Alanis on Soundstage

[Mike Rivers]

I guess maybe I've never consciously heard Alanis Morisette before,
but I tuned in Soundstage this evening out of boredom and curiosity.
At least I guess it was Alanis. That's what the program guide said.
I missed the opening and turned it off before the closing credits.

It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English - combination
of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy drums , I think.
And does she really play guitar with gloves on? (not that it looked like
we could hear her guitar in the mix anyway) Her vocals sounded to me
like the caricature of Celene Dion that they do on Mad TV.

Soundstage is usually pretty good audiowise. Maybe it's just the shows
I choose to watch. Pop music - gotta love it!

Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
first (big hit) record on ADATs.





--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Nathan West]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English - combination
> of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy drums , I think.

I thought so as well. I couldn't' for the life of me figure out what she and
her audio team were trying to put across. I only lasted 2 1/2 songs.

> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

I think you misspelled *distorting* as *recording*.

--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"

[Nathan West]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English - combination
> of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy drums , I think.

I thought so as well. I couldn't' for the life of me figure out what she and
her audio team were trying to put across. I only lasted 2 1/2 songs.

> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

I think you misspelled *distorting* as *recording*.

--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"

[Mondoslug1]

Nathan West wrote:

>I thought so as well. I couldn't' for the life of me figure out what she and
>her audio team were trying to put across.

Does her "audio team" actually have anything to do with this taping? It's hands
off on some TV stuff.






I only lasted 2 1/2 songs.
>
>> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
>> first (big hit) record on ADATs.
>
>I think you misspelled *distorting* as *recording*.
>
>--
>Nathan
>
>"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Me at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm

[Mondoslug1]

Nathan West wrote:

>I thought so as well. I couldn't' for the life of me figure out what she and
>her audio team were trying to put across.

Does her "audio team" actually have anything to do with this taping? It's hands
off on some TV stuff.






I only lasted 2 1/2 songs.
>
>> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
>> first (big hit) record on ADATs.
>
>I think you misspelled *distorting* as *recording*.
>
>--
>Nathan
>
>"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Me at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm

[Nathan West]

Mondoslug1 wrote:

> Does her "audio team" actually have anything to do with this taping? It's hands
> off on some TV stuff.

Alanis has it in her rider that her company provides the FOH, Monitors and Media
feeds for her events. From personal experience her management will not move on that
item.


--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"

[Nathan West]

Mondoslug1 wrote:

> Does her "audio team" actually have anything to do with this taping? It's hands
> off on some TV stuff.

Alanis has it in her rider that her company provides the FOH, Monitors and Media
feeds for her events. From personal experience her management will not move on that
item.


--
Nathan

"Imagine if there were no Hypothetical Situations"

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094692415k@trad>...
> I guess maybe I've never consciously heard Alanis Morisette before,
> but I tuned in Soundstage this evening out of boredom and curiosity.
> At least I guess it was Alanis. That's what the program guide said.
> I missed the opening and turned it off before the closing credits.
>
> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English - combination
> of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy drums , I think.
> And does she really play guitar with gloves on? (not that it looked like
> we could hear her guitar in the mix anyway) Her vocals sounded to me
> like the caricature of Celene Dion that they do on Mad TV.
>
> Soundstage is usually pretty good audiowise. Maybe it's just the shows
> I choose to watch. Pop music - gotta love it!
>
> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

Far more lame than this....I caught a glimpse of some LL Cool J thing,
I like him in the movies ok, but talk about a Hip-Hop carictature....

Basically he just walked around the stage, doing that arm waving over
the head thing they all do, and then would grab his junk periodically
like he really had to ****.

Maybe at some point this was cutting edge, but to me it's about as
beat as rock guitar guys in satin bell bottoms with dragons on the
sides.

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094692415k@trad>...
> I guess maybe I've never consciously heard Alanis Morisette before,
> but I tuned in Soundstage this evening out of boredom and curiosity.
> At least I guess it was Alanis. That's what the program guide said.
> I missed the opening and turned it off before the closing credits.
>
> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English - combination
> of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy drums , I think.
> And does she really play guitar with gloves on? (not that it looked like
> we could hear her guitar in the mix anyway) Her vocals sounded to me
> like the caricature of Celene Dion that they do on Mad TV.
>
> Soundstage is usually pretty good audiowise. Maybe it's just the shows
> I choose to watch. Pop music - gotta love it!
>
> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

Far more lame than this....I caught a glimpse of some LL Cool J thing,
I like him in the movies ok, but talk about a Hip-Hop carictature....

Basically he just walked around the stage, doing that arm waving over
the head thing they all do, and then would grab his junk periodically
like he really had to ****.

Maybe at some point this was cutting edge, but to me it's about as
beat as rock guitar guys in satin bell bottoms with dragons on the
sides.

Analogeezer

[Blind Joni]

>Far more lame than this....I caught a glimpse of some LL Cool J thing,
>I like him in the movies ok, but talk about a Hip-Hop carictature....
>
>Basically he just walked around the stage, doing that arm waving over
>the head thing they all do, and then would grab his junk periodically
>like he really had to ****.
>
>Maybe at some point this was cutting edge, but to me it's about as
>beat as rock guitar guys in satin bell bottoms with dragons on the
>sides.

This is the state of Hip Hop and even some newer R&B...all about attitude and
little or no musical talent required. I saw a male "singer" on one of the late
night shows last night..I was embarassed. This would not happen 20 years ago.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

>Far more lame than this....I caught a glimpse of some LL Cool J thing,
>I like him in the movies ok, but talk about a Hip-Hop carictature....
>
>Basically he just walked around the stage, doing that arm waving over
>the head thing they all do, and then would grab his junk periodically
>like he really had to ****.
>
>Maybe at some point this was cutting edge, but to me it's about as
>beat as rock guitar guys in satin bell bottoms with dragons on the
>sides.

This is the state of Hip Hop and even some newer R&B...all about attitude and
little or no musical talent required. I saw a male "singer" on one of the late
night shows last night..I was embarassed. This would not happen 20 years ago.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?

I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
meaning out of them.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On 9 Sep 2004 15:30:57 -0400, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
>> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.
>

It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
aren't especially voice friendly.

Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch. Yet
there's seldom any problem with vocal intellegibility--please don't cite
particular past-their-prime tenors who've been singing on their
reputation since the 60's.

Once you get used to listening that way, you'll notice pop singers doing
"Sing-glish" as well, albeit not to the same degree, as they aren't
generally working as hard to compete with an orchestra.

I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
so perhaps it was a problem with the production?

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On 9 Sep 2004 15:30:57 -0400, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
>> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.
>

It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
aren't especially voice friendly.

Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch. Yet
there's seldom any problem with vocal intellegibility--please don't cite
particular past-their-prime tenors who've been singing on their
reputation since the 60's.

Once you get used to listening that way, you'll notice pop singers doing
"Sing-glish" as well, albeit not to the same degree, as they aren't
generally working as hard to compete with an orchestra.

I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
so perhaps it was a problem with the production?

[MacKerr]

Mike Rivers:
<<
I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear. >><BR><BR>

I'm pretty sure you've listened to Robert Plant, do the words "Stairway to
Heaven" ring a bell. I did a live show with Alanis where her soundman did
everything he could think of to make her sound like crap. Totally
unintelligable. Between her mic and the 2 guitars with 60 fx pedals between
them it was not a good time. Other artists on the same show sounded great. I
also did her episode of VH1 Storytellers, and she sounded fine, but the TV part
was mixed someone from Effanel, either Randy Ezratty or John Harris IIRC. It
sounded fine on TV.

Mac Kerr

[MacKerr]

Mike Rivers:
<<
I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear. >><BR><BR>

I'm pretty sure you've listened to Robert Plant, do the words "Stairway to
Heaven" ring a bell. I did a live show with Alanis where her soundman did
everything he could think of to make her sound like crap. Totally
unintelligable. Between her mic and the 2 guitars with 60 fx pedals between
them it was not a good time. Other artists on the same show sounded great. I
also did her episode of VH1 Storytellers, and she sounded fine, but the TV part
was mixed someone from Effanel, either Randy Ezratty or John Harris IIRC. It
sounded fine on TV.

Mac Kerr

[**bg**]

Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
enunciators and pronouncers of all time.

One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.

Worth studying.

-bg-


--
www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca
www.lchb.ca


"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles > wrote in message
news:cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05...
> On 9 Sep 2004 15:30:57 -0400, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >
> > In article >
> > writes:
> >
> >> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> >> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
> >
> > I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> > understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> > Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> > Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> > theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> > them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> > meaning out of them.
> >
>
> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.
>
> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch. Yet
> there's seldom any problem with vocal intellegibility--please don't cite
> particular past-their-prime tenors who've been singing on their
> reputation since the 60's.
>
> Once you get used to listening that way, you'll notice pop singers doing
> "Sing-glish" as well, albeit not to the same degree, as they aren't
> generally working as hard to compete with an orchestra.
>
> I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
> so perhaps it was a problem with the production?
>

[**bg**]

Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
enunciators and pronouncers of all time.

One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.

Worth studying.

-bg-


--
www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca
www.lchb.ca


"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles > wrote in message
news:cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05...
> On 9 Sep 2004 15:30:57 -0400, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >
> > In article >
> > writes:
> >
> >> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> >> a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
> >
> > I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> > understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> > Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> > Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> > theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> > them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> > meaning out of them.
> >
>
> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.
>
> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch. Yet
> there's seldom any problem with vocal intellegibility--please don't cite
> particular past-their-prime tenors who've been singing on their
> reputation since the 60's.
>
> Once you get used to listening that way, you'll notice pop singers doing
> "Sing-glish" as well, albeit not to the same degree, as they aren't
> generally working as hard to compete with an orchestra.
>
> I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
> so perhaps it was a problem with the production?
>

[Mike Rivers]

In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05> writes:

> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.

That's about the best excuse for inarticulate singing that I've heard
yet. Gotta remember that whenever someone accuses me of mumbling when
I try to sing.

> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch.

Sorry, I can't stand opera singers, and most of them don't sing in
English anyway. Whatever point you're trying to prove, it's not
working on me.

> I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
> so perhaps it was a problem with the production?

Depends on what you lump into "production." As I said, when she was
speaking (which was pretty much limited to introducing band members,
as much as I heard) her voice was perfectly clear and easy to
understand. I think some of what I was noticing was her vocalization
of non-verbal sounds beween words, so there was never a moment of
silence and it was hard to tell when a word ended and the next one
started. Maybe I just needed better drugs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05> writes:

> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.

That's about the best excuse for inarticulate singing that I've heard
yet. Gotta remember that whenever someone accuses me of mumbling when
I try to sing.

> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch.

Sorry, I can't stand opera singers, and most of them don't sing in
English anyway. Whatever point you're trying to prove, it's not
working on me.

> I never had trouble understanding Robert Plant, nor Alanis' recordings,
> so perhaps it was a problem with the production?

Depends on what you lump into "production." As I said, when she was
speaking (which was pretty much limited to introducing band members,
as much as I heard) her voice was perfectly clear and easy to
understand. I think some of what I was noticing was her vocalization
of non-verbal sounds beween words, so there was never a moment of
silence and it was hard to tell when a word ended and the next one
started. Maybe I just needed better drugs.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[TarBabyTunes]

I couldn't understand her either, but I was able to get a lot of the words from
lip-reading the first four or five rows of the audience.

stv

[TarBabyTunes]

I couldn't understand her either, but I was able to get a lot of the words from
lip-reading the first four or five rows of the audience.

stv

[Andre Majorel]

On 2004-09-10, Mike Rivers > wrote:

> In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05> writes:
>
>> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
>> aren't especially voice friendly.
>
> That's about the best excuse for inarticulate singing that I've heard
> yet. Gotta remember that whenever someone accuses me of mumbling when
> I try to sing.
>
>> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
>> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch.
>
> Sorry, I can't stand opera singers, and most of them don't sing in
> English anyway. Whatever point you're trying to prove, it's not
> working on me.

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

Not that I'm comparing Alanis Morrissette with opera singers. In
fact, I don't even know what her voice _sounds_like_.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.

[Andre Majorel]

On 2004-09-10, Mike Rivers > wrote:

> In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05> writes:
>
>> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
>> aren't especially voice friendly.
>
> That's about the best excuse for inarticulate singing that I've heard
> yet. Gotta remember that whenever someone accuses me of mumbling when
> I try to sing.
>
>> Take a listen to a world-class opera singer, and listen CAREFULLY to
>> what they're actually singing, especially as they go up in pitch.
>
> Sorry, I can't stand opera singers, and most of them don't sing in
> English anyway. Whatever point you're trying to prove, it's not
> working on me.

To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
sound the way they do.

Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
language and 2) all the formants are off.

Not that I'm comparing Alanis Morrissette with opera singers. In
fact, I don't even know what her voice _sounds_like_.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.

[Kent Kingery]

"agent86" > wrote in message
. ..

> Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....
>
> ...amplified.

....with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.

Kent

[Kent Kingery]

"agent86" > wrote in message
. ..

> Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....
>
> ...amplified.

....with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.

Kent

[agent86]

Andre Majorel wrote:

> Not that I'm comparing Alanis Morrissette with opera singers. In
> fact, I don't even know what her voice _sounds_like_.
>

Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....

...amplified.

[agent86]

Andre Majorel wrote:

> Not that I'm comparing Alanis Morrissette with opera singers. In
> fact, I don't even know what her voice _sounds_like_.
>

Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....

...amplified.

[Peter Kaersaa]

In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05>, "U-CDK_CHARLES
\\Charles" <"Charles > says...
> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.

Now that is funny :)
I know a lot of singers here in Denmark, 90% of them sing in
English.
Nr. one reason is that English is so easy and soft to sing in.
There are not many weird sounds in English compared to Danish.
Nr. two reason is if you make a hit it has potential to sell
over most the world and not just some few thousand local.
I guess it depends where in the world you're from, foreign
language can be a nice thing when the lyrics are crap.

Alanis was on German television the other day, some remix
playback of "black velvet", the audience absolutely loved her,
standing ovations and all.

--
/ Peter Kaersaa

[Peter Kaersaa]

In article <cs20d.371$AC.222@trndny05>, "U-CDK_CHARLES
\\Charles" <"Charles > says...
> It's hard to sing in English. We have all sorts of weird sounds that
> aren't especially voice friendly.

Now that is funny :)
I know a lot of singers here in Denmark, 90% of them sing in
English.
Nr. one reason is that English is so easy and soft to sing in.
There are not many weird sounds in English compared to Danish.
Nr. two reason is if you make a hit it has potential to sell
over most the world and not just some few thousand local.
I guess it depends where in the world you're from, foreign
language can be a nice thing when the lyrics are crap.

Alanis was on German television the other day, some remix
playback of "black velvet", the audience absolutely loved her,
standing ovations and all.

--
/ Peter Kaersaa

[Geoff Wood]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> I guess maybe I've never consciously heard Alanis Morisette before,
> but I tuned in Soundstage this evening out of boredom and curiosity.
> At least I guess it was Alanis. That's what the program guide said.
> I missed the opening and turned it off before the closing credits.
>
> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English -
> combination of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy
> drums , I think. And does she really play guitar with gloves on? (not
> that it looked like we could hear her guitar in the mix anyway) Her
> vocals sounded to me like the caricature of Celene Dion that they do
> on Mad TV.
>
> Soundstage is usually pretty good audiowise. Maybe it's just the shows
> I choose to watch. Pop music - gotta love it!
>
> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

.... which just goes to show that it's the music, not the technological
sales-point-du-jour. The Beatles did it with 4-tracks.

FWIW I saw her here in NZ about 6 years ago and she/they were/was great.
She didn't have gloves then, but shook her big hair (head) around a lot....

goeff

[Geoff Wood]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> I guess maybe I've never consciously heard Alanis Morisette before,
> but I tuned in Soundstage this evening out of boredom and curiosity.
> At least I guess it was Alanis. That's what the program guide said.
> I missed the opening and turned it off before the closing credits.
>
> It was hard to tell for sure if she was singing in English -
> combination of poor articulation, vocal mannerisms, and too-splashy
> drums , I think. And does she really play guitar with gloves on? (not
> that it looked like we could hear her guitar in the mix anyway) Her
> vocals sounded to me like the caricature of Celene Dion that they do
> on Mad TV.
>
> Soundstage is usually pretty good audiowise. Maybe it's just the shows
> I choose to watch. Pop music - gotta love it!
>
> Oh, well. Alanis got famous in the audio community for recording her
> first (big hit) record on ADATs.

.... which just goes to show that it's the music, not the technological
sales-point-du-jour. The Beatles did it with 4-tracks.

FWIW I saw her here in NZ about 6 years ago and she/they were/was great.
She didn't have gloves then, but shook her big hair (head) around a lot....

goeff

[Geoff Wood]

**bg** wrote:
> Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop
> vocal enunciators and pronouncers of all time.
>
> One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.
>
> Worth studying.

Yeah.. Great annunciation.

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

**bg** wrote:
> Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop
> vocal enunciators and pronouncers of all time.
>
> One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.
>
> Worth studying.

Yeah.. Great annunciation.

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates
>> in a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words.

It goes (in case you missed it) "There's a lady who's sure ...." . Now ,
take it a way Bob (gratuitious FZ quote, to bolster credentials),
"neeeeahhhh waa hhhhhooooowt", but with more nose. But that's great too.

geoff

PS , It's late Friday night here, so excuse my ramblings.

[Geoff Wood]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates
>> in a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words.

It goes (in case you missed it) "There's a lady who's sure ...." . Now ,
take it a way Bob (gratuitious FZ quote, to bolster credentials),
"neeeeahhhh waa hhhhhooooowt", but with more nose. But that's great too.

geoff

PS , It's late Friday night here, so excuse my ramblings.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I'm pretty sure you've listened to Robert Plant, do the words "Stairway to
> Heaven" ring a bell.

Oh, OK. I guess I have. I wasn't sure what the song was about, but I
could understand what the words were.

> I did a live show with Alanis where her soundman did
> everything he could think of to make her sound like crap. Totally
> unintelligable. Between her mic and the 2 guitars with 60 fx pedals between
> them it was not a good time.

It must be a "rebel" thing. She has a reputation for doing her own
thing, her own way. I'll bet she knew what she sounded like and
approved of it.

> also did her episode of VH1 Storytellers, and she sounded fine, but the TV part
> was mixed someone from Effanel, either Randy Ezratty or John Harris IIRC. It
> sounded fine on TV.

Shhhh . . don't tell her.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I'm pretty sure you've listened to Robert Plant, do the words "Stairway to
> Heaven" ring a bell.

Oh, OK. I guess I have. I wasn't sure what the song was about, but I
could understand what the words were.

> I did a live show with Alanis where her soundman did
> everything he could think of to make her sound like crap. Totally
> unintelligable. Between her mic and the 2 guitars with 60 fx pedals between
> them it was not a good time.

It must be a "rebel" thing. She has a reputation for doing her own
thing, her own way. I'll bet she knew what she sounded like and
approved of it.

> also did her episode of VH1 Storytellers, and she sounded fine, but the TV part
> was mixed someone from Effanel, either Randy Ezratty or John Harris IIRC. It
> sounded fine on TV.

Shhhh . . don't tell her.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.


You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

I think Dylan has some great lyrics, but I have a really hard time
copping what he's saying....same with Bobby P but heh I still enjoyed
his singing.

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.


You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

I think Dylan has some great lyrics, but I have a really hard time
copping what he's saying....same with Bobby P but heh I still enjoyed
his singing.

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.

I'm not defending Alannis (I'm not a big fan) but you could make this
assertation about blues and bluegrass vocalists as well.

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.

I'm not defending Alannis (I'm not a big fan) but you could make this
assertation about blues and bluegrass vocalists as well.

Analogeezer

[Scott Dorsey]

Andre Majorel > wrote:
>
>To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
>means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
>find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
>put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
>sound the way they do.

Yup.

>Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
>most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
>language and 2) all the formants are off.

This is true (as most Gilbert and Sullivan operettas will show). But,
I don't think English is any worse than German in this regard. In fact,
I think it's a whole lot better than German. And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Andre Majorel > wrote:
>
>To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
>means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
>find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
>put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
>sound the way they do.

Yup.

>Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
>most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
>language and 2) all the formants are off.

This is true (as most Gilbert and Sullivan operettas will show). But,
I don't think English is any worse than German in this regard. In fact,
I think it's a whole lot better than German. And there is a very large
body of German opera tradition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Analogeezer > wrote:
>
>You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

"Even a rich man,
Is a pauper at times,
Compared with the man
With a fortified wine."


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Analogeezer > wrote:
>
>You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

"Even a rich man,
Is a pauper at times,
Compared with the man
With a fortified wine."


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Cooper]

Kent Kingery wrote:

> > Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....
> >
> > ...amplified.
>
> ...with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.


Which is funny, because she's 30.

[Don Cooper]

Kent Kingery wrote:

> > Imagine fingernails on a chalkboard....
> >
> > ...amplified.
>
> ...with a large dose of whiny teenage girl thrown in for good measure.


Which is funny, because she's 30.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
> means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
> find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
> put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
> sound the way they do.
>
> Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
> most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
> language and 2) all the formants are off.

OK, Mr. Lingist, I'll take your word for it. Is that why it's easier
to understand the words on the record of La Bamba than on Louie Louie?

On the other hand, Cab Calloway sounded fine in front of a band with a
full horn section. And the "heidy-hi-heidy-ho" nonsense words didn't
get in the way of the real lyrics either.

I once recorded an indian pow-wow. After listening to their singing
for three days straight, I got so that I could separate the "filler"
syllables (which is what as kids we sang when we imitated indians)
from the real text. But they couldn't pay me enough to listen to
Alanis Morrisette for three days.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> To be heard over an orchestra you have to be very loud, which
> means that 1) you need vowels, not consonants, 2) you need to
> find a spot somewhere in the mids where the orchestra doesn't
> put out much energy but you do. That's what makes opera singers
> sound the way they do.
>
> Now try to do that in English. You're not going to be at your
> most intelligible because 1) English is a very "consonantic"
> language and 2) all the formants are off.

OK, Mr. Lingist, I'll take your word for it. Is that why it's easier
to understand the words on the record of La Bamba than on Louie Louie?

On the other hand, Cab Calloway sounded fine in front of a band with a
full horn section. And the "heidy-hi-heidy-ho" nonsense words didn't
get in the way of the real lyrics either.

I once recorded an indian pow-wow. After listening to their singing
for three days straight, I got so that I could separate the "filler"
syllables (which is what as kids we sang when we imitated indians)
from the real text. But they couldn't pay me enough to listen to
Alanis Morrisette for three days.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> And there is a very large
> body of German opera tradition.

Heh, heh.

Glenn D.

[Glenn Dowdy]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> And there is a very large
> body of German opera tradition.

Heh, heh.

Glenn D.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!

Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
recordings. They must be doing something right.

But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Don Cooper]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


Nobody does.

[Don Cooper]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?


Nobody does.

[Carey Carlan]

Don Cooper > wrote in
:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

> Nobody does.

It means "I've got these three beats to fill in this song and can't think
of any significant lyrics to put there."

[Carey Carlan]

Don Cooper > wrote in
:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

> Nobody does.

It means "I've got these three beats to fill in this song and can't think
of any significant lyrics to put there."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
> > But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

> Nobody does.


Well, it ain't no town and it ain't no city.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Mike Rivers wrote:
> > But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

> Nobody does.


Well, it ain't no town and it ain't no city.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mr Natural]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
>
>>You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!
>
>
> Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.
>
> Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
> past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
> recordings. They must be doing something right.
>
> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

[Mr Natural]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
>
>>You can understand Dylan's words? That's friggin amazing!!!
>
>
> Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.
>
> Incidentally, I've noticed that lyrics that have escaped me in the
> past have become clear on recent reissues of some of those old time
> recordings. They must be doing something right.
>
> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?

If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.

-- Fred

[Paul Stamler]

> Mike Rivers wrote:

> > Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

Peace,
Paul "Take your feet out the sand and stick 'em in the mud"

[Paul Stamler]

> Mike Rivers wrote:

> > Well, I've had a lot of practice with Lead Belly and Uncle Dave Macon.

Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
you realize that you don't understand the words.

Peace,
Paul "Take your feet out the sand and stick 'em in the mud"

[Carlos Alden]

in article . net, Mr Natural
at wrote on 9/11/04 8:46 AM:

>> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?
>
> If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.
>
> -- Fred

Alright. A Zap comic book fan. I've still got the first five.

Carlos

[Carlos Alden]

in article . net, Mr Natural
at wrote on 9/11/04 8:46 AM:

>> But does anyone know what diddy wah diddy means?
>
> If you don't know by now, don't mess with it.
>
> -- Fred

Alright. A Zap comic book fan. I've still got the first five.

Carlos

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
> you realize that you don't understand the words.

I've felt the same about some Beatles songs.


"They were scouts in the Rebel Army, and their size was thirty-four"



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the words,
> you realize that you don't understand the words.

I've felt the same about some Beatles songs.


"They were scouts in the Rebel Army, and their size was thirty-four"



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Doc]

"**bg**" > wrote in message
news:iK50d.355274$M95.178571@pd7tw1no...
> Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
> enunciators and pronouncers of all time.
>
> One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.
>
> Worth studying.

If you say so. Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
universe they occupy.

Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

[Doc]

"**bg**" > wrote in message
news:iK50d.355274$M95.178571@pd7tw1no...
> Frank Sinatra and his training brought us one of the greatest pop vocal
> enunciators and pronouncers of all time.
>
> One of the finest vocalists ever was Frank Sinatra.
>
> Worth studying.

If you say so. Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
universe they occupy.

Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

[hank alrich]

Doc wrote:

> It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
> I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
> syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... <g>

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

--
ha

[hank alrich]

Doc wrote:

> It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
> I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
> syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."

And the names of those singers were?... <g>

Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
recognized.

--
ha

[Doc]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Doc wrote:
>
> > It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
> > I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on
strange
> > syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."
>
> And the names of those singers were?... <g>

Sure, that's a truly meaningful statement. I guess since you're implying
that fame and fortune are obvious indicators of talent then Britney Spears
and Madonna must be superb.

Anyone who's been around musicians to any extent knows there are scores of
superb, unheralded talents who are far better and more accomplished at what
they do than many who are famous.

> Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
> recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.

[Doc]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Doc wrote:
>
> > It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
> > I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on
strange
> > syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."
>
> And the names of those singers were?... <g>

Sure, that's a truly meaningful statement. I guess since you're implying
that fame and fortune are obvious indicators of talent then Britney Spears
and Madonna must be superb.

Anyone who's been around musicians to any extent knows there are scores of
superb, unheralded talents who are far better and more accomplished at what
they do than many who are famous.

> Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
> recognized.

Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.

[hank alrich]

Doc wrote:

> > Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
> > recognized.

> Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.


You'd have to move beyond the concept that what you like is good and
what you don't like isn't good in order to undersand Frank Sinatra's
singing skills. You might appreciate reading up on some of the sessions
in which he sang; that'd give you an idea of what he brought to the
party.

--
ha

[hank alrich]

Doc wrote:

> > Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
> > recognized.

> Great. Too bad he wasn't much of a singer.


You'd have to move beyond the concept that what you like is good and
what you don't like isn't good in order to undersand Frank Sinatra's
singing skills. You might appreciate reading up on some of the sessions
in which he sang; that'd give you an idea of what he brought to the
party.

--
ha

[tony espinoza]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.

back in March, i recorded and mixed 6 songs with Alanis for iTunes (3
from the new record and 3 old hits). we did them here in my studio,
and she did not bring her own "sound guy". i did not let them use any
of their standard broadcast rig (Audix mics, ACO DI's and such).

to be honest, i didn't know what to expect going in. but she nailed 6
songs in a row all on the first take. even if you weren't a fan, you
had to be impressed. she does speak and sing with a funny canadian
dialect at times. and she sings kinda weird -- out of the side of her
mouth on certain words. it worked fine on the C12, but i can imagine
some crappy live mics not being so clear. she likes compression and
lots of reverb. in fact, that was the only correction she gave me on
my rough mixes -- she wanted more reverb on the vocal. i was
surprised when she asked for 6ms pre and a 1.7 sec decay (plate). (i
used that as a guideline ;-) i wonder if the TV mix had a combination
of bad mic and reverb problem - on some reverbs short predelays can
mucked up intelligibility.

those songs are for sale now on iTunes as "iTunes Originals" if you
wanna hear for yourself. "Everything" is my favorite of the bunch.
you can even hear the song get better as it goes because it was the
first song in the set and i was adjusting things as she was
performing. those words were the first out of her mouth into the
mic... (no warm up for me to set things up with) but it really was a
great take.

-tE
------------------------------------------
Tony Espinoza
SF SOUNDWORKS
http://www.sfsoundworks.com
------------------------------------------
Featuring the only SSL 9K in San Francisco

[tony espinoza]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1094751136k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > That's her style Mike, she sort of pronounces words and articulates in
> > a weird sort of way....never hurt Dylan or Robert Plant did it?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever listened to Robert Plant, but at least I can
> understand Dylan's words. I really couldn't understand much of what
> Alanis was singing on this show. Her speaking voice was very clear.
> Perhaps someone should tell her about this problem. Or maybe the
> theory is that her songs are so intellectual (I'm told that most of
> them are) that you really have to concentrate in order to get the
> meaning out of them.

back in March, i recorded and mixed 6 songs with Alanis for iTunes (3
from the new record and 3 old hits). we did them here in my studio,
and she did not bring her own "sound guy". i did not let them use any
of their standard broadcast rig (Audix mics, ACO DI's and such).

to be honest, i didn't know what to expect going in. but she nailed 6
songs in a row all on the first take. even if you weren't a fan, you
had to be impressed. she does speak and sing with a funny canadian
dialect at times. and she sings kinda weird -- out of the side of her
mouth on certain words. it worked fine on the C12, but i can imagine
some crappy live mics not being so clear. she likes compression and
lots of reverb. in fact, that was the only correction she gave me on
my rough mixes -- she wanted more reverb on the vocal. i was
surprised when she asked for 6ms pre and a 1.7 sec decay (plate). (i
used that as a guideline ;-) i wonder if the TV mix had a combination
of bad mic and reverb problem - on some reverbs short predelays can
mucked up intelligibility.

those songs are for sale now on iTunes as "iTunes Originals" if you
wanna hear for yourself. "Everything" is my favorite of the bunch.
you can even hear the song get better as it goes because it was the
first song in the set and i was adjusting things as she was
performing. those words were the first out of her mouth into the
mic... (no warm up for me to set things up with) but it really was a
great take.

-tE
------------------------------------------
Tony Espinoza
SF SOUNDWORKS
http://www.sfsoundworks.com
------------------------------------------
Featuring the only SSL 9K in San Francisco

[Mike Rivers]

In article .net> writes:

> [Sinatra] Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
> the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
> of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
> etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
> musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
> many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
> universe they occupy.

The thing is that he always worked with people who made him sound good
so he didn't have to do anything but show up and sing. That's
different from one person who writes a song, plays the guitar and
keyboard and drums and sax, and records it in his basement.

> Do you actually like the way he sounded during the "Rat Pack" era?

It's a stylistic thing. If you were into the style, I guess you liked
it. Kind of like Alanis Morisette or Bob Dylan. But it's kind of hard
to find fault with Tony Bennett or Ella Fitzgerald when it comes to
singers.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich > wrote:
>Doc wrote:
>
>> It's not like the songs he did were particularly difficult to enunciate.
>> I've actually heard singers criticize him for putting emphasis on strange
>> syllables - "I've gotchew...under my skinnnnnnnnnn..."
>
>And the names of those singers were?... <g>

Rudy Vallee for one.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1094924133k@trad...
>
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> Yes, but with Uncle Dave, a lot of the time, once you understand the
>> words,
>> you realize that you don't understand the words.
>
> I've felt the same about some Beatles songs.
>
>
> "They were scouts in the Rebel Army, and their size was thirty-four"

"You don't actually have to be able to understand the lyrics, you've just
got to feel like you could
if you wanted to" – Chuck Plotkin (Producer for Bruce Springsteen)

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> And the names of those singers were?... <g>
>
> Frank had what is called a "style", an individual presentation easily
> recognized.

Amen. One of the best phrasists there ever was.

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich > wrote:
>You'd have to move beyond the concept that what you like is good and
>what you don't like isn't good in order to undersand Frank Sinatra's
>singing skills. You might appreciate reading up on some of the sessions
>in which he sang; that'd give you an idea of what he brought to the
>party.

Sixty years ago, they'd have been very careful to make the distinction
that Sinatra wasn't a singer at all, but a crooner. With the proliferation
of vocal styles today, a lot of these distinctions have fallen by the
wayside, but they are still important to help you think about why he does
certain things.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[JoVee]

in article znr1094949649k@trad, Mike Rivers at wrote on
9/12/04 5:49 AM:

>
> In article .net>
> writes:
>
>> [Sinatra] Seemed to me his chops such as they were folded at least by
>> the early 50's and he grunted his way through the last 4 1/2 decades or so
>> of his career. Take away the stellar bands he always had, Nelson Riddle,
>> etc. and you have a guy with leather vocal cords and not that much actual
>> musical knowledge. Of course, I guess he's not unusual in that it seems that
>> many "stars" like that are typically the least musically gifted among the
>> universe they occupy.

not hardly.
you need to hear the Libe In Australia rcord.
Frank fronting the Red Norvo group with Frank's piano guy in attendance.
no frills. no nonsense (except what cames form Frank between songs). killer.
Frank was never a Bennet or Torme, never pretended to be, but he inarguably
-knew- how to get a song across on record or in concert.

[hank alrich]

tony espinoza wrote:

> those words were the first out of her mouth into the
> mic... (no warm up for me to set things up with) but it really was a
> great take.

Those words are a short sidebar to the Abbey Road thread, and a little
peephole into the reality that separates a competent professional and
facility from somebody in their bedroom with a bunch of new and
inexpensive digital kit.

Thanks, Tony.

--
ha