In-line mike preamp

[normanstrong]

What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.
The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries, have a
1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
plug on the other end. It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

If it already exists, would someone please direct me to it.

Thanks,

Norm Strong

[Kurt Albershardt]

normanstrong wrote:
> What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
> with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.

Fixed gain would not work for many situations depending on the levels involved.



> The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries

That's going to limit your output level and lower your S/N unless you use a DC-DC converter to drive the opamp (not likely at that price.)



> 1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
> plug on the other end. It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
> mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
> particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

<http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP> but the price is higher than you want. They did have some closeouts of an earlier version awhile back.

[Kurt Albershardt]

normanstrong wrote:
> What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
> with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.

Fixed gain would not work for many situations depending on the levels involved.



> The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries

That's going to limit your output level and lower your S/N unless you use a DC-DC converter to drive the opamp (not likely at that price.)



> 1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
> plug on the other end. It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
> mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
> particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

<http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP> but the price is higher than you want. They did have some closeouts of an earlier version awhile back.

[Mike Rivers]

In article <4g7ld.89372$R05.33286@attbi_s53> writes:

> What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
> with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.
> The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries, have a
> 1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
> plug on the other end.

Say NO to mini jacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sanken has an in-line preamp that's designed for ribbon mics, 20 or
40 dB gain as I recall, phantom powered, mono, XLR connectors.

> It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
> mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
> particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

I hate to sound like an audio snob, but you're describing a toy
accessory for a toy. While I'd like to have something like that (only
with XLR inputs) for my Jukebox 3, I don't figure that one that only
costs $100 is going to be significantly better and more trouble than
just switching it to mic input and taking the noise along with the
gain.

You might find something like this on a "taper resource" place like
Oade.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article <4g7ld.89372$R05.33286@attbi_s53> writes:

> What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
> with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.
> The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries, have a
> 1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
> plug on the other end.

Say NO to mini jacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sanken has an in-line preamp that's designed for ribbon mics, 20 or
40 dB gain as I recall, phantom powered, mono, XLR connectors.

> It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
> mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
> particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

I hate to sound like an audio snob, but you're describing a toy
accessory for a toy. While I'd like to have something like that (only
with XLR inputs) for my Jukebox 3, I don't figure that one that only
costs $100 is going to be significantly better and more trouble than
just switching it to mic input and taking the noise along with the
gain.

You might find something like this on a "taper resource" place like
Oade.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Bob Cain]

Sugarite wrote:
>>What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
>>with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.
>>The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries, have a
>>1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
>>plug on the other end. It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
>>mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
>>particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.
>>
>>If it already exists, would someone please direct me to it.
>
>
> Radio Shack Boosteroo, designed for boosting headphone levels, replace male
> input plug with female jack and use it backwards.
>
> For better results in that price range, buy two used DOD mosfet preamp
> pedals at around $25-30 each, hack the guts to fit into an appropriate
> smaller case and provide suitable voltage to the mics, it can all run off
> one 9V battery, preferably lithium. It'll sound as good as the preamps
> you'd find in a typical Behringer/Mackie caliber board.

What is the gain and the noise EIN for each of these options?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Bob Cain]

Sugarite wrote:
>>What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
>>with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.
>>The unit I'm imagining would run from a pair of AA batteries, have a
>>1/8" TRS stereo jack for the input, and a cable with the same type
>>plug on the other end. It would have "plug-in power" for low-priced
>>mikes and a gain that could be changed internally to suit the
>>particular mike. It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.
>>
>>If it already exists, would someone please direct me to it.
>
>
> Radio Shack Boosteroo, designed for boosting headphone levels, replace male
> input plug with female jack and use it backwards.
>
> For better results in that price range, buy two used DOD mosfet preamp
> pedals at around $25-30 each, hack the guts to fit into an appropriate
> smaller case and provide suitable voltage to the mics, it can all run off
> one 9V battery, preferably lithium. It'll sound as good as the preamps
> you'd find in a typical Behringer/Mackie caliber board.

What is the gain and the noise EIN for each of these options?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Usenet]

On 14/11/2004 22:44:32, "Sugarite" wrote:

>Radio Shack Boosteroo,

You're just sick...

That thing doesn't even qualify as a headphone amp.

--
m.

[Usenet]

On 14/11/2004 22:44:32, "Sugarite" wrote:

>Radio Shack Boosteroo,

You're just sick...

That thing doesn't even qualify as a headphone amp.

--
m.

[Usenet]

On 12/11/2004 18:27:12, "normanstrong" wrote:
>What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
>with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.

>It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

This is interesting:

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/

Quite a few candidates there :-)

I believe I've also seen his products on an American site...




--
m.

[Usenet]

On 12/11/2004 18:27:12, "normanstrong" wrote:
>What the world needs is a cheap, battery operated stereo mike preamp
>with fixed gain that will goose up a condenser mike to line levels.

>It would be priced somewhere between $50 and $100.

This is interesting:

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/

Quite a few candidates there :-)

I believe I've also seen his products on an American site...




--
m.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Usenet wrote:
>
> This is interesting:
> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/

Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

[Kurt Albershardt]

Usenet wrote:
>
> This is interesting:
> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/

Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

[Bob Cain]

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
> Usenet wrote:
>
>>
>> This is interesting:
>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>
>
> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player
> to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.
I don't know what the serial resistance is, though. Low
enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
from FS line I guess.

It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
are they at all quiet?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Bob Cain]

Kurt Albershardt wrote:
> Usenet wrote:
>
>>
>> This is interesting:
>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>
>
> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player
> to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.
I don't know what the serial resistance is, though. Low
enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
from FS line I guess.

It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
are they at all quiet?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Martin Tillman]

On 16/11/2004 05:52:48, Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
>Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/


>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.

>It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
>still pass on anything close to phantom levels.
>
>Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
>have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
>are they at all quiet?

All excellent questions. Why don't you contact the guy and ask him, or
better still, get some samples to test. Point out the potential demand
(hehe!) and the benefit of publicity to sales.

I reckon he knows exactly what he's doing, and some of his devices are good
enough to be used by the BBC (who, of course, have different requirements
to the typical punter here).

--
m.

[Martin Tillman]

On 16/11/2004 05:52:48, Bob Cain wrote:
>
>
>Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/


>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.

>It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
>still pass on anything close to phantom levels.
>
>Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
>have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
>are they at all quiet?

All excellent questions. Why don't you contact the guy and ask him, or
better still, get some samples to test. Point out the potential demand
(hehe!) and the benefit of publicity to sales.

I reckon he knows exactly what he's doing, and some of his devices are good
enough to be used by the BBC (who, of course, have different requirements
to the typical punter here).

--
m.

[Arny Krueger]

"Bob Cain" > wrote in message

> Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>>
>>
>> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3
>> player to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

> These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
> power a pre from plugin power.

Good point. AFAIK plugin power is usually less than 2 volts with a fairly
high source impedance.

> It's only a couple of volts.

Agreed, and its usually supplied through a series resistor on the order of
1K or more.

> I don't know what the serial resistance is, though.

It's usually designed to power a electret mic capsule. Common series
resistors for those are 1K or more.

> Low enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
> from FS line I guess.

Through the magic of micropower, rail-to-rail op amps...

> It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
> still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Yes, but phantom power is huge in comparison. Minimum would be 12 volts, and
there will be at least a few milliamps available. This is huge compared to
plugin power, especially on the voltage side.

> Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
> have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts?

Check Maxim and ST web sites. Here's an interesting article about some
design features of such products:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/741

Here's a the data sheet candidate device:

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5560.pdf

> If so, are they at all quiet?

If you call 9 uv/sqrt(hz) quiet. Probably good enough for use with electret
mics.

[Arny Krueger]

"Bob Cain" > wrote in message

> Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>>
>>
>> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3
>> player to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...

> These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
> power a pre from plugin power.

Good point. AFAIK plugin power is usually less than 2 volts with a fairly
high source impedance.

> It's only a couple of volts.

Agreed, and its usually supplied through a series resistor on the order of
1K or more.

> I don't know what the serial resistance is, though.

It's usually designed to power a electret mic capsule. Common series
resistors for those are 1K or more.

> Low enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
> from FS line I guess.

Through the magic of micropower, rail-to-rail op amps...

> It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
> still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Yes, but phantom power is huge in comparison. Minimum would be 12 volts, and
there will be at least a few milliamps available. This is huge compared to
plugin power, especially on the voltage side.

> Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
> have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts?

Check Maxim and ST web sites. Here's an interesting article about some
design features of such products:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/741

Here's a the data sheet candidate device:

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/5560.pdf

> If so, are they at all quiet?

If you call 9 uv/sqrt(hz) quiet. Probably good enough for use with electret
mics.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
> have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
> are they at all quiet?

Lots of fleapower parts out there, but they're designed for an
industry where power consumption is of prime importance and audio
quality is way down on the list. Think telephones. (OK, I know you
meant currents of a few hundred microamps).

The trick is to get sufficient output voltage (remember, this is a
preAMPLIFIER) with a low supply voltage. Unless you use an output
transformer or DC-DC converter, you won't get +28 dBu out of a unit
powered from a 3V supply, though it's certainly possible if you have a
48V supply. Given that those of us dreaming of a product like this are
looking for something to boost a microphone up to line level, even
when going into a nominal -10 dBV input that might be calibrated to
a not very conservative +6 dBV for full scale, that's still a bit of a
stretch for a 3V supply.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
> have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
> are they at all quiet?

Lots of fleapower parts out there, but they're designed for an
industry where power consumption is of prime importance and audio
quality is way down on the list. Think telephones. (OK, I know you
meant currents of a few hundred microamps).

The trick is to get sufficient output voltage (remember, this is a
preAMPLIFIER) with a low supply voltage. Unless you use an output
transformer or DC-DC converter, you won't get +28 dBu out of a unit
powered from a 3V supply, though it's certainly possible if you have a
48V supply. Given that those of us dreaming of a product like this are
looking for something to boost a microphone up to line level, even
when going into a nominal -10 dBV input that might be calibrated to
a not very conservative +6 dBV for full scale, that's still a bit of a
stretch for a 3V supply.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Cain > wrote:
>Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>>
>>
>> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player
>> to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...
>
>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.
> I don't know what the serial resistance is, though. Low
>enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
>from FS line I guess.

If you don't need much dynamic range, it's possible. I had to build a
think like that for an intercom system not too long ago, and it was okay
for voice applications.

>It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
>still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Phantom is easy! Phantom voltage is high enough that you can get a reasonable
amount of power out of the thing.

>Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
>have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
>are they at all quiet?

Lots of things will do that if you bias them real far down. They won't
be very linear, but they'll be fine for voice stuff. I think that I used
the classic 2N5457 switching FET since I have a box of them in my desk drawer.
You can get pretty quiet if you select a good one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Cain > wrote:
>Kurt Albershardt wrote:
>> Usenet wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is interesting:
>>> http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/
>>
>>
>> Very interesting. Shouldn't be all that hard to hack up an MP3 player
>> to provide plug-in power on its line input jack...
>
>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.
> I don't know what the serial resistance is, though. Low
>enough and it could be made to deliver levels not to far
>from FS line I guess.

If you don't need much dynamic range, it's possible. I had to build a
think like that for an intercom system not too long ago, and it was okay
for voice applications.

>It's even harder to believe a phantom powered pre that could
>still pass on anything close to phantom levels.

Phantom is easy! Phantom voltage is high enough that you can get a reasonable
amount of power out of the thing.

>Are there any amp parts that need only a couple of volts and
>have quiescent currents of a few hundred microvolts? If so,
>are they at all quiet?

Lots of things will do that if you bias them real far down. They won't
be very linear, but they'll be fine for voice stuff. I think that I used
the classic 2N5457 switching FET since I have a box of them in my desk drawer.
You can get pretty quiet if you select a good one.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Frank Vuotto]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:52:50 -0800, Bob Cain
> wrote:

>

>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.

I recently had a need for a preamp to give 52db gain to a stereo
electret mic into a Sony minidisk recorder line in. I ended up with a
LM387 (old but quiet and I had one). I needed a stealth case so I used
2 mini 6v batteries.

It made me wonder what sort of chip this MD, uses to enable a single
AA battery to drive phones to a decent level with good fidelity as
well as spin the disk and move the head. The battery seems to last
forever.


Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[Frank Vuotto]

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:52:50 -0800, Bob Cain
> wrote:

>

>These are very cool but it's ard to believe that they can
>power a pre from plugin power. It's only a couple of volts.

I recently had a need for a preamp to give 52db gain to a stereo
electret mic into a Sony minidisk recorder line in. I ended up with a
LM387 (old but quiet and I had one). I needed a stealth case so I used
2 mini 6v batteries.

It made me wonder what sort of chip this MD, uses to enable a single
AA battery to drive phones to a decent level with good fidelity as
well as spin the disk and move the head. The battery seems to last
forever.


Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[Micbooster]

Hi, we make these preamps, the 3.5 Series work from plug in power. They
use very specific components in a unique design to provide 20dB of very
low noise gain with low distortion. They are used extensivley by
wildlife recordists who need extra gain on the mic inputs of their
recorders, where of course low noise is very important. The input
impedance is 10k and the output matches the mic input of the recorder.
Current consumption is around 280 microamps.

If I can answer any other questions about our products please do get in
touch.

Nick Roast.