building monitors

[gary]

I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
true results following an instruction guide?

Thanks for any input

[Adam]

Oh hell... Don't do this if all you want is a cheaper speaker! If you
count time as money (free time, I don't), the cost of your speakers will
quickly sky-rocket. Do this because you really really want to. I decided
to build speakers instead of buying a pair... Why? Because I enjoy
woodworking, and I wanted to design my own speaker... Further, a speaker
that is drool-worthy! Anybody can go out and buy a pair of speakers.

I'm in the middle of building a pair of speakers. I desired hyper-accurate,
so I bought some great drive units. Getting the sound I want out of them
has been a huge headache, particularly since my analysis equipment is
limited. (I'm using Pro Tools w/ Waves Renaissance EQ as a variable
crossover!) However, should you decide it's worth it to you... I bought my
drive units from Madisound (www.madisound.com). Eton 7" woofers (7-360),
the same woofer as used in a couple A.D.A.M. monitors. They have a rather
forward midrange sound to them, which I like. I also have Dynaudio D260
tweeters, which I find amazing.

Madisound does offer kits, even some studio monitor kits (see Vifa and Eton
kits). But I'd still go with an active monitor. Why? Because passive
crossovers are a necessary evil. They mess with the impedance, screw up the
damping, route woofers' back-EMF to other components, and the crossover
point drifts depending on voice coil temperatures (changes DC resistance of
the coil, as well as the inductive reactance). Active crossovers (like in
active monitors) have none of these problems. I'm doing a passive crossover
anyway, because right now I can't afford an active crossover and another
couple amplifiers to actively drive these things.

I'm using polypropylene capacitors (DON'T use electrolytics as their
capacitance value degrades over time), and air-core inductors (avoid
iron-core inductors if possible; they're smaller and cheaper than air-core
inductors of similar value, but saturate at lower power levels), all by
Solen. Whether expensive caps will really offer a better sound over the
cheap polypro caps remains to be seen.

For damping material, I ended up using thick cotton batting, available at
fabric stores. Don't use fiberfill; as I've found out, its damping
qualities are almost nil! You might also consider foam or fiberglass
insulation. Experiment, see what quells the particular resonances of your
cabinet.

My project has taken me a couple months so far in planning, building,
testing, more testing, yet more testing, and exasperation. Next time I
think I'll just buy a pair of Dynaudio Contour S1.4 and be done with it.
;-)

"gary" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
> recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
> sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?
>
> Thanks for any input

[Adam]

Oh hell... Don't do this if all you want is a cheaper speaker! If you
count time as money (free time, I don't), the cost of your speakers will
quickly sky-rocket. Do this because you really really want to. I decided
to build speakers instead of buying a pair... Why? Because I enjoy
woodworking, and I wanted to design my own speaker... Further, a speaker
that is drool-worthy! Anybody can go out and buy a pair of speakers.

I'm in the middle of building a pair of speakers. I desired hyper-accurate,
so I bought some great drive units. Getting the sound I want out of them
has been a huge headache, particularly since my analysis equipment is
limited. (I'm using Pro Tools w/ Waves Renaissance EQ as a variable
crossover!) However, should you decide it's worth it to you... I bought my
drive units from Madisound (www.madisound.com). Eton 7" woofers (7-360),
the same woofer as used in a couple A.D.A.M. monitors. They have a rather
forward midrange sound to them, which I like. I also have Dynaudio D260
tweeters, which I find amazing.

Madisound does offer kits, even some studio monitor kits (see Vifa and Eton
kits). But I'd still go with an active monitor. Why? Because passive
crossovers are a necessary evil. They mess with the impedance, screw up the
damping, route woofers' back-EMF to other components, and the crossover
point drifts depending on voice coil temperatures (changes DC resistance of
the coil, as well as the inductive reactance). Active crossovers (like in
active monitors) have none of these problems. I'm doing a passive crossover
anyway, because right now I can't afford an active crossover and another
couple amplifiers to actively drive these things.

I'm using polypropylene capacitors (DON'T use electrolytics as their
capacitance value degrades over time), and air-core inductors (avoid
iron-core inductors if possible; they're smaller and cheaper than air-core
inductors of similar value, but saturate at lower power levels), all by
Solen. Whether expensive caps will really offer a better sound over the
cheap polypro caps remains to be seen.

For damping material, I ended up using thick cotton batting, available at
fabric stores. Don't use fiberfill; as I've found out, its damping
qualities are almost nil! You might also consider foam or fiberglass
insulation. Experiment, see what quells the particular resonances of your
cabinet.

My project has taken me a couple months so far in planning, building,
testing, more testing, yet more testing, and exasperation. Next time I
think I'll just buy a pair of Dynaudio Contour S1.4 and be done with it.
;-)

"gary" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
> recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
> sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?
>
> Thanks for any input

[Arny Krueger]

"gary" > wrote in message
om

> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors.

If you don't already have good monitors, this makes about as much sense as
making your own ruler from scratch, without already having a ruler on hand.

> I recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them.

Not necessarily. For example, price out the parts for Behringer Truths, or
Blue Skys.

> Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience?

To have something with competitive sound quality, you'll have a long
learning curve, and you'll have to teach yourself something about just about
every aspect of audio.

> Has anyone been successful in making great sounding speakers?

A number of manufacturers but far less amateurs than claim that they have.

>Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?

Probably, but you don't find a lot of people who rely on them.

[Arny Krueger]

"gary" > wrote in message
om

> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors.

If you don't already have good monitors, this makes about as much sense as
making your own ruler from scratch, without already having a ruler on hand.

> I recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them.

Not necessarily. For example, price out the parts for Behringer Truths, or
Blue Skys.

> Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience?

To have something with competitive sound quality, you'll have a long
learning curve, and you'll have to teach yourself something about just about
every aspect of audio.

> Has anyone been successful in making great sounding speakers?

A number of manufacturers but far less amateurs than claim that they have.

>Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?

Probably, but you don't find a lot of people who rely on them.

[anybody-but-bush]

"gary" > wrote in message
om...
: I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on
building monitors. I
: recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized
that the
: components for making a speaker are much cheaper than
the cost of
: buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for
someone like me with
: shop access and experience? Has anyone been
successful in making great
: sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of
thing or tried and
: true results following an instruction guide?
:
: Thanks for any input

Try starting here:

Try this link
http://ldsg.snippets.org/idx.php3
Phil Abbate
www. philsaudio.com


Also look at the above thread in this group called
" am I crazy for wanting to build my own speakers"

[anybody-but-bush]

"gary" > wrote in message
om...
: I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on
building monitors. I
: recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized
that the
: components for making a speaker are much cheaper than
the cost of
: buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for
someone like me with
: shop access and experience? Has anyone been
successful in making great
: sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of
thing or tried and
: true results following an instruction guide?
:
: Thanks for any input

Try starting here:

Try this link
http://ldsg.snippets.org/idx.php3
Phil Abbate
www. philsaudio.com


Also look at the above thread in this group called
" am I crazy for wanting to build my own speakers"

[EganMedia]

<< Has anyone been successful in making great
sounding speakers? >><BR><BR>


It is possible, but it's also very difficult. Matching the components and the
cabinet is a trial and error process, even among large speaker companies.
Science will help you get started, but the interaction between all the
components won't be realized until the things are built. There are kit
speakers with tested drivers/crossovers/cabintets (or cabinet specs if you want
to build your own.

I'm considering buying a pair ATC kit speakers. I've heard ATC scm 100s
before, and if the kits sound like the production models, they ought to be a
steal.

https://secure.wilmslowaudio.co.uk/acatalog/Wilmslow_Audio_ATC_K50_and_K10
0_Kits_12.html


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[EganMedia]

<< Has anyone been successful in making great
sounding speakers? >><BR><BR>


It is possible, but it's also very difficult. Matching the components and the
cabinet is a trial and error process, even among large speaker companies.
Science will help you get started, but the interaction between all the
components won't be realized until the things are built. There are kit
speakers with tested drivers/crossovers/cabintets (or cabinet specs if you want
to build your own.

I'm considering buying a pair ATC kit speakers. I've heard ATC scm 100s
before, and if the kits sound like the production models, they ought to be a
steal.

https://secure.wilmslowaudio.co.uk/acatalog/Wilmslow_Audio_ATC_K50_and_K10
0_Kits_12.html


Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com

[Greg Bianchini]

(gary) wrote in message >...
> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
> recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
> sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?
>

I built my own monitors, and they sound very good (or mostly
transparent-they're monitors). There is a long learning curve though.
I've been building speakers for years and I'm still figuring things
out. So, while it's a fun hobby and interesting technical challenge,
for most folks just buying some monitors makes more sense. It's really
necessary to buy and read a couple books, as well as purchase
measuring gear, to design your own.

OTOH, if you build a proven design, or a kit, that might be a way to
get good results right off the bat. Off the top of my head, some
vendors that offer kits are: madisound.com, zalytron.com,
e-speakers.com. Madisound has a discussion board, and there are
several others if you google.

Integrating the monitors into the acoustic space, and the space
itself, have equal importance to the speakers, IMO.

GB

[Greg Bianchini]

(gary) wrote in message >...
> I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
> recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
> components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
> buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
> shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
> sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
> true results following an instruction guide?
>

I built my own monitors, and they sound very good (or mostly
transparent-they're monitors). There is a long learning curve though.
I've been building speakers for years and I'm still figuring things
out. So, while it's a fun hobby and interesting technical challenge,
for most folks just buying some monitors makes more sense. It's really
necessary to buy and read a couple books, as well as purchase
measuring gear, to design your own.

OTOH, if you build a proven design, or a kit, that might be a way to
get good results right off the bat. Off the top of my head, some
vendors that offer kits are: madisound.com, zalytron.com,
e-speakers.com. Madisound has a discussion board, and there are
several others if you google.

Integrating the monitors into the acoustic space, and the space
itself, have equal importance to the speakers, IMO.

GB

[Ben Bradley]

On 11 Nov 2004 16:58:55 -0800, (gary) wrote:

>I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
>recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
>components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
>buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
>shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
>sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
>true results following an instruction guide?

See the active thread here with the suject:
Am I crazy for wanting to build my own speakers?

>Thanks for any input

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

[Ben Bradley]

On 11 Nov 2004 16:58:55 -0800, (gary) wrote:

>I'm looking for links, advice, and discussion on building monitors. I
>recently replaced a woofer in an old cab and realized that the
>components for making a speaker are much cheaper than the cost of
>buying them. Is it a worthwhile undertaking for someone like me with
>shop access and experience? Has anyone been successful in making great
>sounding speakers? Are there kits for this kind of thing or tried and
>true results following an instruction guide?

See the active thread here with the suject:
Am I crazy for wanting to build my own speakers?

>Thanks for any input

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley