Organ recording in "dry" church

[normanstrong]

I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?

Thanks,

Norm Strong

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:19:43 GMT, "normanstrong"
> wrote:

>I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
>dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
>sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
>a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Norm Strong
>

There is plenty of software out there to do this. The Waves bundle of
Direct X plugins would be a good start. The problem is, though, that
organists simply don't play the same way in dry spaces as in
reverberant ones, so the effect of added reverb won't mimic a
recording made in a good space. It will probably be better than
nothing though.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Carey Carlan]

"normanstrong" > wrote in
news:zG_0d.178920$Fg5.22488@attbi_s53:

> I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
> dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
> sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
> a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?

It needs reverb added. Electronic fixes are expensive. Can you process
the file on a computer? There are several convolution or impulse reverb
simulators that are very realistic, and many impulse samples of various
real world nice rooms. The trick is to find one that combines well with
the ambient sound in your church. Even though you call it dead, there is
still some ambience that must be allowed for.

[Scott Dorsey]

normanstrong > wrote:
>I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
>dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
>sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
>a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?

1. Use fake reverb.

2. Use a reverb chamber. Take a pair of mikes and a pair of speakers to
a large lush-sounding hall, play it back and record the playback.

Either one of these is very easy to overdo. If you notice the reverb the
first time off, you have too much.
---scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

> There is plenty of software out there to do this.

Please be cautious and don't overdo it.

The trick is configure the reverb so that it sounds like the room itself. There
are no rules for this. Your brain is wired to do this analysis automatically.
You'll know when it's right.

If there is any question about "too much" or "too little," go with "too little."

[Bob Cain]

Carey Carlan wrote:

> There are several convolution or impulse reverb
> simulators that are very realistic, and many impulse samples of various
> real world nice rooms.

A couple of examples are Acoustic Modeler which is no longer
a separate DX product but rather a Sound Forge intrinsic,
Pristine Space from Voxengo

http://www.voxengo.com/

which is a VST convolution plugin and SIR

http://www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html

which is also a VST convolution plugin. The sites for these
products (other than Acoustic Modeled of course) will link
you to archives of IR's measured in various acoustic
environments.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:59:11 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> wrote:

>> There is plenty of software out there to do this.
>
>Please be cautious and don't overdo it.
>
>The trick is configure the reverb so that it sounds like the room itself. There
>are no rules for this. Your brain is wired to do this analysis automatically.
>You'll know when it's right.
>
>If there is any question about "too much" or "too little," go with "too little."

My way is always to apply it until it sounds great, then back it off
by half. Then leave it a few days, listen again and probably back it
off some more still.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Bob Cain]

Don Pearce wrote:

>
> My way is always to apply it until it sounds great, then back it off
> by half. Then leave it a few days, listen again and probably back it
> off some more still.

Fantastic advice. Thanks.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[david]

In article <zG_0d.178920$Fg5.22488@attbi_s53>, normanstrong
> wrote:

> I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
> dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
> sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
> a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Norm Strong



If you got a Mac:


http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/AltiverbMain.html






David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[Thomas Althouse]

You need the best reverb you can get your hands on. I have a super sounding
Roland SRV3030D that is just for that reason. Analog and digital processing,
all the control you can imagine and a wonderful sound.

Listen to playback on the same "full range" speakers that you would for
mastering and mixing and add it very slowly and listen carefully to soft and
loud passages both. I use the "stereo room" preconfigured settings on the
SRV303D as a starting point for a very natural sound. It does have varoius
"Church", "Hall" etc. precong points as well, if you want to start with that
very deep reverb of those environments.

Same as usual, stick with the best quality you can get and don't go
overboard.

Best of Luck.

Tom eh!



"david" > wrote in message
...
> In article <zG_0d.178920$Fg5.22488@attbi_s53>, normanstrong
> > wrote:
>
>> I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church with utterly
>> dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's exactly what the results
>> sounded like. What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
>> a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood building?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Norm Strong
>
>
>
> If you got a Mac:
>
>
> http://www.audioease.com/Pages/Altiverb/AltiverbMain.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> David Correia
> Celebration Sound
> Warren, Rhode Island
>
>
> www.CelebrationSound.com
>

[Peter Larsen]

normanstrong wrote:

> I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church
> with utterly dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's
> exactly what the results sounded like.

Hmm ...

> What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
> a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood
> building?

You may not want to do that, doing it to the extent you suggest may be
to overdo it. A skilled organ player will adapt the playing style,
including the tempi, to the acoustics, and possibly also select works
that match the actual room. That said, some locations with organs DO
need spatial assistance to sound credible, also because the dry
acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument) crest factor, and
thus lead to ear fatigue.

<spam>

There are all kinds of reverb tools out there that can help you, it does
however apply for all of them that it will take some time to learn to
use them. Listen to http://www.magiba.dk/Cykelturen.mp3 for an example
of what well applied post processing can do to a recording made in a
living room.

</spam>

> Norm Strong


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

normanstrong wrote:

> I made a recording of a beautiful pipe organ in a church
> with utterly dry, non-reverberant acoustics. And that's
> exactly what the results sounded like.

Hmm ...

> What electronic fix is there to make it sound more like
> a large stone sanctuary instead of a small carpeted, wood
> building?

You may not want to do that, doing it to the extent you suggest may be
to overdo it. A skilled organ player will adapt the playing style,
including the tempi, to the acoustics, and possibly also select works
that match the actual room. That said, some locations with organs DO
need spatial assistance to sound credible, also because the dry
acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument) crest factor, and
thus lead to ear fatigue.

<spam>

There are all kinds of reverb tools out there that can help you, it does
however apply for all of them that it will take some time to learn to
use them. Listen to http://www.magiba.dk/Cykelturen.mp3 for an example
of what well applied post processing can do to a recording made in a
living room.

</spam>

> Norm Strong


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Lars Farm]

Peter Larsen > wrote:

> the dry
> acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument) crest factor, and
> thus lead to ear fatigue.

What is a crest factor?

Lars

--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se

[Lars Farm]

Peter Larsen > wrote:

> the dry
> acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument) crest factor, and
> thus lead to ear fatigue.

What is a crest factor?

Lars

--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se

[Peter Larsen]

Lars Farm wrote:

> Peter Larsen > wrote:

>> the dry acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument)
>> crest factor, and thus lead to ear fatigue.

> What is a crest factor?

Not to be rude, but it would be a lot of re-typing of stuff previously
written .... please see:

http://search.msn.dk/results.aspx?FORM=SMCRT&q=%22crest%20factor%22

and

http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&q=%22crest+factor%22&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=lr%3Dlang_sv

and

http://groups.google.se/groups?q=%22crest%20factor%22&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wg

and also the very interesting:

http://groups.google.se/groups?q=%22crest+factor%22&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=jinx6568-324BCD.18075030062003%40fe01.atl2.webusenet.com&rnum=10

> Lars


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Lars Farm wrote:

> Peter Larsen > wrote:

>> the dry acoustics cause an unexpected (for the instrument)
>> crest factor, and thus lead to ear fatigue.

> What is a crest factor?

Not to be rude, but it would be a lot of re-typing of stuff previously
written .... please see:

http://search.msn.dk/results.aspx?FORM=SMCRT&q=%22crest%20factor%22

and

http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&q=%22crest+factor%22&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=lr%3Dlang_sv

and

http://groups.google.se/groups?q=%22crest%20factor%22&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wg

and also the very interesting:

http://groups.google.se/groups?q=%22crest+factor%22&hl=sv&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=jinx6568-324BCD.18075030062003%40fe01.atl2.webusenet.com&rnum=10

> Lars


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************