whether or not those outlets
> have three holes (your ground lift adapter will always be in
> the case you left behind unless you carry one in every case
> you own as I learned to do years ago), and what your
> alternatives are in case the house manager (or other person
> who will declare that "you can't set those there") declares
> that "you can't set those there." Get in as early as
> possible. Make arrangements if you can with the director of
> the show to get you in early. If you can't get in early, you
> just have to develop a sense to sniff out the outlets, etc.
> I've been doing this kind of work for nearly 30 years in
> many places in this country and overseas, and I've developed
> that sense. After the show, your time is limited because
> everybody wants to get out of there. You will not be
> appreciated if your strike puts the maintenance person on
> overtime. He/she will love it, but either the group or the
> house is paying for it, and if you work with the kinds of
> groups I've worked over the years, your spending their money
> for them may wind up costing YOU (what is the sound of a
> telephone not ringing...?) And, of course, if you're setting
> up in a festival situation and another group is scheduled on
> stage in 15 minutes that you aren't recording, and you have
> to get your stuff out of there...
>
All good...plus: never run a cable 'through' or under something
(cymbal/speaker stand legs, stage risers, etc.) when you can go around it.
The extra time/cable involved will be paid back at the end of the night,
when you're *not* having to fish snagged connectors out of tight places.

jak

[hollywood_steve]

Carey Carlan > wrote in message >...
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

Becasue of the type of work I do, mostly small jazz combos or small
classical ensembles, I have the reverse problem. I have mostly
unlimited time after the session, but I am almost always running flat
out prior to the start of the session. (for live performance
sessions) There is almost always some kind of constraint that limits
how early I can get into the room, and it seems to never be more than
2 hours prior to the start of the performance. At the end of the
night, the only reason to hurry things along is typically a single
member of the facilities staff, and he's usually happy to earn an
extra hour of overtime as I calmly coil my cables. But I can't count
how many times I have pressed "record" without even having had the
chance to mutter "testing" into any of the mics.

The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.

The other things that kill huge amounts of time on the front end
include the need to tape down a large percentage of cable runs. I
seem to always need to run mic cables along the edge of a seating
aisle. That means that every person in every row of seats has to
cross my cables to exit their seats. And that means taping pretty
much every inch of cable. Then there is the labor intensive work of
mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.

Anyway, my idea of a great gig is one where I am allowed to load in 4
or 5 hours before showtime. Can't remember the last time that
happened.....

steve

[hollywood_steve]

Carey Carlan > wrote in message >...
> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>
> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.

Becasue of the type of work I do, mostly small jazz combos or small
classical ensembles, I have the reverse problem. I have mostly
unlimited time after the session, but I am almost always running flat
out prior to the start of the session. (for live performance
sessions) There is almost always some kind of constraint that limits
how early I can get into the room, and it seems to never be more than
2 hours prior to the start of the performance. At the end of the
night, the only reason to hurry things along is typically a single
member of the facilities staff, and he's usually happy to earn an
extra hour of overtime as I calmly coil my cables. But I can't count
how many times I have pressed "record" without even having had the
chance to mutter "testing" into any of the mics.

The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.

The other things that kill huge amounts of time on the front end
include the need to tape down a large percentage of cable runs. I
seem to always need to run mic cables along the edge of a seating
aisle. That means that every person in every row of seats has to
cross my cables to exit their seats. And that means taping pretty
much every inch of cable. Then there is the labor intensive work of
mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.

Anyway, my idea of a great gig is one where I am allowed to load in 4
or 5 hours before showtime. Can't remember the last time that
happened.....

steve

[Logan Shaw]

hollywood_steve wrote:
> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
> me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
> at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
> assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
> car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
> that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.

Well, dare I say it? How about EDAC connectors or some other kind
of (smaller) multiway things?

With a proper wiring scheme, that could be just as flexible as what
you have now, but a zillion times easier to hook up. The wiring
scheme I'm envisioning (perhaps overkill) would be to have everything
on the back of every component in all the other racks go into big
multiway cables, then have the multiway cable wend their way to a
central rack with a giant patch panel (or two) in it. You could
leave patch cables attached to the patch panel when you close the
rack, so that you could have a standard wiring configuration already
in place before you even get to the gig.

Not that it'd be a small task to put it all together...

- Logan

[Logan Shaw]

hollywood_steve wrote:
> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
> me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
> at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
> assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
> car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
> that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.

Well, dare I say it? How about EDAC connectors or some other kind
of (smaller) multiway things?

With a proper wiring scheme, that could be just as flexible as what
you have now, but a zillion times easier to hook up. The wiring
scheme I'm envisioning (perhaps overkill) would be to have everything
on the back of every component in all the other racks go into big
multiway cables, then have the multiway cable wend their way to a
central rack with a giant patch panel (or two) in it. You could
leave patch cables attached to the patch panel when you close the
rack, so that you could have a standard wiring configuration already
in place before you even get to the gig.

Not that it'd be a small task to put it all together...

- Logan

[John La Grou]

On 19 Nov 2004 21:57:04 -0800, (hollywood_steve) wrote:

>Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
>mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
>these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
>ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
>minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
>almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.


Ever try to rig a pair of AEA R84's in Blumlein? Experience in
plumbing is helpful.

[John La Grou]

On 19 Nov 2004 21:57:04 -0800, (hollywood_steve) wrote:

>Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
>mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
>these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
>ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
>minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
>almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.


Ever try to rig a pair of AEA R84's in Blumlein? Experience in
plumbing is helpful.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> All good...plus: never run a cable 'through' or under something
> (cymbal/speaker stand legs, stage risers, etc.) when you can go around it.

Related to this, don't put one empty case on top of another. You'll
need the one on the bottom first. Also, don't leave any open cases or
lids with the open end up. Someone will think it's a trash can. You
don't want to find half a cup of cold coffee spilled in the bottom of
your processor rack case when you have the rack half into the case.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> All good...plus: never run a cable 'through' or under something
> (cymbal/speaker stand legs, stage risers, etc.) when you can go around it.

Related to this, don't put one empty case on top of another. You'll
need the one on the bottom first. Also, don't leave any open cases or
lids with the open end up. Someone will think it's a trash can. You
don't want to find half a cup of cold coffee spilled in the bottom of
your processor rack case when you have the rack half into the case.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use.

Given that "not practical" can mean "costs a grand or so" I can
appreciate your situation, but a practical approach to quick setup
with multiple boxes is to make snakes with multi-pin connectors to
interconnect them. That way you can still carry manageable loads, but
rather than plugging in 64 individual cables (and possibly switch a
couple around) you can plug in four and know that they're connected
the way you expect them to be connected. This is a lot of work and
cables and connectors are expensive, but it can make for a very
smooth-working and reliable system.

A friend of mine who used to work like that (today he's a well known
mastering engineer and stays home) said he had close to 1/3 the cost
of his gear invested in cables and cases, but the time it saved was
worth it in the end. In venues where staying an extra hour to pack up
involves more than one person staying later (like the union crew of
four stage hands), the client (or you) has to pay for them, and that
can add up fast if you work very much.

He had one case that was just patchbays, with one snake going to the
rack that was just signal processors. Connecting one cable brought up
all his processors right where he expected to find them. Another cable
from the patchbay rack went to the multitrack recorder (a DA-88 at the
time). He modified his mixer (this was before the day of outboard
preamps) with one multi-pin connector going to the stage snake and
another one going to the patchbay rack. And so on. One case held the
interconnecting snakes.

> Anyway, my idea of a great gig is one where I am allowed to load in 4
> or 5 hours before showtime. Can't remember the last time that
> happened.....

Who pays for those hours? Probably you, as most people who hire you
see a price for the job (which may be related to how long the
performance is), not a price per hour.

The thing that pains me about breakdown is that there's usually plenty
of help around when I can't use it (as soon as the show is over) as I
need to do things myself. And by the time things are ready to be toted
back to the car, all the helpful volunteers have gone. My solution was
to build a remote truck so I didn't have to take anything into the
venue but cables, mics, and stands, but that was still quite a
handful.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use.

Given that "not practical" can mean "costs a grand or so" I can
appreciate your situation, but a practical approach to quick setup
with multiple boxes is to make snakes with multi-pin connectors to
interconnect them. That way you can still carry manageable loads, but
rather than plugging in 64 individual cables (and possibly switch a
couple around) you can plug in four and know that they're connected
the way you expect them to be connected. This is a lot of work and
cables and connectors are expensive, but it can make for a very
smooth-working and reliable system.

A friend of mine who used to work like that (today he's a well known
mastering engineer and stays home) said he had close to 1/3 the cost
of his gear invested in cables and cases, but the time it saved was
worth it in the end. In venues where staying an extra hour to pack up
involves more than one person staying later (like the union crew of
four stage hands), the client (or you) has to pay for them, and that
can add up fast if you work very much.

He had one case that was just patchbays, with one snake going to the
rack that was just signal processors. Connecting one cable brought up
all his processors right where he expected to find them. Another cable
from the patchbay rack went to the multitrack recorder (a DA-88 at the
time). He modified his mixer (this was before the day of outboard
preamps) with one multi-pin connector going to the stage snake and
another one going to the patchbay rack. And so on. One case held the
interconnecting snakes.

> Anyway, my idea of a great gig is one where I am allowed to load in 4
> or 5 hours before showtime. Can't remember the last time that
> happened.....

Who pays for those hours? Probably you, as most people who hire you
see a price for the job (which may be related to how long the
performance is), not a price per hour.

The thing that pains me about breakdown is that there's usually plenty
of help around when I can't use it (as soon as the show is over) as I
need to do things myself. And by the time things are ready to be toted
back to the car, all the helpful volunteers have gone. My solution was
to build a remote truck so I didn't have to take anything into the
venue but cables, mics, and stands, but that was still quite a
handful.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Dale Farmer]

hollywood_steve wrote:

> Carey Carlan > wrote in message >...
> > What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
> >
> > I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.
>
> Becasue of the type of work I do, mostly small jazz combos or small
> classical ensembles, I have the reverse problem. I have mostly
> unlimited time after the session, but I am almost always running flat
> out prior to the start of the session. (for live performance
> sessions) There is almost always some kind of constraint that limits
> how early I can get into the room, and it seems to never be more than
> 2 hours prior to the start of the performance. At the end of the
> night, the only reason to hurry things along is typically a single
> member of the facilities staff, and he's usually happy to earn an
> extra hour of overtime as I calmly coil my cables. But I can't count
> how many times I have pressed "record" without even having had the
> chance to mutter "testing" into any of the mics.
>
> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
> me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
> at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
> assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
> car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
> that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.
>

Multi-pin interconnect cables, as others have mentioned, will help
here. An intermediate stage is to bring out all the back panel
connections on the gear in the case you usually use to a strip of
XLR connectors. Then buy a number of short XLR snake cables
and clearly label the back of each panel with where it connects
to on the next box. colors and large friendly numbers that match
the labels on the snakes that can be read by a helper in dim light
are indicated. A nicely laid out diagram of your usual layout of
your boxes go, with signal and power diagrams on the subsequent
pages, that you can hand off to a helper to start building your
home base helps. Have many copies of this, and expect to
lose them. Large friendly labels on the rack cases, indicating
front/back/this end up. Labels on the rack covers so that they
go back home faster during tear down.
Organize your boxes so that they all are in signal path order.
All the pre's in one box, and so on, mixer, effects rack, recorder.
One end of each of these snakes stays plugged into the back of it's
home box, and stores inside the back. If you find yourself
using an adapter with a cable a lot, buy or make the correct
cable so you don't need the adapter anymore.
If you do a lot of stereo recording, then two channel snake
cables with XLR5 or XLR6 connector will save you time.


> The other things that kill huge amounts of time on the front end
> include the need to tape down a large percentage of cable runs. I
> seem to always need to run mic cables along the edge of a seating
> aisle. That means that every person in every row of seats has to
> cross my cables to exit their seats. And that means taping pretty
> much every inch of cable. Then there is the labor intensive work of
> mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
> stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
> mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
> these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
> ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
> minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
> almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.
>

A storage box that is custom shaped to hold the fully assembled
thing may be indicated here. This is for anything that takes lots of
fiddly bits or easy to lose little screws or assembly time. If it
have to have it in pieces, buy a few spare screws and put them in
a spot that you can easily reach when you drop one during assembly.
Just making a slice into the foam of the storage case and tucking
the spare screws there works for me. If you need a screwdriver
or other hand tool to assemble a thing, buy an extra and include
it in the storage box. That five minutes while you go to the tool
box and find it each gig adds up.

Have a friend with a stopwatch watch you setup your rig in
the garage someday. Any single task you spend more than
about five minutes doing is something you want to put some
thought into simplifying.

--Dale

[Dale Farmer]

hollywood_steve wrote:

> Carey Carlan > wrote in message >...
> > What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
> >
> > I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.
>
> Becasue of the type of work I do, mostly small jazz combos or small
> classical ensembles, I have the reverse problem. I have mostly
> unlimited time after the session, but I am almost always running flat
> out prior to the start of the session. (for live performance
> sessions) There is almost always some kind of constraint that limits
> how early I can get into the room, and it seems to never be more than
> 2 hours prior to the start of the performance. At the end of the
> night, the only reason to hurry things along is typically a single
> member of the facilities staff, and he's usually happy to earn an
> extra hour of overtime as I calmly coil my cables. But I can't count
> how many times I have pressed "record" without even having had the
> chance to mutter "testing" into any of the mics.
>
> The only obvious ways that I can see to save time on the front end are
> not practical for me at this point. They include mounting my entire
> location rig in a single large (20ru) rack, instead of the three, four
> or five 4RU racks I currently use. Using one large rack would allow
> me to have all of the inter-equipment wiring in-place before arriving
> at the gig. But this would require some kind of truck or van and an
> assistant. I'm still a one man army and I usually rent a basic econo
> car for gigs. Having all of my gear in manageable 4RU racks means
> that there is nothing I can't handle by myself.
>

Multi-pin interconnect cables, as others have mentioned, will help
here. An intermediate stage is to bring out all the back panel
connections on the gear in the case you usually use to a strip of
XLR connectors. Then buy a number of short XLR snake cables
and clearly label the back of each panel with where it connects
to on the next box. colors and large friendly numbers that match
the labels on the snakes that can be read by a helper in dim light
are indicated. A nicely laid out diagram of your usual layout of
your boxes go, with signal and power diagrams on the subsequent
pages, that you can hand off to a helper to start building your
home base helps. Have many copies of this, and expect to
lose them. Large friendly labels on the rack cases, indicating
front/back/this end up. Labels on the rack covers so that they
go back home faster during tear down.
Organize your boxes so that they all are in signal path order.
All the pre's in one box, and so on, mixer, effects rack, recorder.
One end of each of these snakes stays plugged into the back of it's
home box, and stores inside the back. If you find yourself
using an adapter with a cable a lot, buy or make the correct
cable so you don't need the adapter anymore.
If you do a lot of stereo recording, then two channel snake
cables with XLR5 or XLR6 connector will save you time.


> The other things that kill huge amounts of time on the front end
> include the need to tape down a large percentage of cable runs. I
> seem to always need to run mic cables along the edge of a seating
> aisle. That means that every person in every row of seats has to
> cross my cables to exit their seats. And that means taping pretty
> much every inch of cable. Then there is the labor intensive work of
> mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
> stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
> mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
> these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
> ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
> minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
> almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.
>

A storage box that is custom shaped to hold the fully assembled
thing may be indicated here. This is for anything that takes lots of
fiddly bits or easy to lose little screws or assembly time. If it
have to have it in pieces, buy a few spare screws and put them in
a spot that you can easily reach when you drop one during assembly.
Just making a slice into the foam of the storage case and tucking
the spare screws there works for me. If you need a screwdriver
or other hand tool to assemble a thing, buy an extra and include
it in the storage box. That five minutes while you go to the tool
box and find it each gig adds up.

Have a friend with a stopwatch watch you setup your rig in
the garage someday. Any single task you spend more than
about five minutes doing is something you want to put some
thought into simplifying.

--Dale

[Carey Carlan]

(hollywood_steve) wrote in
om:

> Then there is the labor intensive work of
> mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
> stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
> mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
> these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
> ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
> minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
> almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.

My solution to that is to mount every mic into its shock mount (all my mics
are shock mounted during use, drop it in a ziplock plastic bag with a
desiccant, and put half a dozen of those in a foam lined 4-pistol case.

The mics arrive intact, clean, dry, and in their shock mounts. If I toss
in three stereo bars, all I need is a stand and a cable to start hanging
mics.

[Carey Carlan]

(hollywood_steve) wrote in
om:

> Then there is the labor intensive work of
> mounting certain mics in their mounts and those mounts onto mic
> stands. Anybody familiar with the AEA 4038SA mount for Coles 4038
> mics knows that somebody needs to come up with a better way to secure
> these mics. Twisting in those little hex head bolts into the swivel
> ring of the 4038, while holding the 5lb mic in your other hand for 10
> minutes, while 4 different people are asking you to hurry up......its
> almost enough to make me want to mic everybody with a box full of 57s.

My solution to that is to mount every mic into its shock mount (all my mics
are shock mounted during use, drop it in a ziplock plastic bag with a
desiccant, and put half a dozen of those in a foam lined 4-pistol case.

The mics arrive intact, clean, dry, and in their shock mounts. If I toss
in three stereo bars, all I need is a stand and a cable to start hanging
mics.

[Richard Edmondson]

"Lars Farm" > wrote in message
news:1gnh06j.dmink97pbti2N%mail.addr.can.be.found@ www.farm.se...
> Logan Shaw > wrote:
>
>> you can twist
>> one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
>> loop.
>
>> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
>> without being able to be visual.
>
> Thanks! That'll take some practice...
>
> Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
> for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts. Not just audio cables. Power
> cables, computer cables, any cable or any string or anything remotely
> resembling a piece of string of any length automatically turns into a
> monstrous knot. Sometimes even before I touch it...
>
> Lars
>


This might be a little easier to follow:

http://www.rmmpnet.org/members/edmondsr/cablewrap.avi

[Richard Edmondson]

"Lars Farm" > wrote in message
news:1gnh06j.dmink97pbti2N%mail.addr.can.be.found@ www.farm.se...
> Logan Shaw > wrote:
>
>> you can twist
>> one direction for one loop and then other direction for the next
>> loop.
>
>> Boy, hope that makes sense. It's hard to explain all that stuff
>> without being able to be visual.
>
> Thanks! That'll take some practice...
>
> Maybe, just maybe this will change my life... I have a special talent
> for messing up cables. Cables of all sorts. Not just audio cables. Power
> cables, computer cables, any cable or any string or anything remotely
> resembling a piece of string of any length automatically turns into a
> monstrous knot. Sometimes even before I touch it...
>
> Lars
>


This might be a little easier to follow:

http://www.rmmpnet.org/members/edmondsr/cablewrap.avi

[Richard Crowley]

I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
(50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
other as I wind and it makes setup and breakdown significantly
faster and easier. Only major hangup is people trying to "help"
by winding up cables the traditional way.

[Richard Crowley]

I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
(50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
other as I wind and it makes setup and breakdown significantly
faster and easier. Only major hangup is people trying to "help"
by winding up cables the traditional way.

[Craig Bennett]

>This might be a little easier to follow:
>
>http://www.rmmpnet.org/members/edmondsr/cablewrap.avi
>

Sweet!

[Craig Bennett]

>This might be a little easier to follow:
>
>http://www.rmmpnet.org/members/edmondsr/cablewrap.avi
>

Sweet!

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
> and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
> cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
> (50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
> other as I wind

I tried one of those but found that with two XLRs plugged together,
the stiff lump was long enough so that the cable was stressed more
than I liked it when would anywhere near the center of the reel. Those
are nice for one 100 foot mic cable, but not for ten 10 foot ones.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
> and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
> cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
> (50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
> other as I wind

I tried one of those but found that with two XLRs plugged together,
the stiff lump was long enough so that the cable was stressed more
than I liked it when would anywhere near the center of the reel. Those
are nice for one 100 foot mic cable, but not for ten 10 foot ones.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1101053177k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
>> I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
>> and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
>> cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
>> (50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
>> other as I wind
>
> I tried one of those but found that with two XLRs plugged together,
> the stiff lump was long enough so that the cable was stressed more
> than I liked it when would anywhere near the center of the reel. Those
> are nice for one 100 foot mic cable, but not for ten 10 foot ones.

Yes. All my mic cables are 50 or 100 ft. The reel solution is NOT
suitable for short cables. I just coil those and put them in the short
XLR cable case.

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1101053177k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
>> I use those orange plastic reels that are sold in hardware stores
>> and home improvement places. They are designed for AC extention
>> cords, but I use them for mic and speaker cable, and for my longer
>> (50 & 100 ft) BNC RG-59 cables. I just plug the cables into each
>> other as I wind
>
> I tried one of those but found that with two XLRs plugged together,
> the stiff lump was long enough so that the cable was stressed more
> than I liked it when would anywhere near the center of the reel. Those
> are nice for one 100 foot mic cable, but not for ten 10 foot ones.

Yes. All my mic cables are 50 or 100 ft. The reel solution is NOT
suitable for short cables. I just coil those and put them in the short
XLR cable case.

[ScotFraser]

<< It's easier to recall colors than
to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
corner. >>

Not if you're color blind, or when the stage is awash in a heavily saturated
blue.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< It's easier to recall colors than
to try to read numbers on cable labels in a dark, back-stage
corner. >>

Not if you're color blind, or when the stage is awash in a heavily saturated
blue.


Scott Fraser

[james of tucson]

On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:

> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)

What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

[james of tucson]

On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:

> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)

What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

[ScotFraser]

<< > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)>>

<<What's wrong with this? >><BR><BR>

It's grounds for dismissal in any pro organization. Not only does it make a
mess of the coil, which slows down the next set up that cable is needed for, it
also subjects the cable to repeated tight bends which is an unnecessary wear &
tear on the conductors.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)>>

<<What's wrong with this? >><BR><BR>

It's grounds for dismissal in any pro organization. Not only does it make a
mess of the coil, which slows down the next set up that cable is needed for, it
also subjects the cable to repeated tight bends which is an unnecessary wear &
tear on the conductors.

Scott Fraser

[T Maki]

Whatever works for you.

You coil one of my cables that way, and you're fired :-)

I've got thousands of feet of cable that have never had to
be repaired or replaced because of the misery inflicted on
them from improper wrapping.

Have you ever seen the long-term effects of thumb-and-elbow
wrap on an extension cord? Did you ever try to throw out a
100' length of cable coiled like that? Try it sometime. It
will become quite evident why it is an inferior technique.



TM


james of tucson wrote:
>
> On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:
>
> > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)
>
> What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
> unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
> I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
> as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

[T Maki]

Whatever works for you.

You coil one of my cables that way, and you're fired :-)

I've got thousands of feet of cable that have never had to
be repaired or replaced because of the misery inflicted on
them from improper wrapping.

Have you ever seen the long-term effects of thumb-and-elbow
wrap on an extension cord? Did you ever try to throw out a
100' length of cable coiled like that? Try it sometime. It
will become quite evident why it is an inferior technique.



TM


james of tucson wrote:
>
> On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:
>
> > more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)
>
> What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
> unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
> I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
> as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

[Carey Carlan]

james of tucson > wrote in
atory.com:

> On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:
>
>> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)
>
> What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
> unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
> I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
> as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

Because each loop introduces a twist in the cable. Enough such twists and
the cable won't lay straight ever again.

[Carey Carlan]

james of tucson > wrote in
atory.com:

> On 2004-11-18, T Maki > wrote:
>
>> more common thumb-and-elbow technique (God forbid)
>
> What's wrong with this? It makes a nice standard cubit-length
> unit, perfect for the ammo boxes I carry my cables in. Not that
> I want anyone else doing it. (I've got as much invested in *cables*
> as any one of my keyboards, piano doesn't count.)

Because each loop introduces a twist in the cable. Enough such twists and
the cable won't lay straight ever again.

[hank alrich]

Don Richardson wrote:

> (2) all other XLR cables spool onto plastic cable reels ($12 at the
> hardware store)--there's one for short, and one for long cables

Caveat: in near-zero F temps, those can shatter if dropped.

--
ha

[[email protected]]

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:26:08 GMT
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On 2004-11-20 said:
>Have a friend with a stopwatch watch you setup your rig in
>the garage someday. Any single task you spend more than
>about five minutes doing is something you want to put some
>thought into simplifying.
Amen brother! sInce my lady has to drive for this old blind man for
either remote sound gigs one man shows or recording on location gigs
I've got her pretty well trained to get up the control position while
I do such chores as taping down cables, positioning speaker
microphones etc. WE usually start before we even load the van to go
to the gig by having her make a block diagram of what connects to
waht.

eventually I plan to have some snakes made up for such things as
signal processing, synth rack etc. which will make them easier and
modular. oNe thing that handicapped me a bit was my main amp rack, a
14 spacer. wAs actually looking for two tens as I could lug two tens
easier on a handtruck whereas the fourteen even on its caster wheels
is a pita to load in the van. IF you're trying to do it one man on
the street the wheels try to kick the bottom end out as you're trying
to get under it to load it into the van. AT the venue if there's a
wheelchair ramp we just pull the van up the ramp as far as we can and
I roll the rack down and in.

My synths rack is a ten space and I'm preparing to build another ten
space for signal processing, that will help on sr gigs as well as
recording dates. I've started a file of block diagrams of different
setups so that if we're doing a direct to dat only I can pull out the
correct block diagrams for her. SAme with an SR setup. ONe-man band
I have her do less actually as control and everything else is onstage.
sHE does more good there schmoozing with the club owner and the paying
punters and doing such things as buying the burly fellow at the bar a
libation of his choice so he'll help me hoist the speakers onto their
stands. I'm a short guy only about 5 ft. 3 and about 140 lb with my
pockets full so it's an adventure to try that one solo. OTher
technique is to put a stepladder on a four top table and stand on the
table, heft the speaker then get on the ladder.


Did a gospel thing about a month ago where I'd injured myself at a
band gig the night before, outdoor festival and backstage area was
much too dark for all the people hustling and bustling around. Hence
I tripped over a hand truck lying on the ground. Since that caused me
to have a bum knee I had the event organizer draft some bodies to help
with tear down. I instructed helpers to just get gera that was ready
out to the van, I'd load it from there. I of course had to get my
microphones packed away before they grew legs and get talents' mics he
brought into their cases and gone. Almost had too much help for that
one.

I always try to work with an eye toward what's going to be easier for
breaking down and getting out within a reasonable length of time.
Means I might use a little more cable than the old shortest distance
between two points bit, or I might be striking unneeded equipment as
soon as it's no longer necessary.

I used to do recordings for transcription and for those who couldn't
make meetings for an organization of the blind back in IOwa. THis was
always a real joy because convention sessions got out at five
according to the agenda but often ran later. OFten I'd have to
transport mixer recorders and mics to another room, and of course
speakers if the venue had no decent sr system. OF course in the back
of the banquet room would be the hospitality bar and the attitude
adjustment hour at six and banquet starting at seven. I'd need to
have podium microphone; door prize person's microphone; and of course
two mics on table stands. tHis meant I was never in formal attire for
the banquets of course <g>.

I'd usually explain to venue staff on these occasions that though I
had a ticket for eating the rubber chicken I'd just as soon eat my
rubber chicken in my out of the way corner at the sound board so I
could start and stop the recorderr(s) when necessary. OF course then
we had to set up again for Sunday morning meetings in regular theater
style convention seating with audience mics in the aisles etc. etc.

THese days with the system I have now it would be much easier,
especially with lady love to do config work back at mixer.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

[[email protected]]

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:26:08 EST
Organization: BellSouth Internet Group
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:26:08 GMT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1126155


On 2004-11-20 said:
>Have a friend with a stopwatch watch you setup your rig in
>the garage someday. Any single task you spend more than
>about five minutes doing is something you want to put some
>thought into simplifying.
Amen brother! sInce my lady has to drive for this old blind man for
either remote sound gigs one man shows or recording on location gigs
I've got her pretty well trained to get up the control position while
I do such chores as taping down cables, positioning speaker
microphones etc. WE usually start before we even load the van to go
to the gig by having her make a block diagram of what connects to
waht.

eventually I plan to have some snakes made up for such things as
signal processing, synth rack etc. which will make them easier and
modular. oNe thing that handicapped me a bit was my main amp rack, a
14 spacer. wAs actually looking for two tens as I could lug two tens
easier on a handtruck whereas the fourteen even on its caster wheels
is a pita to load in the van. IF you're trying to do it one man on
the street the wheels try to kick the bottom end out as you're trying
to get under it to load it into the van. AT the venue if there's a
wheelchair ramp we just pull the van up the ramp as far as we can and
I roll the rack down and in.

My synths rack is a ten space and I'm preparing to build another ten
space for signal processing, that will help on sr gigs as well as
recording dates. I've started a file of block diagrams of different
setups so that if we're doing a direct to dat only I can pull out the
correct block diagrams for her. SAme with an SR setup. ONe-man band
I have her do less actually as control and everything else is onstage.
sHE does more good there schmoozing with the club owner and the paying
punters and doing such things as buying the burly fellow at the bar a
libation of his choice so he'll help me hoist the speakers onto their
stands. I'm a short guy only about 5 ft. 3 and about 140 lb with my
pockets full so it's an adventure to try that one solo. OTher
technique is to put a stepladder on a four top table and stand on the
table, heft the speaker then get on the ladder.


Did a gospel thing about a month ago where I'd injured myself at a
band gig the night before, outdoor festival and backstage area was
much too dark for all the people hustling and bustling around. Hence
I tripped over a hand truck lying on the ground. Since that caused me
to have a bum knee I had the event organizer draft some bodies to help
with tear down. I instructed helpers to just get gera that was ready
out to the van, I'd load it from there. I of course had to get my
microphones packed away before they grew legs and get talents' mics he
brought into their cases and gone. Almost had too much help for that
one.

I always try to work with an eye toward what's going to be easier for
breaking down and getting out within a reasonable length of time.
Means I might use a little more cable than the old shortest distance
between two points bit, or I might be striking unneeded equipment as
soon as it's no longer necessary.

I used to do recordings for transcription and for those who couldn't
make meetings for an organization of the blind back in IOwa. THis was
always a real joy because convention sessions got out at five
according to the agenda but often ran later. OFten I'd have to
transport mixer recorders and mics to another room, and of course
speakers if the venue had no decent sr system. OF course in the back
of the banquet room would be the hospitality bar and the attitude
adjustment hour at six and banquet starting at seven. I'd need to
have podium microphone; door prize person's microphone; and of course
two mics on table stands. tHis meant I was never in formal attire for
the banquets of course <g>.

I'd usually explain to venue staff on these occasions that though I
had a ticket for eating the rubber chicken I'd just as soon eat my
rubber chicken in my out of the way corner at the sound board so I
could start and stop the recorderr(s) when necessary. OF course then
we had to set up again for Sunday morning meetings in regular theater
style convention seating with audience mics in the aisles etc. etc.

THese days with the system I have now it would be much easier,
especially with lady love to do config work back at mixer.




Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

[GP]

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:56:25 -0600, "jakdedert"
> wrote:

>Carey Carlan wrote:
>> What are your tricks for fast breakdown after a location gig?
>>
>> I find most of my time is spent collecting cables.
>
>Good tips below in the thread.
>
>One of my favorites is to never coil excess mic cords by the drum snake. If
>at all possible, merely pull the exess into a single single loop behind the
>riser. Sure it doesn't look as pretty as nicely coiled up cables, but when
>you go to re-coil it, it won't tangle either. Besides, it can be fairly
>neatly laid out behind the riser; and nobody's gonna see it except the
>drummer anyway...he doesn't count.
>
>All of the above is assuming that you don't already have a pre-made drum
>loom....
>
>jak
>
In Just A few words from a pro. . . .many tours . . . .now I own my
own my own Audio Visual Production Company. . . .Wheels on cases.. . .
..learn the ZEN of CABLE WRAPPING (It canbe very relaxing to just wrap
cables. . over/ under/over /under. . . .The Pro Way NO Plasic thingys.
you can get very fast at it. Lastly . . . .Sub snakes !! I love sub
snakes because you wrap ONE 8 pair cable . . . You just wrapped 8
cables!!! GP