M-Audio: Audiphile 2496 or Delta-44

[chowdhury]

Hello, I am about to buy a sound card and trying to make a decision
between the 2. Is there any difference in sound quality from them.

I am aware that the 2496 has only 2 inputs, but its has midi and digital
.. That's good enough for me, I don't need 4 inputs and outputs. I also
have a pre-amp so i don't really need an outside box like in delta (if
that helps). I am mainly interested in the sound quality.

Does anyone know if the delta is better in sound quality. Quick response
will be greatly appreciated cause I am about to buy one as soon as i can
(today). Thanks.

[Arny Krueger]

"chowdhury" > wrote in message

> Hello, I am about to buy a sound card and trying to make a decision
> between the 2. Is there any difference in sound quality from them.
>
> I am aware that the 2496 has only 2 inputs, but its has midi and
> digital . That's good enough for me, I don't need 4 inputs and
> outputs. I also have a pre-amp so i don't really need an outside box
> like in delta (if that helps). I am mainly interested in the sound
> quality.
>
> Does anyone know if the delta is better in sound quality. Quick
> response will be greatly appreciated cause I am about to buy one as
> soon as i can (today). Thanks.

The Delta is designed work with standard audio production levels. The
Audiophile isn't.

[chowdhury]

I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the Soundcard
input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in deciding which card
is better for me. Thanks.


Arny Krueger wrote:

> "chowdhury" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Hello, I am about to buy a sound card and trying to make a decision
>>between the 2. Is there any difference in sound quality from them.
>>
>>I am aware that the 2496 has only 2 inputs, but its has midi and
>>digital . That's good enough for me, I don't need 4 inputs and
>>outputs. I also have a pre-amp so i don't really need an outside box
>>like in delta (if that helps). I am mainly interested in the sound
>>quality.
>>
>>Does anyone know if the delta is better in sound quality. Quick
>>response will be greatly appreciated cause I am about to buy one as
>>soon as i can (today). Thanks.
>
>
> The Delta is designed work with standard audio production levels. The
> Audiophile isn't.
>
>

[Ben Bradley]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:42:04 -0700, chowdhury >
wrote:

>
>I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the Soundcard
>input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in deciding which card
>is better for me. Thanks.

In that case, as long as you can set the levels right on whichever
one you get, it will make no noticable difference whatsoever to the
sound.

[tonejunkee]

chowdhury > wrote in message >...
> I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the Soundcard
> input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in deciding which card
> is better for me. Thanks.
>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "chowdhury" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> >>Hello, I am about to buy a sound card and trying to make a decision
> >>between the 2. Is there any difference in sound quality from them.
> >>
> >>I am aware that the 2496 has only 2 inputs, but its has midi and
> >>digital . That's good enough for me, I don't need 4 inputs and
> >>outputs. I also have a pre-amp so i don't really need an outside box
> >>like in delta (if that helps). I am mainly interested in the sound
> >>quality.
> >>
> >>Does anyone know if the delta is better in sound quality. Quick
> >>response will be greatly appreciated cause I am about to buy one as
> >>soon as i can (today). Thanks.
> >
> >
> > The Delta is designed work with standard audio production levels. The
> > Audiophile isn't.
> >
> >

Hello, I was in the exact same situation. I found that the Echo Mia
Midi is a better choice than the audiophile due to the +4 dbv
levels(pro) and the balanced 1/4 inch inputs/outputs(pro). I usually
rent vintage outboard mic pre's and run them into the echo - I was
floor'd by the sound when I first heard it. I will be adding another
mia to increase my inputs to 4.

"The secret to this whole gear craze is to pick a setup and stick with
it"

[John Fowler]

chowdhury > wrote in message >...
> I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the Soundcard
> input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in deciding which card
> is better for me. Thanks.
>
> >
> >
> > The Delta is designed work with standard audio production levels. The
> > Audiophile isn't.
> >



To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that accept
-10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made for.

The Berringer would overload the Audiophile. So what he is saying is
that it looks like you need the Delta.

By the way, it appears as though you have a lot of questions. If you
access this group through google intstead of newsgroups, you can get
many questions answered by using the 'within this group' option of the
search at the top. That way, you don't have to post with questions
that have been asked and answered so many times already here.

Good luck.

[Arny Krueger]

"Ben Bradley" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:42:04 -0700, chowdhury >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the
>> Soundcard input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in
>> deciding which card is better for me. Thanks.

> In that case, as long as you can set the levels right on whichever
> one you get, it will make no noticable difference whatsoever to the
> sound.

It's not always that easy, because modern sound cards as a rule lack analog
input level controls. Therefore the peak levels you can use on the source
are going to be limited to the input overload point of the sound card, which
for consumer cards including the AP2496, is about 1 volt.

A possible work-around would be to add some kind of passive analog
attenuator to the input of the sound card, one that provided 10-15 dB loss.

Most good audio production gear is designed to handle and deliver peak
levels on the order of 6 volts or more. So, you're going to have to give up
about 15 dB of the potential dynamic range of any standard audio production
equipment that you use with a consumer sound card. To put this into a real
world context, most good audio production gear has over 80 dB dynamic range,
and some of it has up to 120 dB dynamic range or more. Depending on the rest
of the equipment, this loss of 15 dB dynamic range is either a nit or limit
with some significance.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:42:04 -0700, chowdhury >
> > wrote:
> >> I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the
> >> Soundcard input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in
> >> deciding which card is better for me.

> It's not always that easy, because modern sound cards as a rule lack analog
> input level controls. Therefore the peak levels you can use on the source
> are going to be limited to the input overload point of the sound card, which
> for consumer cards including the AP2496, is about 1 volt.

> Most good audio production gear is designed to handle and deliver peak
> levels on the order of 6 volts or more. So, you're going to have to give up
> about 15 dB of the potential dynamic range of any standard audio production
> equipment that you use with a consumer sound card.

Another issue is that a typical mic preamp these days has 60 dB of
gain. Regardless of its nominal operating level (-10 dBV or +4 dBu),
for a given sound pressure level at a given microphone, both will have
the same output level, as long as that doesn't exceed the maxiumum
level of the preamp. Since most +4 dBu devices (which includes most
outboard mic preamps) these days have a maximum output level of +22 to
+24 dBu, and most nominal +4 dBu sound cards are calibrated so that
full scale is reached with an input level of +20 to +24 dBu, if you
need a lot of gain in the mic preamp, you're more likely to be able to
reach full scale for a given SPL if you use it with a sound card with
a -10 dBV input. But you're also likely to be able to drive the card's
A/D cnverter into clipping.

Also, if you need a lot of gain, you're more likely to reach or very
nearly reach clipping of the preamp when going into a +4 nominal input
than a -10 nominal input. You won't clip the sound card's A/D
converter (the preamp may simply not be capable of putting out enough
voltage to do so) but you'll be making a nice clean recording of a
clipped (by the preamp) signal.

This leads to "this mic isn't very hot" or "this preamp isn't very
hot" issues which could be solved if it was possible to adjust the
input sensitivity of the sound card to match the preamp output level.
The real solution would be to settle on a standard for analog vs.
digital calibration, that would mean that too many manufacturers would
have to change their products, or change their marketing.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Kurt Albershardt]

Mike Rivers wrote:
>
> Another issue is that a typical mic preamp these days has 60 dB of
> gain. Regardless of its nominal operating level (-10 dBV or +4 dBu),
> for a given sound pressure level at a given microphone, both will have
> the same output level, as long as that doesn't exceed the maxiumum
> level of the preamp. Since most +4 dBu devices (which includes most
> outboard mic preamps) these days have a maximum output level of +22 to
> +24 dBu, and most nominal +4 dBu sound cards are calibrated so that
> full scale is reached with an input level of +20 to +24 dBu, if you
> need a lot of gain in the mic preamp, you're more likely to be able to
> reach full scale for a given SPL if you use it with a sound card with
> a -10 dBV input. But you're also likely to be able to drive the card's
> A/D cnverter into clipping.
>
> Also, if you need a lot of gain, you're more likely to reach or very
> nearly reach clipping of the preamp when going into a +4 nominal input
> than a -10 nominal input. You won't clip the sound card's A/D
> converter (the preamp may simply not be capable of putting out enough
> voltage to do so) but you'll be making a nice clean recording of a
> clipped (by the preamp) signal.
>
> This leads to "this mic isn't very hot" or "this preamp isn't very
> hot" issues which could be solved if it was possible to adjust the
> input sensitivity of the sound card to match the preamp output level.

I often find that switching my ADI-8DS input gain to a lower setting gives me a lower noisefloor than cranking the preamp up. I would miss that functionality in many of today's converters.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1090328731k@trad
> In article >
> writes:
>
>>> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:42:04 -0700, chowdhury >
>>> wrote:
>>>> I have a berringer ultragain pro pre-amp. I going to feed the
>>>> Soundcard input from the pre-amp. Hopefully this info helps in
>>>> deciding which card is better for me.
>
>> It's not always that easy, because modern sound cards as a rule lack
>> analog input level controls. Therefore the peak levels you can use
>> on the source are going to be limited to the input overload point of
>> the sound card, which for consumer cards including the AP2496, is
>> about 1 volt.
>
>> Most good audio production gear is designed to handle and deliver
>> peak levels on the order of 6 volts or more. So, you're going to
>> have to give up about 15 dB of the potential dynamic range of any
>> standard audio production equipment that you use with a consumer
>> sound card.

> Another issue is that a typical mic preamp these days has 60 dB of
> gain. Regardless of its nominal operating level (-10 dBV or +4 dBu),
> for a given sound pressure level at a given microphone, both will have
> the same output level, as long as that doesn't exceed the maxiumum
> level of the preamp.

Right, because a mic preamp with 60 dB gain has 60 dB gain no matter what
the reference level it is designed for.

> Since most +4 dBu devices (which includes most
> outboard mic preamps) these days have a maximum output level of +22 to
> +24 dBu,

Agreed.

> and most nominal +4 dBu sound cards are calibrated so that
> full scale is reached with an input level of +20 to +24 dBu,

I would say more like 14 to 16 dB.

> if you need a lot of gain in the mic preamp, you're more likely to be
able to
> reach full scale for a given SPL if you use it with a sound card with
> a -10 dBV input.

In essence this adds about 11 dB gain.


<But you're also likely to be able to drive the card's A/D cnverter into
clipping.

That's the sitch with consumer sound cards. Most of the Delta series cards
other than the "Audiophile" series are switchable for -10 dB or +4 (nominal)
inputs. My recollection is that in either case, clipping is about 10 dB
higher than the nominal input.

> Also, if you need a lot of gain, you're more likely to reach or very
> nearly reach clipping of the preamp when going into a +4 nominal input
> than a -10 nominal input.

Because the card is like to clip first.


> You won't clip the sound card's A/D
> converter (the preamp may simply not be capable of putting out enough
> voltage to do so) but you'll be making a nice clean recording of a
> clipped (by the preamp) signal.

Given that most sound cards in +4 mode clip about 6 dB lower than most audio
production gear including mic preamps, I'd put the sound card up as being
the most likely to clip, either way.

> This leads to "this mic isn't very hot" or "this preamp isn't very
> hot" issues which could be solved if it was possible to adjust the
> input sensitivity of the sound card to match the preamp output level.

Good point, if the sound card lets you choose between -10 and +4. Think of
the -10 input sensitivity as an 11 dB un-attenuator.

> The real solution would be to settle on a standard for analog vs.
> digital calibration, that would mean that too many manufacturers would
> have to change their products, or change their marketing.

IME most cards in +4 mode reach FS at a point that is either 10 or 12 dB
over nominal input. On the one had a standard would be nice, but a 2 dB
range is generally not a biggie. Of course people need to learn that digital
is not going to suddenly start sounding bad, just because there's up to 2 dB
headroom.

[Arny Krueger]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message


> I often find that switching my ADI-8DS input gain to a lower setting
> gives me a lower noisefloor than cranking the preamp up.

As you know, that means that either the preamp and/or the card's dynamic
range is not constant with changes in gain.

I wonder which device is dominant here. I would guess that its the preamp.

If a gain control is at the output of a device, then its dynamic range does
not change with changes in gain. The noise floor moves up and down along
with changes in output due to changes of the gain control.

If a gain control is at the input of a device, then dynamic range tends to
increase with an increase in gain. IOW the noise floor tends not to move
down with a decrease of the output due to a decrease in the setting of the
gain control.

Your example seems to follow neither rule. This corresponds to a gain
control someplace in the middle of the device, which is a common pattern
with mic preamps.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> IME most cards in +4 mode reach FS at a point that is either 10 or 12 dB
> over nominal input. On the one had a standard would be nice, but a 2 dB
> range is generally not a biggie.

You've run thorugh a lot of sound cards, so I'll trust your
observation. However, I'd rather have more than 12 dB of headroom over
the nominal operating level, considering that mic preamps typically
have 18-22 dB of headroom over their operating level. I calibrate my
DAT so that +4 dBu out of my console is -20 dBFS. I'm pretty sure my
Lynx L22 is about the same, maybe -18 dBFS. But my Mackie HDR24/96
requires +24 dBu to light the clip light and my console won't quite
make that cleanly. So my Mackie levels are always quite conservative.

> Of course people need to learn that digital
> is not going to suddenly start sounding bad, just because there's up to 2 dB
> headroom.

Some A/D converters do get a little funky the last couple of dB before
full scale. With 16 bits, I used to try to keep peaks higher than
-6 dBFS, but with 24-bit recording, I don't worry if they never make
it past -10. But then I'm not very fussy, and I don't have a
compulsion to make playback systems distort when playing my
recordings.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[TonyP]

"John Fowler" > wrote in message
om...
> To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that accept
> -10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
> uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made for.
>
> The Berringer would overload the Audiophile. So what he is saying is
> that it looks like you need the Delta.

Not necessarily. The Delta is more suitable sure, but the Behringer WON'T
overload the Audiophile if you know how to adjust levels. Can we assume the
software has proper metering?
What's more, the recorder outputs are probably at consumer levels, so it
will depend on how you plan to connect it as well. If he still had problems
he could simply use pads.
IMO the real benefit of a soundcard with +4dB inputs is to provide the
possibility of better dynamic range within the soundcard.

TonyP.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Can we assume the
> software has proper metering?

Some does and some doesn't. It's getting better as a generalization.
The trick is to get the user to actually LOOK at the meters, and to
understand that he's NOT doing something wrong if they aren't sitting
at full scale all the time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Arny Krueger]

"TonyP" > wrote in message
u
> "John Fowler" > wrote in message
> om...

>> To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that accept
>> -10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
>> uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made for.

>> The Berringer would overload the Audiophile. So what he is saying is
>> that it looks like you need the Delta.
>
> Not necessarily. The Delta is more suitable sure, but the Behringer
> WON'T overload the Audiophile if you know how to adjust levels. Can
> we assume the software has proper metering?

In the end it does, because you can always monitor the recording. That's
usually more representtative than meters, anyway.

However, my point has been that if you do that, you're giving up something
like 15 dB worth of dynamic range in the source unless you add some
attenuation before the input of the consumer audio interface card.

> What's more, the recorder outputs are probably at consumer levels, so
> it will depend on how you plan to connect it as well. If he still had
> problems he could simply use pads.

Exactly.

> IMO the real benefit of a soundcard with +4dB inputs is to provide the
> possibility of better dynamic range within the soundcard.

Now that we have $100 sound cards with ca. 100 dB dynamic range, its
probably not the weakest link. But as I've shown, consumer sound cards can
force other parts of the system into suboptimal operation. And yes, you can
probably give up 15 dB dynamic range without problems, but you don't want to
do it more than once. You may rather use that 15 dB for headroom.

[Lorin David Schultz]

In article > writes:
>
> > IME most cards in +4 mode reach FS at a point that is either 10 or
12 dB
> > over nominal input. On the one had a standard would be nice, but a 2
dB
> > range is generally not a biggie.



I'm not positive about this, but I think the output of the MBox will
only reach +4 with a 0dBFS signal. Kind of annoying when you're trying
to interface with pro analog gear downstream.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "TonyP" > wrote in message
> u
> > "John Fowler" > wrote in message
> > om...
>
> >> To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that accept
> >> -10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
> >> uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made for.

I didn't catch this whole thread but the Delta has selectable -10/+4 inputs
and outputs and the Audiophile might too.

[Arny Krueger]

"Ricky W. Hunt" > wrote in message
news:RtxLc.139338$JR4.5765@attbi_s54
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "TonyP" > wrote in message
>> u
>>> "John Fowler" > wrote in message
>>> om...
>>
>>>> To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that
>>>> accept
>>>> -10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
>>>> uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made
>>>> for.
>
> I didn't catch this whole thread but the Delta has selectable -10/+4
> inputs and outputs and the Audiophile might too.

The rest of the Delta line is -10/+4 selectable, but not the AP2496.

Compare

http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Audiophile2496_Manual.pdf

Page 24 - the picture of the control panel, under "Variable Settings -
Output"

(there are no input voltage settings - the card just clips at I believe it
is 1.2 volts)

to

http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Delta1010LT-Manual.pdf

"In the first layer there are three selections available for globally
setting the operating line
levels for the Delta 1010LT's analog input and output ports. These
selections are labeled
"+4dBu," "Consumer" (-4dB), and "-10dBV," represented by sets of radio
buttons each for
both the Delta analog inputs and the Delta analog outputs. These sections
are labeled "All
Inputs" and "All Outputs," respectively."

This is typical of most of the PCI cards in the Delta series.

The 1010 differs in that it uses individual input and output -10/+4
pushbutton switches on the interface box.

[Mike Rivers]

In article <ckwLc.107260$eO.80936@edtnps89> writes:

> I'm not positive about this, but I think the output of the MBox will
> only reach +4 with a 0dBFS signal. Kind of annoying when you're trying
> to interface with pro analog gear downstream.

Give or take a couple, that's typical of a "-10 dBV" sound card with
an optimistic 15 or 16 dB of pseudo-headroom. It's not really suitable
for driving a +4 dBu device unless you like to have a lot of headroom
that you will never use.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[chowdhury]

Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion. I bought the Delta
because it has the balanced inputs. Plus its so cheap nowadays only
$150, Audiophile cost $100.

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Ricky W. Hunt" > wrote in message
> news:RtxLc.139338$JR4.5765@attbi_s54
>
>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"TonyP" > wrote in message
u
>>>
>>>>"John Fowler" > wrote in message
om...
>>>
>>>>>To explain that further to you, consumer gear uses inputs that
>>>>>accept
>>>>>-10 dB level, and that's what the Audiophile is made for. Pro gear
>>>>>uses inputs that accept the +4 dB level, which the Delta is made
>>>>>for.
>>
>>I didn't catch this whole thread but the Delta has selectable -10/+4
>>inputs and outputs and the Audiophile might too.
>
>
> The rest of the Delta line is -10/+4 selectable, but not the AP2496.
>
> Compare
>
> http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Audiophile2496_Manual.pdf
>
> Page 24 - the picture of the control panel, under "Variable Settings -
> Output"
>
> (there are no input voltage settings - the card just clips at I believe it
> is 1.2 volts)
>
> to
>
> http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/manuals/Delta1010LT-Manual.pdf
>
> "In the first layer there are three selections available for globally
> setting the operating line
> levels for the Delta 1010LT's analog input and output ports. These
> selections are labeled
> "+4dBu," "Consumer" (-4dB), and "-10dBV," represented by sets of radio
> buttons each for
> both the Delta analog inputs and the Delta analog outputs. These sections
> are labeled "All
> Inputs" and "All Outputs," respectively."
>
> This is typical of most of the PCI cards in the Delta series.
>
> The 1010 differs in that it uses individual input and output -10/+4
> pushbutton switches on the interface box.
>
>
>
>

[Arny Krueger]

"chowdhury" > wrote in message


> Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion. I bought the
> Delta because it has the balanced inputs. Plus its so cheap nowadays
> only $150, Audiophile cost $100.

The Delta 44 and Delta 66 don't have true balanced I/O. The input is simply
unbalanced (ring hooked to air) while the outputs are impedance balanced
(ring hooked to a resistor to ground).

The 1010 has true balanced inputs, but just impedance balanced outputs.

the 1010LT has two balanced inputs, while the rest of the inputs and outputs
are RCAs and therefore obviously unbalanced.

[Ben Bradley]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:11:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"chowdhury" > wrote in message

>
>> Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion. I bought the
>> Delta because it has the balanced inputs. Plus its so cheap nowadays
>> only $150, Audiophile cost $100.
>
>The Delta 44 and Delta 66 don't have true balanced I/O. The input is simply
>unbalanced (ring hooked to air)

Actually, the ring is connnected to a resistor (with the same
resistance as the tip's input impedance) to ground, apparently so that
the input gets correctly (sort-of) driven by a balanced transformer
output. Otherwise a transformer would just drive the unconnected ring,
with nothing into the tip.

>while the outputs are impedance balanced
>(ring hooked to a resistor to ground).
>
>The 1010 has true balanced inputs, but just impedance balanced outputs.
>
>the 1010LT has two balanced inputs, while the rest of the inputs and outputs
>are RCAs and therefore obviously unbalanced.
>

[Arny Krueger]

"Ben Bradley" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:11:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:

>> "chowdhury" > wrote in message
>>

>>> Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion. I bought the
>>> Delta because it has the balanced inputs. Plus its so cheap nowadays
>>> only $150, Audiophile cost $100.

>> The Delta 44 and Delta 66 don't have true balanced I/O. The input is
>> simply unbalanced (ring hooked to air)

> Actually, the ring is connnected to a resistor (with the same
> resistance as the tip's input impedance) to ground, apparently so that
> the input gets correctly (sort-of) driven by a balanced transformer
> output. Otherwise a transformer would just drive the unconnected ring,
> with nothing into the tip.

Thanks for the correction.

>> while the outputs are impedance balanced
>> (ring hooked to a resistor to ground).

>> The 1010 has true balanced inputs, but just impedance balanced
>> outputs.

>> the 1010LT has two balanced inputs, while the rest of the inputs and
>> outputs are RCAs and therefore obviously unbalanced.

[chowdhury]

If Delta does not have true balanced inputs then is it not that good,
whats a better card at under $250 price range (the 1010 is under $250
but i need max 4 inputs, its a overkill). I am not searching Google for
this cause prices have come down a lot and the google information is too
old probably?

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "chowdhury" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion. I bought the
>>Delta because it has the balanced inputs. Plus its so cheap nowadays
>>only $150, Audiophile cost $100.
>
>
> The Delta 44 and Delta 66 don't have true balanced I/O. The input is simply
> unbalanced (ring hooked to air) while the outputs are impedance balanced
> (ring hooked to a resistor to ground).
>
> The 1010 has true balanced inputs, but just impedance balanced outputs.
>
> the 1010LT has two balanced inputs, while the rest of the inputs and outputs
> are RCAs and therefore obviously unbalanced.
>
>