Recording Studio in basement - advice (help) needed...

[Brian Huether]

I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
to crank them for fear of bothering neighbors. So my wife and I
decided to buy a house. It has a basement with a finished 18x12 room,
and a finished 10x10 room. They currently have ceramic tile though. So
my questions are

1. Is it best to have carpeted floors?
2. Which room should be for monitoring, and which for my speaker cab?
The bigger room for the cab, right?
3. Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it
be to rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? Can I
indeed do that, or would I need to tear down the whole wall and start
from scratch? I suppose it would depend on what lays within the wall,
huh?

And regarding sound proofing, etc. I am not very handy and so can not
do DIY accoustical treatment, unless it is very basic (i.e. attaching
foam to walls, etc). How much would it cost for me to bring in a
consultant and have some sufficient (i.e. not hard core, obsessive)
accoustical treatment done (I will need someone in the Boston area).
The most important thing to me is

a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking
into my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. Ok,
so perhaps I won't be cranking the amps, but I definately want to make
my amps work hard!

b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc).

c) having convenient cabling and communication between the two rooms

Also, if anybody could help me with this project, that would be most
appreciated. We move in on Sept 6 (Billerica, MA) and I want to hit
the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).

regards,

brian
www.guitar-dreams.com

[Raymond]

>From: (Brian Huether)
>Date: 7/16/04 3:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
>to crank them for fear of bothering neighbors. So my wife and I
>decided to buy a house. It has a basement with a finished 18x12 room,
>and a finished 10x10 room. They currently have ceramic tile though. So
>my questions are
>
>1. Is it best to have carpeted floors?
>2. Which room should be for monitoring, and which for my speaker cab?
>The bigger room for the cab, right?
>3. Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it
>be to rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? Can I
>indeed do that, or would I need to tear down the whole wall and start
>from scratch? I suppose it would depend on what lays within the wall,
>huh?
>
>And regarding sound proofing, etc. I am not very handy and so can not
>do DIY accoustical treatment, unless it is very basic (i.e. attaching
>foam to walls, etc). How much would it cost for me to bring in a
>consultant and have some sufficient (i.e. not hard core, obsessive)
>accoustical treatment done (I will need someone in the Boston area).
>The most important thing to me is
>
>a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking
>into my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. Ok,
>so perhaps I won't be cranking the amps, but I definately want to make
>my amps work hard!
>
>b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
>components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc).
>
>c) having convenient cabling and communication between the two rooms
>
>Also, if anybody could help me with this project, that would be most
>appreciated. We move in on Sept 6 (Billerica, MA) and I want to hit
>the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
>seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
>price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).

Read this.
http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimmerman/recordingfaq/RFAQ.html

[Raymond]

>From: (Brian Huether)
>Date: 7/16/04 3:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
>to crank them for fear of bothering neighbors. So my wife and I
>decided to buy a house. It has a basement with a finished 18x12 room,
>and a finished 10x10 room. They currently have ceramic tile though. So
>my questions are
>
>1. Is it best to have carpeted floors?
>2. Which room should be for monitoring, and which for my speaker cab?
>The bigger room for the cab, right?
>3. Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it
>be to rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? Can I
>indeed do that, or would I need to tear down the whole wall and start
>from scratch? I suppose it would depend on what lays within the wall,
>huh?
>
>And regarding sound proofing, etc. I am not very handy and so can not
>do DIY accoustical treatment, unless it is very basic (i.e. attaching
>foam to walls, etc). How much would it cost for me to bring in a
>consultant and have some sufficient (i.e. not hard core, obsessive)
>accoustical treatment done (I will need someone in the Boston area).
>The most important thing to me is
>
>a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking
>into my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. Ok,
>so perhaps I won't be cranking the amps, but I definately want to make
>my amps work hard!
>
>b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
>components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc).
>
>c) having convenient cabling and communication between the two rooms
>
>Also, if anybody could help me with this project, that would be most
>appreciated. We move in on Sept 6 (Billerica, MA) and I want to hit
>the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
>seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
>price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).

Read this.
http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimmerman/recordingfaq/RFAQ.html

[Ethan Winer]

Brian,

You asked an awful lot of questions - intentionally or not! - so I'll hit
just the high points.

> 1. Is it best to have carpeted floors? <

It depends. But look at the studios on any cover of Mix magazine. You'll see
they all have a reflective floor. It doesn't have to be fancy wood. Linoleum
and painted or even stained cement sound good too.

> 2. Which room should be for monitoring <

The bigger room. No question.

> Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it be to
rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? <

Very difficult. Even if you make a perfect wall, a lot of sound will get
through to the other side via the side walls and ceiling.

> How much would it cost for me to bring in a consultant <

Between free (someone here volunteers) and several thousand dollars. I
suggest you read up a bit first to learn as much as you can on your own.

> a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking into
my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. <

Very difficult in a house.

> b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc). <

That's much more attainable.

For acoustics and treatment issues see the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list
on my Articles page:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

For sound isolation issues you'll get good advice over at John Sayers'
forum:

www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

--Ethan

[U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles]

On 16 Jul 2004 00:02:55 -0700, Brian Huether > wrote:
> I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
> to crank them for fear of bothering neighbors. So my wife and I
> decided to buy a house. It has a basement with a finished 18x12 room,
> and a finished 10x10 room. They currently have ceramic tile though. So
> my questions are
>

SWMBO agreed to buy a house for your recording studio???? Where'd you
meet her? Does she have a sister??

*coughs*

Okay, There are MANY articles on sound isolation. They involve mass,
absorbtion, and isolation. If you're NOT handy, you'll have to have
someone else do the work, which may be out of your budget . . .

You can probably have a Good Enough solution simply by scheduling your
guitar tracking for daylight hours when the baby isn't sleeping. That
will require much less isolation than recording at 3am will.

Also take a look at www.ethanwiner.com for several good discussions of
the principles involved.

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:59:51 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" <"Charles
> wrote:

>You can probably have a Good Enough solution simply by scheduling your
>guitar tracking for daylight hours when the baby isn't sleeping. That
>will require much less isolation than recording at 3am will.

Acoustic guitar = 75dB
Crying baby = 180dB

No contest. Record at 3am.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Adam B]

(Brian Huether) wrote in message >...
> I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
> to crank them So
> my questions are
>
> 1. Is it best to have carpeted floors?
If it currently has concrete, the cheap answer is yes. Expensive
answer is to float a wooden floor - seperate floats for the two floors
for control room and live room.

> 2. Which room should be for monitoring, and which for my speaker cab?
> The bigger room for the cab, right?
Yep. Depends what sizes we're talking but in general if I had a bigger
room and a smaller one the bigger one gets the loud instruments.

> 3. Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it
> be to rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? Can I
> indeed do that, or would I need to tear down the whole wall and start
> from scratch? I suppose it would depend on what lays within the wall,
> huh?
Dicey area - lets say you figure out getting the hole in the wall -
you have to have two panels of glass set at non-perpendicular angles
and sealed airtight to have any effective results, and this is damn
expensive and time consuming to get right in my experience. I chicken
out and use a closed circut TV system instead.
>
> And regarding sound proofing, etc. I am not very handy and so can not
> do DIY accoustical treatment, unless it is very basic (i.e. attaching
> foam to walls, etc). How much would it cost for me to bring in a
> consultant and have some sufficient (i.e. not hard core, obsessive)
> accoustical treatment done (I will need someone in the Boston area).
> The most important thing to me is
>
> a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking
> into my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. Ok,
> so perhaps I won't be cranking the amps, but I definately want to make
> my amps work hard!
Again, seperate floors will help. Soundproofing that wall to stop that
kind of level will not be as hard as you think, you basically build
anaother wall a little further out from the current wall with a
specified air gap and rockwool and stuff. But that window could be a
killer
>
> b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
> components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc).
Now your talking bank loans. And a life dedicated to building and
maintaining a studio - thats a hell of a committment to "crank your
amps" - I live it everyday and it can be a battle
>
> c) having convenient cabling and communication between the two rooms
Sort this out before you start building new walls and stuff -
OVERCOMPENSATE! When I made my multicore I was sure 16 sends and 4
stereo returns would be HEAPS, but I am now running cables under the
door.
>
> Also, if anybody could help me with this project, that would be most
> appreciated. We move in on Sept 6 (Billerica, MA) and I want to hit
> the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
> seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
> price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).
I'm a studio hack in Australia. Seek out Ethan Winer. Best of luck my
friend!
Adam B
SNJ Studio
http://snjstudio.cjb.net

[Ben Bradley]

On 16 Jul 2004 00:02:55 -0700, (Brian Huether)
wrote:
>...

>the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
>seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
>price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).

In addition to following the other posters' instructions, get and
read F. Alto Everest's "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" 3rd. Ed. and
perhaps his other books as well.
To put a book's worth into a sentence, to keep a cranked up amp
from bothering the neighbors, you need to build an airtight room with
walls and ceiling made of several layers of sheetrock, and don't
forget ventilation...

>regards,
>
>brian
>www.guitar-dreams.com

[Me]

Thanks for the sound advice :)

I have some reading to do now...

regards,

brian
"Brian Huether" > wrote in message
om...
> I decided I am sick of having kick-ass guitar amps and not being able
> to crank them for fear of bothering neighbors. So my wife and I
> decided to buy a house. It has a basement with a finished 18x12 room,
> and a finished 10x10 room. They currently have ceramic tile though. So
> my questions are
>
> 1. Is it best to have carpeted floors?
> 2. Which room should be for monitoring, and which for my speaker cab?
> The bigger room for the cab, right?
> 3. Regarding the adjoining wall between rooms, how difficult would it
> be to rip a whole in it and install a panel of soundproof glass? Can I
> indeed do that, or would I need to tear down the whole wall and start
> from scratch? I suppose it would depend on what lays within the wall,
> huh?
>
> And regarding sound proofing, etc. I am not very handy and so can not
> do DIY accoustical treatment, unless it is very basic (i.e. attaching
> foam to walls, etc). How much would it cost for me to bring in a
> consultant and have some sufficient (i.e. not hard core, obsessive)
> accoustical treatment done (I will need someone in the Boston area).
> The most important thing to me is
>
> a) being able to crank a 120W tube amp and not have the sound leaking
> into my monitoring room and interfering with the monitored sound. Ok,
> so perhaps I won't be cranking the amps, but I definately want to make
> my amps work hard!
>
> b) having a good monitoring environment such that the other quality
> components are not compromised (mics, pres, etc).
>
> c) having convenient cabling and communication between the two rooms
>
> Also, if anybody could help me with this project, that would be most
> appreciated. We move in on Sept 6 (Billerica, MA) and I want to hit
> the ground running. I really need someone to guide me through this. It
> seems so overwheling to me right now! Of course I will pay a fair
> price (hopefully less than what a pro consultant would charge!).
>
> regards,
>
> brian
> www.guitar-dreams.com

[Darrell Klein]

Brian, I have a similar room in the basement of my house. The walls
are painted cinderblock (concrete block) on two sides and hardwood
paneling on the other two. The floor is concrete covered by linoleum.
I use the 22' x 14' x 8' room as a tracking room.

After two months, I tried an experiment and bought some
commercial-grade but thin (low pile) carpet. I put that down without a
pad underneath. It will wear out a lot faster, but I wanted a minimal
taming of the room's hard reflective quality and it ended up fine. If
I had it to do over, I would leave about half of the area (10' x 14')
without the carpet to have a variety of area-sounds to use. I'm just
too lazy to try rolling up half the carpet as I have managed to fill
the area with equipment.

I may have simply gotten lucky, but it made the sound better. On the
other hand, I haven't had any comercial releases out of my basement
studio (but have released commercials!)

[ScotFraser]

<< lets say you figure out getting the hole in the wall -
you have to have two panels of glass set at non-perpendicular angles
and sealed airtight to have any effective results, and this is damn
expensive and time consuming to get right in my experience. >>

It's actually very straight forward simple carpentry. I know you meant to say
non-parallel, not non-perpendicular, but that's not really a very crucial
consideration. Far more important is to use the thickest laminated glass you
can afford. Quarter inch minimum. Laminated gives you another couple or 3 db
attenuation in the mids/highs & is worth the extra expense. But the most
important factor in getting maximum STC with glass in a control room wall is
space. With a double wall & the right glass & construction techniques, you can
get effectively no sound coming through if you space the panes a foot apart at
least.

Scott Fraser

[Matt]

(Darrell Klein) wrote in message >...

Brian--Unless your mind-set on rec ording your cab with a lot of
genuine room noise, you can forget about spending all that cash on
sound isolation for the whole room and just build an isolation for the
cab. It basically involved building a floating box for the cab lined
with absorbtion with a whole or two for mic cables at the base and
enough room to be able to place your mics at a variety of distance
from the speakers. Just an idea, but it could save you a lotta cash
until you find a good direction to proceed.--MAtt



> Brian, I have a similar room in the basement of my house. The walls
> are painted cinderblock (concrete block) on two sides and hardwood
> paneling on the other two. The floor is concrete covered by linoleum.
> I use the 22' x 14' x 8' room as a tracking room.
>
> After two months, I tried an experiment and bought some
> commercial-grade but thin (low pile) carpet. I put that down without a
> pad underneath. It will wear out a lot faster, but I wanted a minimal
> taming of the room's hard reflective quality and it ended up fine. If
> I had it to do over, I would leave about half of the area (10' x 14')
> without the carpet to have a variety of area-sounds to use. I'm just
> too lazy to try rolling up half the carpet as I have managed to fill
> the area with equipment.
>
> I may have simply gotten lucky, but it made the sound better. On the
> other hand, I haven't had any comercial releases out of my basement
> studio (but have released commercials!)