Turning to the dark side.

[CK]

Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
hard-disk recorder.

We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
are welcome.

TIA.

CK

[Rick Ruskin]

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
wrote:

>I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if you
>want to go that way.
>
>They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>can add a third unit later on.
>

Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
together.



Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Rick Ruskin]

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
wrote:

>I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if you
>want to go that way.
>
>They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>can add a third unit later on.
>

Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
together.



Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Jay Kadis]

In article >,
Rick Ruskin > wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
> wrote:
>
> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if you
> >want to go that way.
> >
> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
> >can add a third unit later on.
> >
>
> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
> together.
>
>
>
> Rick Ruskin
> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
> http://liondogmusic.com


DA-38s can convert the internal ABS time code (used to sync DTRS machines
together) to MTC with the MMC-38 converter, but they cannot chase external TC.
DA-78s have SMPTE/MTC in and out built-in and can chase external code.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[Jay Kadis]

In article >,
Rick Ruskin > wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
> wrote:
>
> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if you
> >want to go that way.
> >
> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
> >can add a third unit later on.
> >
>
> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
> together.
>
>
>
> Rick Ruskin
> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
> http://liondogmusic.com


DA-38s can convert the internal ABS time code (used to sync DTRS machines
together) to MTC with the MMC-38 converter, but they cannot chase external TC.
DA-78s have SMPTE/MTC in and out built-in and can chase external code.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[Rick Ruskin]

Use the proper sync cable between them and designate which is slave
and which is master. You can daisy chain as many as 16 machines.

RR



Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:16:08 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet> wrote:

>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed a
>TC track.
>
>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>
>JP
>
>"Rick Ruskin" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if
>you
>> >want to go that way.
>> >
>> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>> >can add a third unit later on.
>> >
>>
>> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
>> together.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Ruskin
>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>> http://liondogmusic.com
>

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Rick Ruskin]

Use the proper sync cable between them and designate which is slave
and which is master. You can daisy chain as many as 16 machines.

RR



Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:16:08 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet> wrote:

>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed a
>TC track.
>
>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>
>JP
>
>"Rick Ruskin" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if
>you
>> >want to go that way.
>> >
>> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>> >can add a third unit later on.
>> >
>>
>> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
>> together.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Ruskin
>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>> http://liondogmusic.com
>

Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Mitchell Benson]

CK wrote:
> Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
> to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
> hard-disk recorder.
>
> We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
> so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
> recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
> at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
> are welcome.
>
> TIA.
>
> CK
>
>
Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
board, so no more expansion cards to buy. Large hard drives for storage
are nothing nowadays, and it recoeds .wav files, so dumping into your
favorite software is no biggie.
You can get a new one online for a little over a thousand. I saw a used
one on eBay go for $810 just the other day.

Mitchell Benson
OKC Backup
www.okcbackup.com

[Mitchell Benson]

CK wrote:
> Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
> to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
> hard-disk recorder.
>
> We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
> so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
> recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
> at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
> are welcome.
>
> TIA.
>
> CK
>
>
Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
board, so no more expansion cards to buy. Large hard drives for storage
are nothing nowadays, and it recoeds .wav files, so dumping into your
favorite software is no biggie.
You can get a new one online for a little over a thousand. I saw a used
one on eBay go for $810 just the other day.

Mitchell Benson
OKC Backup
www.okcbackup.com

[EricK]

CK wrote:
> Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
> to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
> hard-disk recorder.
>
> We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
> so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
> recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
> at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
> are welcome.

I would take a serious look at the Alesis HD recorder. Very user
friendly, has the analog i/o and ADAT i/o built in. I think you get the
Fireport free as a rebate now. That will allow you to dump your tracks
into your computer via firewire.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

[EricK]

CK wrote:
> Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
> to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
> hard-disk recorder.
>
> We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
> so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
> recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
> at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
> are welcome.

I would take a serious look at the Alesis HD recorder. Very user
friendly, has the analog i/o and ADAT i/o built in. I think you get the
Fireport free as a rebate now. That will allow you to dump your tracks
into your computer via firewire.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

[ScotFraser]

>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed
>a
>TC track.
>
>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?

Just plug a sync cable between the two decks & set their machine IDs, tell
machine #2 it's the slave, & off you go.
Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed
>a
>TC track.
>
>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?

Just plug a sync cable between the two decks & set their machine IDs, tell
machine #2 it's the slave, & off you go.
Scott Fraser

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
> board

Negatory on the TDIF.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
> board

Negatory on the TDIF.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mitchell Benson]

Oops! Sorry.

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article > writes:
>
>
>>Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
>>board
>
>
> Negatory on the TDIF.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mitchell Benson]

Oops! Sorry.

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article > writes:
>
>
>>Look into a Mackie SDR24/96. ADAT, TDIF, and analog I/O are already on
>>board
>
>
> Negatory on the TDIF.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Rob Reedijk]

No one is wrong here.

You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.

Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
lo-fi effect?

Rob R.


Rick Ruskin > wrote:
> Use the proper sync cable between them and designate which is slave
> and which is master. You can daisy chain as many as 16 machines.

> RR



> Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:16:08 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet> wrote:

>>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed a
>>TC track.
>>
>>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>>
>>JP
>>
>>"Rick Ruskin" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>>> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if
>>you
>>> >want to go that way.
>>> >
>>> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>>> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>>> >can add a third unit later on.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
>>> together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Ruskin
>>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>>> http://liondogmusic.com
>>

> Rick Ruskin
> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
> http://liondogmusic.com

[Rob Reedijk]

No one is wrong here.

You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.

Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
lo-fi effect?

Rob R.


Rick Ruskin > wrote:
> Use the proper sync cable between them and designate which is slave
> and which is master. You can daisy chain as many as 16 machines.

> RR



> Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:16:08 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet> wrote:

>>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed a
>>TC track.
>>
>>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>>
>>JP
>>
>>"Rick Ruskin" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:36:31 +0200, "JP Gerard" <jpgerard@skynet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I recently A/B'd a DA38 with my hot rodded MS16 and although I wouldn't
>>> >replace my MS16 with a pair of DA38s, they're a totally valid option if
>>you
>>> >want to go that way.
>>> >
>>> >They can be used like an analogue deck, no prob... of course you have to
>>> >sacrifice one track for TC so it's really a 15 track system, but then you
>>> >can add a third unit later on.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Wrong. Tascam DTRS units do not require an audio track to sync
>>> together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Ruskin
>>> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
>>> http://liondogmusic.com
>>

> Rick Ruskin
> Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
> http://liondogmusic.com

[so what]

ScotFraser wrote:

>>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed
>>a
>>TC track.
>>
>>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>
>
> Just plug a sync cable between the two decks & set their machine IDs, tell
> machine #2 it's the slave, & off you go.
> Scott Fraser

Actually, machine #1 is always the Master.

Be careful, Los Angeles doesn't want you to use those terms, "Master"
and "Slave".

[so what]

ScotFraser wrote:

>>Thanks; I could swear the guy who brought the DA38 told me that you needed
>>a
>>TC track.
>>
>>You just connecte them together, or do you need an extra box?
>
>
> Just plug a sync cable between the two decks & set their machine IDs, tell
> machine #2 it's the slave, & off you go.
> Scott Fraser

Actually, machine #1 is always the Master.

Be careful, Los Angeles doesn't want you to use those terms, "Master"
and "Slave".

[ScotFraser]

>Actually, machine #1 is always the Master.>>

Yes, but you have to assign it to be machine #1. Of course with the DA88, the
master was machine #0.
>
>Be careful, Los Angeles doesn't want you to use those terms, "Master"
>and "Slave".>>

I can think of a few parts of the US where those designations might be a little
more charged than in LA, but still, I always downplayed the terminology when
dealing with clients.



Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

>Actually, machine #1 is always the Master.>>

Yes, but you have to assign it to be machine #1. Of course with the DA88, the
master was machine #0.
>
>Be careful, Los Angeles doesn't want you to use those terms, "Master"
>and "Slave".>>

I can think of a few parts of the US where those designations might be a little
more charged than in LA, but still, I always downplayed the terminology when
dealing with clients.



Scott Fraser

[Analogeezer]

"CK" > wrote in message >...
> Our MS-16 isn't going to hobble along any more, so we're forced to migrate
> to the late 20th Century and get ourselves some kind of new-fangled
> hard-disk recorder.
>
> We'll probably be using it much the same as we used our open reel machine,
> so we're unlikely to need much by way of editing. Just a decent multitrack
> recorder. At the moment we are thinking of the Fostex D2424 with regard to
> at some point in the future getting a 24-channel desk, but all suggestions
> are welcome.
>
> TIA.
>
> CK

I wouldn't go the digital tape route, all my friends that bought those
machines have had problems with them and these days repair costs are
often more than the machines are worth.

The Alesis HD-24 seems to get very positive reviews and because it
records on the drive in a linear fashion, you don't get the occasional
disk issues that a recorder that sprays the data around the drive
gets.

The Mackies don't seem to be that well supported by the company
anymore, and the Tascam is and has been overpriced.

The Fostex is supposed to be cool, but Fostex tech support is less
than great I have heard, and the manuals are incomprhensible.

Two major things you need to think about coming from the MS-16:

1. Were you running -10 unbalanced? If so the Alesis only does +4
balanced, I figure you could run unbalanced cabling maybe but the
signal level would be way over the -10 from the Tascam.

2. If you were running balanced from the MS-16, then those are Pin 3
hot I believe, whereas the standard most consoles, etc. expect to see
is Pin 2 hot.

You would need to redo your cabling.

I think the Fostex has unbalanced -10 outputs so that might be a
better option for you if you are currently running unbalanced.

Analogeezer

[Geoff Wood]

"Rob Reedijk" > wrote in message
...
>
> No one is wrong here.
>
> You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
> system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
> SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
> MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
> may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
> can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
> additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.
>
> Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
> sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
> limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
> lo-fi effect?

And where exactly would you plug the audio into it ?

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

"Rob Reedijk" > wrote in message
...
>
> No one is wrong here.
>
> You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
> system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
> SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
> MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
> may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
> can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
> additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.
>
> Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
> sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
> limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
> lo-fi effect?

And where exactly would you plug the audio into it ?

geoff

[Rob Reedijk]

Geoff Wood -nospam> wrote:

> "Rob Reedijk" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No one is wrong here.
>>
>> You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
>> system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
>> SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
>> MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
>> may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
>> can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
>> additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.
>>
>> Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
>> sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
>> limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
>> lo-fi effect?

> And where exactly would you plug the audio into it ?

The Timecode in jack. You can actually stripe a DA88 with an external
T/C generator.

Rob R.

[Rob Reedijk]

Geoff Wood -nospam> wrote:

> "Rob Reedijk" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> No one is wrong here.
>>
>> You can sync as many as 16 DA38/88/98s with the built in syncronisation
>> system. If you want to syncronise a DA38 to an external machine running
>> SMPTE, you MAY have to use up one track to do it. However, with the
>> MMC-38 option you can get a DA38 to output MTC which an external machine
>> may be able to sync to. If you have a DA88 with the SY88 option, you
>> can slave or master the DA88 with SMPTE. And in fact, it uses an
>> additional "9th track" on which to encode this sync track.
>>
>> Actually, out of curiousity, has anyone ever recorded audio to the
>> sync track on a DA88/SY88? I am guessing it is a severely bandwith
>> limited low bit depth low sampling frequency track. Maybe as a
>> lo-fi effect?

> And where exactly would you plug the audio into it ?

The Timecode in jack. You can actually stripe a DA88 with an external
T/C generator.

Rob R.