Real Deal Tube Preamp...Is It Worth It?

[jon]

hello. recently, i've been reading about real tube preamps vs
inexpensive tube simulators (like the art stuff). i know that the
peavey vmp-2 is considered a "real" tube preamp, and it's
affordable...but i can't find one. i'd really like to get that "real"
class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
of my price range.

now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
"real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
preamp? ahhhh!

[John Washburn]

"jon" wrote:
> hello. recently, i've been reading about real tube preamps vs
> inexpensive tube simulators (like the art stuff). i know that the
> peavey vmp-2 is considered a "real" tube preamp, and it's
> affordable...but i can't find one. i'd really like to get that "real"
> class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
> of my price range.
>
> now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> "real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=tube%20sound&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=rec.audio.pro&lr=&hl=en

-jw

[John Washburn]

"jon" wrote:
> hello. recently, i've been reading about real tube preamps vs
> inexpensive tube simulators (like the art stuff). i know that the
> peavey vmp-2 is considered a "real" tube preamp, and it's
> affordable...but i can't find one. i'd really like to get that "real"
> class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
> of my price range.
>
> now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> "real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=tube%20sound&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&as_ugroup=rec.audio.pro&lr=&hl=en

-jw

[Jim Kollens]

jonathandowns: << i'd really like to get that "real"
class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
of my price range. >>

You're right: the real tube pre's are expensive and I think you would need to
spend that kind of money to make it worthwhile and actually hear the
difference. And that difference may not be significant to you. I'm not sure
of current prices, but you could look around for an old Altec 1566A. They used
to be quite cheap. They can sound very good as long as you don't drive them
into a true 600 ohm input. If you can pick one of these up at a good price,
you will get some idea of what tubes sound like.

[Jim Kollens]

jonathandowns: << i'd really like to get that "real"
class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
of my price range. >>

You're right: the real tube pre's are expensive and I think you would need to
spend that kind of money to make it worthwhile and actually hear the
difference. And that difference may not be significant to you. I'm not sure
of current prices, but you could look around for an old Altec 1566A. They used
to be quite cheap. They can sound very good as long as you don't drive them
into a true 600 ohm input. If you can pick one of these up at a good price,
you will get some idea of what tubes sound like.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
tricks.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
tricks.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Tim Perry]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > should i bail on the "real" tube
> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> > preamp? ahhhh!
>
> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
> tricks.
>

you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use those
cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a 12AX7A
and your all set :)

[Tim Perry]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > should i bail on the "real" tube
> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> > preamp? ahhhh!
>
> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
> tricks.
>

you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use those
cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a 12AX7A
and your all set :)

[agent86]

Tim Perry wrote:

>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>>
>> In article >
> writes:
>>
>> > should i bail on the "real" tube
>> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>> > preamp? ahhhh!
>>
>> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
>> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
>> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
>> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
>> tricks.
>>
>
> you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use
> those cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a
> 12AX7A and your all set :)

Be sure & poke a bunch of holes in the front so the tube is visible.
That way you can see how good it sounds.

[agent86]

Tim Perry wrote:

>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>>
>> In article >
> writes:
>>
>> > should i bail on the "real" tube
>> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>> > preamp? ahhhh!
>>
>> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
>> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
>> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
>> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
>> tricks.
>>
>
> you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use
> those cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a
> 12AX7A and your all set :)

Be sure & poke a bunch of holes in the front so the tube is visible.
That way you can see how good it sounds.

[Wayne]

FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy the
one that has the sound you hear and want.

Consider, the s/n, distortion levels, sensitivity, character as relates to
"smooth, warm, harsh, etc", bucks, reliability and other factors. Then you
will determine whether it's a "good" or "bad" toob preamp.

If everybody liked the same preamp, there would only be one preamp, but alas,
we is different.

Wayne
(I'm going back to sleep now)

>Tim Perry wrote:
>
>>
>> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>> news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>>>
>>> In article >
>> writes:
>>>
>>> > should i bail on the "real" tube
>>> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>>> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>>> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>>> > preamp? ahhhh!
>>>
>>> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
>>> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
>>> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
>>> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
>>> tricks.
>>>
>>
>> you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use
>> those cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a
>> 12AX7A and your all set :)
>
>Be sure & poke a bunch of holes in the front so the tube is visible.
>That way you can see how good it sounds.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Wayne]

FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy the
one that has the sound you hear and want.

Consider, the s/n, distortion levels, sensitivity, character as relates to
"smooth, warm, harsh, etc", bucks, reliability and other factors. Then you
will determine whether it's a "good" or "bad" toob preamp.

If everybody liked the same preamp, there would only be one preamp, but alas,
we is different.

Wayne
(I'm going back to sleep now)

>Tim Perry wrote:
>
>>
>> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>> news:znr1095460538k@trad...
>>>
>>> In article >
>> writes:
>>>
>>> > should i bail on the "real" tube
>>> > thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>>> > presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>>> > the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>>> > preamp? ahhhh!
>>>
>>> What's the "real" tube sound anyway? It's really a "transformer"
>>> sound without very much distortion in the amplifier stage. Why not
>>> just get a nice sounding preamp? And if you already have one, just get
>>> a crappy sounding preamp so you'll have some variety. Don't mess with
>>> tricks.
>>>
>>
>> you could always build one. get a cigar box (or maybe for variety use
>> those cool Neumann wood storage boxes and a hand full of parts. plug in a
>> 12AX7A and your all set :)
>
>Be sure & poke a bunch of holes in the front so the tube is visible.
>That way you can see how good it sounds.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[hank alrich]

jon wrote:

> should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes?

How about just getting a real preamp, period? The RNP from FMR gives you
two channels of that for under five hundred dollars. Work with that
awhile and see how you do. It's good enough that if what you put infront
of it sounds like you want it to sound, the RNP won't damage that sound.

> how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

Yes, it is a real cheap real tube preamp, and works like a preamp with
very low output mics. With regular mics it distorts like mad right up
front at the input transformer. It can ge good for dirty sounds with
regular mics, but it doesn't do clean very well with those.

--
ha

[hank alrich]

jon wrote:

> should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes?

How about just getting a real preamp, period? The RNP from FMR gives you
two channels of that for under five hundred dollars. Work with that
awhile and see how you do. It's good enough that if what you put infront
of it sounds like you want it to sound, the RNP won't damage that sound.

> how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

Yes, it is a real cheap real tube preamp, and works like a preamp with
very low output mics. With regular mics it distorts like mad right up
front at the input transformer. It can ge good for dirty sounds with
regular mics, but it doesn't do clean very well with those.

--
ha

[agent86]

Wayne wrote:

> FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy
> the one that has the sound you hear and want.

Listen to a Manley or a Fearn and an ART or a Behringer.

THEN come back & say that.

Betcha won't.

[agent86]

Wayne wrote:

> FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy
> the one that has the sound you hear and want.

Listen to a Manley or a Fearn and an ART or a Behringer.

THEN come back & say that.

Betcha won't.

[Scott Dorsey]

jon > wrote:
>
>now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
>might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
>"real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
>thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>preamp? ahhhh!

I haven't seen the TMP-1.

The Bellari is interesting... it has a real front end that really does
have a tube gain stage, but then it has solid state output stuff (and
some pretty awful input transformers). The Bellari sounds like a not
very good tube preamp, whereas stuff like the ART sounds more like a
cartoon of a tube preamp.

I think Groove Tubes is now making a reasonably priced tube preamp.

Mostly, though, you should avoid getting hung up on the whole tube
thing. Go and listen to some preamps and get one that sounds good,
rather than spending your time worrying about what is inside them.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

jon > wrote:
>
>now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
>might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
>"real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
>thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
>presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
>the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
>preamp? ahhhh!

I haven't seen the TMP-1.

The Bellari is interesting... it has a real front end that really does
have a tube gain stage, but then it has solid state output stuff (and
some pretty awful input transformers). The Bellari sounds like a not
very good tube preamp, whereas stuff like the ART sounds more like a
cartoon of a tube preamp.

I think Groove Tubes is now making a reasonably priced tube preamp.

Mostly, though, you should avoid getting hung up on the whole tube
thing. Go and listen to some preamps and get one that sounds good,
rather than spending your time worrying about what is inside them.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Wayne]

>Wayne wrote:
>
>> FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy
>> the one that has the sound you hear and want.
>
>Listen to a Manley or a Fearn and an ART or a Behringer.
>
>THEN come back & say that.
>
>Betcha won't.
>
>

Application, application, application!

There are folks on RAP that either like or dislike all four of the preamps you
referenced. That doesn't indicate good or bad, just a different preference.
The same thing is true with mics and everything else we use in our studios.

Personally, I don't have any of the four your mentioned. I do however have a
VMP-2 modded by Stephen Sank and a Aphex 107. One a full tube, the other a
hybrid. They both have their uses and mostly I prefer the VMP-2 over the 107.

I had a Rolls RP220 and sold it because I didn't have many uses for it.
However, on some things it did a very good job so it's not trash.

Of course, financial limitations factor into everything we purchase. None of
my mics cost over a $1000 and that has not been a limiting factor on making
quality recordings. We have to work around issues in all our studios and I
happen to think it makes us better audio engineers. Just because I might have
a Manley or D.W. Fearn does not guarantee a "better" sounding session than I
could get with an Art or Behringer.

Scott summed it up nicely when he said we need to get over the tube thingy and
look for the best sounding preamp we can afford to buy.

As long as what I have recorded sounds better than what's playing in the
studio, I'm not interested in spending the mega bucks for high dollar "brand
names".

Just my view. :>)

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-

[Wayne]

>Wayne wrote:
>
>> FWIW, There really isn't a good or bad tube preamp, only different. Buy
>> the one that has the sound you hear and want.
>
>Listen to a Manley or a Fearn and an ART or a Behringer.
>
>THEN come back & say that.
>
>Betcha won't.
>
>

Application, application, application!

There are folks on RAP that either like or dislike all four of the preamps you
referenced. That doesn't indicate good or bad, just a different preference.
The same thing is true with mics and everything else we use in our studios.

Personally, I don't have any of the four your mentioned. I do however have a
VMP-2 modded by Stephen Sank and a Aphex 107. One a full tube, the other a
hybrid. They both have their uses and mostly I prefer the VMP-2 over the 107.

I had a Rolls RP220 and sold it because I didn't have many uses for it.
However, on some things it did a very good job so it's not trash.

Of course, financial limitations factor into everything we purchase. None of
my mics cost over a $1000 and that has not been a limiting factor on making
quality recordings. We have to work around issues in all our studios and I
happen to think it makes us better audio engineers. Just because I might have
a Manley or D.W. Fearn does not guarantee a "better" sounding session than I
could get with an Art or Behringer.

Scott summed it up nicely when he said we need to get over the tube thingy and
look for the best sounding preamp we can afford to buy.

As long as what I have recorded sounds better than what's playing in the
studio, I'm not interested in spending the mega bucks for high dollar "brand
names".

Just my view. :>)

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-

[Neil Rutman]

The IDSS on the MP20 is a lame tube simulation if that's really what it's
supposed to be, but for my money the MP 20 is an excellent stereo preamp for
under $400 especially if you can find one with Jensen transformers.

Neil R

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> jon > wrote:
> >
> >now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> >might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> >"real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> >thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> >presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> >the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> >preamp? ahhhh!
>
> I haven't seen the TMP-1.
>
> The Bellari is interesting... it has a real front end that really does
> have a tube gain stage, but then it has solid state output stuff (and
> some pretty awful input transformers). The Bellari sounds like a not
> very good tube preamp, whereas stuff like the ART sounds more like a
> cartoon of a tube preamp.
>
> I think Groove Tubes is now making a reasonably priced tube preamp.
>
> Mostly, though, you should avoid getting hung up on the whole tube
> thing. Go and listen to some preamps and get one that sounds good,
> rather than spending your time worrying about what is inside them.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Neil Rutman]

The IDSS on the MP20 is a lame tube simulation if that's really what it's
supposed to be, but for my money the MP 20 is an excellent stereo preamp for
under $400 especially if you can find one with Jensen transformers.

Neil R

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> jon > wrote:
> >
> >now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> >might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> >"real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> >thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> >presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> >the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> >preamp? ahhhh!
>
> I haven't seen the TMP-1.
>
> The Bellari is interesting... it has a real front end that really does
> have a tube gain stage, but then it has solid state output stuff (and
> some pretty awful input transformers). The Bellari sounds like a not
> very good tube preamp, whereas stuff like the ART sounds more like a
> cartoon of a tube preamp.
>
> I think Groove Tubes is now making a reasonably priced tube preamp.
>
> Mostly, though, you should avoid getting hung up on the whole tube
> thing. Go and listen to some preamps and get one that sounds good,
> rather than spending your time worrying about what is inside them.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Caffrey]

(jon) wrote in message >...
> hello. recently, i've been reading about real tube preamps vs
> inexpensive tube simulators (like the art stuff). i know that the
> peavey vmp-2 is considered a "real" tube preamp, and it's
> affordable...but i can't find one. i'd really like to get that "real"
> class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
> of my price range.
>
> now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> "real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

Don't distrated by the tube myth. What people like for warmth is the
sound of transformers. I'm pretty sure that if people cone only have
one pre foar a wrm sound they'd probably choose a class A Neve pre
which is solid state. SOme of the warest geart is solid state.

That's not to say that there isn't plenty of great tube gear out
there, just don't limit your choices. IF you're looking for the best
advice, post your beduget and what you intend to use the pre for.

[Mike Caffrey]

(jon) wrote in message >...
> hello. recently, i've been reading about real tube preamps vs
> inexpensive tube simulators (like the art stuff). i know that the
> peavey vmp-2 is considered a "real" tube preamp, and it's
> affordable...but i can't find one. i'd really like to get that "real"
> class-a tube preamp sound...but the stuff by avalon and manley is out
> of my price range.
>
> now i have a few questions that i'm hoping some experienced members
> might be able to help me out with: is the peavey tmp-1 considered a
> "real" tube preamp like the vmp-2? should i bail on the "real" tube
> thing and get a presonus mp20 (with saturation simulation)? how is the
> presonus mp20 when it comes to getting that "real" tube sound, despite
> the lack of tubes? how about the bellari rp220...is that a "real" tube
> preamp? ahhhh!

Don't distrated by the tube myth. What people like for warmth is the
sound of transformers. I'm pretty sure that if people cone only have
one pre foar a wrm sound they'd probably choose a class A Neve pre
which is solid state. SOme of the warest geart is solid state.

That's not to say that there isn't plenty of great tube gear out
there, just don't limit your choices. IF you're looking for the best
advice, post your beduget and what you intend to use the pre for.

[bayydogg]

i had/have bottom line tube emulation amps and mics. the presonus
tubepre was outright horrible because it sounded fake, so i dumped it.
i also have the dbx 386 and it is less terrible than the presonus but
it never sounds warm. i'm keeping it for the time being for its fairly
decent a/d converters. i have two grace 101 preamps, which are
low-cost transformerless solid-state preamps that have a natural sound
with an "airy" top, which sounds quite warm/big with a neumann u87 ai,
rode k2 tube, and somewhat warm/big with an at4047 mic. i just sold an
at3060 tube mic because it never sounded very warm. it was a
horrendously dumb mic with a fake tube.

imho 1) to get a real good tube sound you need some serious gear and
not the emulation stuff, 2) it's possible to get a great sound with
serious non-tube gear, and 3) it's easy to mess up even with serious
gear if something isn't right in the chain. i've heard thin stuff come
out of an avalon 737 and a low-end neumann mic.

my recommendations are to lurk forums, read reviews, get catalogs,
visit online vendors, go test gear if you have time...but stay away
from emulations. yeah, peavey'll be a hard catch, but maybe look at
devices such as the drawmer ts2, universal audio, and other top name
gear. i think there's ample gear in the $700-1000 range that will
sound warm/big, tube or not.

[bayydogg]

i had/have bottom line tube emulation amps and mics. the presonus
tubepre was outright horrible because it sounded fake, so i dumped it.
i also have the dbx 386 and it is less terrible than the presonus but
it never sounds warm. i'm keeping it for the time being for its fairly
decent a/d converters. i have two grace 101 preamps, which are
low-cost transformerless solid-state preamps that have a natural sound
with an "airy" top, which sounds quite warm/big with a neumann u87 ai,
rode k2 tube, and somewhat warm/big with an at4047 mic. i just sold an
at3060 tube mic because it never sounded very warm. it was a
horrendously dumb mic with a fake tube.

imho 1) to get a real good tube sound you need some serious gear and
not the emulation stuff, 2) it's possible to get a great sound with
serious non-tube gear, and 3) it's easy to mess up even with serious
gear if something isn't right in the chain. i've heard thin stuff come
out of an avalon 737 and a low-end neumann mic.

my recommendations are to lurk forums, read reviews, get catalogs,
visit online vendors, go test gear if you have time...but stay away
from emulations. yeah, peavey'll be a hard catch, but maybe look at
devices such as the drawmer ts2, universal audio, and other top name
gear. i think there's ample gear in the $700-1000 range that will
sound warm/big, tube or not.