EV 408 on Kick

[Cassandra Hemer]

Hi Everyone!

I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!

So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
great?

I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
you an idea of what level I'm at.

Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!

Cassie

[Garth]

In article >,
(Cassandra Hemer) writes:

>I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
>using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
>D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
>grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
>EV408 is great on kick..

Hmmm, I have a 408 but have never tried it on kick. I suspect the low end
wouldnt quite be there but who knows. For $139 you can get an Audio Technica
ATM 25. I have about 6 "kick" mics, D112, E 602, 868, D-6 etc and many times
the ATM 25 is the best of the bunch. I think its a huge bargain.
My "go to" kick mic is the Audix D-6. It seldom fails to please. I would
definitely suggest it instead of the D112.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Garth]

In article >,
(Cassandra Hemer) writes:

>I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
>using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
>D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
>grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
>EV408 is great on kick..

Hmmm, I have a 408 but have never tried it on kick. I suspect the low end
wouldnt quite be there but who knows. For $139 you can get an Audio Technica
ATM 25. I have about 6 "kick" mics, D112, E 602, 868, D-6 etc and many times
the ATM 25 is the best of the bunch. I think its a huge bargain.
My "go to" kick mic is the Audix D-6. It seldom fails to please. I would
definitely suggest it instead of the D112.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Scott Dorsey]

Cassandra Hemer > wrote:
>
>So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
>nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
>thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
>great?

It's discontinued and has been replaced with the 468. The two 408 mikes
and the 468 all sound pretty much the same and any one of them will be
fine.

>I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
>I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
>studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
>I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
>you an idea of what level I'm at.

The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.

The N/D 408 and 468 are really handy mikes for all kinds of things. If you
decide you don't like it on kick, you can use it on snares or toms, on
acoustic or electric guitar, and even on vocals. It's a hell of a useful
mike and not very expensive. The 408s show up used all the time for cheap,
too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Cassandra Hemer > wrote:
>
>So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
>nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
>thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
>great?

It's discontinued and has been replaced with the 468. The two 408 mikes
and the 468 all sound pretty much the same and any one of them will be
fine.

>I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
>I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
>studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
>I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
>you an idea of what level I'm at.

The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.

The N/D 408 and 468 are really handy mikes for all kinds of things. If you
decide you don't like it on kick, you can use it on snares or toms, on
acoustic or electric guitar, and even on vocals. It's a hell of a useful
mike and not very expensive. The 408s show up used all the time for cheap,
too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
> D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
> grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
> EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
> thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
> guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!

Mics, with only a few exceptions, aren't dedicated vocal, guitar, tom,
kick, brass, etc. devices. There have been some preferences and first
choices among people who have a full closet of mics, and those choices
have made their way into popular culture. This is where we get, for
example, what a studio vocal microphone is supposed to look like
(large diaphragm condenser).

I've never used a 408 on kick in the studio (because I don't have one)
but I've used it on stage in PA applications and it works just fine.
Its small size and extra degree of freedom (it has a yoke so it's
tiltable without the cable getting in the way) makes it easy to place
it on the front head, inside the drum, or even on the beater side.

The mic has a fairly tight cardioid pattern and reasonably smooth off
axis frequency response, so while it doesn't exaggerate certain
frequencies (as some designed-for-the-purpose kick drum mics do) it's
easy to get a good sound, particularly in the "demo for friends" kind
of projects where you don't want to spend a lot of time setting up.

It's also quite good on electric guitars and horns, and not bad on
fiddle, even acceptable on acoustic guitar.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
> D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
> grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
> EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
> thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
> guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!

Mics, with only a few exceptions, aren't dedicated vocal, guitar, tom,
kick, brass, etc. devices. There have been some preferences and first
choices among people who have a full closet of mics, and those choices
have made their way into popular culture. This is where we get, for
example, what a studio vocal microphone is supposed to look like
(large diaphragm condenser).

I've never used a 408 on kick in the studio (because I don't have one)
but I've used it on stage in PA applications and it works just fine.
Its small size and extra degree of freedom (it has a yoke so it's
tiltable without the cable getting in the way) makes it easy to place
it on the front head, inside the drum, or even on the beater side.

The mic has a fairly tight cardioid pattern and reasonably smooth off
axis frequency response, so while it doesn't exaggerate certain
frequencies (as some designed-for-the-purpose kick drum mics do) it's
easy to get a good sound, particularly in the "demo for friends" kind
of projects where you don't want to spend a lot of time setting up.

It's also quite good on electric guitars and horns, and not bad on
fiddle, even acceptable on acoustic guitar.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[ThePaulThomas]

(Cassandra Hemer) wrote in message >...
> ...I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
> I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!)...
> Cassie

Cassie,
I'm not a pro, but I'll add my 2 cents worth regardless of that
fact...
How much are they asking for the N/D-408? They frequently turn up on
eBay for anywhere from $60-$100 and Prepal says they average about
$100. Well worth it. It is indeed a versatile mic. There's really no
such thing as a "drum" or "tom" mic. I imagine it was marketed by EV
as such because it was designed to have a very tight polar pattern
(Supercardioid), thus preventing a lot of leakage of sound from nearby
instruments (like other drums). Also, it's good for drums due to its
small size and ease of positioning in tight spaces (between drums,
below cymbals, etc.). A sennheiser 421 is another popular and awesome
all-purpose mic that is commonly thought of as a "drum mic" by many
but you need a _lot_ of room to position them. The 408's tight pattern
can also be useful in live sound situations for preventing leakage
that results in feedback.
The other model being made at the same time as the 408 was the
N/D-308. Similar size and shape but a cardiod pattern so it picked up
more sound from the sides. Sounds damn good on a lot of bass amp
cabinets. As for the difference between "A" and "B" models, don't
quote me on this, but I think it was based on the length of the body.
I've seen 308's and 408's with a very short handle/body that is no
longer than the clip, and I've seen models that were an inch or two
longer than the clip. Same diameter and same clip, just a slightly
longer body for some reason. I never bothered to check for the letters
to see if that accounted for anything. Somebody else here on r.a.p.
will probably know (Scott?). The 408 was discontinued at some point
and EV later revived/reissued it with the 468.
This is a neat site that actually has some spec's for the 308, 408,
and many others now discontinued:
http://members.aol.com/mihartkopf/frameset.htm
If it's under $100 and it won't break your bank, buy it. I sincerely
doubt you'll have any regrets. Now, have fun recording! :)

[ThePaulThomas]

(Cassandra Hemer) wrote in message >...
> ...I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
> I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!)...
> Cassie

Cassie,
I'm not a pro, but I'll add my 2 cents worth regardless of that
fact...
How much are they asking for the N/D-408? They frequently turn up on
eBay for anywhere from $60-$100 and Prepal says they average about
$100. Well worth it. It is indeed a versatile mic. There's really no
such thing as a "drum" or "tom" mic. I imagine it was marketed by EV
as such because it was designed to have a very tight polar pattern
(Supercardioid), thus preventing a lot of leakage of sound from nearby
instruments (like other drums). Also, it's good for drums due to its
small size and ease of positioning in tight spaces (between drums,
below cymbals, etc.). A sennheiser 421 is another popular and awesome
all-purpose mic that is commonly thought of as a "drum mic" by many
but you need a _lot_ of room to position them. The 408's tight pattern
can also be useful in live sound situations for preventing leakage
that results in feedback.
The other model being made at the same time as the 408 was the
N/D-308. Similar size and shape but a cardiod pattern so it picked up
more sound from the sides. Sounds damn good on a lot of bass amp
cabinets. As for the difference between "A" and "B" models, don't
quote me on this, but I think it was based on the length of the body.
I've seen 308's and 408's with a very short handle/body that is no
longer than the clip, and I've seen models that were an inch or two
longer than the clip. Same diameter and same clip, just a slightly
longer body for some reason. I never bothered to check for the letters
to see if that accounted for anything. Somebody else here on r.a.p.
will probably know (Scott?). The 408 was discontinued at some point
and EV later revived/reissued it with the 468.
This is a neat site that actually has some spec's for the 308, 408,
and many others now discontinued:
http://members.aol.com/mihartkopf/frameset.htm
If it's under $100 and it won't break your bank, buy it. I sincerely
doubt you'll have any regrets. Now, have fun recording! :)

[Druhms]

I'm not 100%, but I think the "a" and "b" are used to designate what sort of
place it was distributed to. I think EV designated "b" for most stores, but
if you bought a hundred or so, then the "a" was used to designate it's
discounted price.
jj
www.BoogieTracks.com

[Druhms]

I'm not 100%, but I think the "a" and "b" are used to designate what sort of
place it was distributed to. I think EV designated "b" for most stores, but
if you bought a hundred or so, then the "a" was used to designate it's
discounted price.
jj
www.BoogieTracks.com

[ThePaulThomas]

(Druhms) wrote in message >...
> I'm not 100%, but I think the "a" and "b" are used to designate what sort of
> place it was distributed to. I think EV designated "b" for most stores, but
> if you bought a hundred or so, then the "a" was used to designate it's
> discounted price.
> jj
> www.BoogieTracks.com

Hmmm. Could be.
FWIW, I pulled out my pair of 408's and 308's as well. Both of my
408's have N/D 408 printed on the body, but no "A" _or_ "B"
designation. One of my 308's is labelled N/D 308 and the body is 1
1/4" long. The other is a N/D 308"B" and the body is 2" long. They
both have the same diameter body and will fit the stock clips, but
even the "B" version isn't long enough to work with an EV 313A
shockmount so I really don't know what necessitated the additional
3/4" added to the "B" body. Strange...

[ThePaulThomas]

(Druhms) wrote in message >...
> I'm not 100%, but I think the "a" and "b" are used to designate what sort of
> place it was distributed to. I think EV designated "b" for most stores, but
> if you bought a hundred or so, then the "a" was used to designate it's
> discounted price.
> jj
> www.BoogieTracks.com

Hmmm. Could be.
FWIW, I pulled out my pair of 408's and 308's as well. Both of my
408's have N/D 408 printed on the body, but no "A" _or_ "B"
designation. One of my 308's is labelled N/D 308 and the body is 1
1/4" long. The other is a N/D 308"B" and the body is 2" long. They
both have the same diameter body and will fit the stock clips, but
even the "B" version isn't long enough to work with an EV 313A
shockmount so I really don't know what necessitated the additional
3/4" added to the "B" body. Strange...

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>Hi Everyone!
>
>I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
>using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
>D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
>grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
>EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
>thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
>guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!
>
>So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
>nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
>thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
>great?
>
>I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
>I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
>studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
>I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
>you an idea of what level I'm at.
>
>Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!
>
>Cassie
>
>

I 've used them for kick mic's in live situations and they work very well in
this aspect.

I just never bothered trying one in the studio because I usually use either the
RE20, 421, or d12. instead.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>Hi Everyone!
>
>I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
>using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
>D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
>grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
>EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
>thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
>guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!
>
>So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
>nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
>thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
>great?
>
>I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
>I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
>studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
>I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
>you an idea of what level I'm at.
>
>Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!
>
>Cassie
>
>

I 've used them for kick mic's in live situations and they work very well in
this aspect.

I just never bothered trying one in the studio because I usually use either the
RE20, 421, or d12. instead.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Tim Padrick]

Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
less gating than a B52.

"Richard Kuschel" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Hi Everyone!
> >
> >I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
> >using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
> >D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
> >grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
> >EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
> >thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
> >guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!
> >
> >So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
> >nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
> >thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
> >great?
> >
> >I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
> >I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
> >studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
> >I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
> >you an idea of what level I'm at.
> >
> >Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!
> >
> >Cassie
> >
> >
>
> I 've used them for kick mic's in live situations and they work very well
in
> this aspect.
>
> I just never bothered trying one in the studio because I usually use
either the
> RE20, 421, or d12. instead.
> Richard H. Kuschel
> "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Tim Padrick]

Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
less gating than a B52.

"Richard Kuschel" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Hi Everyone!
> >
> >I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
> >using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
> >D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
> >grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
> >EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
> >thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
> >guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!
> >
> >So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
> >nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
> >thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
> >great?
> >
> >I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
> >I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
> >studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
> >I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
> >you an idea of what level I'm at.
> >
> >Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!
> >
> >Cassie
> >
> >
>
> I 've used them for kick mic's in live situations and they work very well
in
> this aspect.
>
> I just never bothered trying one in the studio because I usually use
either the
> RE20, 421, or d12. instead.
> Richard H. Kuschel
> "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Blind Joni]

>
>Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>less gating than a B52.

This is also true of D2's and D4's on toms..pick up less crap than most other
mics.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

>
>Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>less gating than a B52.

This is also true of D2's and D4's on toms..pick up less crap than most other
mics.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[hank alrich]

Tim Padrick wrote:

> Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
> less gating than a B52.

I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.

--
ha

[hank alrich]

Tim Padrick wrote:

> Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
> less gating than a B52.

I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.

--
ha

[Blind Joni]

>> Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>> less gating than a B52.
>
>I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.

For live shows..I think he meant.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

>> Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>> less gating than a B52.
>
>I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.

For live shows..I think he meant.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[ScotFraser]

<< >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>

<For live shows..I think he meant.
>>

Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>

<For live shows..I think he meant.
>>

Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?

Scott Fraser

[Blind Joni]

><< >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>
>
><For live shows..I think he meant.
> >>
>
>Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?
>

I knew someone would jump on that!!
Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the kick
is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. Hardcore shows require a
gated kick...a lot of small clubs where the drums are in a room against the
wall or in a corner...the kick gate can be what is needed.
I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>
When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

><< >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>
>
><For live shows..I think he meant.
> >>
>
>Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?
>

I knew someone would jump on that!!
Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the kick
is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. Hardcore shows require a
gated kick...a lot of small clubs where the drums are in a room against the
wall or in a corner...the kick gate can be what is needed.
I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>
When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[ScotFraser]

<< When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.
>>

In my experience when fighting stage volume a gate is just more prone to
mistrigger. Then again, I like leakage, except in my plumbing.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.
>>

In my experience when fighting stage volume a gate is just more prone to
mistrigger. Then again, I like leakage, except in my plumbing.


Scott Fraser

[MandoBazaaro]

I really love the EV RE38 on kick...
The mic kinda reminds me visually of a 408 on steriods...

Great mic for a lot of other applications, too...

[MandoBazaaro]

I really love the EV RE38 on kick...
The mic kinda reminds me visually of a 408 on steriods...

Great mic for a lot of other applications, too...

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the kick
> is what is needed to get it where it needs to be.

And sometimes a kick to the drummer is needed to get stage volume
(down) to where it needs to be.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the kick
> is what is needed to get it where it needs to be.

And sometimes a kick to the drummer is needed to get stage volume
(down) to where it needs to be.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[ScotFraser]

<< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
kick
is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>

And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?

<<Hardcore shows require a
gated kick...>>

This explains why most hardcore sucks. They forgot to gate the kick.

<<I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>>>

Some do, although I don't. When I'm the house monkey at Royce Hall I run into
lots of guys who demand 8 to 12 gates, then either don't get around to
inserting them, or when they do, end up either with gates open all the time
anyway, or lots of missed beats, because levels have changed radically from
sound check to show, (what a surprise, no one thought of that.)
Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
kick
is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>

And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?

<<Hardcore shows require a
gated kick...>>

This explains why most hardcore sucks. They forgot to gate the kick.

<<I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>>>

Some do, although I don't. When I'm the house monkey at Royce Hall I run into
lots of guys who demand 8 to 12 gates, then either don't get around to
inserting them, or when they do, end up either with gates open all the time
anyway, or lots of missed beats, because levels have changed radically from
sound check to show, (what a surprise, no one thought of that.)
Scott Fraser

[Garth]

In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> writes:

>Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>less gating than a B52.

Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the kick.
For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Garth]

In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> writes:

>Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
>less gating than a B52.

Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the kick.
For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Blind Joni]

><< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
>kick
>is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>
>
>And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?
>
><<Hardcore shows require a
>gated kick...>>
>
>This explains why most hardcore sucks. They forgot to gate the kick.

Let's not get stupid guys. If you can't realize a situation where a gate is
appropriate..I'll fill you in.I did a live show last night...dance band..some
70's disco..rock. Small room..band against the wall. PA needs to move people. 2
small EV 180 type subs ..together on one side..and 2 small JBL M-Pro 12/1" mid
highs. Kick gets gated so I can get it loud enough in the mix to do just
that...move people. I CAN'T..retune the drums, change everyones position, treat
the room, personally adjust everyone's volume, potty train the bartenders..etc.
I had a line check and go..there was a happy hour performer on before the band
could even set up. I don't always use a kick gate but often I do. I also used
an SPL Transient Designer. And I can't do a 5 show gig and tell all the bands
they suck. If I had a quiet band that I worked with on all the above mentioned
items I might not gate the kick. I would never berate a live sound person
because they gated the kick.. or any other practice that worked in context. I
would listen to the mix. BTW...last night's gig sounded inspiringly good...to
all in attendance and the owners. Kick was tight and punchy and blended great
with the bass...instruments were present and full..vocals were well placed and
smooth. I had an RNC on the vocal sub and the mains running through an Aphex
Compellor and Dominator 2. ..with a 14 channel Mackie board and a 15 band Rane
EQ. I never walk into gigs where the band and system are that balanced so I
thought I did a competant job. YMMV


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

><< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
>kick
>is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>
>
>And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?
>
><<Hardcore shows require a
>gated kick...>>
>
>This explains why most hardcore sucks. They forgot to gate the kick.

Let's not get stupid guys. If you can't realize a situation where a gate is
appropriate..I'll fill you in.I did a live show last night...dance band..some
70's disco..rock. Small room..band against the wall. PA needs to move people. 2
small EV 180 type subs ..together on one side..and 2 small JBL M-Pro 12/1" mid
highs. Kick gets gated so I can get it loud enough in the mix to do just
that...move people. I CAN'T..retune the drums, change everyones position, treat
the room, personally adjust everyone's volume, potty train the bartenders..etc.
I had a line check and go..there was a happy hour performer on before the band
could even set up. I don't always use a kick gate but often I do. I also used
an SPL Transient Designer. And I can't do a 5 show gig and tell all the bands
they suck. If I had a quiet band that I worked with on all the above mentioned
items I might not gate the kick. I would never berate a live sound person
because they gated the kick.. or any other practice that worked in context. I
would listen to the mix. BTW...last night's gig sounded inspiringly good...to
all in attendance and the owners. Kick was tight and punchy and blended great
with the bass...instruments were present and full..vocals were well placed and
smooth. I had an RNC on the vocal sub and the mains running through an Aphex
Compellor and Dominator 2. ..with a 14 channel Mackie board and a 15 band Rane
EQ. I never walk into gigs where the band and system are that balanced so I
thought I did a competant job. YMMV


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

><< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
>kick
>is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>
>
>And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?
>

Sure ..but in the studio I don't have a pounding bass amp 3 feet away blowing
into the drum mics... and I am recording not mixing.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

><< Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
>kick
>is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. >>
>
>And this doesn't hold true in a studio setting?
>

Sure ..but in the studio I don't have a pounding bass amp 3 feet away blowing
into the drum mics... and I am recording not mixing.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[ScotFraser]

<< Sure ..but in the studio I don't have a pounding bass amp 3 feet away
blowing
into the drum mics... and I am recording not mixing. >>

Sure. I'm merely questioning your statement that gates may have more
applications in live settings than studio settings. I question this because in
my experience the cacophony in live rock settings makes gate threshold control
enormously less precise & controllable than in a studio setting, thus LESS
appropriate. Anyway, I work with jazz drummers, for which the application of
gates is 100% inappropriate.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Sure ..but in the studio I don't have a pounding bass amp 3 feet away
blowing
into the drum mics... and I am recording not mixing. >>

Sure. I'm merely questioning your statement that gates may have more
applications in live settings than studio settings. I question this because in
my experience the cacophony in live rock settings makes gate threshold control
enormously less precise & controllable than in a studio setting, thus LESS
appropriate. Anyway, I work with jazz drummers, for which the application of
gates is 100% inappropriate.


Scott Fraser

[Blind Joni]

>Sure. I'm merely questioning your statement that gates may have more
>applications in live settings than studio settings. I question this because
>in
>my experience the cacophony in live rock settings makes gate threshold
>control
>enormously less precise & controllable than in a studio setting, thus LESS
>appropriate. Anyway, I work with jazz drummers, for which the application of
>gates is 100% inappropriate.
>

I get you Scott. Frequency sensitive gates work pretty well live. For a kick I
actuall am using an old German Behringer Autocom with a simple one knob
expander thing...kind of lazy but works without any clicking.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

>Sure. I'm merely questioning your statement that gates may have more
>applications in live settings than studio settings. I question this because
>in
>my experience the cacophony in live rock settings makes gate threshold
>control
>enormously less precise & controllable than in a studio setting, thus LESS
>appropriate. Anyway, I work with jazz drummers, for which the application of
>gates is 100% inappropriate.
>

I get you Scott. Frequency sensitive gates work pretty well live. For a kick I
actuall am using an old German Behringer Autocom with a simple one knob
expander thing...kind of lazy but works without any clicking.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Tim Padrick]

I've run across very few kicks that were not too ringy to get that "tight
rock punch" at any volume without being gated. Perhaps other here get to
work with drummers who know how to tune the things. Even when I get one
that works without a gate, the bass amp blasting away often makes a gate
desirable if not downright necessary.

"Garth" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> > writes:
>
> >Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
> >less gating than a B52.
>
> Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the
kick.
> For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
> something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.
>
> Garth~
>
>
> "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> Ed Cherney

[Tim Padrick]

I've run across very few kicks that were not too ringy to get that "tight
rock punch" at any volume without being gated. Perhaps other here get to
work with drummers who know how to tune the things. Even when I get one
that works without a gate, the bass amp blasting away often makes a gate
desirable if not downright necessary.

"Garth" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> > writes:
>
> >Try an Audix D6. Much better sound than the EV and AKG, requires a lot
> >less gating than a B52.
>
> Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the
kick.
> For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
> something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.
>
> Garth~
>
>
> "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> Ed Cherney

[Garth]

In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> writes:

>I've run across very few kicks that were not too ringy to get that "tight
>rock punch" at any volume without being gated. Perhaps other here get to
>work with drummers who know how to tune the things. Even when I get one
>that works without a gate, the bass amp blasting away often makes a gate
>desirable if not downright necessary.

Are you talking about a live performance or studio?

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Garth]

In article >, "Tim Padrick"
> writes:

>I've run across very few kicks that were not too ringy to get that "tight
>rock punch" at any volume without being gated. Perhaps other here get to
>work with drummers who know how to tune the things. Even when I get one
>that works without a gate, the bass amp blasting away often makes a gate
>desirable if not downright necessary.

Are you talking about a live performance or studio?

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[ScotFraser]

<< Let's not get stupid guys. If you can't realize a situation where a gate is
appropriate..I'll fill you in.I did a live show last night...dance band..some
70's disco..rock. Small room..band against the wall. PA needs to move people. 2
small EV 180 type subs ..together on one side..and 2 small JBL M-Pro 12/1" mid
highs. Kick gets gated so I can get it loud enough in the mix to do just
that...move people. >>

So short release time on kick equals people movement? OK, I'll take your word
for it. Pretty far out of my stylistic medium.

<< I would never berate a live sound person
because they gated the kick.. or any other practice that worked in context.>>

Nor would I, although I berate a mix wherein the engineer made the venue rent a
dozen gates (& not just any gates, they HAVE to be BSS) & then either doesn't
use them, or sets them so they're open for the whole show, or closed for some
drum hits. Seen it way WAY too often. BTW, does anybody have any idea why so
many mixers seem to feel that the appropriate drum sound for Brazilian &
African world/pop music is to recreate Bonham's thunderous approach?

<<I
would listen to the mix. >>

I would listen to the mix also, in case you think I don't.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Let's not get stupid guys. If you can't realize a situation where a gate is
appropriate..I'll fill you in.I did a live show last night...dance band..some
70's disco..rock. Small room..band against the wall. PA needs to move people. 2
small EV 180 type subs ..together on one side..and 2 small JBL M-Pro 12/1" mid
highs. Kick gets gated so I can get it loud enough in the mix to do just
that...move people. >>

So short release time on kick equals people movement? OK, I'll take your word
for it. Pretty far out of my stylistic medium.

<< I would never berate a live sound person
because they gated the kick.. or any other practice that worked in context.>>

Nor would I, although I berate a mix wherein the engineer made the venue rent a
dozen gates (& not just any gates, they HAVE to be BSS) & then either doesn't
use them, or sets them so they're open for the whole show, or closed for some
drum hits. Seen it way WAY too often. BTW, does anybody have any idea why so
many mixers seem to feel that the appropriate drum sound for Brazilian &
African world/pop music is to recreate Bonham's thunderous approach?

<<I
would listen to the mix. >>

I would listen to the mix also, in case you think I don't.


Scott Fraser

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the kick.
> For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
> something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.

Or the bass player's hearing.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Of all the drums, the one least requiring a gate (IMO) is certainly the kick.
> For there to be a significant problem from leakage in the kick mic there
> something must be very wrong with the drummer, the drums or the room.

Or the bass player's hearing.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Ty Ford]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:05:29 -0400, Blind Joni wrote
(in message >):

>> << >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>
>>
>> <For live shows..I think he meant.
>>>>
>>
>> Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?
>>
>
> I knew someone would jump on that!!
> Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
> kick
> is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. Hardcore shows require a
> gated kick...a lot of small clubs where the drums are in a room against the
> wall or in a corner...the kick gate can be what is needed.
> I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>
> When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.
>
>
> John A. Chiara
> SOS Recording Studio
> Live Sound Inc.
> Albany, NY
> www.sosrecording.net
> 518-449-1637

Persactly! And stop picking on John you guys!

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Ty Ford]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:05:29 -0400, Blind Joni wrote
(in message >):

>> << >I am amused by your idea that a mic on a kick drum _requires_ gating.>
>>
>> <For live shows..I think he meant.
>>>>
>>
>> Live, studio ... the difference that requires a gate being what?
>>
>
> I knew someone would jump on that!!
> Difference being..depending on style, venue..etc..sometimes a gate on the
> kick
> is what is needed to get it where it needs to be. Hardcore shows require a
> gated kick...a lot of small clubs where the drums are in a room against the
> wall or in a corner...the kick gate can be what is needed.
> I'm sure no national touring live sound mixers use gates on kick. <g>
> When you are fighting stage volume ..usually a gate helps.
>
>
> John A. Chiara
> SOS Recording Studio
> Live Sound Inc.
> Albany, NY
> www.sosrecording.net
> 518-449-1637

Persactly! And stop picking on John you guys!

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Blind Joni]

>Persactly! And stop picking on John you guys!
>
>Regards,
>
>Ty Ford
>
>

Thank you!!! I don't mind. I realize there are some here who do both live and
studio work..as I do..but the ones who haven't can learn a lot from our
bantering. And I love to hear how different styles of music have different
"normal" requirements that I may not be aware of. The bigger problem is on the
live audio boards where most mixers have little or no studio experience and
will argue to the death that it wouldn't help them if they did. I find doing
both very rewarding and enlightening. For instance ..this past Fri. night I got
the whole night to adjust and observe the effects of the Aphex
Compellor/Dominator combo on a live mix. I have become more astute at detecting
differences that plug in multiband comps/limiters and other compression plugins
make in my recording work and this knowledge translates directly to a live
situation. Someone without the recording end may never know that these tools
exist..let alone understand how to use them.



John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Blind Joni]

>Persactly! And stop picking on John you guys!
>
>Regards,
>
>Ty Ford
>
>

Thank you!!! I don't mind. I realize there are some here who do both live and
studio work..as I do..but the ones who haven't can learn a lot from our
bantering. And I love to hear how different styles of music have different
"normal" requirements that I may not be aware of. The bigger problem is on the
live audio boards where most mixers have little or no studio experience and
will argue to the death that it wouldn't help them if they did. I find doing
both very rewarding and enlightening. For instance ..this past Fri. night I got
the whole night to adjust and observe the effects of the Aphex
Compellor/Dominator combo on a live mix. I have become more astute at detecting
differences that plug in multiband comps/limiters and other compression plugins
make in my recording work and this knowledge translates directly to a live
situation. Someone without the recording end may never know that these tools
exist..let alone understand how to use them.



John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[ScotFraser]

<< And stop picking on John you guys!>>

Not picking, just discussing. Don't worry, these are just stage props, not
actual weapons & no animals are being injured in the posting of this thread.

<< I realize there are some here who do both live and
studio work.>>

I see no real distinction between the two. Each arena informs & reinforces the
other.

<<The bigger problem is on the
live audio boards where most mixers have little or no studio experience and
will argue to the death that it wouldn't help them if they did.>>

Those guys are just dead wrong.

<<Someone without the recording end may never know that these tools
exist..let alone understand how to use them.>>

And conversely, I find a lot of studio only guys have no idea what real
ambience sounds like, have no idea how instruments work in real acoustic space,
& tend to make recordings that are spatially & dimensionally irrational &
inept.





Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< And stop picking on John you guys!>>

Not picking, just discussing. Don't worry, these are just stage props, not
actual weapons & no animals are being injured in the posting of this thread.

<< I realize there are some here who do both live and
studio work.>>

I see no real distinction between the two. Each arena informs & reinforces the
other.

<<The bigger problem is on the
live audio boards where most mixers have little or no studio experience and
will argue to the death that it wouldn't help them if they did.>>

Those guys are just dead wrong.

<<Someone without the recording end may never know that these tools
exist..let alone understand how to use them.>>

And conversely, I find a lot of studio only guys have no idea what real
ambience sounds like, have no idea how instruments work in real acoustic space,
& tend to make recordings that are spatially & dimensionally irrational &
inept.





Scott Fraser

[Paul Carmen]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
> do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.

When I bought my D112 I told my bandmates: "Even if I would sing
into this thingy it would still sound like a good bassdrum."

After several years of using it, I am still happy with it.
I wouldn't say it has only one sound to offer.
It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
category because it does give you the low range you need to
make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. And it gives it
without distortion no matter how hard you beat the bassdrum.

If you compare it with the high-end Neumann or whatsoever
studio stuff: I believe that they do that either and are
perhaps more flexible, but I couldn't afford one up to now :-(

PC

[Paul Carmen]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
> do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.

When I bought my D112 I told my bandmates: "Even if I would sing
into this thingy it would still sound like a good bassdrum."

After several years of using it, I am still happy with it.
I wouldn't say it has only one sound to offer.
It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
category because it does give you the low range you need to
make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. And it gives it
without distortion no matter how hard you beat the bassdrum.

If you compare it with the high-end Neumann or whatsoever
studio stuff: I believe that they do that either and are
perhaps more flexible, but I couldn't afford one up to now :-(

PC

[Tony Muler]

Mike Rivers wrote:


> I've never used a 408 on kick in the studio (because I don't have one)
> but I've used it on stage in PA applications and it works just fine.
> Its small size and extra degree of freedom (it has a yoke so it's
> tiltable without the cable getting in the way) makes it easy to place
> it on the front head, inside the drum, or even on the beater side.

.... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
from the beater side while all other drums most often have
the microphone at the top head.

So you did. And? Does it make a lot of difference?
Is it possible to describe it?

Toney

[Tony Muler]

Mike Rivers wrote:


> I've never used a 408 on kick in the studio (because I don't have one)
> but I've used it on stage in PA applications and it works just fine.
> Its small size and extra degree of freedom (it has a yoke so it's
> tiltable without the cable getting in the way) makes it easy to place
> it on the front head, inside the drum, or even on the beater side.

.... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
from the beater side while all other drums most often have
the microphone at the top head.

So you did. And? Does it make a lot of difference?
Is it possible to describe it?

Toney

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Paul Carmen > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
>> do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.
>
>When I bought my D112 I told my bandmates: "Even if I would sing
>into this thingy it would still sound like a good bassdrum."
>
>After several years of using it, I am still happy with it.
>I wouldn't say it has only one sound to offer.
>It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
>category because it does give you the low range you need to
>make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. And it gives it
>without distortion no matter how hard you beat the bassdrum.

But the distortion is the whole point of the bass drum sound! Without it,
you just get a dull whoomp with no definition. Compare the D112 with the
RE-20 or 421L, neither of which are all that expensive. They all sound
different although I think you'll find the 421 and RE-20 a good bit more
versatile (and they can be used on vocals too, and have them sound like vocals).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >, Paul Carmen > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> The D112 gives you one sound, and there's really not anything else you can
>> do with it. You may like it or not, but it's not very versatile.
>
>When I bought my D112 I told my bandmates: "Even if I would sing
>into this thingy it would still sound like a good bassdrum."
>
>After several years of using it, I am still happy with it.
>I wouldn't say it has only one sound to offer.
>It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
>category because it does give you the low range you need to
>make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. And it gives it
>without distortion no matter how hard you beat the bassdrum.

But the distortion is the whole point of the bass drum sound! Without it,
you just get a dull whoomp with no definition. Compare the D112 with the
RE-20 or 421L, neither of which are all that expensive. They all sound
different although I think you'll find the 421 and RE-20 a good bit more
versatile (and they can be used on vocals too, and have them sound like vocals).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[ScotFraser]

<< It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
category because it does give you the low range you need to
make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. >>

One band I work with a lot utilizes a big Bulgarian marching bass drum with
goatskin heads. The drummer used to clip a D112 to the rim & was moderately
happy until we started recording. I used a KM140 backed off about a foot & it
resulted in an enormous increase in low bass response compared to the D112. The
AKG sounds indistinct & muffled comparatively.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< It sounds different from all other microphones in this price
category because it does give you the low range you need to
make a bass drum sound like a bass drum. >>

One band I work with a lot utilizes a big Bulgarian marching bass drum with
goatskin heads. The drummer used to clip a D112 to the rim & was moderately
happy until we started recording. I used a KM140 backed off about a foot & it
resulted in an enormous increase in low bass response compared to the D112. The
AKG sounds indistinct & muffled comparatively.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< ... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
from the beater side while all other drums most often have
the microphone at the top head. >>

Nobody? I did this 25 years ago with a metal trio (long before it was called
metal) that used a huge marching bass drum (28" or bigger) with both heads. A
421 or RE20 on the front head got the whoomph, & a 565 or 57 right next to the
beater got a lot of attack. It also gets a large amount of snare bottom, which
is good or bad depending on the player & the snare drum.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< ... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
from the beater side while all other drums most often have
the microphone at the top head. >>

Nobody? I did this 25 years ago with a metal trio (long before it was called
metal) that used a huge marching bass drum (28" or bigger) with both heads. A
421 or RE20 on the front head got the whoomph, & a 565 or 57 right next to the
beater got a lot of attack. It also gets a large amount of snare bottom, which
is good or bad depending on the player & the snare drum.

Scott Fraser

[Garth]

><< ... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
>from the beater side while all other drums most often have
>the microphone at the top head. >>

One reason I rarely mic the drum in that way is the pedal's mechanical noise.
Then there's the leakage from the snare.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Garth]

><< ... wondering why more or less nobody is micing the bassdrum
>from the beater side while all other drums most often have
>the microphone at the top head. >>

One reason I rarely mic the drum in that way is the pedal's mechanical noise.
Then there's the leakage from the snare.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Gary Koliger]

It just so happens that I have two 408s used oinly in a N/S pro facility
for sale and being the rank opportunist I am do here inform the price to
be $125 ea. or $225 for both



Cassandra Hemer wrote:

> Hi Everyone!
>
> I've been saving for a kick mic and I finally have enough. I've been
> using a RadioShack PZM until now. I was planning on a Beta 52 or a
> D112, just from my experience and what I've read and heard on the
> grapevine. I was ready to get one today when someone told me the
> EV408 is great on kick.. funnily enough they also had one to sell! I
> thought it was mostly a tom mic.. but if it does kick well then I
> guess it would be great to have a more versatile mic!
>
> So I've come to do some searching, but can't find much. There's
> nothing on EV's site about it either, is it a discontinued model? One
> thing I noticed was there's a 408A and 408B.. are the differences
> great?
>
> I'd like to get the opinion of the pro's before I make a decision.
> I'm far from a pro myself (but I'd like to be some day!) I'm currently
> studying B.PopularMusic at university and we use the D112 there..
> I'll mostly be doing demos for friends and experimenting, just to give
> you an idea of what level I'm at.
>
> Thanks for any opinions or advice you can give!
>
> Cassie