What USB audio interface to get?

[Eric Desrochers]

Hello all! It's been some time since I last come back here. I'm mostly
on AAPL these days.

I want to buy an inexpensive USB audio interface with built-in pre-amp
to use along an iBook G4 for simple on location recordings.

I've read hundreds of posts here and yet cannot make a definitive
choice!

I've checked the M-Audio Duo, the M-Audio Mobile Pre, the Edirol UA-5
and the Tascam US-122. These are all in my price ball-park. Here are
some information I got so far :

The Duo is discontinuated and will have to be bought used.
The Mobile Pre is reported to be noisier than the other.
The Duo and the UA-5 use AC adaptors, the others are USB powered.
The US-122 don't have digital I/O.
The US-122 have MIDI.

96kHz sampling is not an issue for me at this time, however, 24 bits
would be nice.

So far, the Duo and the US-122 are my favorites. The USB powered Tascam
is tempting but ultimately, I'd favor good sound, particularly low noise
floor.

So what do you think of those two, sonically?

Thanks!
--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Suso Ramallo]

Hello,

Sound Devices USBPre www.usbpre.com

Cheers

"Eric Desrochers" > escribió en el mensaje
...
> Hello all! It's been some time since I last come back here. I'm mostly
> on AAPL these days.
>
> I want to buy an inexpensive USB audio interface with built-in pre-amp
> to use along an iBook G4 for simple on location recordings.
>
> I've read hundreds of posts here and yet cannot make a definitive
> choice!
>
> I've checked the M-Audio Duo, the M-Audio Mobile Pre, the Edirol UA-5
> and the Tascam US-122. These are all in my price ball-park. Here are
> some information I got so far :
>
> The Duo is discontinuated and will have to be bought used.
> The Mobile Pre is reported to be noisier than the other.
> The Duo and the UA-5 use AC adaptors, the others are USB powered.
> The US-122 don't have digital I/O.
> The US-122 have MIDI.
>
> 96kHz sampling is not an issue for me at this time, however, 24 bits
> would be nice.
>
> So far, the Duo and the US-122 are my favorites. The USB powered Tascam
> is tempting but ultimately, I'd favor good sound, particularly low noise
> floor.
>
> So what do you think of those two, sonically?
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Eric (Dero) Desrochers
> http://homepage.mac.com/dero72
>
> Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Eric Desrochers]

Suso Ramallo > wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Sound Devices USBPre www.usbpre.com
>
> Cheers

Hello! I looked those and they seem to be of even greater quality.
Unfortunately, they are 3 times more expensive than my budget!

Thanks anyway!

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Suso Ramallo]

Hello Eric,

Try on eBay, is a very good device.

Cheers

"Eric Desrochers" > escribió en el mensaje
...
> Suso Ramallo > wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Sound Devices USBPre www.usbpre.com
> >
> > Cheers
>
> Hello! I looked those and they seem to be of even greater quality.
> Unfortunately, they are 3 times more expensive than my budget!
>
> Thanks anyway!
>
> --
> Eric (Dero) Desrochers
> http://homepage.mac.com/dero72
>
> Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Bob Urz]

Eric Desrochers wrote:
> Suso Ramallo > wrote:
>
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Sound Devices USBPre www.usbpre.com
>>
>>Cheers
>
>
> Hello! I looked those and they seem to be of even greater quality.
> Unfortunately, they are 3 times more expensive than my budget!
>
> Thanks anyway!
>

We have been using US122's and like them. We just recently had one lose
one input channel though. They will do 24 bit, but no 96K. They self USB
power. COrrect, no digital in or out. But, midi in and out. IT also has
inserts for effects. For the price there not a bad box.

Bob



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[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I want to buy an inexpensive USB audio interface with built-in pre-amp
> to use along an iBook G4 for simple on location recordings.
>
> I've read hundreds of posts here and yet cannot make a definitive
> choice!

That's because you can't. Just find one that has the right kind of
inputs and outputs and buy it. If you don't care for it, you
probably wouldn't care for anyting else in the same price class, so
you use it until you have some more money and then get one that costs
three times as much.

> So far, the Duo and the US-122 are my favorites. The USB powered Tascam
> is tempting but ultimately, I'd favor good sound, particularly low noise
> floor.

For what it's worth, the only problems I had with the US-122 when I had
it here for review (Recording, December 2003) was with phantom power.
When I switched on the phantom power, it dumped its drivers and I had
to unplug it and let them be found again (with the phantom switch on).
Also, I blew out one of the mic input channels when I plugged in a
shorted mic cable with the phantom power on. I suspect that the first
problem was something unique to my Dell laptop. With it connected to my
desktop computer, I could switch phantom power on and off with no
problems and no interruptions.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Eric Desrochers]

Thanks Mike. While probing this group on the Google archives, you were
involved in all the threads dealing with one or the other of those
devices, with great advices, so I know you must know your stuff about
them!

I currently have no uses for neither digital I/O nor MIDI so it's a tie.
Like I said, USB powered is cool but the audio quality is more
important. The Duo seem to have a lower noise floor, but it may just be
a question of how it is measured from one manufacturer to the other.
--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The Duo seem to have a lower noise floor, but it may just be
> a question of how it is measured from one manufacturer to the other.

Definitely. And the fact that you're putting analog in and getting
digital out means that you can't really express the gain of the preamp
in traditional terms. It also means you can't calculate a meaningful
EIN (noise with the gain subtracted out). With a dummy termination
across the mic input of the US-122, I measured -82 dBFS coming out the
digital side. That's not too bad, but my Digigram VX Pocket card
measured -95 dBFS under the same conditions. You won't read about
those measurements on a manufacturer's web site though.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[J.W.]

Are you doing overdubs? If so, the M-Audio Duo is not workable at all
live multitracking. I bought one, and returned it and got a
SoundDevices USBPre instead.

You can read more about it in this thread:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=lfjidu8046ppep12kjd9tnnob8o35ep2ht%404ax.c om&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dm-audio%2Bduo%2Busbpre%26ie%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den


On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:57:57 GMT, (Eric
Desrochers) wrote:

>
>So far, the Duo and the US-122 are my favorites. The USB powered Tascam
>is tempting but ultimately, I'd favor good sound, particularly low noise
>floor.
>
>So what do you think of those two, sonically?
>
>Thanks!

[Kurt Albershardt]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
>
>> The Duo seem to have a lower noise floor, but it may just be
>> a question of how it is measured from one manufacturer to the other.
>
>
> Definitely. And the fact that you're putting analog in and getting
> digital out means that you can't really express the gain of the preamp
> in traditional terms. It also means you can't calculate a meaningful
> EIN (noise with the gain subtracted out). With a dummy termination
> across the mic input of the US-122, I measured -82 dBFS coming out the
> digital side. That's not too bad, but my Digigram VX Pocket card
> measured -95 dBFS under the same conditions.

At what gain settings or sensitivities?




> You won't read about
> those measurements on a manufacturer's web site though.

I am still looking for an affordable USB interface for a music teacher and I would really love to have some meaningful data on them.

[Eric Desrochers]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> In article >
> writes:
>
> > The Duo seem to have a lower noise floor, but it may just be a question
> > of how it is measured from one manufacturer to the other.
>
> Definitely. And the fact that you're putting analog in and getting digital
> out means that you can't really express the gain of the preamp in
> traditional terms. It also means you can't calculate a meaningful EIN
> (noise with the gain subtracted out). With a dummy termination across the
> mic input of the US-122, I measured -82 dBFS coming out the digital side.

Oh, it's no better than that? The stock 1/8" line input in my
Blue&White PowerMac G3 have a -80 dBFS noise floor and that's with open
input, ie no dummy load. I'm somewhat puzzled that a "pro" device can
barely do better??

A 24 bit device that capture only 13.5 actual bits is not cool :(


--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Eric Desrochers]

J.W. > wrote:

> Are you doing overdubs? If so, the M-Audio Duo is not workable at all
> live multitracking. I bought one, and returned it and got a
> SoundDevices USBPre instead.

I'd think an external mixer would allow this? Of course, that would
mean using the mixer's preamp or splitting the mic signal between the
mixer and the interface.

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > Definitely. And the fact that you're putting analog in and getting
> > digital out means that you can't really express the gain of the preamp
> > in traditional terms. It also means you can't calculate a meaningful
> > EIN (noise with the gain subtracted out). With a dummy termination
> > across the mic input of the US-122, I measured -82 dBFS coming out the
> > digital side. That's not too bad, but my Digigram VX Pocket card
> > measured -95 dBFS under the same conditions.
>
> At what gain settings or sensitivities?

As I wrote, you can't really tell what the gain is since you have
volts in and bits out. The -82 dBFS was either with the pots all the
way up or all the way down - I don't remember which - but there wasn't
really a lot of difference in the noise either way. The noise floor
will be at least -82 dBFS.

> I am still looking for an affordable USB interface for a music teacher and I
> would really love to have some meaningful data on them.

Buy a US-122 and try it. If it's good enough for the application, keep
it. If it isn't, return it. It's not something exotic. Any legitimate
dealer you buy it from will take it back and give you a refund.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[J.W.]

Yes, you'd have to use external mixer. Wasn't sure if you're trying
to get by without using external mixer.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:46:07 GMT, (Eric
Desrochers) wrote:

>J.W. > wrote:
>
>> Are you doing overdubs? If so, the M-Audio Duo is not workable at all
>> live multitracking. I bought one, and returned it and got a
>> SoundDevices USBPre instead.
>
>I'd think an external mixer would allow this? Of course, that would
>mean using the mixer's preamp or splitting the mic signal between the
>mixer and the interface.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The stock 1/8" line input in my
> Blue&White PowerMac G3 have a -80 dBFS noise floor and that's with open
> input, ie no dummy load. I'm somewhat puzzled that a "pro" device can
> barely do better??

I was a bit underwhelmed with the noise floor myself, but then who's
calling it "pro?" It's just darn handy. I can do everything it can
do and more and do it better with my VX Pocket and Mackie 1402VLZ-Pro,
but that's nearly $900 worth of stuff as compared to as little as $200
for a US-122.

For $200, you don't get professional quality sound, you get a lot of
convenience and functionality in a handy box that's big enough so you
won't knock it off the table, and sturdy enough so that it won't get
hurt too badly if you do.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Bob Cain]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
>
>>The Duo seem to have a lower noise floor, but it may just be
>>a question of how it is measured from one manufacturer to the other.
>
>
> Definitely. And the fact that you're putting analog in and getting
> digital out means that you can't really express the gain of the preamp
> in traditional terms. It also means you can't calculate a meaningful
> EIN (noise with the gain subtracted out). With a dummy termination
> across the mic input of the US-122, I measured -82 dBFS coming out the
> digital side. That's not too bad, but my Digigram VX Pocket card
> measured -95 dBFS under the same conditions. You won't read about
> those measurements on a manufacturer's web site though.

Hmmm, with 600 ohms across the mic in, no phantom, using a
10 mV, 1 kHz sin wave as reference I measured -127 dBV rms
A-weighted noise. That's as good or better than the RNP.

For me, noise has just not been an issue with this box. The
only issue I've had is that it could use more gain.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

[Eric Desrochers]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> who's
> calling it "pro?"

Me, because it has XLR plugs LOL! Besides, Tascam is not sold at
WallMart, Sears or any other such outlet, hence it is obviously not
"consummer" :)

> For $200, you don't get professional quality sound, you get a lot of
> convenience and functionality in a handy box that's big enough so you
> won't knock it off the table, and sturdy enough so that it won't get
> hurt too badly if you do.

Do you or anyone else did the same noise floor measurment of the A/D on
a M-Audio Duo?

Thanks again.

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Hmmm, with 600 ohms across the mic in, no phantom, using a
> 10 mV, 1 kHz sin wave as reference I measured -127 dBV rms
> A-weighted noise. That's as good or better than the RNP.
>
> For me, noise has just not been an issue with this box. The
> only issue I've had is that it could use more gain.

Like we said, different measurement conditions. I measured it with 150
ohms across the input and didn't use A weighting. The 60 Hz hum
component was around -86 dBV and that would just about go away with
A-weighting. I suspect that in some cases, it could be audible. And in
other cases (perhaps connected to a different laptop computer) there
would be less, or maybe more hum.

Curiously I didn't see the hum go away when I unplugged the laptop
from the power supply and ran it on its batteries, so I assume the hum
was being picked up by the box. I didn't try carrying it around the
house to try to find a quiet spot, but I thought that it was
significant that it was capable of humming in what might be a
typical installation - a laptop computer on a desk.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Bob Cain]

Mike Rivers wrote:


>
> Curiously I didn't see the hum go away when I unplugged the laptop
> from the power supply and ran it on its batteries, so I assume the hum
> was being picked up by the box. I didn't try carrying it around the
> house to try to find a quiet spot, but I thought that it was
> significant that it was capable of humming in what might be a
> typical installation - a laptop computer on a desk.

Interesting. I saw no hum bump at all and I was powering it
with an iBook on adapter.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein