Mackie Big Knob?

[EricK]

Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"? I am wondering
about the talkback functions. A person that I don't trust too much said
something to the effect that when you press the talkback button, the
control room monitors DON'T DIM. I'm looking to know whether or not the
talkback dims the control room. In my mind, the product would be useless
if they didn't implement the talkback function properly.

Thanks!

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

[hank alrich]

EricK wrote:

> Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"?

http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

--
ha

[Frank Vuotto]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:22:45 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

>http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
is beyond me.

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[EggHd]

<< Why mixer designers feel it's
necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
is beyond me. >>

In my experience the studio monitor and the control room monitor is different.
As people in the studio may not always have their headphones on having the
option to have talk back in the room is a good thing.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Frank Vuotto]

On 20 Jul 2004 16:32:34 GMT, (EggHd) wrote:

><< Why mixer designers feel it's
>necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
>is beyond me. >>
>
>In my experience the studio monitor and the control room monitor is different.
>As people in the studio may not always have their headphones on having the
>option to have talk back in the room is a good thing.
>

Yes, you're correct of course. I was thrown off because the Mackie
Operational Guide uses the term 'studio monitors' for both the control
room monitors and the recording room monitors.

A closer look at the block diagram shows that the talkback does not go
to the Monitor A/B outputs so it's not critical that the control room
monitors 'dim'. There is a mute switch but it's not activated by the
TB.

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
Very clever observation.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Jan Holm]

Frank Vuotto wrote:
> A closer look at the block diagram shows that the talkback does not go
> to the Monitor A/B outputs so it's not critical that the control room
> monitors 'dim'. There is a mute switch but it's not activated by the
> TB.

Also a "dim" switch, but still not activated by the TB. Still I'm
going to test this knob thing out first hand when my dealer get
it home (a week or 2)

Regards
Jan Holm

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
> necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
> is beyond me.

Do you mean that, or do you mean the control room monitor bus?

You sent talkback to the studio bacause that's where the musicians
you're talking to are. Real studios have speakers in the studio so the
musicians can hear playback (and talkback) without coming into the
control room. You send talkback to the "aux" buses (headphone outputs
in this case) because some of the musicians wear headphones. You send
it to the main outputs because you can use it to slate a take.

You don't send talkback to the control room monitors because it will
feed back. But you DO dim the control room monitors since the studio
mics are often up, and if the talkback mic picks them up and sends
them back to the studio monitor speakers (or sometimes even headphones
if there's enough gain) you'll get feedback through that path.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[EricK]

hank alrich wrote:

> EricK wrote:
>
>
>>Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"?
>
>
> http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf
>
> --
> ha

Thank you for the link, Hank. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Oh,
wait, I did, a week ago. Couldn't find a definitive answer. Yes, maybe
the answer is buried in the schematic. I must admit, my skills at
reading schematics are rudimentary at best. That should not be reason to
fault me for posting the question to the group.

My thinking was that just because the manual doesn't specifically
mention that the control room will dim when the T/B is utilized, does
not mean that it doesn't dim. I take it for granted that when I press
T/B, the control monitors will dim. I thought Mackie was taking that for
granted as well when they wrote the manual.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

[Don Cooper]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> > http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf
>
> So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
> Very clever observation.


But it's alleged that they tried to cover it up.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> walkinay writes:

> > http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

> So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?

Just a so-called thought.

> Very clever observation.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.

--
ha

[hank alrich]

EricK wrote:

> Thank you for the link, Hank. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Oh,
> wait, I did, a week ago. Couldn't find a definitive answer. Yes, maybe
> the answer is buried in the schematic. I must admit, my skills at
> reading schematics are rudimentary at best. That should not be reason to
> fault me for posting the question to the group.

I didn't intend to fault you in any way; I didn't have time to download
the manual and read it to see if I could find an answer. I saw no
mention that you'd found the manual, so I offered a pointer.

(Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)

--
ha

[ScotFraser]

<< Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"? >>

Yes, I just bought one for a project that involves setting up a DAW in the
artists' rehearsal space.

<<I am wondering
about the talkback functions. A person that I don't trust too much said
something to the effect that when you press the talkback button, the
control room monitors DON'T DIM. I'm looking to know whether or not the
talkback dims the control room. >>

The talkback does not dim the control monitors.

<<In my mind, the product would be useless
if they didn't implement the talkback function properly.>>

I personally am extremely pleased that talkback does not dim the monitors
because it is now possible to carry on a 2 way conversation with the talent
while the producer is mindlessly holding the talkback down.
Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
is beyond me. >>

Well, it's very hard for musicians who aren't using headphones (as in at least
50% of the acoustic sessions I do) to hear you when talkback DOESN'T go to the
studio monitors.

Scott Fraser

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)

I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[George Perfect]

In this place, Mike Rivers was recorded saying ...
>
> > (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.

Mike - surely you know that WD40 will leave a sticky residue behind.

You should only use Kailube on an instrument as delicate as a banjo.

<VBG>

--

George
Newcastle, England

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back [Piet Hein]

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <znr1090408089k@trad>, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>In article > writes:
>
>> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
>I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
>keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.

If you already tried candle wax and soap, how about putting a wrap of
teflon pipe tape on?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roger W. Norman]

Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper talkback. And
still I walk out of the control room and talk to the musicians because they
can't see me since I don't have a control room window. They like it and I
like it.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1090354812k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
> > necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
> > is beyond me.
>
> Do you mean that, or do you mean the control room monitor bus?
>
> You sent talkback to the studio bacause that's where the musicians
> you're talking to are. Real studios have speakers in the studio so the
> musicians can hear playback (and talkback) without coming into the
> control room. You send talkback to the "aux" buses (headphone outputs
> in this case) because some of the musicians wear headphones. You send
> it to the main outputs because you can use it to slate a take.
>
> You don't send talkback to the control room monitors because it will
> feed back. But you DO dim the control room monitors since the studio
> mics are often up, and if the talkback mic picks them up and sends
> them back to the studio monitor speakers (or sometimes even headphones
> if there's enough gain) you'll get feedback through that path.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Frank Vuotto]

On 21 Jul 2004 07:52:35 GMT, (ScotFraser) wrote:

><< Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
>necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
>is beyond me. >>
>

I did mean the control room monitors (but called studio monitors in
the Mackie guide).

I swear.....


Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[Roger W. Norman]

Or Truffles! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> > walkinay writes:
>
> > > http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf
>
> > So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
>
> Just a so-called thought.
>
> > Very clever observation.
>
> Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.
>
> --
> ha

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 21 Jul 2004 08:35:34 -0400, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
>keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.

"Huh. This thing was in tune when I bought it" -Garrison Keillor

Chris Hornbeck

[ScotFraser]

<< << Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
>necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
>is beyond me. >>
>

I did mean the control room monitors (but called studio monitors in
the Mackie guide).
I swear..... >>

OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie. In fact,
the talkback does not go to the control room speakers on this product, in any
of its several monitoring modes, nor have I seen any implementation of talkback
in any mixing desk that does.


Scott Fraser

[Kurt Albershardt]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
>
>> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
>
> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.


I used to have a stick of some blackish-brown compound for my violin pegs that worked fairly well.

[Frank Vuotto]

I thought I posted a follow up but maybe it didn't make it to Usenet,
it said this:

>Yes, you're correct of course. I was thrown off because the Mackie Operational Guide
>uses the term 'studio monitors' for both the control room monitors
>and the recording room monitors.

>A closer look at the block diagram shows that the talkback does not go to
>the Monitor A/B outputs so it's not critical that the control room monitors 'dim'.
>There is a mute switch but it's not activated by the TB.


On 21 Jul 2004 17:16:59 GMT, (ScotFraser) wrote:
>
>OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie. In fact,
>the talkback does not go to the control room speakers on this product, in any
>of its several monitoring modes, nor have I seen any implementation of talkback
>in any mixing desk that does.
>
>Scott Fraser

I've used a 24 ch Tascam (and I believe an older Mackie) that sent the
built in talkback mic only to the stereo output (?) and the front
panel headphone jack(?). There was no way to route it to an aux bus.

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[Geoff Wood]

George Perfect wrote:
> In this place, Mike Rivers was recorded saying ...
>>
>>> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>>
>> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs.
>> They keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.
>
> Mike - surely you know that WD40 will leave a sticky residue behind.

It's all that silicone .....

;-)

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

Roger W. Norman wrote:
> Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper
> talkback. And still I walk out of the control room and talk to the
> musicians because they can't see me since I don't have a control room
> window. They like it and I like it.

What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you unless
you take the trouble to walk out ...

;-)

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

>
>> I did mean the control room monitors (but called studio monitors in
>> the Mackie guide).
>> I swear..... >>
>
> OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie.

Things just haven't been the same around there since I left. At least
I got them to label the button "Polarity" instead of "Phase" on d8b
Version 3 software.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I used to have a stick of some blackish-brown compound for my violin pegs that
> worked fairly well.

I've seen violin players use rosin. But that's to make them stick. I
need to make them unstick so I can turn them.

Tapping them on the small end of the taper usually frees them up, but
that gets the whole banjo out of tune. But then, who cares?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[George Perfect]

In this place, Mike Rivers was recorded saying ...
>
> Tapping them on the small end of the taper usually frees them up, but
> that gets the whole banjo out of tune. But then, who cares?

What's more, who'd notice? ;^)

--

George
Newcastle, England

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back [Piet Hein]

[Roger W. Norman]

Who wants to look at me? Besides, I'm sitting in here shaking my head when
I hear mistakes, so I don't want them stopping because of me.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Geoff Wood" -nospam> wrote in message
...
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper
> > talkback. And still I walk out of the control room and talk to the
> > musicians because they can't see me since I don't have a control room
> > window. They like it and I like it.
>
> What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you unless
> you take the trouble to walk out ...
>
> ;-)
>
> geoff
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

And it was great for smoking! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
> > In article >
writes:
> >
> >
> >> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
> >
> >
> > I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> > keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.
>
>
> I used to have a stick of some blackish-brown compound for my violin pegs
that worked fairly well.
>
>
>
>
>

[agent86]

Mike Rivers wrote:

>
> In article >
> writes:
>
>> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


Banjo?... In tune?...

Now THAT's funny!

I once read an interview with Jimmie Vaughn in which he said about the
Fabulous Thunderbirds, "We have two Fenders & a harmonica, so it's rare
that we ever get really in tune."

[ScotFraser]

<< What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you unless
you take the trouble to walk out ... >>

I find some singers prefer being in a part of the tracking room where they
can't be seen from the control room. Gives them a private space to perform in,
I believe.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< I've used a 24 ch Tascam (and I believe an older Mackie) that sent the
built in talkback mic only to the stereo output (?) and the front
panel headphone jack(?). There was no way to route it to an aux bus. >>

Did they have a separate control room feed? Sounds more like a PA desk, & a not
very versatile one at that.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< At least
I got them to label the button "Polarity" instead of "Phase" on d8b
Version 3 software. >>

Thank you. And now we know that this Rivers idiot IS for real.
<g>


Scott Fraser

[EricK]

ScotFraser wrote:
> I personally am extremely pleased that talkback does not dim the monitors
> because it is now possible to carry on a 2 way conversation with the talent
> while the producer is mindlessly holding the talkback down.
> Scott Fraser

Can you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I follow. How do you keep the
control room monitors from feeding back while the producer mindlessly
holds down the talkback?

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

[transducr]

(hank alrich) wrote in message >...
>
> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)

wait...you mean A440, right?

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On 21 Jul 2004 18:11:43 -0400, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> In article > writes:
>
>> I used to have a stick of some blackish-brown compound for my violin pegs that
>> worked fairly well.
>
> I've seen violin players use rosin. But that's to make them stick. I
> need to make them unstick so I can turn them.
>
> Tapping them on the small end of the taper usually frees them up, but
> that gets the whole banjo out of tune. But then, who cares?
>

Beeswax. Buy it from a woodworking supplier, as it's generally cheaper
than some of the other varieties.

Should be sticky enough to hold, but pliable.

[hank alrich]

ScotFraser wrote:

> OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie.

They need Rivers.

--
ha

[Roger W. Norman]

Well, it's also a point of my being a far less than stellar recording
facility, especially with the remodel, so what's the point? I want these
guys coming in and playing music like they normally do, not playing to an
audience of the recording system. Puts people at ease far more quickly.
Also one of the reasons I don't have one of those red recording lights in
the studio. I had way too many problems with red light syndrome.

Ah, who cares. I think I'm just going to buy the local hardware store and
be done with this stuff. Then again it's got 2300 sq ft of empty space with
18 foot ceilings in the basement with an elevator! <g> I'm always thinking.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"ScotFraser" > wrote in message
...
> << What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you
unless
> you take the trouble to walk out ... >>
>
> I find some singers prefer being in a part of the tracking room where they
> can't be seen from the control room. Gives them a private space to perform
in,
> I believe.
>
>
> Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Can you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I follow. How do you keep the
control room monitors from feeding back while the producer mindlessly
holds down the talkback?
>>

Two situations:
(A) The talent is on headphones & talkback is only addressing the headphones.
No feedback.
(B) Talent is not on headphones & talkback is addressing the studio monitors.
In this case, the volume of the studio monitors has to be kept in check & the
volume in the control room has to be kept in check. In my studio, a comfortable
talkback level to the studio & a comfortable monitor level in the control room
is below the feedback threshold, although I know I tend to monitor at
conservative levels.
I find a lot of "producers" or clients tend to hold the talkback down
constantly, thinking it's a 2 way conversation, thus muting the response. For
me, it's very helpful to have talkback NOT mute the control room. Speeds up the
workflow by enhancing communication.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< They need Rivers. >>

More, apparently, than he needs them.


Scott Fraser

[Frank Vuotto]

On 22 Jul 2004 17:20:06 GMT, (ScotFraser) wrote:

>For
>me, it's very helpful to have talkback NOT mute the control room. Speeds up the
>workflow by enhancing communication.
>
>Scott Fraser

Amen to this. I prefer to have the talkback inserted after the mixer,
The circuit I use is here:

http://www.taosnet.com/f10/floobydust.htm


Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/