Systemdek IIX

[Cosworth]

I have the opportunity to pick up this turntable for a song, but know little
about it. I looked it over and it seemed in decent shape. I had to
re-route the belt (it had gotten all tangled in the undercarriage), and it
needs a new cartridge, but other than that it's picture perfect. It has an
original tonearm, also Systemdek.

I already have a Thorens TD124 and a B&O table (standard tonearm, not linear
tracking), and I'm sure I'll grab this Systemdek up and listen for myself,
but I'm curious what kind of reputation it has and how I should expect it to
compare with my Thorens.

Thanks,

Bill Balmer

[Stephen Sank]

The Systemdek was basically a cheap attempt at cloning the Linn LP12(personally, not a table
I'd want to clone, or own). The table you describe is worth $250-350 on the market, although I
would say worth much less in actual value vs performance. With a competitive arm & cartridge,
your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest mistake they made was
to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor. Constant source of
failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor to use for a
supposedly "high end" table.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Cosworth" > wrote in message
...
> I have the opportunity to pick up this turntable for a song, but know little
> about it. I looked it over and it seemed in decent shape. I had to
> re-route the belt (it had gotten all tangled in the undercarriage), and it
> needs a new cartridge, but other than that it's picture perfect. It has an
> original tonearm, also Systemdek.
>
> I already have a Thorens TD124 and a B&O table (standard tonearm, not linear
> tracking), and I'm sure I'll grab this Systemdek up and listen for myself,
> but I'm curious what kind of reputation it has and how I should expect it to
> compare with my Thorens.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Balmer
>
>

[Stephen Sank]

The Systemdek was basically a cheap attempt at cloning the Linn LP12(personally, not a table
I'd want to clone, or own). The table you describe is worth $250-350 on the market, although I
would say worth much less in actual value vs performance. With a competitive arm & cartridge,
your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest mistake they made was
to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor. Constant source of
failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor to use for a
supposedly "high end" table.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Cosworth" > wrote in message
...
> I have the opportunity to pick up this turntable for a song, but know little
> about it. I looked it over and it seemed in decent shape. I had to
> re-route the belt (it had gotten all tangled in the undercarriage), and it
> needs a new cartridge, but other than that it's picture perfect. It has an
> original tonearm, also Systemdek.
>
> I already have a Thorens TD124 and a B&O table (standard tonearm, not linear
> tracking), and I'm sure I'll grab this Systemdek up and listen for myself,
> but I'm curious what kind of reputation it has and how I should expect it to
> compare with my Thorens.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Balmer
>
>

[Steven Sullivan]

Stephen Sank > wrote:
> The Systemdek was basically a cheap attempt at cloning the Linn LP12(personally, not a table
> I'd want to clone, or own). The table you describe is worth $250-350 on the market, although I
> would say worth much less in actual value vs performance. With a competitive arm & cartridge,
> your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest mistake they made was
> to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor. Constant source of
> failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor to use for a
> supposedly "high end" table.

The IIX was always marketed as a 'budget' alternative to high end TTs.

Mine (of the original IIX series, mfrd in Scotland, I think, purchased circa 1984 for around $500,
with the S-shaped Profile II arm) years later developed a low-level hum that only manifests when the
stylus is in contact with the LP...which I hypothesize to mean, some sort of propagation of a motor
vibration. Disappears when the cart (a Shure V15-IVMR) is lifted from the LP, so I don't see how it
could be grounding problem. The one 'high end' repair joint I took it to couldn't fix it (or even
diagnose it..they said it was a cartridge setup/alignment problem, did a setup/alignment..and gave
it back to me with the same problem). Suggestions/new diagnoses/repair ideas welcome.



--

-S.
"We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's.
Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." --
David Lee Roth

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I have the opportunity to pick up this turntable for a song, but know little
> about it.

So do it, and learn about it after you have it. What's the big deal?

Unless you really don't need it. Or is that what you're trying to get
us to tell you.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

Steven Sullivan > wrote:
>
>Mine (of the original IIX series, mfrd in Scotland, I think, purchased circa 1984 for around $500,
>with the S-shaped Profile II arm) years later developed a low-level hum that only manifests when the
>stylus is in contact with the LP...which I hypothesize to mean, some sort of propagation of a motor
>vibration. Disappears when the cart (a Shure V15-IVMR) is lifted from the LP, so I don't see how it
>could be grounding problem. The one 'high end' repair joint I took it to couldn't fix it (or even
>diagnose it..they said it was a cartridge setup/alignment problem, did a setup/alignment..and gave
>it back to me with the same problem). Suggestions/new diagnoses/repair ideas welcome.

Could be magnetic leakage from a cheap motor. The original AR had a similar
problem, and the solution was to use a cartridge with lower magnetic field
pickup. The Grados were utter nightmares on the AR.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Stephen Sank]

It's most likely a problem of magnetic induction from the motor to the platter. The Shure
cart's have always been pretty free from sensitivity to this sort of problem, in my experience,
so it must be rather severe. The best solution, and wisest for performance improvement & long
term stability, is to lose the crappy synchronous motor & find a suitable DC motor replacement
system. I am fairly sure there are a number of such systems available for the Linn, which
should cross right over to your Systemdek. Best if you can find one that uses a brushless hall
motor, such as those used by Oracle.
The only other approach would be to isolate the disc from the platter as best as you can,
starting with trying a sorbothan platter mat, such as the Audioquest or the original(and
better) "Platter Matter". This is a "trial and error" approach, though, so be ready to try a
bunch of different mat types.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message ...
> Stephen Sank > wrote:
> > The Systemdek was basically a cheap attempt at cloning the Linn LP12(personally, not a
table
> > I'd want to clone, or own). The table you describe is worth $250-350 on the market,
although I
> > would say worth much less in actual value vs performance. With a competitive arm &
cartridge,
> > your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest mistake they made
was
> > to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor. Constant source of
> > failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor to use for a
> > supposedly "high end" table.
>
> The IIX was always marketed as a 'budget' alternative to high end TTs.
>
> Mine (of the original IIX series, mfrd in Scotland, I think, purchased circa 1984 for around
$500,
> with the S-shaped Profile II arm) years later developed a low-level hum that only manifests
when the
> stylus is in contact with the LP...which I hypothesize to mean, some sort of propagation of a
motor
> vibration. Disappears when the cart (a Shure V15-IVMR) is lifted from the LP, so I don't see
how it
> could be grounding problem. The one 'high end' repair joint I took it to couldn't fix it (or
even
> diagnose it..they said it was a cartridge setup/alignment problem, did a setup/alignment..and
gave
> it back to me with the same problem). Suggestions/new diagnoses/repair ideas welcome.
>
>
>
> --
>
> -S.
> "We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's.
> Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." --
> David Lee Roth
>
>

[Bob Olhsson]

"Stephen Sank" > wrote in message
...
>...With a competitive arm & cartridge,
> your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest
mistake they made was
> to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor.
Constant source of
> failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor
to use for a
> supposedly "high end" table.

My TD124 stomps all over almost everything that ever came later!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Bob Olhsson > wrote:
>"Stephen Sank" > wrote in message
...
>>...With a competitive arm & cartridge,
>> your old TD124 will thoroughly stomp all over the Systemdek. The biggest
>mistake they made was
>> to use the same motor as Linn, which is a $5 Philips sychronous motor.
>Constant source of
>> failures & general aggravation, not to mention a horribly primitive motor
>to use for a
>> supposedly "high end" table.
>
>My TD124 stomps all over almost everything that ever came later!

Yes, but even the cheapo TD126 will stop over the Systemdek. They really
were disappointing, and the Thorens turntables really are pretty impressive
and don't get the credit they deserve.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Cosworth]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Olhsson > wrote:
..
> >
> >My TD124 stomps all over almost everything that ever came later!

Agreed!
>
> Yes, but even the cheapo TD126 will stop over the Systemdek. They really
> were disappointing, and the Thorens turntables really are pretty
impressive
> and don't get the credit they deserve.
> --scott

Okay, thanks for the input guys. I'll still be picking up the Systemdek and
I'll give it a listen. But as I expected, the Thorens probably won't be
going anywhere.

So, assuming (as I do) that your predictions will match my reality, the next
question is.... anybody want to buy a REALLY NICE SYSTEMDEK? :-)

Bill Balmer

[Cosworth]

Well, I got the Systemdek hooked up today, and I have to say it sounds
pretty damn good. Even with the old Shure M7-N21D cartridge I had lying
around as a spare. It came with an original Blue Point cart, but the stylus
was broken (are they replaceable?).

Honestly, the Systemdek comes pretty close to the Thorens, but that's
undoubtedly a reflection of the old arm on the Thorens - a Shure M232. The
arm on the Systemdek appears to be its best feature and is clearly a step up
from the old Shure.

Now I'm faced with yet another dilemma. Clearly the Thorens is a higher
quality machine that is a match for the Systemdek sonically, and would be
far superior if properly equipped. But I really don't have the cabbage to
buy a nice arm for the Thorens, so it remains as is. The Systemdek sounds
good now, and if I swapped in my good cart (an AT440ML-OCC), it would surely
improve it considerably.

I could possibly pull the tonearm off of the Systemdek and put it on the
Thorens, but somehow that seems like a really odd combination to me, and it
would render the Systemdek virtually un-sellable.

I could keep the Thorens as is and sell the Systemdek for $200-$300.

Or I could put the good cart on the Systemdek and sell the Thorens for
substantially more than that (new carpeting in the family room would be
nice).

The Thorens is built like a tank and should last longer, but on the other
hand it's probably 25 years older already. Despite its age, it seems like
parts for the Thorens are easier to come by.

Maybe I'll sell the Systemdek and use the money to buy an arm for the
Thorens?

Decisions, decisions.....

[Stephen Sank]

With the money you'd get selling the Systemdek, you could buy an arm like the SME III, or
perhaps a Rega RB300(I'd go with the SME III) for the Thorens. The TD124 has become so popular
lately that there are a number of people making replacement arm mounting boards for them, that
are usually better than the originals. You might even be able to sell the horrible Shure M232
arm for $50-75 on ebay.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Cosworth" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I got the Systemdek hooked up today, and I have to say it sounds
> pretty damn good. Even with the old Shure M7-N21D cartridge I had lying
> around as a spare. It came with an original Blue Point cart, but the stylus
> was broken (are they replaceable?).
>
> Honestly, the Systemdek comes pretty close to the Thorens, but that's
> undoubtedly a reflection of the old arm on the Thorens - a Shure M232. The
> arm on the Systemdek appears to be its best feature and is clearly a step up
> from the old Shure.
>
> Now I'm faced with yet another dilemma. Clearly the Thorens is a higher
> quality machine that is a match for the Systemdek sonically, and would be
> far superior if properly equipped. But I really don't have the cabbage to
> buy a nice arm for the Thorens, so it remains as is. The Systemdek sounds
> good now, and if I swapped in my good cart (an AT440ML-OCC), it would surely
> improve it considerably.
>
> I could possibly pull the tonearm off of the Systemdek and put it on the
> Thorens, but somehow that seems like a really odd combination to me, and it
> would render the Systemdek virtually un-sellable.
>
> I could keep the Thorens as is and sell the Systemdek for $200-$300.
>
> Or I could put the good cart on the Systemdek and sell the Thorens for
> substantially more than that (new carpeting in the family room would be
> nice).
>
> The Thorens is built like a tank and should last longer, but on the other
> hand it's probably 25 years older already. Despite its age, it seems like
> parts for the Thorens are easier to come by.
>
> Maybe I'll sell the Systemdek and use the money to buy an arm for the
> Thorens?
>
> Decisions, decisions.....
>
>

[Steven Sullivan]

Stephen Sank > wrote:
> It's most likely a problem of magnetic induction from the motor to the platter.

Would that be expected to produce a low, constant-Hz hum , only when the stylus is on
contact with the LP? That's what I have. It's actually quite subtle, hardly
noticable unless you know what to listen for -- I can hear it
best when the stylus is in the run-out band at the end of a side of LPs,
using headphones. It's just as clear that lifting the stylus eliminates it.


> The Shure
> cart's have always been pretty free from sensitivity to this sort of problem, in my experience,
> so it must be rather severe. The best solution, and wisest for performance improvement & long
> term stability, is to lose the crappy synchronous motor & find a suitable DC motor replacement
> system. I am fairly sure there are a number of such systems available for the Linn, which
> should cross right over to your Systemdek. Best if you can find one that uses a brushless hall
> motor, such as those used by Oracle.


I'm not having much luck locating such replacement -- any links you or anyone could provide
to particular sites/mfrs/dealers who stock motor upgrades (preferably not ridiculous
ones that cost more than the TT did originally) for a vintage Systemdek IIX would be
appreciated..

I looked cursorily on some Linn LP12-devoted sites and found outboard power supplies but no
motors.


> The only other approach would be to isolate the disc from the platter as best as you can,
> starting with trying a sorbothan platter mat, such as the Audioquest or the original(and
> better) "Platter Matter". This is a "trial and error" approach, though, so be ready to try a
> bunch of different mat types.

I'll give it a shot.

Any chance it could be related to the adjustment of the motor mounts/suspension? This TT
underwent considerable travel-shock over the years, I'm sad to report. I'm sure it
was not always properly battened down during transport, though it was never
dropped or thrown or otherwise horribly abused AFAIR.



--

-S.
"We started to see evidence of the professional groupie in the early 80's.
Alarmingly, these girls bore a striking resemblance to Motley Crue." --
David Lee Roth