Soundcard with 2 Spdif inputs

[Pete]

Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
thing.

So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.

Thanks,

Peter

[Bert Kraaijpoel]

Pete wrote:

> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
I am not famiiar with the V amp Pro, so I can only respond to your
question about the SPDIF.

SPDIF is a stereo (or two channel) format. So you only need one SPDIF
-input in order to record two audio channels simultaneously.
Why bother finding a more complex soundcard?

my regards,
Bert Kraaijpoel

[Bert Kraaijpoel]

Pete wrote:

> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
I am not famiiar with the V amp Pro, so I can only respond to your
question about the SPDIF.

SPDIF is a stereo (or two channel) format. So you only need one SPDIF
-input in order to record two audio channels simultaneously.
Why bother finding a more complex soundcard?

my regards,
Bert Kraaijpoel

[Animix]

You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal headers.
This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO

"Pete" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter

[Animix]

You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal headers.
This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO

"Pete" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter

[Peter]

Thanks Animix that sounds like something that could work, i hope there is a
card with more than 1 spdif because it would make it easier and maybe
cheaper.

Bert Thanks for replying, instead of using the analog inputs of the sound
card I want to stay within the digital domain and so use the spdif inputs of
the soundcard so I have no loss in quality from the V-amp Pro which has
spdif outputs. The V-amp Pro is a guitar modeller that you plug your guitar
into and has AD converter inside and you plug your headphones and it sounds
pretty good like album quality and I want to stay digital and no DA
conversions going to the sound card.

Your right an spdif input is stereo but so is my V-amp that will connect to
it so that's great but the reason I want more than one spdif input is
because my buddy will be playing bass through his V-amp Bass Pro at the same
time which is a similar unit geared for Bass guitar and therefore I need
another spdif input on the soundcard. I do notice many sound cards have an
spdif input as well as an AES input and since the V-amp units have both
spdif and aes outputs i wonder if i can connect AES as well as spdif ? But
if you or anyone knows of a good soundcard with more than one spdif input it
would help a lot.

Thanks,

Peter



"Animix" > wrote in message
...
> You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal
headers.
> This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
> outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.
>
> Doug Joyce
> Animix Productions
> Durango, CO
>
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> > would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> > my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> > also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> > thing.
> >
> > So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> > be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> > need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Peter
>
>

[Peter]

Thanks Animix that sounds like something that could work, i hope there is a
card with more than 1 spdif because it would make it easier and maybe
cheaper.

Bert Thanks for replying, instead of using the analog inputs of the sound
card I want to stay within the digital domain and so use the spdif inputs of
the soundcard so I have no loss in quality from the V-amp Pro which has
spdif outputs. The V-amp Pro is a guitar modeller that you plug your guitar
into and has AD converter inside and you plug your headphones and it sounds
pretty good like album quality and I want to stay digital and no DA
conversions going to the sound card.

Your right an spdif input is stereo but so is my V-amp that will connect to
it so that's great but the reason I want more than one spdif input is
because my buddy will be playing bass through his V-amp Bass Pro at the same
time which is a similar unit geared for Bass guitar and therefore I need
another spdif input on the soundcard. I do notice many sound cards have an
spdif input as well as an AES input and since the V-amp units have both
spdif and aes outputs i wonder if i can connect AES as well as spdif ? But
if you or anyone knows of a good soundcard with more than one spdif input it
would help a lot.

Thanks,

Peter



"Animix" > wrote in message
...
> You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal
headers.
> This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
> outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.
>
> Doug Joyce
> Animix Productions
> Durango, CO
>
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> > would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> > my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> > also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> > thing.
> >
> > So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> > be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> > need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Peter
>
>

[Arny Krueger]

Pete wrote:
> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.

I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come to
mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.

There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to have
to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch. The good news is that they
have wordclock inputs that facilitate synching them, but the bad news is
that they don't have word clock outputs, so you will need a device with two
wordclock outputs to synch the two V-amps.

The good news is that if you keep the two V-amps in synch, they will keep
the two sound cards with SP/DIF inputs in synch.

So now your shopping list is:

(1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

(2) Two audio interfaces with SP/DIF inputs.

As far as the sound cards go, you can probably get away with some of the
lower cost cards, such as the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or Echo Mia.

Here are some possible word clock generators:

http://www.mercenary.com/worclocgenan.html

http://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/product_details.asp?sku=AARSYNCDA

[Arny Krueger]

Pete wrote:
> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
> thing.
>
> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.

I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come to
mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.

There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to have
to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch. The good news is that they
have wordclock inputs that facilitate synching them, but the bad news is
that they don't have word clock outputs, so you will need a device with two
wordclock outputs to synch the two V-amps.

The good news is that if you keep the two V-amps in synch, they will keep
the two sound cards with SP/DIF inputs in synch.

So now your shopping list is:

(1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

(2) Two audio interfaces with SP/DIF inputs.

As far as the sound cards go, you can probably get away with some of the
lower cost cards, such as the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or Echo Mia.

Here are some possible word clock generators:

http://www.mercenary.com/worclocgenan.html

http://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/product_details.asp?sku=AARSYNCDA

[Norbert Hahn]

(Pete) wrote:

>Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
>would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
>my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
>also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
>thing.

The Soundblaster Live has two independend S/P DIF inputs. One of them
is labeld S/P DIF in, the other is labeled CD Rom digital in. Using
the mixer program that comes with the card you should be able to use
them simultaneously. Unfortunately the voltage level for the CD Rom
digital in is 5V (TTL level). I don't know if the S/P DIF input is
standard 0.5V, as I don't use it. I connected the output of my TASCAM
DAT recorder (AES/EBU) to the CD rom digital input and it worked.

As I bought my SB Live over 5 years ago such a card should be found on
eBay nowadays.

Norbert

[Norbert Hahn]

(Pete) wrote:

>Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
>would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
>my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
>also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
>thing.

The Soundblaster Live has two independend S/P DIF inputs. One of them
is labeld S/P DIF in, the other is labeled CD Rom digital in. Using
the mixer program that comes with the card you should be able to use
them simultaneously. Unfortunately the voltage level for the CD Rom
digital in is 5V (TTL level). I don't know if the S/P DIF input is
standard 0.5V, as I don't use it. I connected the output of my TASCAM
DAT recorder (AES/EBU) to the CD rom digital input and it worked.

As I bought my SB Live over 5 years ago such a card should be found on
eBay nowadays.

Norbert

[Another Mike]

Bert Kraaijpoel > wrote in news:40bbaf4f$0$141
:

> Pete wrote:
>
>> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
>> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
>> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
>> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
>> thing.
>>
>> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
>> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
>> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Peter
> I am not famiiar with the V amp Pro, so I can only respond to your
> question about the SPDIF.
>
> SPDIF is a stereo (or two channel) format. So you only need one SPDIF
> -input in order to record two audio channels simultaneously.
> Why bother finding a more complex soundcard?
>
> my regards,
> Bert Kraaijpoel
>

I think he probably wants to record both (or at least the guitar) in
stereo.

I'm not sure if the V amp Pro has a facility to clock to an external
digital clock. If not, you'll have a nightmare trying to do what you want
to do. Just use analogue inputs/outputs on one VaP and you'll be fine.

[Another Mike]

Bert Kraaijpoel > wrote in news:40bbaf4f$0$141
:

> Pete wrote:
>
>> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
>> would do but more than 2 would be better. What I want to do is record
>> my guitar through a V-amp Pro and go into a soundcards spdif input. I
>> also want my bass player to go thru his V-amp Bass Pro and do the same
>> thing.
>>
>> So basically the soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can
>> be used at the same time and maybe 4 analog inputs or more. I don't
>> need the top of the line card but a decent pro-sumer would be good.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Peter
> I am not famiiar with the V amp Pro, so I can only respond to your
> question about the SPDIF.
>
> SPDIF is a stereo (or two channel) format. So you only need one SPDIF
> -input in order to record two audio channels simultaneously.
> Why bother finding a more complex soundcard?
>
> my regards,
> Bert Kraaijpoel
>

I think he probably wants to record both (or at least the guitar) in
stereo.

I'm not sure if the V amp Pro has a facility to clock to an external
digital clock. If not, you'll have a nightmare trying to do what you want
to do. Just use analogue inputs/outputs on one VaP and you'll be fine.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come to
> mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.

> There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to have
> to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch.

I'm surprised that this is such a hard-to-find item, but I suspect the
need for synchronizing the inputs may have kept manufacturers away
from such designs, offering just a single S/PDIF input for playback or
occasional use. However, there are A/D chips today that can re-clock
the incoming data stream so asynchronous inputs can be used
simultaneously. I'm not suggesting that the original poster needs a
Lynx AES-16 card (particularly if he needs optical S/PDIF inputs) but
that's one example.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come to
> mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.

> There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to have
> to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch.

I'm surprised that this is such a hard-to-find item, but I suspect the
need for synchronizing the inputs may have kept manufacturers away
from such designs, offering just a single S/PDIF input for playback or
occasional use. However, there are A/D chips today that can re-clock
the incoming data stream so asynchronous inputs can be used
simultaneously. I'm not suggesting that the original poster needs a
Lynx AES-16 card (particularly if he needs optical S/PDIF inputs) but
that's one example.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Another Mike]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in
:

>
> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock connections.
Am I wrong?

[Another Mike]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in
:

>
> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock connections.
Am I wrong?

[Arny Krueger]

Another Mike wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in
> :
>
>> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

> I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock
> connections. Am I wrong?

You can sometimes daisy-chain wordclock connections with care, but it
requires that you daisy-chain wordclock outputs to wordclock inputs.
According to the Behringer doc, V-amp Pro boxes have only wordclock inputs.
So, there's no way to properly daisy-chain V-amps.

If you try to drive wordclock inputs in parallel with Y-adaptors, you are
creating an impedance and level mismatches that unlike many situations in
audio, can actually matter quite a bit. That's why wordclock generators
usually have multiple, independently-buffered outputs.

BTW, the suggestion that you use a SBLive! which has multiple SPDIF-Like
inputs relates to this discussion as follows. Yes, the SBLIve! has multiple
SP/DIF inputs, but as was mentioned, one of them has the wrong signal levels
and would need some kind of level-matching hardware to work.

Let's say you somehow overcome the level mismatch associated with one of the
two SBLIve! digital inputs. The good news is that The Live! internally
reclocks all its digital inputs, and thus avoids the need for digital
sources with synchronized clocks. The bad news is that in general, legacy
SBLive! cards have bad enough reclocking facilities, that you would probably
get better results that were more sonically accurate, if you did all the
interfacing in the analog domain with a better quality sound card.

I question the sonic benefits of what you are trying to do. For me, the only
justification would be if the V-amp's output converters were pretty bad. Do
you know that to be in fact, the actual case?

[Arny Krueger]

Another Mike wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in
> :
>
>> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.

> I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock
> connections. Am I wrong?

You can sometimes daisy-chain wordclock connections with care, but it
requires that you daisy-chain wordclock outputs to wordclock inputs.
According to the Behringer doc, V-amp Pro boxes have only wordclock inputs.
So, there's no way to properly daisy-chain V-amps.

If you try to drive wordclock inputs in parallel with Y-adaptors, you are
creating an impedance and level mismatches that unlike many situations in
audio, can actually matter quite a bit. That's why wordclock generators
usually have multiple, independently-buffered outputs.

BTW, the suggestion that you use a SBLive! which has multiple SPDIF-Like
inputs relates to this discussion as follows. Yes, the SBLIve! has multiple
SP/DIF inputs, but as was mentioned, one of them has the wrong signal levels
and would need some kind of level-matching hardware to work.

Let's say you somehow overcome the level mismatch associated with one of the
two SBLIve! digital inputs. The good news is that The Live! internally
reclocks all its digital inputs, and thus avoids the need for digital
sources with synchronized clocks. The bad news is that in general, legacy
SBLive! cards have bad enough reclocking facilities, that you would probably
get better results that were more sonically accurate, if you did all the
interfacing in the analog domain with a better quality sound card.

I question the sonic benefits of what you are trying to do. For me, the only
justification would be if the V-amp's output converters were pretty bad. Do
you know that to be in fact, the actual case?

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock connections.
> Am I wrong?

Sometimes. And sometimes you can't. It's one of those things that just
depends. It's never the best way, but sometimes you can get away with
it. It's usually better to "T" word clock inputs rather than daisy
chain (output of one to input of the next one) as long as you have
control over whether they were terminated or not and can terminate
(only) the one on the far end.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock connections.
> Am I wrong?

Sometimes. And sometimes you can't. It's one of those things that just
depends. It's never the best way, but sometimes you can get away with
it. It's usually better to "T" word clock inputs rather than daisy
chain (output of one to input of the next one) as long as you have
control over whether they were terminated or not and can terminate
(only) the one on the far end.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Peter]

So with your example I could get 2 cards like the 2496 plug one V-amp Pro
into one card's digital in and the other V-amp Pro into the other cards
spdif. Then I need to Wordclock them together using a device like you posted
right ? So the outputs of the Wordclock device go into the Vamp Pro's
wordclock input right ? I 've never seen a standalone wordlock device, how
does it connect to the two sound cards and make the whole thing be in synch
? I think it's stupid there isn't a soundcard that has two digitial inputs
that can be used simultaeously with each other and internally clocked to be
in synch and also in synch with analog inputs as well. All I wanted is a 2
digital inputs and 4 analog inputs.

Peter

> I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come
to
> mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.
>
> There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to
have
> to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch. The good news is that they
> have wordclock inputs that facilitate synching them, but the bad news is
> that they don't have word clock outputs, so you will need a device with
two
> wordclock outputs to synch the two V-amps.
>
> The good news is that if you keep the two V-amps in synch, they will keep
> the two sound cards with SP/DIF inputs in synch.
>
> So now your shopping list is:
>
> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.
>
> (2) Two audio interfaces with SP/DIF inputs.
>
> As far as the sound cards go, you can probably get away with some of the
> lower cost cards, such as the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or Echo Mia.
>
> Here are some possible word clock generators:
>
> http://www.mercenary.com/worclocgenan.html
>
>
http://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/product_details.asp?sku=AARSYNCDA
>
>

[Peter]

So with your example I could get 2 cards like the 2496 plug one V-amp Pro
into one card's digital in and the other V-amp Pro into the other cards
spdif. Then I need to Wordclock them together using a device like you posted
right ? So the outputs of the Wordclock device go into the Vamp Pro's
wordclock input right ? I 've never seen a standalone wordlock device, how
does it connect to the two sound cards and make the whole thing be in synch
? I think it's stupid there isn't a soundcard that has two digitial inputs
that can be used simultaeously with each other and internally clocked to be
in synch and also in synch with analog inputs as well. All I wanted is a 2
digital inputs and 4 analog inputs.

Peter

> I've seen a lot of sound cards with SP/DIF inputs, but none with two come
to
> mind. That means that you will have to use two sound cards.
>
> There's another requirement that hasn't been discussed. You're going to
have
> to keep the two V-Amp digital clocks in synch. The good news is that they
> have wordclock inputs that facilitate synching them, but the bad news is
> that they don't have word clock outputs, so you will need a device with
two
> wordclock outputs to synch the two V-amps.
>
> The good news is that if you keep the two V-amps in synch, they will keep
> the two sound cards with SP/DIF inputs in synch.
>
> So now your shopping list is:
>
> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.
>
> (2) Two audio interfaces with SP/DIF inputs.
>
> As far as the sound cards go, you can probably get away with some of the
> lower cost cards, such as the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or Echo Mia.
>
> Here are some possible word clock generators:
>
> http://www.mercenary.com/worclocgenan.html
>
>
http://www.broadcast.harris.com/product_portfolio/product_details.asp?sku=AARSYNCDA
>
>

[Peter]

Hi Arny thanks for replying. I don't know if the DA on the Vamp Pro are bad
but i just want to stay in the digital realm without having to go DA then AD
again if i go the route of analog inputs of a soundcard. I will go that
route if its too much trouble to do what i'm doing. The funny thing is the
reason i wanted to do this is I figured i could find a cheap card with 2
spdif
inputs but i had no idea i had to clock all this together.


"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Another Mike wrote:
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.
>
> > I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock
> > connections. Am I wrong?
>
> You can sometimes daisy-chain wordclock connections with care, but it
> requires that you daisy-chain wordclock outputs to wordclock inputs.
> According to the Behringer doc, V-amp Pro boxes have only wordclock
inputs.
> So, there's no way to properly daisy-chain V-amps.
>
> If you try to drive wordclock inputs in parallel with Y-adaptors, you are
> creating an impedance and level mismatches that unlike many situations in
> audio, can actually matter quite a bit. That's why wordclock generators
> usually have multiple, independently-buffered outputs.
>
> BTW, the suggestion that you use a SBLive! which has multiple SPDIF-Like
> inputs relates to this discussion as follows. Yes, the SBLIve! has
multiple
> SP/DIF inputs, but as was mentioned, one of them has the wrong signal
levels
> and would need some kind of level-matching hardware to work.
>
> Let's say you somehow overcome the level mismatch associated with one of
the
> two SBLIve! digital inputs. The good news is that The Live! internally
> reclocks all its digital inputs, and thus avoids the need for digital
> sources with synchronized clocks. The bad news is that in general, legacy
> SBLive! cards have bad enough reclocking facilities, that you would
probably
> get better results that were more sonically accurate, if you did all the
> interfacing in the analog domain with a better quality sound card.
>
> I question the sonic benefits of what you are trying to do. For me, the
only
> justification would be if the V-amp's output converters were pretty bad.
Do
> you know that to be in fact, the actual case?
>
>
>
>
>

[Peter]

Hi Arny thanks for replying. I don't know if the DA on the Vamp Pro are bad
but i just want to stay in the digital realm without having to go DA then AD
again if i go the route of analog inputs of a soundcard. I will go that
route if its too much trouble to do what i'm doing. The funny thing is the
reason i wanted to do this is I figured i could find a cheap card with 2
spdif
inputs but i had no idea i had to clock all this together.


"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Another Mike wrote:
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> >> (1) Wordclock source with at least 2 outputs.
>
> > I was under the impression that you can daisy chain wordclock
> > connections. Am I wrong?
>
> You can sometimes daisy-chain wordclock connections with care, but it
> requires that you daisy-chain wordclock outputs to wordclock inputs.
> According to the Behringer doc, V-amp Pro boxes have only wordclock
inputs.
> So, there's no way to properly daisy-chain V-amps.
>
> If you try to drive wordclock inputs in parallel with Y-adaptors, you are
> creating an impedance and level mismatches that unlike many situations in
> audio, can actually matter quite a bit. That's why wordclock generators
> usually have multiple, independently-buffered outputs.
>
> BTW, the suggestion that you use a SBLive! which has multiple SPDIF-Like
> inputs relates to this discussion as follows. Yes, the SBLIve! has
multiple
> SP/DIF inputs, but as was mentioned, one of them has the wrong signal
levels
> and would need some kind of level-matching hardware to work.
>
> Let's say you somehow overcome the level mismatch associated with one of
the
> two SBLIve! digital inputs. The good news is that The Live! internally
> reclocks all its digital inputs, and thus avoids the need for digital
> sources with synchronized clocks. The bad news is that in general, legacy
> SBLive! cards have bad enough reclocking facilities, that you would
probably
> get better results that were more sonically accurate, if you did all the
> interfacing in the analog domain with a better quality sound card.
>
> I question the sonic benefits of what you are trying to do. For me, the
only
> justification would be if the V-amp's output converters were pretty bad.
Do
> you know that to be in fact, the actual case?
>
>
>
>
>

[Arny Krueger]

Peter wrote:

> So with your example I could get 2 cards like the 2496 plug one V-amp
> Pro into one card's digital in and the other V-amp Pro into the other
> cards spdif.

Yes.

>Then I need to Wordclock them together using a device
> like you posted right ? So the outputs of the Wordclock device go
> into the Vamp Pro's wordclock input right ?

Yes, one wordclock line into each Vamp.

> I 've never seen a
> standalone wordlock device, how does it connect to the two sound
> cards and make the whole thing be in synch ?

In this case you're synching the Vamps, and since they are in synch, they
keep their respective sound cards in synch.

> I think it's stupid
> there isn't a soundcard that has two digitial inputs that can be used
> simultaeously with each other and internally clocked to be in synch
> and also in synch with analog inputs as well.

Typically, the digital inputs of sound cards are under the control of the
signal that is input to them.

> All I wanted is a 2 digital inputs and 4 analog inputs.

In many ways, we haven't come very far with this stuff at all. BTW, there
are a number of sound cards with multiple digital inputs, but they aren't
SP/DIF.

One way to get a sound card with multiple SP/DIF onputs would be the
combination of the Lynx LS-AES with a LynxTwo Model A. That will give you
8 SP/DIF inputs and 4 sets of analog I/O. You'll still need the external
word clock.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/products.html

[Arny Krueger]

Peter wrote:

> So with your example I could get 2 cards like the 2496 plug one V-amp
> Pro into one card's digital in and the other V-amp Pro into the other
> cards spdif.

Yes.

>Then I need to Wordclock them together using a device
> like you posted right ? So the outputs of the Wordclock device go
> into the Vamp Pro's wordclock input right ?

Yes, one wordclock line into each Vamp.

> I 've never seen a
> standalone wordlock device, how does it connect to the two sound
> cards and make the whole thing be in synch ?

In this case you're synching the Vamps, and since they are in synch, they
keep their respective sound cards in synch.

> I think it's stupid
> there isn't a soundcard that has two digitial inputs that can be used
> simultaeously with each other and internally clocked to be in synch
> and also in synch with analog inputs as well.

Typically, the digital inputs of sound cards are under the control of the
signal that is input to them.

> All I wanted is a 2 digital inputs and 4 analog inputs.

In many ways, we haven't come very far with this stuff at all. BTW, there
are a number of sound cards with multiple digital inputs, but they aren't
SP/DIF.

One way to get a sound card with multiple SP/DIF onputs would be the
combination of the Lynx LS-AES with a LynxTwo Model A. That will give you
8 SP/DIF inputs and 4 sets of analog I/O. You'll still need the external
word clock.

http://www.lynxstudio.com/products.html

[Mike Rivers]

In article <%CBvc.9469$OI5.9406@edtnps84> writes:

> Hi Arny thanks for replying. I don't know if the DA on the Vamp Pro are bad
> but i just want to stay in the digital realm without having to go DA then AD
> again if i go the route of analog inputs of a soundcard.

You aren't spending enough money to get to do what you want all the
time. If you have the facilities to connect analog outputs to analog
inputs and record the way you want to record, enjoy the freedom. Just
watch your level setting. It's a small price to pay for no headaches
with digital interfacing and synchronization.

If you were recording pristine vocals with great mics in a fine
acoustic environment, I'd say it would be worth considering avoiding
another stage of conversion between analog and digital, but given that
you're recording the output of a guitar processor that's supposed to
add far more distortion than even the worst D/A and A/D co converter
to day will give you, it's a no-brainer to do it the easy way.

Surely you have better things to spend your money on right now, and
you could probably put the time getting it to work correctly to better
use by practicing your guitar playing. One has to balance priorities
in life.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article <%CBvc.9469$OI5.9406@edtnps84> writes:

> Hi Arny thanks for replying. I don't know if the DA on the Vamp Pro are bad
> but i just want to stay in the digital realm without having to go DA then AD
> again if i go the route of analog inputs of a soundcard.

You aren't spending enough money to get to do what you want all the
time. If you have the facilities to connect analog outputs to analog
inputs and record the way you want to record, enjoy the freedom. Just
watch your level setting. It's a small price to pay for no headaches
with digital interfacing and synchronization.

If you were recording pristine vocals with great mics in a fine
acoustic environment, I'd say it would be worth considering avoiding
another stage of conversion between analog and digital, but given that
you're recording the output of a guitar processor that's supposed to
add far more distortion than even the worst D/A and A/D co converter
to day will give you, it's a no-brainer to do it the easy way.

Surely you have better things to spend your money on right now, and
you could probably put the time getting it to work correctly to better
use by practicing your guitar playing. One has to balance priorities
in life.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[anybody-but-bush]

The nuendo soundcard supports 3 optical ADAT in.

Where is your digital coming from? Does the digital processor use the ADAT format too? If so
you could set the processors to ADAT and use the nuendo soundcard.

Cheers
Phil Abbate

[anybody-but-bush]

The nuendo soundcard supports 3 optical ADAT in.

Where is your digital coming from? Does the digital processor use the ADAT format too? If so
you could set the processors to ADAT and use the nuendo soundcard.

Cheers
Phil Abbate

[David Satz]

Pete wrote:

> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. [ ... ] So basically the
> soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can be used at the
> same time [ ... ]

It's unlikely that any well-designed sound card would have this type of
input arrangement, because in general applications, S/P-DIF is really the
wrong type of interface for recording more than two channels at a time.

S/P-DIF signals, like AES/EBU signals, are self-clocking. When an input
of either type is selected, a card has to extract the clock signal and
slave itself to one (and only one) incoming signal of this type. But
nothing guarantees that any two or more S/P-DIF inputs would be driven
in sync with each other. What's a card supposed to do if they're not?

The alternatives are both painful: divide the card, and either make it so
that each input tracks its own respective clock signal (which would result
in tracks that don't line up after recording), or else designate one input
as the main one, and then refuse to handle a second signal if it's not in
total sync with the first signal.

Can you imagine being the manufacturer of such a card, and handling all
the tech support calls and the product returns from customers who can't
(or don't want to) synch their digital signal sources to each other?

It's little better than taking two cards that each have one S/P-DIF input
apiece, and installing them both. It could all work as long as the signals
you're feeding in shared a common word clock. With signals that aren't
properly synchronized, you might still get a recording--but it wouldn't
necessarily be usable--and then guess who would be (quite properly) blamed
for the inappropriate product design?

Instead, there are devices from MOTU, M Audio and Hammerfall which convert
four or more analog signals to digital using one shared word clock. They
then fold the data into one combined stream and send it to a computer via
USB or FireWire connection. For that matter you can still find outboard
units designed for ADAT signal format (eight inputs) and sound cards such
as the Frontier WaveCenter PCI that I use, which have S/P-DIF I/O for
two-channel use and eight-channel ADAT I/O for multi-channel work.

--best regards

[David Satz]

Pete wrote:

> Hi can someone tell me a soundcard that has multiple spdif inputs, 2
> would do but more than 2 would be better. [ ... ] So basically the
> soundcard would have multiple spdif inputs that can be used at the
> same time [ ... ]

It's unlikely that any well-designed sound card would have this type of
input arrangement, because in general applications, S/P-DIF is really the
wrong type of interface for recording more than two channels at a time.

S/P-DIF signals, like AES/EBU signals, are self-clocking. When an input
of either type is selected, a card has to extract the clock signal and
slave itself to one (and only one) incoming signal of this type. But
nothing guarantees that any two or more S/P-DIF inputs would be driven
in sync with each other. What's a card supposed to do if they're not?

The alternatives are both painful: divide the card, and either make it so
that each input tracks its own respective clock signal (which would result
in tracks that don't line up after recording), or else designate one input
as the main one, and then refuse to handle a second signal if it's not in
total sync with the first signal.

Can you imagine being the manufacturer of such a card, and handling all
the tech support calls and the product returns from customers who can't
(or don't want to) synch their digital signal sources to each other?

It's little better than taking two cards that each have one S/P-DIF input
apiece, and installing them both. It could all work as long as the signals
you're feeding in shared a common word clock. With signals that aren't
properly synchronized, you might still get a recording--but it wouldn't
necessarily be usable--and then guess who would be (quite properly) blamed
for the inappropriate product design?

Instead, there are devices from MOTU, M Audio and Hammerfall which convert
four or more analog signals to digital using one shared word clock. They
then fold the data into one combined stream and send it to a computer via
USB or FireWire connection. For that matter you can still find outboard
units designed for ADAT signal format (eight inputs) and sound cards such
as the Frontier WaveCenter PCI that I use, which have S/P-DIF I/O for
two-channel use and eight-channel ADAT I/O for multi-channel work.

--best regards

[Noel Bachelor]

On or about Mon, 31 May 2004 21:44:56 -0600, Animix allegedly wrote:

> You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal headers.
> This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
> outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.

Yes, but one of them would have to be the master, and lock to it's digital
in. Unless you have clock ins on the source devices to keep them in sync,
they will not be locked together, so you'll have bits going missing.

Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)

[Noel Bachelor]

On or about Mon, 31 May 2004 21:44:56 -0600, Animix allegedly wrote:

> You could get two LynxOne cards and clock them using their internal headers.
> This would give you a pair of (switchable AES/s/pdif) stereo inputs and
> outputs and probably cost you around $500.00 if you can find them used.

Yes, but one of them would have to be the master, and lock to it's digital
in. Unless you have clock ins on the source devices to keep them in sync,
they will not be locked together, so you'll have bits going missing.

Noel Bachelor noelbachelorAT(From:_domain)
Language Recordings Inc (Darwin Australia)

[Paul Motter]

http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html

I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO

[Paul Motter]

http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html

I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO

[anybody-but-bush]

"Paul Motter" > wrote in message
om...
: http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html
:
: I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
: and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO

I wonder if it has optical and coax interfaces to one logical spdif ? If it does it has only
one spdif in with option for tos or coax.

In the mixer there should be two spdif inputs which would give you capability for 4 mono
digital streams. (2 spdif inputs/Output channels)

BTW: Watch out for M-Audio. They make some fine stuff like the delta 1010 and some completely
buggy **** like the AudioPile 24/96 USB. If you like to load drivers and start a debug session
each time you power up get the M-Audio USB Audiophile, it will guarantee you no time for play
and a frustrating session ending in self depreciation for being so foolish to spend your money
on ****. The AudioPile 24/96 USB has no mixer (when it has a skin at all-which is on a good
day).

Phil Abbate

[anybody-but-bush]

"Paul Motter" > wrote in message
om...
: http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html
:
: I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
: and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO

I wonder if it has optical and coax interfaces to one logical spdif ? If it does it has only
one spdif in with option for tos or coax.

In the mixer there should be two spdif inputs which would give you capability for 4 mono
digital streams. (2 spdif inputs/Output channels)

BTW: Watch out for M-Audio. They make some fine stuff like the delta 1010 and some completely
buggy **** like the AudioPile 24/96 USB. If you like to load drivers and start a debug session
each time you power up get the M-Audio USB Audiophile, it will guarantee you no time for play
and a frustrating session ending in self depreciation for being so foolish to spend your money
on ****. The AudioPile 24/96 USB has no mixer (when it has a skin at all-which is on a good
day).

Phil Abbate

[Arny Krueger]

anybody-but-bush wrote:
> "Paul Motter" > wrote in message
> om...
>> http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html
>>
>> I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
>> and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO
>
> I wonder if it has optical and coax interfaces to one logical spdif ?

It does. Just one logical digital input.

[Arny Krueger]

anybody-but-bush wrote:
> "Paul Motter" > wrote in message
> om...
>> http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/SNAMM99/Midiman/DiO-2448.html
>>
>> I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
>> and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO
>
> I wonder if it has optical and coax interfaces to one logical spdif ?

It does. Just one logical digital input.

[Norbert Hahn]

(David Satz) wrote:

>The alternatives are both painful: divide the card, and either make it so
>that each input tracks its own respective clock signal (which would result
>in tracks that don't line up after recording), or else designate one input
>as the main one, and then refuse to handle a second signal if it's not in
>total sync with the first signal.

There's another alternative: Just run all inputs (after clocking to the
respective DIF signal) through an asynchronous sample rate converter and
feed the resulting bitstreams into a digital mixer. That's what the old
SB Live does, imho, what all card do that have the AC-97 standard implemented.

Norbert

[Norbert Hahn]

(David Satz) wrote:

>The alternatives are both painful: divide the card, and either make it so
>that each input tracks its own respective clock signal (which would result
>in tracks that don't line up after recording), or else designate one input
>as the main one, and then refuse to handle a second signal if it's not in
>total sync with the first signal.

There's another alternative: Just run all inputs (after clocking to the
respective DIF signal) through an asynchronous sample rate converter and
feed the resulting bitstreams into a digital mixer. That's what the old
SB Live does, imho, what all card do that have the AC-97 standard implemented.

Norbert

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I the card above for sale. I has both coax and optical s/pdif inputs
> and outputs. M Audio 2448 DIO

I believe the original poster was looking for a card with two stereo
digital inputs that could be used simultaneously (for four channels
in). Isn't it an either-one selection (but not both) on your card?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo