Which mic stand to record live classical?

[bayydogg]

I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
the audience?

[Scott Dorsey]

bayydogg > wrote:
>I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air.

Maybe. That's not very high, but in some rooms it might be right.

>So, which
>mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>from falling down?

It's easiest to hang them once you know where they should be. But there
are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto Highboy up to
the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird boom.

>For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>the audience?

Hanging is about the only way if you truly need to keep sight lines.
One of the nice things about the Jecklin disc is that you can move it
very far forward and it actually is less of a sight problem, even though
it's much larger than just an X-Y pair.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

bayydogg > wrote:
>I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air.

Maybe. That's not very high, but in some rooms it might be right.

>So, which
>mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>from falling down?

It's easiest to hang them once you know where they should be. But there
are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto Highboy up to
the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird boom.

>For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>the audience?

Hanging is about the only way if you truly need to keep sight lines.
One of the nice things about the Jecklin disc is that you can move it
very far forward and it actually is less of a sight problem, even though
it's much larger than just an X-Y pair.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> But there are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto
> Highboy up to the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird
> boom.

I liked that Latchlake stand I saw at AES, with a huge ribbon mic, a
Great River MP1-NV and a bowling ball all hanging off of it with no
apparent stress at the stand. Nifty.

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> But there are plenty of good stands, from the inexpensive Manfrotto
> Highboy up to the heavier Avenger lighting stands, on up to the Starbird
> boom.

I liked that Latchlake stand I saw at AES, with a huge ribbon mic, a
Great River MP1-NV and a bowling ball all hanging off of it with no
apparent stress at the stand. Nifty.

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

On the cheap side, OnStage makes a big boom stand that will go that
high and is fairly stable. I uses toothed wheels in the joints which
will lock tight, but require a bit more effort to get things in the
right place.


On 11 Nov 2004 19:37:25 -0800, (bayydogg)
wrote:

>I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>the audience?

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Willie K.Yee, M.D.]

On the cheap side, OnStage makes a big boom stand that will go that
high and is fairly stable. I uses toothed wheels in the joints which
will lock tight, but require a bit more effort to get things in the
right place.


On 11 Nov 2004 19:37:25 -0800, (bayydogg)
wrote:

>I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>the audience?

Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

[Carey Carlan]

(bayydogg) wrote in
om:

> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

[Carey Carlan]

(bayydogg) wrote in
om:

> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Carey Carlan > wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
om:
>
>> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>> the audience?
>
>I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Carey Carlan > wrote:
(bayydogg) wrote in
om:
>
>> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>> the audience?
>
>I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.

Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
more to carry around).

Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation?

A lot of people use lighting stands. Look in photo stores.

> What to do to prevent this beast from falling down?

Weigh the legs down with sand bags, or shot bags for a more
professional appearance.

> For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to the audience?

It won't be. You'll need to deal with people in order to have a happy
gig. You may not be successful.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation?

A lot of people use lighting stands. Look in photo stores.

> What to do to prevent this beast from falling down?

Weigh the legs down with sand bags, or shot bags for a more
professional appearance.

> For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to the audience?

It won't be. You'll need to deal with people in order to have a happy
gig. You may not be successful.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Karl Winkler]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Carey Carlan > wrote:
> (bayydogg) wrote in
> om:
> >
> >> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> >> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> >> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> >> the audience?
> >
> >I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.
>
> Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
> been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
> more to carry around).
>
> Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
> for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
> though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
> --scott

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

I agree with Scott, though that hanging the mics is much better all
the way around. You can get them higher, and right over the orchestra
if need be (like for the woodwind section "spot pair", etc.) But
rigging them up is a fair amount of work.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

[Karl Winkler]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Carey Carlan > wrote:
> (bayydogg) wrote in
> om:
> >
> >> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> >> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> >> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> >> the audience?
> >
> >I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.
>
> Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
> been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
> more to carry around).
>
> Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
> for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
> though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.
> --scott

The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
though.

I agree with Scott, though that hanging the mics is much better all
the way around. You can get them higher, and right over the orchestra
if need be (like for the woodwind section "spot pair", etc.) But
rigging them up is a fair amount of work.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

[Kurt Albershardt]

Karl Winkler wrote:
>
> The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
> of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
> heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
> lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
> Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
> though.

What he said ;>

Check out the Avenger A410B (which could be had for $140 at one point but with all the currency silliness I don't know what they sell for.)

Then you can add a D600BC boom arm and even a 3669 extension (which works better on the boom than it does on the stand IME.)

[Kurt Albershardt]

Karl Winkler wrote:
>
> The last ones I had from Shure were black, but I was never a big fan
> of the S15. The screws strip out after a while, and they are fairly
> heavy and not all that rigid. I much prefer Matthews or Manfrotto
> lighting stands that I've modified to have the 5/8"/13 threaded tops.
> Light, rigid, quick & easy to set up and nice secure knobs. Not cheap,
> though.

What he said ;>

Check out the Avenger A410B (which could be had for $140 at one point but with all the currency silliness I don't know what they sell for.)

Then you can add a D600BC boom arm and even a 3669 extension (which works better on the boom than it does on the stand IME.)

[Bob Smith]

"bayydogg" > wrote:
> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"bayydogg" > wrote:
> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
worth the effort in security.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Smith > wrote:
>"bayydogg" > wrote:
>> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>> the audience?
>
>Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
>(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
>won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
>worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Smith > wrote:
>"bayydogg" > wrote:
>> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
>> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
>> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
>> the audience?
>
>Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High Boy
>(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
>won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They are
>worth the effort in security.

13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
set up, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bob Smith]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Smith > wrote:
> >"bayydogg" > wrote:
> >> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> >> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> >> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> >> the audience?
> >
> >Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High
Boy
> >(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
> >won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They
are
> >worth the effort in security.
>
> 13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
> with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
> set up, though.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Smith > wrote:
> >"bayydogg" > wrote:
> >> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So, which
> >> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this beast
> >> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> >> the audience?
> >
> >Check out the Manfrotto 3363 - 13 ft air damped. Not as tall as the High
Boy
> >(which has been discontinued I believe) but handles heavier mic rigs and
> >won't come down unexpectedly with a bang. Also invest in sandbags. They
are
> >worth the effort in security.
>
> 13 feet isn't anywhere near tall enough for many halls. I'd sooner go
> with one of the crank-ups. They are a lot heavier and take longer to
> set up, though.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[normanstrong]

"bayydogg" > wrote in message
om...
> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to see
if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you have
the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

Norm Strong

[normanstrong]

"bayydogg" > wrote in message
om...
> I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
which
> mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
beast
> from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive to
> the audience?

Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to see
if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you have
the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

Norm Strong

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Smith > wrote:
>
>True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
>the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
>nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
>have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
>concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen. But for the
most part I use the Highboy unless I am trying to lift a 77DX or something.
If the Highboy isn't being sold, the Avenger is the next step up.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Smith > wrote:
>
>True for the better halls, but sometimes 10-12 feet is all one can get in
>the lesser halls (otherwise called multipurpose rooms, usually good for
>nothing acoustic). Which crank-ups do you use? I think the lighting folks
>have some great stands, though the penalty as you note is weight. For
>concerts with lots of kids running around this can be a very good thing.

I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen. But for the
most part I use the Highboy unless I am trying to lift a 77DX or something.
If the Highboy isn't being sold, the Avenger is the next step up.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen.

Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)


The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.) <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.

There's also the Matthews at 25' <http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029> Holds 7 lbs, weighs 37 lbs.



I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&itemid=419> Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors & stairs.)

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen.

Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)


The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.) <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.

There's also the Matthews at 25' <http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029> Holds 7 lbs, weighs 37 lbs.



I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&itemid=419> Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors & stairs.)

[bayydogg]

I just attended a concert at a hall I've been to before. Last time I
didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

[bayydogg]

I just attended a concert at a hall I've been to before. Last time I
didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.

As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
recording for several decades.

Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
stands, so I know it's not that hard.

He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
recordings?

[Scott Dorsey]

bayydogg > wrote:
>
>As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
>the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
>was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
>there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
>recording for several decades.

This is the tubular thing that replaced the original S15 mount. It is
less sturdy by a long shot than the original S15, and it weighs more to
carry around.

There is a way to secure it, by hanging sand bags on the base. That
really adds to your cartage, though.

>Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
>modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
>stands, so I know it's not that hard.

You should not need to modify it. Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

>He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
>CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
>quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
>to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
>those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
>omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
>recordings?

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

bayydogg > wrote:
>
>As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
>the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
>was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
>there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
>recording for several decades.

This is the tubular thing that replaced the original S15 mount. It is
less sturdy by a long shot than the original S15, and it weighs more to
carry around.

There is a way to secure it, by hanging sand bags on the base. That
really adds to your cartage, though.

>Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
>modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
>stands, so I know it's not that hard.

You should not need to modify it. Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

>He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
>CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
>quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
>to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
>those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
>omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
>recordings?

I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
more of an issue from back there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:cn7qb8$obc$1
@panix2.panix.com:

> I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
> mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
> and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
> but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> more of an issue from back there.

Scott, you and I have opposite philosphies on room noise and mic patterns.

I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:cn7qb8$obc$1
@panix2.panix.com:

> I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
> mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
> and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
> but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> more of an issue from back there.

Scott, you and I have opposite philosphies on room noise and mic patterns.

I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

[Bob Smith]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> more of an issue from back there.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Getting the mics up as high as possible helps the audience noise when using
cardioids pulled back in the room. When the room requires cardioids and can
accomodate 17 ft, I have much less audience noise than when I'm stuck down
at 10 to 12 ft.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> more of an issue from back there.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Getting the mics up as high as possible helps the audience noise when using
cardioids pulled back in the room. When the room requires cardioids and can
accomodate 17 ft, I have much less audience noise than when I'm stuck down
at 10 to 12 ft.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Richard Kuschel]

>didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
>wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
>It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.
>
>As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
>the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
>was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
>there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
>recording for several decades.
>


It's amazing what stability a 20 Lb sandbag can do for stability on a Shure
S15.

It won't tip easily with that much weight at the base.

I also have a Bogen stand with tubular legs that I use a lot and the sandbag
works well on it also.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>didn't notice the mic stand right in front dead center because I
>wasn't looking for it. This time I did notice because I was looking.
>It was chrome and fully extended. The very top leg was leaning.
>
>As it turns out, it was a Shure S15A. After the soundman brought down
>the mics, I noticed the stereo mount with the two B&K omni mics on it
>was quite heavy. He said he always fears that the stand might fall and
>there's no way to secure it, and he's been doing this type of
>recording for several decades.
>


It's amazing what stability a 20 Lb sandbag can do for stability on a Shure
S15.

It won't tip easily with that much weight at the base.

I also have a Bogen stand with tubular legs that I use a lot and the sandbag
works well on it also.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
>CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
>quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
>to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
>those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
>omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
>recordings?
>
>

I use both omnis or cardioids. Which I use depends upon the hall and what I am
recording.

Omnis pointing straight up is moderately weird as the off axis response is not
exactly the same as on- axis response.

Most omnis ( even B&K) exhibit some high frequency directionality at certain
frequencies. Perhaps he was trying to avoid that.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>He let me hear what he recorded and it sounded excellent (Sony
>CDR-W33). Although I didn't hear the soft passages, I know there was
>quite a bit of coughing and other sounds in the audience. I'd prefer
>to use cardioids facing the stage to limit audience noise. But he had
>those omnis pointing straight up (probably doesn't matter if they're
>omnis). Anybody have an opinion about cardioid vs omni in live
>recordings?
>
>

I use both omnis or cardioids. Which I use depends upon the hall and what I am
recording.

Omnis pointing straight up is moderately weird as the off axis response is not
exactly the same as on- axis response.

Most omnis ( even B&K) exhibit some high frequency directionality at certain
frequencies. Perhaps he was trying to avoid that.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Douglas Moran]

In article >,
Carey Carlan > wrote:

> I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
> find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

I performed an experiment last night in an old chapel. The director was
convinced that the mic stand had to be 15-20 tall, and 4 rows back
(think church pews).

So I put my Schoeps 641's 4 rows back, raised the Shure S-15 as high as
it would go. For the experiment, at the front edge of the stage, using
another S-15, I put my AT4053s up ~13'.

This was a 100 voice choir, ~25 feet back from the front edge of the
stage, on risers. Two concert grand pianos in front if them, and
percussion (for Carmina Burana).

End result was lots of the hall on the pulled back mount, poor clarity
on the text (but I don't understand Latin anyway). The close mount was
very clear, good diction, more what I was hearing when I took the
headphones off. Now when the percussion was hammering away, it covered
everything - both recording setups and to the listener in the audience.

I really wondered about using a pair of cardiods rather than
hypercardiods up high, but I didn't want to mess up what the customer
wanted. (The second set, at the front edge of the stage was my idea,
and something I wanted to do.)

And in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy when
extended all the way up.

Doug

[Douglas Moran]

In article >,
Carey Carlan > wrote:

> I get farther back and use my hypercardioids in a bad or noisy room. I
> find that omnis can't get far enough forward to avoid crowd noise.

I performed an experiment last night in an old chapel. The director was
convinced that the mic stand had to be 15-20 tall, and 4 rows back
(think church pews).

So I put my Schoeps 641's 4 rows back, raised the Shure S-15 as high as
it would go. For the experiment, at the front edge of the stage, using
another S-15, I put my AT4053s up ~13'.

This was a 100 voice choir, ~25 feet back from the front edge of the
stage, on risers. Two concert grand pianos in front if them, and
percussion (for Carmina Burana).

End result was lots of the hall on the pulled back mount, poor clarity
on the text (but I don't understand Latin anyway). The close mount was
very clear, good diction, more what I was hearing when I took the
headphones off. Now when the percussion was hammering away, it covered
everything - both recording setups and to the listener in the audience.

I really wondered about using a pair of cardiods rather than
hypercardiods up high, but I didn't want to mess up what the customer
wanted. (The second set, at the front edge of the stage was my idea,
and something I wanted to do.)

And in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy when
extended all the way up.

Doug

[normanstrong]

"normanstrong" > wrote in message
news:rQrld.333889$wV.247806@attbi_s54...
>
> "bayydogg" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
> which
> > mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
> beast
> > from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive
to
> > the audience?
>
> Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to
see
> if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you
have
> the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

I recorded a funeral a few years back, using 3 PZMs. 2 were on the
floor to pick up the organ, choir and overall ambience, and one was on
the lectern to pick up the eulogies. None of the mikes were visible
to the audience, and the recording was excellent. I was given the job
because the church definitely didn't want visible mikes, and I could
accommodate this requirement.

Norm

[normanstrong]

"normanstrong" > wrote in message
news:rQrld.333889$wV.247806@attbi_s54...
>
> "bayydogg" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I understand the mic should be about 10 feet up in the air. So,
> which
> > mic stand is best for this situation? What to do to prevent this
> beast
> > from falling down? For dead center XY, how can it be unobtrusive
to
> > the audience?
>
> Have you considered spaced PZMs? I always check ahead of time to
see
> if a pair of PZMs on the floor can do the job. If they can, you
have
> the ultimate in unobtrusivity.

I recorded a funeral a few years back, using 3 PZMs. 2 were on the
floor to pick up the organ, choir and overall ambience, and one was on
the lectern to pick up the eulogies. None of the mikes were visible
to the audience, and the recording was excellent. I was given the job
because the church definitely didn't want visible mikes, and I could
accommodate this requirement.

Norm

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...

> Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things
like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)
>
> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&i
temid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
>
> There's also the Matthews at 25'
<http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029> Holds 7
lbs, weighs 37 lbs.
>
> I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&i
temid=419> Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors &
stairs.)

That's a nice list, Kurt. I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead of
78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in !!!
for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...

> Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things
like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)
>
> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&i
temid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
>
> There's also the Matthews at 25'
<http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=&products_ID=25029> Holds 7
lbs, weighs 37 lbs.
>
> I'll again recommend the Avenger A410B as a general purpose 13' stand
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=150&i
temid=419> Holds 22 lbs., weighs under 9, has lazy leg for sloping floors &
stairs.)

That's a nice list, Kurt. I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead of
78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in !!!
for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> bayydogg > wrote:
>
>
>> Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
>> modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
>> stands, so I know it's not that hard.
>
>
> You should not need to modify it.

Just threading the top with a 5/8"-27 die is useful as long as you don't use it too much (or install one of those 2" extensions on top with Locktite.)




> Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
> stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.) Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread? Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> bayydogg > wrote:
>
>
>> Anyway, I'll probably consider the lighting stand suggestion, then
>> modify it. I've converted some cheap photo tripods into portable mic
>> stands, so I know it's not that hard.
>
>
> You should not need to modify it.

Just threading the top with a 5/8"-27 die is useful as long as you don't use it too much (or install one of those 2" extensions on top with Locktite.)




> Bogen sells an adaptor from the light
> stand thread to the microphone thread, for three or four bucks.

I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.) Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread? Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.)
Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread?
Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)

The 3102 5/8" stud to 3/8"-16 (with that 3/8-16 to 5/8-27 adapter most mic
mounts have) is pretty much it. If you have the 5/8"-27 die then one can cut
5/8"-27 onto a 3106. I've got three that were modified this way. They aren't
up to as much abuse as the 3102.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.)
Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread?
Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)

The 3102 5/8" stud to 3/8"-16 (with that 3/8-16 to 5/8-27 adapter most mic
mounts have) is pretty much it. If you have the 5/8"-27 die then one can cut
5/8"-27 onto a 3106. I've got three that were modified this way. They aren't
up to as much abuse as the 3102.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Kurt Albershardt]

Douglas Moran wrote:
>
> in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy when
> extended all the way up.

That's what drove me to the A410B, quite solid up to its 13' limit. They can reach a tad over 20' with the extensions but things get rather wiggly up there...

[Kurt Albershardt]

Douglas Moran wrote:
>
> in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy when
> extended all the way up.

That's what drove me to the A410B, quite solid up to its 13' limit. They can reach a tad over 20' with the extensions but things get rather wiggly up there...

[Carey Carlan]

Douglas Moran > wrote in news:morand-
:


> I performed an experiment last night in an old chapel. The director
was
> convinced that the mic stand had to be 15-20 tall, and 4 rows back
> (think church pews).
>
> So I put my Schoeps 641's 4 rows back, raised the Shure S-15 as high as
> it would go. For the experiment, at the front edge of the stage,
using
> another S-15, I put my AT4053s up ~13'.
>
> This was a 100 voice choir, ~25 feet back from the front edge of the
> stage, on risers. Two concert grand pianos in front if them, and
> percussion (for Carmina Burana).

So your *close* microphones were already 25 feet from the chorus? That
sounds about right. Having the pianos and percussion in front of the
chorus makes it Very hard to get a good and balanced sound.

> End result was lots of the hall on the pulled back mount, poor clarity
> on the text (but I don't understand Latin anyway). The close mount was
> very clear, good diction, more what I was hearing when I took the
> headphones off. Now when the percussion was hammering away, it covered
> everything - both recording setups and to the listener in the audience.

That indicates a fairly live hall. Mic placement is ALWAYS crucially
dependent on the room.

Your director was trying for a better balance betweent the chorus and the
accompaniment. I understand, but setting up that far back would have
needed some spot mics on the choir blended in lightly to get some
consonants.

For instance, today I was recording in a ballroom. High ceiling, dead
acoustics, and lots of HVAC noise, but a very polite crowd. I was set up
almost on stage (very close) with CMC641's spread wide (to center the
stereo image) to get just orchestra (35 piece string orchestra) with as
little bounce as possible. I was probably 8 feet from the front row and
almost directly above the violin soloist.

> I really wondered about using a pair of cardiods rather than
> hypercardiods up high, but I didn't want to mess up what the customer
> wanted. (The second set, at the front edge of the stage was my idea,
> and something I wanted to do.)

Too high is too high (profound, huh?). You usually want to get into the
direct projection field of whatever you're recording. High is great for
brass, ugly for strings, and outside the field for voices unless they are
singing at the ceiling.

> And in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy
when
> extended all the way up.

I have the older model. It must be sturdier.

[Carey Carlan]

Douglas Moran > wrote in news:morand-
:


> I performed an experiment last night in an old chapel. The director
was
> convinced that the mic stand had to be 15-20 tall, and 4 rows back
> (think church pews).
>
> So I put my Schoeps 641's 4 rows back, raised the Shure S-15 as high as
> it would go. For the experiment, at the front edge of the stage,
using
> another S-15, I put my AT4053s up ~13'.
>
> This was a 100 voice choir, ~25 feet back from the front edge of the
> stage, on risers. Two concert grand pianos in front if them, and
> percussion (for Carmina Burana).

So your *close* microphones were already 25 feet from the chorus? That
sounds about right. Having the pianos and percussion in front of the
chorus makes it Very hard to get a good and balanced sound.

> End result was lots of the hall on the pulled back mount, poor clarity
> on the text (but I don't understand Latin anyway). The close mount was
> very clear, good diction, more what I was hearing when I took the
> headphones off. Now when the percussion was hammering away, it covered
> everything - both recording setups and to the listener in the audience.

That indicates a fairly live hall. Mic placement is ALWAYS crucially
dependent on the room.

Your director was trying for a better balance betweent the chorus and the
accompaniment. I understand, but setting up that far back would have
needed some spot mics on the choir blended in lightly to get some
consonants.

For instance, today I was recording in a ballroom. High ceiling, dead
acoustics, and lots of HVAC noise, but a very polite crowd. I was set up
almost on stage (very close) with CMC641's spread wide (to center the
stereo image) to get just orchestra (35 piece string orchestra) with as
little bounce as possible. I was probably 8 feet from the front row and
almost directly above the violin soloist.

> I really wondered about using a pair of cardiods rather than
> hypercardiods up high, but I didn't want to mess up what the customer
> wanted. (The second set, at the front edge of the stage was my idea,
> and something I wanted to do.)

Too high is too high (profound, huh?). You usually want to get into the
direct projection field of whatever you're recording. High is great for
brass, ugly for strings, and outside the field for voices unless they are
singing at the ceiling.

> And in regards to the mic stand thread - the S15 gets really flimsy
when
> extended all the way up.

I have the older model. It must be sturdier.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Bob Smith wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
>
> <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
>
>
> I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
> 19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead of
> 78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in !!!
> for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)


Good point there. 80" transport length is unmanageable for many situations. 66" is still a little longer than I'd prefer.


Wish they made something like an A410B with four or five sections.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Bob Smith wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
>
> <http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&itemid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
>
>
> I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
> 19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead of
> 78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in !!!
> for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)


Good point there. 80" transport length is unmanageable for many situations. 66" is still a little longer than I'd prefer.


Wish they made something like an A410B with four or five sections.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Bob Smith wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.)
>>
>> Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread?
>> Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)
>
> The 3102 5/8" stud to 3/8"-16

Those are the ones I have now.


AEA sells one for $45, probably should have asked to see it at AES.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Bob Smith wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I have some of their adapters to 3/8"-16 (which I much prefer to 5/8-27.)
>>
>> Do they make an adapter with a 5/8 female spigot and a 5/8"-27 thread?
>> Matthews has one but it costs something like $95 (!)
>
> The 3102 5/8" stud to 3/8"-16

Those are the ones I have now.


AEA sells one for $45, probably should have asked to see it at AES.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >,
> Carey Carlan > wrote:
>
>> I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.
>
>
> Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
> been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
> more to carry around).
>
> Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
> for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
> though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.

Is that what they call their AEA-13HDB? If so, it's an Avenger A410B.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article >,
> Carey Carlan > wrote:
>
>> I use the Shure S15. For unobtrusive, paint it black.
>
>
> Note that the original square-legged S15 has been discontinued, and has
> been replaced with a much flimsier tubular aluminum thing (which also weighs
> more to carry around).
>
> Wes Dooley is selling the original S15 stand from the same guys who OEMed it
> for Shure, and he has it available in black too. It's not cheap at all,
> though. But it's a very nice stand for a light mike pair.

Is that what they call their AEA-13HDB? If so, it's an Avenger A410B.

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Smith wrote:
> > "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
> >
> >
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&i
temid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
> >
> >
> > I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
> > 19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead
of
> > 78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in
!!!
> > for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)
>
> Good point there. 80" transport length is unmanageable for many
situations. 66" is still a little longer than I'd prefer.
>
> Wish they made something like an A410B with four or five sections.

I'd buy a pair of five section A410B in a heart beat if they made them.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Bob Smith]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Smith wrote:
> > "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> The Avenger A330 is 26'4" (but not a crank-up.)
> >
> >
<http://www.bogenimaging.us/product/templates/templates.php3?sectionid=148&i
temid=417> Holds 66 lbs. (!) weighs a little over 46 lbs.
> >
> >
> > I'd also add the A302 as a reasonable compromise:
> > 19.25 ft tall, holds 88 lbs, weighs 31 lbs, has a base of 51 in (instead
of
> > 78 in for the A330) and has a minimum height of 66 in (instead of 94 in
!!!
> > for the A330, gotta have a short ladder to put the mics on this one)
>
> Good point there. 80" transport length is unmanageable for many
situations. 66" is still a little longer than I'd prefer.
>
> Wish they made something like an A410B with four or five sections.

I'd buy a pair of five section A410B in a heart beat if they made them.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Len Moskowitz]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

>I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
>mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
>and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
>but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
>in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
>knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
>more of an issue from back there.

Ditto!

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Len Moskowitz]

Scott Dorsey > wrote:

>I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
>mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
>and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
>but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
>in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
>knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
>more of an issue from back there.

Ditto!

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Len Moskowitz]

Richard Kuschel > wrote:

>Omnis pointing straight up is moderately weird as the off axis response is not
>exactly the same as on- axis response.

Pointing up is exactly correct if he was using the B&Ks with their nose
cones.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Len Moskowitz]

Richard Kuschel > wrote:

>Omnis pointing straight up is moderately weird as the off axis response is not
>exactly the same as on- axis response.

Pointing up is exactly correct if he was using the B&Ks with their nose
cones.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Roger W. Norman]

And where have you been, sir? I don't believe I've seen any posts from you
for at least a year.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Len Moskowitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
> >I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
> >mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
> >and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
> >but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> >in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> >knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> >more of an issue from back there.
>
> Ditto!
>
> --
> Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
> Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
> Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
> Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Roger W. Norman]

And where have you been, sir? I don't believe I've seen any posts from you
for at least a year.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Len Moskowitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
> >I think you get less audience noise with the omnis, because they can be
> >mounted so much closer to the orchestra. I tend to prefer baffled omnis
> >and don't like the weird imaging of narrowly-spaced omnis on a bar,
> >but that's a personal thing. With cardioids, you need to pull way back
> >in the room. They can be a huge help in a lousy-sounding room, and God
> >knows we all wind up with those now and then, but the audience noise is
> >more of an issue from back there.
>
> Ditto!
>
> --
> Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
> Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
> Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
> Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[bayydogg]

yup, they were nose cones. kind of looked like earthworks.

>
> Pointing up is exactly correct if he was using the B&Ks with their nose
> cones.

[bayydogg]

yup, they were nose cones. kind of looked like earthworks.

>
> Pointing up is exactly correct if he was using the B&Ks with their nose
> cones.

[Scott Dorsey]

Kurt Albershardt > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> I like the Avenger crank-ups, which are also sold by Bogen.
>
>Do you have a model number? The only tall crank-ups I can find are things like the B150 (20' lift, holds 154 lbs. but weighs 156 lbs!)

No, I don't. Mine seems to be a "Trapeze" model from what I can see of the
somewhat beat-up lettering on the leg. It's probably around fifty pounds
and very stable. I got it in the early 1980s from KEH Camera in Atlanta
back when they still had a walk-in store, and it originally was sold the
first time by Calumet. I will check the Bogen catalogue and see if there
is anything comparable, although I do know that Calumet imports a somewhat
different selection of the Avenger and Manfrotto stuff than Bogen does and
they have different names for them.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."