Scott Dorsey
August 13th 04, 03:22 AM
Particle Salad > wrote:
>OK, I saw a band a couple of weeks ago with those new Bose PA stick
>thingies. Don't hate me... but I was surprised... they sounded way better
>than I thought they would. Not muddy... a bit bright, but not too much so.
>It DID sound... well... more hi fi then most bands I've seen at the same
>location (an outdoor Friday night concert series). Less muddy. The sweet
>spot was much wider than I've heard at that location too, which surprised
>me. They didn't use monitors. The vocalist appeared to hear herself well,
>had no pitch problems. The drummer was live and I think NOT miced. It's
>possible the kick was miced, I didn't look. It seemed everyone could
>control their own individual volume very well and mix together.
Basically, this is the result of having very wide horizontal dispersion. Wide
dispersion means lots of leakage on stage and therefore no need for monitors
with small acoustic acts. The fact that it doesn't sound like it's coming
through a telephone is the side effect of eliminating the horn since you
no longer are trying to control high end dispersion.
I think the whole line array thing here is mostly a gimmick; I don't think
the vertical directivity control resulting from the line array is really
all that great. What is great is the fact that it has extensive active
notch filtering systems to compensate for the feedback problems that result
from the high leakage.
The microphone modelling stuff in there is also mostly a useless gimmick
that does more harm than good.
But the overall concept of using wide dispersion speakers without horns
and DSP feedback reduction is not a bad one for small groups where high
levels aren't really needed. The idea falls apart completely once you
are in a very live club with high audience noise levels because you really
don't have great gain before feedback, but when it can work, it can work
well.
>Anyway, the question.... it seems like it wouldn't be difficult at all to
>roll your own similar system. It seems to me there are a few of things
>going on here that make the system work:
>
>- smaller diameter drivers in the mains so no low mid muddiness buildup (the
>usual bose lack of lower mids)
>- wide dispersion of audio from drivers to make monitors unnecessary
These are easy. And you'll note that there is no horn on the top end,
so the top end rolls off very smoothly with no narrow peaks. That actually
is a help both for natural sound and reduced feedback.
The line array thing does increase vertical dispersion a little bit. I
don't have a good line on how much that really improves gain before
feedback but I bet it's pretty minimal.
>- some sort of feedback reduction in each unit
>- omnidirectional nature of bass frequencies
>
>Thoughts? Has anyone thought of doing their own similar system, using some
>aspects of the Bose system and improving on them? Is there more voodoo
>going on then I'm aware of?
Sure. I used to do a small dance band with a pair of AR-3Xes. Plenty of
spill-over so everyone could hear the singer. Worked just fine because
it wasn't very loud and it didn't have to be.
>Info is appreciated... thanks!
I think Bose has just realized that there is a small niche market of
acoustic performers who aren't really served by the typical PA gear they
find in their local MI store. I don't think they have anything too
innovative going on here, and I think a pair of AR-3Xes, a powered mixer
and a notch filter might do the same thing. But they have it all in one
package.
If you compare the Bose system with a good pair of non-horn-loaded box
speakers, you'll find they sound very distant in comparison, with a very
recessed upper midrange. I think that's a disadvantage in the application
too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>OK, I saw a band a couple of weeks ago with those new Bose PA stick
>thingies. Don't hate me... but I was surprised... they sounded way better
>than I thought they would. Not muddy... a bit bright, but not too much so.
>It DID sound... well... more hi fi then most bands I've seen at the same
>location (an outdoor Friday night concert series). Less muddy. The sweet
>spot was much wider than I've heard at that location too, which surprised
>me. They didn't use monitors. The vocalist appeared to hear herself well,
>had no pitch problems. The drummer was live and I think NOT miced. It's
>possible the kick was miced, I didn't look. It seemed everyone could
>control their own individual volume very well and mix together.
Basically, this is the result of having very wide horizontal dispersion. Wide
dispersion means lots of leakage on stage and therefore no need for monitors
with small acoustic acts. The fact that it doesn't sound like it's coming
through a telephone is the side effect of eliminating the horn since you
no longer are trying to control high end dispersion.
I think the whole line array thing here is mostly a gimmick; I don't think
the vertical directivity control resulting from the line array is really
all that great. What is great is the fact that it has extensive active
notch filtering systems to compensate for the feedback problems that result
from the high leakage.
The microphone modelling stuff in there is also mostly a useless gimmick
that does more harm than good.
But the overall concept of using wide dispersion speakers without horns
and DSP feedback reduction is not a bad one for small groups where high
levels aren't really needed. The idea falls apart completely once you
are in a very live club with high audience noise levels because you really
don't have great gain before feedback, but when it can work, it can work
well.
>Anyway, the question.... it seems like it wouldn't be difficult at all to
>roll your own similar system. It seems to me there are a few of things
>going on here that make the system work:
>
>- smaller diameter drivers in the mains so no low mid muddiness buildup (the
>usual bose lack of lower mids)
>- wide dispersion of audio from drivers to make monitors unnecessary
These are easy. And you'll note that there is no horn on the top end,
so the top end rolls off very smoothly with no narrow peaks. That actually
is a help both for natural sound and reduced feedback.
The line array thing does increase vertical dispersion a little bit. I
don't have a good line on how much that really improves gain before
feedback but I bet it's pretty minimal.
>- some sort of feedback reduction in each unit
>- omnidirectional nature of bass frequencies
>
>Thoughts? Has anyone thought of doing their own similar system, using some
>aspects of the Bose system and improving on them? Is there more voodoo
>going on then I'm aware of?
Sure. I used to do a small dance band with a pair of AR-3Xes. Plenty of
spill-over so everyone could hear the singer. Worked just fine because
it wasn't very loud and it didn't have to be.
>Info is appreciated... thanks!
I think Bose has just realized that there is a small niche market of
acoustic performers who aren't really served by the typical PA gear they
find in their local MI store. I don't think they have anything too
innovative going on here, and I think a pair of AR-3Xes, a powered mixer
and a notch filter might do the same thing. But they have it all in one
package.
If you compare the Bose system with a good pair of non-horn-loaded box
speakers, you'll find they sound very distant in comparison, with a very
recessed upper midrange. I think that's a disadvantage in the application
too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."