Re: Changing One's Political Mind (was: Some OT but really

[WillStG]

<< Luke Kaven >>
<< It might be more accurate to say that he has a reckless disregard for
the truth, rather than to call him a liar. He isn't open and
forthcoming with pertinent facts when he knows them, and the
information has very low fidelity >>

Given that Candidate Kerry who has been hurling such barbs at the
President made the same exact same claims as the President, and took the same
positions as President Bush once upon a time - and given Kerry has also taken
the exact opposite positions as well the next day, to kiss up to those who so
hate the President that they don't mind being lied to - what is your euphemism
for "hypocrite" and "political opportunist"?

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Luke Kaven]

(WillStG) wrote:

><< Luke Kaven >>
><< It might be more accurate to say that he has a reckless disregard for
>the truth, rather than to call him a liar. He isn't open and
>forthcoming with pertinent facts when he knows them, and the
>information has very low fidelity >>
>
> Given that Candidate Kerry who has been hurling such barbs at the
>President made the same exact same claims as the President, and took the same
>positions as President Bush once upon a time - and given Kerry has also taken
>the exact opposite positions as well the next day, to kiss up to those who so
>hate the President that they don't mind being lied to - what is your euphemism
>for "hypocrite" and "political opportunist"?

Your claim that Kerry made the exact same claims as the President and
took the same positions is false.

Kerry voted to place the *authority* to commit to war with Bush
because he believed that such authority was properly the President's.
It was not a claim about whether the President ought to use that
authority, and it was not in any way an endorsement of the President's
position. To the extent that he was inclined in any way towards war,
it was because he, like most Americans, was taken in by the false
intelligence purveyed as gospel by the President, Vice-President, and
Secty. of Defense, and backed feverishly by Powell, who even the left
was inclined to trust until that. If Kerry is guilty of anything it
is underestimating Bush's disregard for truth, or the standards of
evidence.

Kerry has not been inconsistent over the years in my view. Like all
politicians, and like Bush, he is somewhat opportunistic. But he
usually stands on principle, whether one likes his principle or not.
Blowing the whistle on the Vietnam War was a service to mankind in my
view.

Bush is consistent in some respects. He still believes the naive
things that he is reported to have said at Harvard, namely that poor
people are just lazy and that the civil rights movement was a bad
idea. Of course he also believed that the Vietnam War was a good
thing to fight, so long as he didn't have to fight it. But when it
suits him, he will flip--or he will flip your brain if he can. He has
to. After all, what's he going to say after screaming Mission
Accomplished in five-hundred point type? That's a big belief bubble.

Luke

[Luke Kaven]

(WillStG) wrote:

><< Luke Kaven >>
><< It might be more accurate to say that he has a reckless disregard for
>the truth, rather than to call him a liar. He isn't open and
>forthcoming with pertinent facts when he knows them, and the
>information has very low fidelity >>
>
> Given that Candidate Kerry who has been hurling such barbs at the
>President made the same exact same claims as the President, and took the same
>positions as President Bush once upon a time - and given Kerry has also taken
>the exact opposite positions as well the next day, to kiss up to those who so
>hate the President that they don't mind being lied to - what is your euphemism
>for "hypocrite" and "political opportunist"?

Your claim that Kerry made the exact same claims as the President and
took the same positions is false.

Kerry voted to place the *authority* to commit to war with Bush
because he believed that such authority was properly the President's.
It was not a claim about whether the President ought to use that
authority, and it was not in any way an endorsement of the President's
position. To the extent that he was inclined in any way towards war,
it was because he, like most Americans, was taken in by the false
intelligence purveyed as gospel by the President, Vice-President, and
Secty. of Defense, and backed feverishly by Powell, who even the left
was inclined to trust until that. If Kerry is guilty of anything it
is underestimating Bush's disregard for truth, or the standards of
evidence.

Kerry has not been inconsistent over the years in my view. Like all
politicians, and like Bush, he is somewhat opportunistic. But he
usually stands on principle, whether one likes his principle or not.
Blowing the whistle on the Vietnam War was a service to mankind in my
view.

Bush is consistent in some respects. He still believes the naive
things that he is reported to have said at Harvard, namely that poor
people are just lazy and that the civil rights movement was a bad
idea. Of course he also believed that the Vietnam War was a good
thing to fight, so long as he didn't have to fight it. But when it
suits him, he will flip--or he will flip your brain if he can. He has
to. After all, what's he going to say after screaming Mission
Accomplished in five-hundred point type? That's a big belief bubble.

Luke

[Don Cooper]

> >"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom
> >Waits


No I understand. He's a parody. That's all.

No one could be so stupid.

[Don Cooper]

> >"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom
> >Waits


No I understand. He's a parody. That's all.

No one could be so stupid.

[[email protected]]

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On 2004-09-17 (WillStG) said:
><< Luke Kaven >>
><< It might be more accurate to say that he has a reckless
>disregard for the truth, rather than to call him a liar. He isn't
>open and forthcoming with pertinent facts when he knows them, and
>the information has very low fidelity >>
>Given that Candidate Kerry who has been hurling such barbs at the
>President made the same exact same claims as the President, and
>took the same positions as President Bush once upon a time - and
>given Kerry has also taken the exact opposite positions as well the
>next day, to kiss up to those who so hate the President that they
>don't mind being lied to - what is your euphemism for "hypocrite"
>and "political opportunist"?

Irrelevant. HE's a legislative type dude. HE's going on the info the
"professionals" gave him, and based his position on that.

Then he found out somebody had been blowing smoke up his tailpipe.

WHat gets me in all this is that our leaders are arrogant enough to
think that we're going to either call them on it or wonder why they
didn't call the "pros" on their faulty info. FUnny how my mother kept
spouting the "he's got WMD" line.

WHat WMD?

Just a few short years ago the media would have been bringing those
tough questions out and people would have been wondering why the pros
could have bungled it so badly. IF the pros didn't bungle it then we
were fed a line of BS. WH o's responsible for the line of BS and why?
THose would have been the questions. NOw it's just more sound bites
from talking heads and more bull**** because the public has a short
attention span and will forget that tough questions should be asked
after something such as this.

IT goes back to Nixon again, why do we choose to elect leaders who are
arrogant enough and foolish enough to let themselves be deluded that
the people will swallow this sh*t? IF you read WOodward and
Bernstein's account of how they cracked watergate it was more like
peeling an onion. AT any time they could have stopped the peeling and
Tricky DIck could have just said "I didn't authorize that. NOt on my
watch. All you b*stards are fired!!!" A lot of people would have
stood up and appluaded that one, but he stonewalled down to the bitter
end of what otherwise might have been a near stellar career as
PResident.

Hey at least Ollie admitted he shredded all the papers and with a rep
of good old Ed MEese's A.G.'s office right in the room with him <g>.

THen he got elected to public office a short time later <g>.

INstead the media ignores the big ones that our government pulls when
it drops the ball on such as this. INstead they do something else.
Like Will I'll quote TOm Waits.

"VOlume volume turn up the volume!"

>"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom
>Waits

Btw those are both from the same tune aren't they WIll?

was just getting up after a gig and drinking my morning coffee and
having a smoke when the local progressive music station played that
first time I heard it. Had coffee coming out my nose.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

[[email protected]]

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:32:23 GMT
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On 2004-09-17 (WillStG) said:
><< Luke Kaven >>
><< It might be more accurate to say that he has a reckless
>disregard for the truth, rather than to call him a liar. He isn't
>open and forthcoming with pertinent facts when he knows them, and
>the information has very low fidelity >>
>Given that Candidate Kerry who has been hurling such barbs at the
>President made the same exact same claims as the President, and
>took the same positions as President Bush once upon a time - and
>given Kerry has also taken the exact opposite positions as well the
>next day, to kiss up to those who so hate the President that they
>don't mind being lied to - what is your euphemism for "hypocrite"
>and "political opportunist"?

Irrelevant. HE's a legislative type dude. HE's going on the info the
"professionals" gave him, and based his position on that.

Then he found out somebody had been blowing smoke up his tailpipe.

WHat gets me in all this is that our leaders are arrogant enough to
think that we're going to either call them on it or wonder why they
didn't call the "pros" on their faulty info. FUnny how my mother kept
spouting the "he's got WMD" line.

WHat WMD?

Just a few short years ago the media would have been bringing those
tough questions out and people would have been wondering why the pros
could have bungled it so badly. IF the pros didn't bungle it then we
were fed a line of BS. WH o's responsible for the line of BS and why?
THose would have been the questions. NOw it's just more sound bites
from talking heads and more bull**** because the public has a short
attention span and will forget that tough questions should be asked
after something such as this.

IT goes back to Nixon again, why do we choose to elect leaders who are
arrogant enough and foolish enough to let themselves be deluded that
the people will swallow this sh*t? IF you read WOodward and
Bernstein's account of how they cracked watergate it was more like
peeling an onion. AT any time they could have stopped the peeling and
Tricky DIck could have just said "I didn't authorize that. NOt on my
watch. All you b*stards are fired!!!" A lot of people would have
stood up and appluaded that one, but he stonewalled down to the bitter
end of what otherwise might have been a near stellar career as
PResident.

Hey at least Ollie admitted he shredded all the papers and with a rep
of good old Ed MEese's A.G.'s office right in the room with him <g>.

THen he got elected to public office a short time later <g>.

INstead the media ignores the big ones that our government pulls when
it drops the ball on such as this. INstead they do something else.
Like Will I'll quote TOm Waits.

"VOlume volume turn up the volume!"

>"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom
>Waits

Btw those are both from the same tune aren't they WIll?

was just getting up after a gig and drinking my morning coffee and
having a smoke when the local progressive music station played that
first time I heard it. Had coffee coming out my nose.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--