Miking a bassguitar

[ThomasT]

Hi!

I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
I don't like the term "gothic metal"...

I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
mids.

If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
("slap").

Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...

Thomas

"ThomasT" > wrote in message
om...

> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas?

TLM-103 and/or RE-20. You can EQ some of the clicks out, but any decent mic
will pick those up... that's a tehnique thing, not a "mic thing".
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

"ThomasT" > wrote in message
om...

> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas?

TLM-103 and/or RE-20. You can EQ some of the clicks out, but any decent mic
will pick those up... that's a tehnique thing, not a "mic thing".
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

[Raymond]

>"ThomasT" > wrote in message
om...
>
>> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
>> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
>> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
>> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
>> ("slap").
>>
>> Any ideas?

Sounds like you have a room problem going on, the first part of a studio is a
well constructed room.

[Raymond]

>"ThomasT" > wrote in message
om...
>
>> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
>> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
>> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
>> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
>> ("slap").
>>
>> Any ideas?

Sounds like you have a room problem going on, the first part of a studio is a
well constructed room.

[Thomas Thiele]

Raymond wrote:

> Sounds like you have a room problem going on, the first part of a studio is a
> well constructed room.

The room is not ideal of course. But it isn't really a room problem.

First, I made a big mistake yesterday evening.
Most of the metallic highs are coming from the 8" speaker. And I only
miked the 12" below.
So I listen and played again.

Final positions and mic choice was (I have no RE-20...:-( )
D112 on the 12", a C451 on the 8". Both running into a Systek and then
into a Mindprint T-comp with 2:1 and 4:1 compression and then into the
RME Adi-8 and digitaly mixed together: and voila. Thats my bass sound.

[Thomas Thiele]

Raymond wrote:

> Sounds like you have a room problem going on, the first part of a studio is a
> well constructed room.

The room is not ideal of course. But it isn't really a room problem.

First, I made a big mistake yesterday evening.
Most of the metallic highs are coming from the 8" speaker. And I only
miked the 12" below.
So I listen and played again.

Final positions and mic choice was (I have no RE-20...:-( )
D112 on the 12", a C451 on the 8". Both running into a Systek and then
into a Mindprint T-comp with 2:1 and 4:1 compression and then into the
RME Adi-8 and digitaly mixed together: and voila. Thats my bass sound.

[Thomas Thiele]

And I forgot: playing with a thin soft plectrum instead of my normally
thick and hard ones.

[Thomas Thiele]

And I forgot: playing with a thin soft plectrum instead of my normally
thick and hard ones.

[ThePaulThomas]

(ThomasT) wrote in message >...
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
> I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
> Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
> I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
> I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
> Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
> But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
> mids.
>
> If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
> So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
> I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
> Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
> In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
> Thomas

FWIW, I was selling a C-451-EB on eBay about a year ago. One
potentaial buyer that was eager to use the Buy-It-Now feature emailed
me first and asked if I thought it would be a good mic for recording
his bass rig. As much as I wanted to unload that mic ASAP (needed
ca$h!) I instead pointed him towards another auction that was for a
Electro-Voice N/D-308. The guy selling the N/D-308 had a Buy-It-Now
price of fifty bucks. My prospective buyer was skeptical at first
because he'd heard that a condensor mic is _supposedly_ much better
than a dynamic mic for everything. But I guess he figured that if I
was not only turning down an easy $300 I was worth trusting. He bought
the EV N/D-308 and about a month later he told me he was _VERY_ happy
with how the mic sounded on his rig and he really appreciated saving
$250. Your mentioning that the condensors you tried left you
unimpressed reminded me of that story.
The point is, you've already taken the first step in the right
direction by asking others for input without ruling out anything right
away. Hopefully you'll get plenty of suggestions that you can
experiment with that are within your price range. That said, how much
are are you looking to spend and/or how many loaner or rental items do
you have access to in your town?

[ThePaulThomas]

(ThomasT) wrote in message >...
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
> I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
> Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
> I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
> I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
> Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
> But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
> mids.
>
> If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
> So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
> I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
> Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
> In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
> Thomas

FWIW, I was selling a C-451-EB on eBay about a year ago. One
potentaial buyer that was eager to use the Buy-It-Now feature emailed
me first and asked if I thought it would be a good mic for recording
his bass rig. As much as I wanted to unload that mic ASAP (needed
ca$h!) I instead pointed him towards another auction that was for a
Electro-Voice N/D-308. The guy selling the N/D-308 had a Buy-It-Now
price of fifty bucks. My prospective buyer was skeptical at first
because he'd heard that a condensor mic is _supposedly_ much better
than a dynamic mic for everything. But I guess he figured that if I
was not only turning down an easy $300 I was worth trusting. He bought
the EV N/D-308 and about a month later he told me he was _VERY_ happy
with how the mic sounded on his rig and he really appreciated saving
$250. Your mentioning that the condensors you tried left you
unimpressed reminded me of that story.
The point is, you've already taken the first step in the right
direction by asking others for input without ruling out anything right
away. Hopefully you'll get plenty of suggestions that you can
experiment with that are within your price range. That said, how much
are are you looking to spend and/or how many loaner or rental items do
you have access to in your town?

[Thomas Thiele]

> Electro-Voice N/D-308.

I've never heared that before. I even don't know someone here who owns
this.
But worth to try.

> a condensor mic is _supposedly_ much better
> than a dynamic mic for everything.
> Your mentioning that the condensors you tried left you
> unimpressed reminded me of that story.

The problem is that especially small diaph. cond. are build to be
neutral.
Most of them have little boost in the high-mids 6-10kHz but not more.

But most of the dynamik mics have a nonlinear frequnency curve.
The curve of all bassdrummiks Beta52, D112 etc. are far away from beeing
neutral.
They boost the lows, cuts the mids, boost the high-mids.
Thats whay the D112 sounded better than the neutral cond.

> The point is, you've already taken the first step in the right
> direction by asking others for input without ruling out anything right
> away. Hopefully you'll get plenty of suggestions that you can
> experiment with that are within your price range.

Not really as you can see.
I'm not a beginner, but I'm also not a real pro.
I'm trying a lot but I think its always a good idea to ask here. Mostly
someone get a tip that you never think of. "Try a N/D-308" was yours. We
will see.

[Thomas Thiele]

> Electro-Voice N/D-308.

I've never heared that before. I even don't know someone here who owns
this.
But worth to try.

> a condensor mic is _supposedly_ much better
> than a dynamic mic for everything.
> Your mentioning that the condensors you tried left you
> unimpressed reminded me of that story.

The problem is that especially small diaph. cond. are build to be
neutral.
Most of them have little boost in the high-mids 6-10kHz but not more.

But most of the dynamik mics have a nonlinear frequnency curve.
The curve of all bassdrummiks Beta52, D112 etc. are far away from beeing
neutral.
They boost the lows, cuts the mids, boost the high-mids.
Thats whay the D112 sounded better than the neutral cond.

> The point is, you've already taken the first step in the right
> direction by asking others for input without ruling out anything right
> away. Hopefully you'll get plenty of suggestions that you can
> experiment with that are within your price range.

Not really as you can see.
I'm not a beginner, but I'm also not a real pro.
I'm trying a lot but I think its always a good idea to ask here. Mostly
someone get a tip that you never think of. "Try a N/D-308" was yours. We
will see.

[Jacob Hansen]

(ThomasT) wrote in message >...
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
> I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
> Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
> I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
> I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
> Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
> But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
> mids.
>
> If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
> So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
> I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
> Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
> In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
> Thomas

Thomas,

Good that you already found something that works. I never mic the
large sized speakers, because the low-end is the easiest to get. I
always mic 10"s or 8"s. And I do it with some different combinations.
U87 is really working well for me, and of course RE-20, which is not
always working. A good large diaphragm mic will work wonders for a
full-tone metal bass. I mean, we want to hear the bass, rightm not
just the low-end.

I always use noth a DI and an amp. Sometimes the DI gets thrown away,
but it's good for re-amping. If I didn't get the bass sound I wanted
at first, I can always run it into a stack and start micing again.

For many albums I've used MESA dual Rectifier for bass combined with a
DI. That gives it a more guitar-like bass sound, which I think mixes
great for metal. I've also tried 2 different amps: an Ampeg rig that
was distorted heavily, a MESA Dual Rectifier that had a nice clean
tone, but no low-end and finally a DI. That sounded really great.

I run the mic and the line through Neumann V476 pres and EQ with
Neumann W495's. That sounds so great. I always use multiband
compression.

Good luck.

Jacob Hansen
Hansen Studios
www.jacobhansen.com

[Jacob Hansen]

(ThomasT) wrote in message >...
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
> I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
> Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
> I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
> I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
> Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
> But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
> mids.
>
> If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
> So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
> I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
> Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
> The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
> Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
> Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
> it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
> ("slap").
>
> Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
> In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
> Thomas

Thomas,

Good that you already found something that works. I never mic the
large sized speakers, because the low-end is the easiest to get. I
always mic 10"s or 8"s. And I do it with some different combinations.
U87 is really working well for me, and of course RE-20, which is not
always working. A good large diaphragm mic will work wonders for a
full-tone metal bass. I mean, we want to hear the bass, rightm not
just the low-end.

I always use noth a DI and an amp. Sometimes the DI gets thrown away,
but it's good for re-amping. If I didn't get the bass sound I wanted
at first, I can always run it into a stack and start micing again.

For many albums I've used MESA dual Rectifier for bass combined with a
DI. That gives it a more guitar-like bass sound, which I think mixes
great for metal. I've also tried 2 different amps: an Ampeg rig that
was distorted heavily, a MESA Dual Rectifier that had a nice clean
tone, but no low-end and finally a DI. That sounded really great.

I run the mic and the line through Neumann V476 pres and EQ with
Neumann W495's. That sounds so great. I always use multiband
compression.

Good luck.

Jacob Hansen
Hansen Studios
www.jacobhansen.com

[Thomas Thiele]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I also like a distorted bass sound. Not only in the Type-O-Negative way
but also when the bass is normally clean a slightly distorted bass. This
often sounds good.

But: sometime the bass playes alone together with some synthies. And
then a distorted bass sound too dirty (negativ) and not clear and
massive.

[Thomas Thiele]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I also like a distorted bass sound. Not only in the Type-O-Negative way
but also when the bass is normally clean a slightly distorted bass. This
often sounds good.

But: sometime the bass playes alone together with some synthies. And
then a distorted bass sound too dirty (negativ) and not clear and
massive.

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>Hi!
>
>I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
>I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
>Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
>I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
>I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
>Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
>But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
>mids.
>
>If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
>So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
>I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
>Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
>The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
>Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
>Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
>it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
>("slap").
>
>Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
>In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
>Thomas
>
>
>
>
>

Try a ribbon mic. It is amazing on Bass Guitar.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>Hi!
>
>I'm looking for some new ideas to record my bass guitar.
>I'll try to get a dirty but clean deep sound.
>Music is some kind of melodic death metal like older Paradise Lost.
>I don't like the term "gothic metal"...
>
>I use a warwick wamp400 with a 3x12"/1x8" cabinet.
>Alternatively I have a 6x12" tech cabinet with a trace elliot.
>But I prefere the clean sound of te warwick. The trace has to much
>mids.
>
>If I listen to one 12"-speaker 0.5m or less I hear the sound I want.
>So it should be able to catch it with a microfon.
>I tried a C451, a CAD E200 and a D112.
>Both condensors sounds boring. It would no difference to DI.
>The D112 sounds in the direction I want. But only the direction.
>Its not the metallic deep sound I hear in front of a speaker.
>Hard to decribe. A deep full sound (tuning down to B), your hear that
>it is a steel(nickel) string but there are no those "high-clicks"
>("slap").
>
>Any ideas? If not it's the D112 combined with the DI signal.
>In this case it's my own band and there other quality requirements...
>
>Thomas
>
>
>
>
>

Try a ribbon mic. It is amazing on Bass Guitar.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Dean]

This is probably heresy in this newsgroup, but I prefer to preamp to a
compressor and then direct line in. The sound is more consistant and
manipulatable.

You might try both at the same time, a line in and a mic on seperate
channels. maybe mix them both.
dB

[Dean]

This is probably heresy in this newsgroup, but I prefer to preamp to a
compressor and then direct line in. The sound is more consistant and
manipulatable.

You might try both at the same time, a line in and a mic on seperate
channels. maybe mix them both.
dB

[ThePaulThomas]

(Dean) wrote in message >...
> This is probably heresy...

No, not at all. If it gets the sound the musician/client is happy
with then it shouldn't be frowned upon. More power to ya'.

[ThePaulThomas]

(Dean) wrote in message >...
> This is probably heresy...

No, not at all. If it gets the sound the musician/client is happy
with then it shouldn't be frowned upon. More power to ya'.

[Thomas Thiele]

Dean wrote:

> You might try both at the same time, a line in and a mic on seperate
> channels. maybe mix them both.

I always record the direct bass signal when I use a mic.

[Thomas Thiele]

Dean wrote:

> You might try both at the same time, a line in and a mic on seperate
> channels. maybe mix them both.

I always record the direct bass signal when I use a mic.