need advice on speakers to use for sound/art installtion in museum

[livb]

Hello
I will be preparing a sound/speaker installation for a
hallway/stairwell of a large contemporary art museum. I will need to
put several speakers mounted on (in) the walls on either side along
the hallway, which will be around 2 to 3 feet from the people walking
by. The sounds coming through the speakers will not be very loud, and
they will be sort of abstract/electronic, but I want a nice clear
sound from the speakers.
I would like to know if anyone has suggestions as to what type of
speaker would be relatively inexpensive, the proper size, and right
sound quality for this type of event.
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Thanks so much

[Scott Dorsey]

livb > wrote:
> I will be preparing a sound/speaker installation for a
>hallway/stairwell of a large contemporary art museum. I will need to
>put several speakers mounted on (in) the walls on either side along
>the hallway, which will be around 2 to 3 feet from the people walking
>by. The sounds coming through the speakers will not be very loud, and
>they will be sort of abstract/electronic, but I want a nice clear
>sound from the speakers.
>I would like to know if anyone has suggestions as to what type of
>speaker would be relatively inexpensive, the proper size, and right
>sound quality for this type of event.

How wideband is this stuff? Is it going to have a lot of low end and
a lot of top end? Do you care about midrange accuracy?

How concealed do you want the speakers to be?

What is the wall construction? Are these deep walls, or are they narrow
with metal studs? Or is this a load-bearing cinderblock wall where you can
knock a hole in a block here and there.

Does the sound have to be very even in level and effect as you walk down
the hall? Or can it vary?

Are all of these speakers going to be producing the same sound (so that you
will have to worry about phase cancellation between adjacent speakers) or
not?

Have you considered ceiling speakers instead? If so, what is the ceiling
construction like?

Are you going to be trying for any actual stereo effects?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Greg Bianchini]

(livb) wrote in message

> I would like to know if anyone has suggestions as to what type of
> speaker would be relatively inexpensive, the proper size, and right
> sound quality for this type of event.

You'll probably want to use 8" ceiling speakers, depending on the
bandwidth you need. These can range in price from $10 to several
hundred each, depending on the quality. Something like the $20 pioneer
full ranges (dual cone) would probably be adequate, and would allow
you to do a series parallel hook up to a normal amplifier. Otherwise,
you'll need to do a 70v distributed system.

If you need extended deep bass, it will take a couple subwoofers.

What city is this in?

Greg B

[Raymond]

(livb) wrote in message
>
>> I would like to know if anyone has suggestions as to what type of
>> speaker would be relatively inexpensive, the proper size, and right
>> sound quality for this type of event.
>
>You'll probably want to use 8" ceiling speakers, depending on the
>bandwidth you need. These can range in price from $10 to several
>hundred each, depending on the quality. Something like the $20 pioneer
>full ranges (dual cone) would probably be adequate, and would allow
>you to do a series parallel hook up to a normal amplifier. Otherwise,
>you'll need to do a 70v distributed system.
>
>If you need extended deep bass, it will take a couple subwoofers.
>
>What city is this in?

Tannoy is one of the kings of flush mount speakers. Try here.
http://www.tannoyna.com/commercial/index.html

[livb]

Hi

> How wideband is this stuff? Is it going to have a lot of low end and
> a lot of top end? Do you care about midrange accuracy?>>

Im not sure yet how wide it will be, but htere will definitely be
midrange, and some lows and highs, although most likely not extreme in
either range. I do want midrange accuracy, definitely.

<<
> How concealed do you want the speakers to be? >>

As much as possible, probably just cones will be visible in the walls?
>
> What is the wall construction? Are these deep walls, or are they narrow
> with metal studs? Or is this a load-bearing cinderblock wall where you can
> knock a hole in a block here and there.>>

This is a good question-I have to find this out, but my guess is that
it is just the regular drywall?

<<
> Does the sound have to be very even in level and effect as you walk down
> the hall? Or can it vary?>>

By nature of the sounds themselves it will vary, as the sounds will
sort of float in and out volume-wise, but it would be better if all
the speakers had the same effects for consistency.

>
> Are all of these speakers going to be producing the same sound (so that you
> will have to worry about phase cancellation between adjacent speakers) or
> not?>>

Most of them will be producing the same types of sounds with little
variations, although I wont really have to worry about phase
cancellations because the sounds themselves are sparse and have a lot
of space in them, and as I said they will drift in and out. Each
speker will have its own CD source,so all of the sounds miight be the
same, but playing at different times so they will overlap, space will
be between them, etc

>
> Have you considered ceiling speakers instead? If so, what is the ceiling
> construction like?>

There will be a different type of speaker hanging from the ceiling. I
dont think speakers would have to be mounted in the ceiling, its high
enough where they could be suspended. I had an idea to put some in the
walls and some from the ceiling.

<<>
> Are you going to be trying for any actual stereo effects?
> --scott

No, not really, if I understand your question. I think each L and R
will be a different speaker with a seperate sound assigned to it,
although there may be a panning effect where the sound might drift
from one speaker to another, but not in a stereo spacial set-up, maybe
far from each other. These are good questions, as I am just in the
beginning stages and have just started thinking about the details.

[livb]

Hi
>
> You'll probably want to use 8" ceiling speakers, depending on the
> bandwidth you need. These can range in price from $10 to several
> hundred each, depending on the quality. Something like the $20 pioneer
> full ranges (dual cone) would probably be adequate, and would allow
> you to do a series parallel hook up to a normal amplifier. >>

When you say parallel hookup do you mean they could all be connected
to one sound source, like one CD player? Sorry if this question is
dumb!
When you say ceiling speakers, do you mean I shouldnt mount them in
the walls at all? Would you recommend the same size for the walls?
What brand is a little better than average but not terribly expensive
and where would I purchase a cone without the casing? Again, probably
stupid questions...Thanks!

Otherwise,
> you'll need to do a 70v distributed system.>>

Can you explain further?

<<
> If you need extended deep bass, it will take a couple subwoofers.
> >>

I dont think the bass will be too extensive, although there will be
some, so maybe I dont need the woofers

<<> What city is this in?

Chicago

Thanks!
>
> Greg B

[livb]

>
> Tannoy is one of the kings of flush mount speakers. Try here.
> http://www.tannoyna.com/commercial/index.html

This looks promising. Thanks . I am worried about the costs, though. I
couldnt find a price list. Are they expensive? Thanks so much!

[Scott Dorsey]

livb > wrote:
>
>> How wideband is this stuff? Is it going to have a lot of low end and
>> a lot of top end? Do you care about midrange accuracy?>>
>
>Im not sure yet how wide it will be, but htere will definitely be
>midrange, and some lows and highs, although most likely not extreme in
>either range. I do want midrange accuracy, definitely.

Okay. Midrange accuracy costs money. Extension costs money, but putting
them together costs more than just one.

The Tannoy ICT systems, for instance, have very clean midrange, but not much
top or bottom. The Speco in-wall stuff has a lot more top end bottom but not
very accurate midrange.

For most electronic stuff, midrange accuracy isn't really an issue at all,
at least not like the way it is for vocal stuff. But it's your call.

><<
>> How concealed do you want the speakers to be? >>
>
>As much as possible, probably just cones will be visible in the walls?
>>
>> What is the wall construction? Are these deep walls, or are they narrow
>> with metal studs? Or is this a load-bearing cinderblock wall where you can
>> knock a hole in a block here and there.>>
>
>This is a good question-I have to find this out, but my guess is that
>it is just the regular drywall?

This affects how deep you can mount the cabinets. You need to find this
out before anything else.

><<
>> Does the sound have to be very even in level and effect as you walk down
>> the hall? Or can it vary?>>
>
>By nature of the sounds themselves it will vary, as the sounds will
>sort of float in and out volume-wise, but it would be better if all
>the speakers had the same effects for consistency.

If it's floating in and out then you don't need to worry so much about
pattern control at all and you can live with wider and more sloppy patterns.
It also means you can get away with more distant placement.

>> Are all of these speakers going to be producing the same sound (so that you
>> will have to worry about phase cancellation between adjacent speakers) or
>> not?>>
>
>Most of them will be producing the same types of sounds with little
>variations, although I wont really have to worry about phase
>cancellations because the sounds themselves are sparse and have a lot
>of space in them, and as I said they will drift in and out. Each
>speker will have its own CD source,so all of the sounds miight be the
>same, but playing at different times so they will overlap, space will
>be between them, etc

Okay, so they aren't synchronized or coupled. This means there is no issue
at all with phase cancellation and you don't have any issues at all with
speaker pattern whatsoever.

>> Have you considered ceiling speakers instead? If so, what is the ceiling
>> construction like?>
>
>There will be a different type of speaker hanging from the ceiling. I
>dont think speakers would have to be mounted in the ceiling, its high
>enough where they could be suspended. I had an idea to put some in the
>walls and some from the ceiling.

Mounting them in the ceiling will allow you to cover broader areas than
suspending them. This may or may not be a good thing for you.

>> Are you going to be trying for any actual stereo effects?
>
>No, not really, if I understand your question. I think each L and R
>will be a different speaker with a seperate sound assigned to it,
>although there may be a panning effect where the sound might drift
>from one speaker to another, but not in a stereo spacial set-up, maybe
>far from each other. These are good questions, as I am just in the
>beginning stages and have just started thinking about the details.

I suggest that before doing anything else you go out and get one of the
cheap 8" installed-sound speakers like are used for paging in your local
supermarket. You can call Cain Electronics in Norfolk, VA and order an
8" driver in a cheap woodgrain cabinet for something like $20. Give
that a listen and take that as your baseline. What do you want that you
can't get out of that?

The high end response on these will drop off very dramatically as you
walk past them, because the drivers are very beamy. They don't have much
top end or much bottom end and they have a couple weird midrange resonances.
Of these problems you need to find out which ones bother you and which ones
you can live with so that you know what direction to start looking in.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."