Cool interview in Tape Op....

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\

Humbled in Dallas,

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

[Jim Kollens]

<< Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his
mic
and outboard gear collection. Drool..... >>

I like his tough and straitforward opinions about the state of recording. I am
painfully aware of my shortcomings as a so-called engineer that can't even seem
to remember ohms law. He seems to put a lot of the blame on home studios, but
on this one, I'm not sure if I agree with him wholeheartedly. Ultimately, I
think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do
with the studios at all. Without truly professional musicians, how can you
really have professional studios? The folks that I record are very talented
amateurs. If they had to pay for a "real" recording studio, they simply would
not record at all. They get gigs from once a week to once every month or so,
depending on the player/band. I'm doing a session next month with one of the
few pro musicians I currently know and his side men all have day jobs. This
session will produce the only real CD the dude has ever had: he could never
afford to go into a professional studio and was never signed by a label. He is
in his fifties and plays very, very well, but is in a niche area of jazz.

[Jim Kollens]

<< Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his
mic
and outboard gear collection. Drool..... >>

I like his tough and straitforward opinions about the state of recording. I am
painfully aware of my shortcomings as a so-called engineer that can't even seem
to remember ohms law. He seems to put a lot of the blame on home studios, but
on this one, I'm not sure if I agree with him wholeheartedly. Ultimately, I
think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do
with the studios at all. Without truly professional musicians, how can you
really have professional studios? The folks that I record are very talented
amateurs. If they had to pay for a "real" recording studio, they simply would
not record at all. They get gigs from once a week to once every month or so,
depending on the player/band. I'm doing a session next month with one of the
few pro musicians I currently know and his side men all have day jobs. This
session will produce the only real CD the dude has ever had: he could never
afford to go into a professional studio and was never signed by a label. He is
in his fifties and plays very, very well, but is in a niche area of jazz.

[Jim Kollens]

<< Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his
mic
and outboard gear collection. Drool..... >>

I like his tough and straitforward opinions about the state of recording. I am
painfully aware of my shortcomings as a so-called engineer that can't even seem
to remember ohms law. He seems to put a lot of the blame on home studios, but
on this one, I'm not sure if I agree with him wholeheartedly. Ultimately, I
think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do
with the studios at all. Without truly professional musicians, how can you
really have professional studios? The folks that I record are very talented
amateurs. If they had to pay for a "real" recording studio, they simply would
not record at all. They get gigs from once a week to once every month or so,
depending on the player/band. I'm doing a session next month with one of the
few pro musicians I currently know and his side men all have day jobs. This
session will produce the only real CD the dude has ever had: he could never
afford to go into a professional studio and was never signed by a label. He is
in his fifties and plays very, very well, but is in a niche area of jazz.

[Tom Paul]

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
>
> Humbled in Dallas,

What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.

Tom Paul

[Tom Paul]

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
>
> Humbled in Dallas,

What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.

Tom Paul

[Tom Paul]

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
>
> Humbled in Dallas,

What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.

Tom Paul

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Tom Paul" > wrote in message m...
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> > Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> > and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
> >
> > Humbled in Dallas,
>
> What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
> getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
> how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
> other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
> coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
> talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.
>
> Tom Paul

The interviewer could have led things in different directions, and there's
no telling what was ultimately omitted or edited out at press time.

I didn't perceive Walter as dissing home studios, but rather that since he
first entered the business, believed that recording could always have been
better than it was, and is now depressed (as we all are) at the lowering of
the 'bar'. I think the interviewer led the questioning toward home studios,
or more aptly... wanna'be folks calling themselves 'engineers'. I'm sure
responses to this line of questioning were difficult to temper with grace.

As a whole, I agree with you... a bit tired. But it had it's moments. At least
it wasn't another "MC Fruitcake" talking about his Roland workstation or new
PT rig.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Tom Paul" > wrote in message m...
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> > Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> > and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
> >
> > Humbled in Dallas,
>
> What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
> getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
> how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
> other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
> coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
> talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.
>
> Tom Paul

The interviewer could have led things in different directions, and there's
no telling what was ultimately omitted or edited out at press time.

I didn't perceive Walter as dissing home studios, but rather that since he
first entered the business, believed that recording could always have been
better than it was, and is now depressed (as we all are) at the lowering of
the 'bar'. I think the interviewer led the questioning toward home studios,
or more aptly... wanna'be folks calling themselves 'engineers'. I'm sure
responses to this line of questioning were difficult to temper with grace.

As a whole, I agree with you... a bit tired. But it had it's moments. At least
it wasn't another "MC Fruitcake" talking about his Roland workstation or new
PT rig.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Tom Paul" > wrote in message m...
> "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> > Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> > and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
> >
> > Humbled in Dallas,
>
> What's he have, 234 vintage mics? Yikes. I have to say though, I am
> getting bored with old guys saying how aweful everything is now and
> how great it was when they were young. In his case it's recording, in
> other cases it's manners, in others it's cars, etc. etc. etc. THis is
> coming from an old guy, me. I'm not dissing his accomplishments and
> talent, just saying that the tone of the piece was tired.
>
> Tom Paul

The interviewer could have led things in different directions, and there's
no telling what was ultimately omitted or edited out at press time.

I didn't perceive Walter as dissing home studios, but rather that since he
first entered the business, believed that recording could always have been
better than it was, and is now depressed (as we all are) at the lowering of
the 'bar'. I think the interviewer led the questioning toward home studios,
or more aptly... wanna'be folks calling themselves 'engineers'. I'm sure
responses to this line of questioning were difficult to temper with grace.

As a whole, I agree with you... a bit tired. But it had it's moments. At least
it wasn't another "MC Fruitcake" talking about his Roland workstation or new
PT rig.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

[chetatkinsdiet]

It is funny to call yourself an "engineer" without the basic knowledge
of the laws that apply to your craft. I mean, I could maybe
build/construct a small bridge across a creek, but I wouldn't call
myself a mechanical engineer.
later,
m

[chetatkinsdiet]

It is funny to call yourself an "engineer" without the basic knowledge
of the laws that apply to your craft. I mean, I could maybe
build/construct a small bridge across a creek, but I wouldn't call
myself a mechanical engineer.
later,
m

[chetatkinsdiet]

It is funny to call yourself an "engineer" without the basic knowledge
of the laws that apply to your craft. I mean, I could maybe
build/construct a small bridge across a creek, but I wouldn't call
myself a mechanical engineer.
later,
m

[Fill X]

since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the older
guys bring to the table. There is certainly plenty of the usual pro-tools, 2
buss compression etc talk in the magazine I think to satisfy most anyone. As
well as everyone saying "I like to go to yard sales and look for old mics and
crazy stuff." Yeah, we *all* do.

I think you need a balance of both, some issues are going to be more balanced
than others, but don't be surprised when you find someone with an axe to grind.
almost everyone has one or two.


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

[Fill X]

since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the older
guys bring to the table. There is certainly plenty of the usual pro-tools, 2
buss compression etc talk in the magazine I think to satisfy most anyone. As
well as everyone saying "I like to go to yard sales and look for old mics and
crazy stuff." Yeah, we *all* do.

I think you need a balance of both, some issues are going to be more balanced
than others, but don't be surprised when you find someone with an axe to grind.
almost everyone has one or two.


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

[Fill X]

since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the older
guys bring to the table. There is certainly plenty of the usual pro-tools, 2
buss compression etc talk in the magazine I think to satisfy most anyone. As
well as everyone saying "I like to go to yard sales and look for old mics and
crazy stuff." Yeah, we *all* do.

I think you need a balance of both, some issues are going to be more balanced
than others, but don't be surprised when you find someone with an axe to grind.
almost everyone has one or two.


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

[ScotFraser]

<< since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the
older
guys bring to the table. >>

I just loved the fact that he mentioned "the bass player for the Beatles"! Has
anybody in history ever referred to Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
Beatles"?
What a gem.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the
older
guys bring to the table. >>

I just loved the fact that he mentioned "the bass player for the Beatles"! Has
anybody in history ever referred to Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
Beatles"?
What a gem.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< since i write for tape op myself, I'll say I prefer the balance that the
older
guys bring to the table. >>

I just loved the fact that he mentioned "the bass player for the Beatles"! Has
anybody in history ever referred to Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
Beatles"?
What a gem.


Scott Fraser

[S O'Neill]

JP Gerard wrote:

> I thought he played bass for Wings???


He was in another band before that.

[S O'Neill]

JP Gerard wrote:

> I thought he played bass for Wings???


He was in another band before that.

[S O'Neill]

JP Gerard wrote:

> I thought he played bass for Wings???


He was in another band before that.

[Bob Olhsson]

"ScotFraser" > wrote in message
...
> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
> Beatles"?

Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Bob Olhsson]

"ScotFraser" > wrote in message
...
> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
> Beatles"?

Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Bob Olhsson]

"ScotFraser" > wrote in message
...
> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
> Beatles"?

Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Carey Carlan]

"Bob Olhsson" > wrote in
:

> "ScotFraser" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
>> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
>> Beatles"?
>
> Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

in nineteen-sixty-what?

[Carey Carlan]

"Bob Olhsson" > wrote in
:

> "ScotFraser" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
>> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
>> Beatles"?
>
> Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

in nineteen-sixty-what?

[Carey Carlan]

"Bob Olhsson" > wrote in
:

> "ScotFraser" > wrote in message
> ...
>> ...Has anybody in history ever referred to
>> Paul McCartney as "the bass player for the
>> Beatles"?
>
> Sure, the person who introduced him to me when he toured our studio!

in nineteen-sixty-what?

[Nobody]

Jim Kollens wrote:


<stuff deleted>


> Ultimately, I
> think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do


And why is that?


I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. For a mass
audience to know your music, you need airplay. With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. KPFT plays a wide variety of styles but I realize
most folks do not know about or have acess to such a station.

Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!! Add that to the fact that
the largest demographic group (baby boomers) is getting older and you
have a negative growth situation for the music industry. I denounce
stealing, but I think folks are putting way too much blame on the
downloaders. The lemming media has allowed the RIAA to practically
squeltch discussion of the real reasons. Perhaps the labels should look
into station ownership if that is allowed. Otherwise, wider/deeper
playlists and new formats should be encouraged. Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour.

Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.

Better times to you all,
Robert A. Ober
robob...at...swbell...dot...net

[Nobody]

Jim Kollens wrote:


<stuff deleted>


> Ultimately, I
> think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do


And why is that?


I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. For a mass
audience to know your music, you need airplay. With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. KPFT plays a wide variety of styles but I realize
most folks do not know about or have acess to such a station.

Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!! Add that to the fact that
the largest demographic group (baby boomers) is getting older and you
have a negative growth situation for the music industry. I denounce
stealing, but I think folks are putting way too much blame on the
downloaders. The lemming media has allowed the RIAA to practically
squeltch discussion of the real reasons. Perhaps the labels should look
into station ownership if that is allowed. Otherwise, wider/deeper
playlists and new formats should be encouraged. Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour.

Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.

Better times to you all,
Robert A. Ober
robob...at...swbell...dot...net

[Bob Olhsson]

Robert A. Ober wrote in message
m...
>
> Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.

I don't think anybody working for an RIAA member company would disagree with
this. The trouble is that we've got to fix local concert promotion and music
clubs too. NONE of these have been nurturing young musical talent as each
points their finger at the labels, the "public" and at each other about
their plight. It's really about being willing to take a chance on somebody
other than a former Mickey Mouse Club star.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Bob Olhsson]

Robert A. Ober wrote in message
m...
>
> Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.

I don't think anybody working for an RIAA member company would disagree with
this. The trouble is that we've got to fix local concert promotion and music
clubs too. NONE of these have been nurturing young musical talent as each
points their finger at the labels, the "public" and at each other about
their plight. It's really about being willing to take a chance on somebody
other than a former Mickey Mouse Club star.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[EggHd]

<< I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. >>

The biggest increasing segment of record buyers are older.

<< With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. >>

Format fragmintation happened before the big chains bout up the stations.

You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC, Urban, Urban
AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
It's all so narrowcast.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. >>

The biggest increasing segment of record buyers are older.

<< With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. >>

Format fragmintation happened before the big chains bout up the stations.

You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC, Urban, Urban
AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
It's all so narrowcast.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Jim Kollens]

me: << > Ultimately, I
> think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do
>>

Robert A. Ober replies: << And why is that?

I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. >>

The greying of America, yes, excellent point. And, of course, the one you
can't do anything about.

<< For a mass
audience to know your music, you need airplay. With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. KPFT plays a wide variety of styles but I realize
most folks do not know about or have acess to such a station.

Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!! Add that to the fact that
the largest demographic group (baby boomers) is getting older and you
have a negative growth situation for the music industry. I denounce
stealing, but I think folks are putting way too much blame on the
downloaders. The lemming media has allowed the RIAA to practically
squeltch discussion of the real reasons. Perhaps the labels should look
into station ownership if that is allowed. Otherwise, wider/deeper
playlists and new formats should be encouraged. Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour.

Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.
>>

Another great point. And this is actually the major problem with the USA at
this point: corporations. And one of the corporate problems in America is the
insurance industry. Now, the insurance industry doesn't like losing money so
they lobby the government and rile up people like MAD to put in laws that
change people's behaviour. So, the population gets tired of getting DUI's for
drinking a couple of beers and getting hassled for smoking cigarettes and
before you know it, they don't wanna go out anymore. Consequently, if enough
people don't go out to clubs, there is not enough clientelle to hire bands. If
bands are not hired, then musicians have to get day jobs to survive. If
musicians have to get day jobs to survive , they can never achieve their full
potential as artists. The end result is that there is an abundance of
sub-standard musicians and song-writers. Nor what does this do? Combine this
with your radio issue and a number of other factors and you have our current
situation. There are many factors but I maintain that there is an atmosphere
of paranoia in the USA that is stifling creativity. And this atmosphere is
being imposed rather than self-imposed. Things started becoming very
noticeable around 1990: the good times were over. Strange, isn't it? And
so many people were cashing in on the stock market, but everyone I knew seemed
to be miserable. Ask Europeans or foreignors in general. They think we're
nuts, that we don't know how to have a good time and let loose. It wasn't
always like this.

[Jim Kollens]

me: << > Ultimately, I
> think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do
>>

Robert A. Ober replies: << And why is that?

I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. >>

The greying of America, yes, excellent point. And, of course, the one you
can't do anything about.

<< For a mass
audience to know your music, you need airplay. With the consilidation
of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
we do in Houston. KPFT plays a wide variety of styles but I realize
most folks do not know about or have acess to such a station.

Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!! Add that to the fact that
the largest demographic group (baby boomers) is getting older and you
have a negative growth situation for the music industry. I denounce
stealing, but I think folks are putting way too much blame on the
downloaders. The lemming media has allowed the RIAA to practically
squeltch discussion of the real reasons. Perhaps the labels should look
into station ownership if that is allowed. Otherwise, wider/deeper
playlists and new formats should be encouraged. Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour.

Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.
>>

Another great point. And this is actually the major problem with the USA at
this point: corporations. And one of the corporate problems in America is the
insurance industry. Now, the insurance industry doesn't like losing money so
they lobby the government and rile up people like MAD to put in laws that
change people's behaviour. So, the population gets tired of getting DUI's for
drinking a couple of beers and getting hassled for smoking cigarettes and
before you know it, they don't wanna go out anymore. Consequently, if enough
people don't go out to clubs, there is not enough clientelle to hire bands. If
bands are not hired, then musicians have to get day jobs to survive. If
musicians have to get day jobs to survive , they can never achieve their full
potential as artists. The end result is that there is an abundance of
sub-standard musicians and song-writers. Nor what does this do? Combine this
with your radio issue and a number of other factors and you have our current
situation. There are many factors but I maintain that there is an atmosphere
of paranoia in the USA that is stifling creativity. And this atmosphere is
being imposed rather than self-imposed. Things started becoming very
noticeable around 1990: the good times were over. Strange, isn't it? And
so many people were cashing in on the stock market, but everyone I knew seemed
to be miserable. Ask Europeans or foreignors in general. They think we're
nuts, that we don't know how to have a good time and let loose. It wasn't
always like this.

[EggHd]

<< Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour. >>

Right and the crowds don't want to hear much of the new music at the concerts
either.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< Any stations in your
area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour. >>

Right and the crowds don't want to hear much of the new music at the concerts
either.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Carey Carlan]

(EggHd) wrote in
:

> You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.

And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine distinctions.

[Carey Carlan]

(EggHd) wrote in
:

> You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.

And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine distinctions.

[EggHd]

<< > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.

And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine distinctions. >>

These really are radio formats that play types of records. These formats have
their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart doesn't mean anything
anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and those are reflected in R&R and the
billboard monitor charts. These monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.


You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
Avril...Ever.

You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
Mtachbox, maroon 5.

Etc.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.

And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine distinctions. >>

These really are radio formats that play types of records. These formats have
their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart doesn't mean anything
anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and those are reflected in R&R and the
billboard monitor charts. These monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.


You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
Avril...Ever.

You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
Mtachbox, maroon 5.

Etc.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[ScotFraser]

<< You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC, Urban,
Urban
AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
It's all so narrowcast. >>

I remember having music or talk as radio categories. That was cool.

Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC, Urban,
Urban
AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
It's all so narrowcast. >>

I remember having music or talk as radio categories. That was cool.

Scott Fraser

[Carey Carlan]

(EggHd) wrote in
:

> << > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
>> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
>> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.
>
> And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine
> distinctions. >>
>
> These really are radio formats that play types of records. These
> formats have their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart
> doesn't mean anything anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and
> those are reflected in R&R and the billboard monitor charts. These
> monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.
>
>
> You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
> Avril...Ever.
>
> You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
> Mtachbox, maroon 5.

And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.

Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

[Carey Carlan]

(EggHd) wrote in
:

> << > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
>> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
>> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.
>
> And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine
> distinctions. >>
>
> These really are radio formats that play types of records. These
> formats have their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart
> doesn't mean anything anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and
> those are reflected in R&R and the billboard monitor charts. These
> monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.
>
>
> You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
> Avril...Ever.
>
> You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
> Mtachbox, maroon 5.

And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.

Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 205...
> (EggHd) wrote in
> :
>
> > << > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> >> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> >> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.
> >
> > And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine
> > distinctions. >>
> >
> > These really are radio formats that play types of records. These
> > formats have their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart
> > doesn't mean anything anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and
> > those are reflected in R&R and the billboard monitor charts. These
> > monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.
> >
> >
> > You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
> > Avril...Ever.
> >
> > You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
> > Mtachbox, maroon 5.
>
> And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
> Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.

Not necessarily - you can hear both of these folks on some AC stations; AC
is probbaly about the closest thing to a broad "Top 40" format there is
today... but your point is not missed - it's difficult for someone who's
not fixated on one subgenre to be able to stay on one station all day long.

> Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

It *can*, but most of the time, it depends on the demographics of a
particular market. If you've got a market with a wide diversity of age
groups, ethnic backgrounds, etc, then a broad format (usually it's going to
be some kind of AC station) might work real well... gives a little bit of
something for everyone. Might not be the #1 station, but still can be very
competitive. You get an age 55 & older-skewing retirement market, for
example, and a broad format would be more or less a waste of time... you'd
better be doing something like: "KZZZ - Soft Hits 99.1" or be an AM
news-talker.

Most of the time, though, radio groups are more concerned about
narrowcasting each station to a particular demographic & psychographic
group... when you had 10 or 12 station owners in a particular market, you
used to see several stations in each of a few different wider formats
battling it out; now in your typical market with three or four major radio
groups owning 5 or 6 or 8 stations each, they're not going to try to leech
their own audiences away from each other. Now you're more likely to see a
typical radio group having an Active Rock station, a Classic Rocker, a Hot
AC station, an Urban station, an AM news-talk, and an AM sports-talk (for
example), in a given market. That way they don't have a lot of shared
listenership between their own stations. Usually it's the groups that might
only have, for example 3 stations in that same market that might try to get
a little wider in their scope... that kind of group might have a Rocker
that plays a mix of new stuff & classic rock, an AC that almost sounds like
a curent version of the old "Top 40" format., and if they have a country
station, it's going to be a mix of old & new stuff; not like a larger group
that might have a "Classic Country" and a "New Country" format, each on two
different stations.

So, in any event, it's all about knowing your particular target audience &
how well you serve that audience... that part hasn't changed.
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 205...
> (EggHd) wrote in
> :
>
> > << > You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
> >> Urban, Urban AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A,
> >> Smooth Jazz, Country... It's all so narrowcast.
> >
> > And I (among many others, I'm sure) fail to see these fine
> > distinctions. >>
> >
> > These really are radio formats that play types of records. These
> > formats have their own charts. The Billboard Hot 100 singles chart
> > doesn't mean anything anymore. People look at BDS, Media Base and
> > those are reflected in R&R and the billboard monitor charts. These
> > monitor detected spins, not reprted playlists.
> >
> >
> > You are not going to turn on an urban station and hear Clay Aiken or
> > Avril...Ever.
> >
> > You will not hear Usher on Hot AC, Although you will hear Sheryl crow,
> > Mtachbox, maroon 5.
>
> And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
> Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.

Not necessarily - you can hear both of these folks on some AC stations; AC
is probbaly about the closest thing to a broad "Top 40" format there is
today... but your point is not missed - it's difficult for someone who's
not fixated on one subgenre to be able to stay on one station all day long.

> Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

It *can*, but most of the time, it depends on the demographics of a
particular market. If you've got a market with a wide diversity of age
groups, ethnic backgrounds, etc, then a broad format (usually it's going to
be some kind of AC station) might work real well... gives a little bit of
something for everyone. Might not be the #1 station, but still can be very
competitive. You get an age 55 & older-skewing retirement market, for
example, and a broad format would be more or less a waste of time... you'd
better be doing something like: "KZZZ - Soft Hits 99.1" or be an AM
news-talker.

Most of the time, though, radio groups are more concerned about
narrowcasting each station to a particular demographic & psychographic
group... when you had 10 or 12 station owners in a particular market, you
used to see several stations in each of a few different wider formats
battling it out; now in your typical market with three or four major radio
groups owning 5 or 6 or 8 stations each, they're not going to try to leech
their own audiences away from each other. Now you're more likely to see a
typical radio group having an Active Rock station, a Classic Rocker, a Hot
AC station, an Urban station, an AM news-talk, and an AM sports-talk (for
example), in a given market. That way they don't have a lot of shared
listenership between their own stations. Usually it's the groups that might
only have, for example 3 stations in that same market that might try to get
a little wider in their scope... that kind of group might have a Rocker
that plays a mix of new stuff & classic rock, an AC that almost sounds like
a curent version of the old "Top 40" format., and if they have a country
station, it's going to be a mix of old & new stuff; not like a larger group
that might have a "Classic Country" and a "New Country" format, each on two
different stations.

So, in any event, it's all about knowing your particular target audience &
how well you serve that audience... that part hasn't changed.
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

[ScotFraser]

<< Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>

That, apparently, is what the bean counters who control programming think. When
I was growing up pop radio included Dylan, Beatles, Stones, novelty stuff (like
"They're Coming To Take Me Away", Tiny Tim & Mrs Miller,) blues (Slim Harpo's
"Scratch My Back"), pop dreck, psychedelia, folk rock, rockabilly & other
genres, all on the same station. Of course, back in those days we had to hand
crank the generator to make the power to run the radio, & the snow drifts were
over 30 feet high.


Scott Fraser

[ScotFraser]

<< Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>

That, apparently, is what the bean counters who control programming think. When
I was growing up pop radio included Dylan, Beatles, Stones, novelty stuff (like
"They're Coming To Take Me Away", Tiny Tim & Mrs Miller,) blues (Slim Harpo's
"Scratch My Back"), pop dreck, psychedelia, folk rock, rockabilly & other
genres, all on the same station. Of course, back in those days we had to hand
crank the generator to make the power to run the radio, & the snow drifts were
over 30 feet high.


Scott Fraser

[EggHd]

<< And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations. >>

They can hear both of those records on CHR pop stations, and some Hot AC/Modern
Adult stations that don't lean too modern.

<< Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>

The programmers don't believe so




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations. >>

They can hear both of those records on CHR pop stations, and some Hot AC/Modern
Adult stations that don't lean too modern.

<< Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>

The programmers don't believe so




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Ken / Eleven Shadows]

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
>
> Humbled in Dallas,

I also read the article and really agreed with a lot of what he said
about audio. Good audio is good audio. I really like a lot of
TapeOp's articles in general.


Ken/Eleven Shadows
http://www.elevenshadows.com
http://www.blueberrybuddha.com

[Ken / Eleven Shadows]

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" > wrote in message >...
> Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... :-\
>
> Humbled in Dallas,

I also read the article and really agreed with a lot of what he said
about audio. Good audio is good audio. I really like a lot of
TapeOp's articles in general.


Ken/Eleven Shadows
http://www.elevenshadows.com
http://www.blueberrybuddha.com

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > Ultimately, I
> > think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> > difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do

> I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
> issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. For a mass
> audience to know your music, you need airplay.

Around these parts (rec.audio.pro, in case this is cross-posted) a lot
of the discussion is along the line that there are thousands and
thousands of musicians making music that isn't like what the mass
market buys, and they want to be heard (and make a living from their
music) too. The problem is that without a large market, you can't make
a large living. If you can only sell 1000 records a year (not bad for
an independent artist) you probably can't afford to live on what you
make from that effort. And if you can only sell 1000 copies a year,
the mass market airplay stations aren't interested in you. And in the
small market, you're just one of the thousands of others getting
airplay there. So instead of your song being played 12 times a day on
a single radio station, it might get played twice a year.

> Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!!

It's true, but non-commercial radio, while it's cool for the listener,
doesn't do much to enhance the income of artists that they play. The
best they can do is push the songs of an artist appearing locally, and
many do. But the artist makes money on the gig (perhaps mostly by
selling CDs between sets) - the airplay gets people to the gig rather
than into the record store.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > Ultimately, I
> > think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> > difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little to do

> I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
> issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. For a mass
> audience to know your music, you need airplay.

Around these parts (rec.audio.pro, in case this is cross-posted) a lot
of the discussion is along the line that there are thousands and
thousands of musicians making music that isn't like what the mass
market buys, and they want to be heard (and make a living from their
music) too. The problem is that without a large market, you can't make
a large living. If you can only sell 1000 records a year (not bad for
an independent artist) you probably can't afford to live on what you
make from that effort. And if you can only sell 1000 copies a year,
the mass market airplay stations aren't interested in you. And in the
small market, you're just one of the thousands of others getting
airplay there. So instead of your song being played 12 times a day on
a single radio station, it might get played twice a year.

> Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!!

It's true, but non-commercial radio, while it's cool for the listener,
doesn't do much to enhance the income of artists that they play. The
best they can do is push the songs of an artist appearing locally, and
many do. But the artist makes money on the gig (perhaps mostly by
selling CDs between sets) - the airplay gets people to the gig rather
than into the record store.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike]

(Jim Kollens) wrote in message >...
> << Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his
> mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... >>
>
> I like his tough and straitforward opinions about the state of recording. I am
> painfully aware of my shortcomings as a so-called engineer that can't even seem
> to remember ohms law. He seems to put a lot of the blame on home studios,



Any one who blames home studios is bitter and myopic. There is a
natural progression to most industries that is a result of the sucess
of the industry as well as a critical mass of certain things. The
growing of the industry and its own technological advancements slowly
made available a lot of equipment to the semi-pro user and then the
amatuer. That is a natural process. Starting with the mid seventies
(maybe earlier?) you end up with a burgeoning 4 and 8 track demo
studio market. Heck, Sun Records was pretty close to a demo studio.

I am sure you know the rest of the history and I think if you go and
study your economics and business I think you might find a reference
to what they call a "muture industry" and I think that includes the
gear end of it as well. If you ever get into a place like Guitar
Center they are suddenly carrying a lot of things they didn't before.
Such as selling computers, consumer DVD players etc. They are looking
for any edge because the gear parade is tapping out.

On the positive flipside of that prices on gear and the manufacturing
numbers should recede a bit and stabalize, and that will actually help
the traditional studios.


Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

[Mike]

(Jim Kollens) wrote in message >...
> << Tape Op talks with Walter Sear (Sear Sound) in this issue and discusses his
> mic
> and outboard gear collection. Drool..... >>
>
> I like his tough and straitforward opinions about the state of recording. I am
> painfully aware of my shortcomings as a so-called engineer that can't even seem
> to remember ohms law. He seems to put a lot of the blame on home studios,



Any one who blames home studios is bitter and myopic. There is a
natural progression to most industries that is a result of the sucess
of the industry as well as a critical mass of certain things. The
growing of the industry and its own technological advancements slowly
made available a lot of equipment to the semi-pro user and then the
amatuer. That is a natural process. Starting with the mid seventies
(maybe earlier?) you end up with a burgeoning 4 and 8 track demo
studio market. Heck, Sun Records was pretty close to a demo studio.

I am sure you know the rest of the history and I think if you go and
study your economics and business I think you might find a reference
to what they call a "muture industry" and I think that includes the
gear end of it as well. If you ever get into a place like Guitar
Center they are suddenly carrying a lot of things they didn't before.
Such as selling computers, consumer DVD players etc. They are looking
for any edge because the gear parade is tapping out.

On the positive flipside of that prices on gear and the manufacturing
numbers should recede a bit and stabalize, and that will actually help
the traditional studios.


Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
> Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.
>
> Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

No, it means that they (one company probably owns both stations) have
twice as much commercial time to sell.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> And the narrow formats mean that someone who likes both Clay Aiken and
> Sheryl Crow has to flip between two different stations.
>
> Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?

No, it means that they (one company probably owns both stations) have
twice as much commercial time to sell.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> AC is very conservative and a #1 record is only getting 2K or so spins a week.

Is this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week?
That really sounds unlikely. Assuming even distribution it would be
285 per day, or nearly 12 times per hour. Some stations don't play 12
songs in an hour.

Hopefully it's something more sensible, like total plays among all the
tabulated stations (and how many is that?).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> AC is very conservative and a #1 record is only getting 2K or so spins a week.

Is this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week?
That really sounds unlikely. Assuming even distribution it would be
285 per day, or nearly 12 times per hour. Some stations don't play 12
songs in an hour.

Hopefully it's something more sensible, like total plays among all the
tabulated stations (and how many is that?).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Bob Olhsson]

"EggHd" > wrote in message
...
> << Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>
>
> The programmers don't believe so

A broad format attracts a broad audience. Advertisers want narrow audiences
so that when their new product lays an egg, they can point to having
advertised to the very same people their market research told them should
have bought the product. Radio has become less and less about entertaining
people and more and more about sorting them in such a way as to cover the
middle management's asses of our newly consolidated corporate sponsors.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

[Bob Olhsson]

"EggHd" > wrote in message
...
> << Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format? >>
>
> The programmers don't believe so

A broad format attracts a broad audience. Advertisers want narrow audiences
so that when their new product lays an egg, they can point to having
advertised to the very same people their market research told them should
have bought the product. Radio has become less and less about entertaining
people and more and more about sorting them in such a way as to cover the
middle management's asses of our newly consolidated corporate sponsors.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1086547819k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > AC is very conservative and a #1 record is only getting 2K or so spins
a week.
>
> Is this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week?
> That really sounds unlikely. Assuming even distribution it would be
> 285 per day, or nearly 12 times per hour. Some stations don't play 12
> songs in an hour.
>
> Hopefully it's something more sensible, like total plays among all the
> tabulated stations (and how many is that?).

It is... total reported plays across the country in that format. There's
over 700 stations in the Adult Contemporary format in the U.S., so that's
not that many plays per station, per day. When Egg says that Hot AC is way
more active, he's not kidding because there's only about 450 stations in
the Hot AC format; so that's double the plays, but with much fewer
stations... you're talking less than three spins a day average on AC vs.
almost 9 spins a day on the average Hot AC station for that particular
song.
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1086547819k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > AC is very conservative and a #1 record is only getting 2K or so spins
a week.
>
> Is this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week?
> That really sounds unlikely. Assuming even distribution it would be
> 285 per day, or nearly 12 times per hour. Some stations don't play 12
> songs in an hour.
>
> Hopefully it's something more sensible, like total plays among all the
> tabulated stations (and how many is that?).

It is... total reported plays across the country in that format. There's
over 700 stations in the Adult Contemporary format in the U.S., so that's
not that many plays per station, per day. When Egg says that Hot AC is way
more active, he's not kidding because there's only about 450 stations in
the Hot AC format; so that's double the plays, but with much fewer
stations... you're talking less than three spins a day average on AC vs.
almost 9 spins a day on the average Hot AC station for that particular
song.
--


Neil Henderson
Progressive Rock
http://www.saqqararecords.com

[EggHd]

<< s this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week? >>

Sorry 2K spins a week in the format of the reporting stations. And we are
talking about the #1 record.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< s this a code, or is it really getting two thousand plays in a week? >>

Sorry 2K spins a week in the format of the reporting stations. And we are
talking about the #1 record.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< There's over 700 stations in the Adult Contemporary format in the U.S., so
that's
not that many plays per station, per day. >>

But the reporting panel is nowhere near 700 stations. There are 135 AC stations
that are R&R reporters.

WASH FM in DC (the #8 market) has Josh grobin at #1 with 23 spins last week,
Shania at #2 also with 23 spins

KezK in ST Louis (#20 market) has Fibe For Fighting at # 1 with 17 spins





---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< There's over 700 stations in the Adult Contemporary format in the U.S., so
that's
not that many plays per station, per day. >>

But the reporting panel is nowhere near 700 stations. There are 135 AC stations
that are R&R reporters.

WASH FM in DC (the #8 market) has Josh grobin at #1 with 23 spins last week,
Shania at #2 also with 23 spins

KezK in ST Louis (#20 market) has Fibe For Fighting at # 1 with 17 spins





---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Sam Byrams]

> Not necessarily - you can hear both of these folks on some AC stations; AC
> is probbaly about the closest thing to a broad "Top 40" format there is
> today... but your point is not missed - it's difficult for someone who's
> not fixated on one subgenre to be able to stay on one station all day long.
>
> > Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?
>
> It *can*, but most of the time, it depends on the demographics of a
> particular market. If you've got a market with a wide diversity of age
> groups, ethnic backgrounds, etc, then a broad format (usually it's going to
> be some kind of AC station) might work real well... gives a little bit of
> something for everyone. Might not be the #1 station, but still can be very
> competitive. You get an age 55 & older-skewing retirement market, for
> example, and a broad format would be more or less a waste of time... you'd
> better be doing something like: "KZZZ - Soft Hits 99.1" or be an AM
> news-talker.
>
> Most of the time, though, radio groups are more concerned about
> narrowcasting each station to a particular demographic & psychographic
> group... when you had 10 or 12 station owners in a particular market, you
> used to see several stations in each of a few different wider formats
> battling it out; now in your typical market with three or four major radio
> groups owning 5 or 6 or 8 stations each, they're not going to try to leech
> their own audiences away from each other. Now you're more likely to see a
> typical radio group having an Active Rock station, a Classic Rocker, a Hot
> AC station, an Urban station, an AM news-talk, and an AM sports-talk (for
> example), in a given market. That way they don't have a lot of shared
> listenership between their own stations. Usually it's the groups that might
> only have, for example 3 stations in that same market that might try to get
> a little wider in their scope... that kind of group might have a Rocker
> that plays a mix of new stuff & classic rock, an AC that almost sounds like
> a curent version of the old "Top 40" format., and if they have a country
> station, it's going to be a mix of old & new stuff; not like a larger group
> that might have a "Classic Country" and a "New Country" format, each on two
> different stations.
>
> So, in any event, it's all about knowing your particular target audience &
> how well you serve that audience... that part hasn't changed.


They are determined, their entire business model is predicated, on
being able to _very_ narrowly cast to a very definable demo. You
cannot have quality radio when that's the overriding goal. That's the
long and the short of it.

Allowing a small number of companies, with easy access to public
capital, ownership of all of a given area's radio stations means a few
anointed big swinging dicks-consultants or hot-shot music and program
directors-control what every one in an entire market, and in fact,
inevitably, every market, listen to. Since the FCC specifically limits
the number of radio stations not only by the number that can share the
allocated bandwidth over a given area but to specifically limit direct
competition-meaning secondary and tertiary markets usually are not
built out as fully as the band would permit-there's always a
Harley-Davidson-like shortage of stations. (Harley-Davidson builds 10%
less motorcycles than it can sell, which makes business sense for H-D
because a large portion of their corporate revenue is in effect a
mystique franchise-they license their logo at colossal return with
only the legal overhead of enforcement for overhead.)

Then NAB is after Congress to stop XM and Sirius from localizing any
of their content. Leaving aside the fact that the same numbnuts that
have killed broadcast radio are largely responsible for programming
the satcasters, this is like the Catholic Church bitching that Mormons
have too many kids and too much political pull.

The solutions are several, but none will happen, because Clear
Channel has a lot of money and the American public votes with the
money. In effect, Rome did too, and the result will be as Lee
Strasberg said in an entirely different context: the place they went
to is one we must all someday visit. I give the USA another fifty
years, at which time I'd be 96. Doubt I'll make it.

[Sam Byrams]

> Not necessarily - you can hear both of these folks on some AC stations; AC
> is probbaly about the closest thing to a broad "Top 40" format there is
> today... but your point is not missed - it's difficult for someone who's
> not fixated on one subgenre to be able to stay on one station all day long.
>
> > Does that mean a station can't hold an audience with a broad format?
>
> It *can*, but most of the time, it depends on the demographics of a
> particular market. If you've got a market with a wide diversity of age
> groups, ethnic backgrounds, etc, then a broad format (usually it's going to
> be some kind of AC station) might work real well... gives a little bit of
> something for everyone. Might not be the #1 station, but still can be very
> competitive. You get an age 55 & older-skewing retirement market, for
> example, and a broad format would be more or less a waste of time... you'd
> better be doing something like: "KZZZ - Soft Hits 99.1" or be an AM
> news-talker.
>
> Most of the time, though, radio groups are more concerned about
> narrowcasting each station to a particular demographic & psychographic
> group... when you had 10 or 12 station owners in a particular market, you
> used to see several stations in each of a few different wider formats
> battling it out; now in your typical market with three or four major radio
> groups owning 5 or 6 or 8 stations each, they're not going to try to leech
> their own audiences away from each other. Now you're more likely to see a
> typical radio group having an Active Rock station, a Classic Rocker, a Hot
> AC station, an Urban station, an AM news-talk, and an AM sports-talk (for
> example), in a given market. That way they don't have a lot of shared
> listenership between their own stations. Usually it's the groups that might
> only have, for example 3 stations in that same market that might try to get
> a little wider in their scope... that kind of group might have a Rocker
> that plays a mix of new stuff & classic rock, an AC that almost sounds like
> a curent version of the old "Top 40" format., and if they have a country
> station, it's going to be a mix of old & new stuff; not like a larger group
> that might have a "Classic Country" and a "New Country" format, each on two
> different stations.
>
> So, in any event, it's all about knowing your particular target audience &
> how well you serve that audience... that part hasn't changed.


They are determined, their entire business model is predicated, on
being able to _very_ narrowly cast to a very definable demo. You
cannot have quality radio when that's the overriding goal. That's the
long and the short of it.

Allowing a small number of companies, with easy access to public
capital, ownership of all of a given area's radio stations means a few
anointed big swinging dicks-consultants or hot-shot music and program
directors-control what every one in an entire market, and in fact,
inevitably, every market, listen to. Since the FCC specifically limits
the number of radio stations not only by the number that can share the
allocated bandwidth over a given area but to specifically limit direct
competition-meaning secondary and tertiary markets usually are not
built out as fully as the band would permit-there's always a
Harley-Davidson-like shortage of stations. (Harley-Davidson builds 10%
less motorcycles than it can sell, which makes business sense for H-D
because a large portion of their corporate revenue is in effect a
mystique franchise-they license their logo at colossal return with
only the legal overhead of enforcement for overhead.)

Then NAB is after Congress to stop XM and Sirius from localizing any
of their content. Leaving aside the fact that the same numbnuts that
have killed broadcast radio are largely responsible for programming
the satcasters, this is like the Catholic Church bitching that Mormons
have too many kids and too much political pull.

The solutions are several, but none will happen, because Clear
Channel has a lot of money and the American public votes with the
money. In effect, Rome did too, and the result will be as Lee
Strasberg said in an entirely different context: the place they went
to is one we must all someday visit. I give the USA another fifty
years, at which time I'd be 96. Doubt I'll make it.

[Andrew]

<< You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
Urban, Urban
> AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
> It's all so narrowcast. >>

Can you give me an example of Heritage Rock? This discussion is
fascinating.

What are bands like Modest Mouse and Franz Ferdinand? That Franz
Ferdinand single is (according to a kroq dj) the #1 requested track
right now...and modest mouse's new album is #16 on billboard top 200.
Do people still call these bands Indie Rock? Or do they fit into
Hot AC? The indie-non-indie discussion is tired I know...but in terms
of airplay markets etc I am wondering how they are classified.

Also how does MTV, MTV2, and VH1 fit in? I find VH1 unwatchable...and
have ever since behind the music went away. That Sheryl Crow/Kid Rock
video I believe was the lowest point in television history. I still
feel funny even thinking about it.


Andrew

[Andrew]

<< You now have CHR (pop), CHR Rhythmic, Hot AC (Modern adult), AC,
Urban, Urban
> AC, Alternative, Active Rock, Heritage Rock, Triple A, Smooth Jazz, Country...
> It's all so narrowcast. >>

Can you give me an example of Heritage Rock? This discussion is
fascinating.

What are bands like Modest Mouse and Franz Ferdinand? That Franz
Ferdinand single is (according to a kroq dj) the #1 requested track
right now...and modest mouse's new album is #16 on billboard top 200.
Do people still call these bands Indie Rock? Or do they fit into
Hot AC? The indie-non-indie discussion is tired I know...but in terms
of airplay markets etc I am wondering how they are classified.

Also how does MTV, MTV2, and VH1 fit in? I find VH1 unwatchable...and
have ever since behind the music went away. That Sheryl Crow/Kid Rock
video I believe was the lowest point in television history. I still
feel funny even thinking about it.


Andrew

[EggHd]

<< Can you give me an example of Heritage Rock? This discussion is
fascinating. >>

Heritage Rock in LA is KLOS. They play mostly classic rock hits and spin some
new tracks from an old band maybe 7 times a week for a big push. Most of the
time you will hear Rush, The Eagles etc.

<< What are bands like Modest Mouse and Franz Ferdinand? That Franz
Ferdinand single is (according to a kroq dj) the #1 requested track
right now... >>

On KROQ (Alternative station) in LA Modest Mouse is #1 with 38 spins and Franz
Ferdinand is #2 with 36 spins. Being the #1 requested track is good for the
station to know the record is working with their audience.

On the National Alternative Chart Modest Mouse is #6 with 1720 spins last week.
Despite being the #2 record at one of the most watched Alternative stations
(KROQ), Franz Ferdinand is at 21 on the national chart with 904 spins.

Neither record is on Hot AC. Neither record is on Active Rock chart at this
point

<< Do people still call these bands Indie Rock? >>

I'd call them hits at this point. Modest Mouse sold 37K units last week and
38K the week before. Franz sold 20K this week and 19K the week before.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[EggHd]

<< Can you give me an example of Heritage Rock? This discussion is
fascinating. >>

Heritage Rock in LA is KLOS. They play mostly classic rock hits and spin some
new tracks from an old band maybe 7 times a week for a big push. Most of the
time you will hear Rush, The Eagles etc.

<< What are bands like Modest Mouse and Franz Ferdinand? That Franz
Ferdinand single is (according to a kroq dj) the #1 requested track
right now... >>

On KROQ (Alternative station) in LA Modest Mouse is #1 with 38 spins and Franz
Ferdinand is #2 with 36 spins. Being the #1 requested track is good for the
station to know the record is working with their audience.

On the National Alternative Chart Modest Mouse is #6 with 1720 spins last week.
Despite being the #2 record at one of the most watched Alternative stations
(KROQ), Franz Ferdinand is at 21 on the national chart with 904 spins.

Neither record is on Hot AC. Neither record is on Active Rock chart at this
point

<< Do people still call these bands Indie Rock? >>

I'd call them hits at this point. Modest Mouse sold 37K units last week and
38K the week before. Franz sold 20K this week and 19K the week before.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

[Roger W. Norman]

"Jim Kollens" > wrote in message
...
> Another great point. And this is actually the major problem with the USA
at
> this point: corporations. And one of the corporate problems in America
is the
> insurance industry. Now, the insurance industry doesn't like losing money
so
> they lobby the government and rile up people like MAD to put in laws that
> change people's behaviour. So, the population gets tired of getting DUI's
for
> drinking a couple of beers and getting hassled for smoking cigarettes and
> before you know it, they don't wanna go out anymore. Consequently, if
enough
> people don't go out to clubs, there is not enough clientelle to hire
bands. If
> bands are not hired, then musicians have to get day jobs to survive. If
> musicians have to get day jobs to survive , they can never achieve their
full
> potential as artists. The end result is that there is an abundance of
> sub-standard musicians and song-writers. Nor what does this do? Combine
this
> with your radio issue and a number of other factors and you have our
current
> situation. There are many factors but I maintain that there is an
atmosphere
> of paranoia in the USA that is stifling creativity. And this atmosphere
is
> being imposed rather than self-imposed. Things started becoming very
> noticeable around 1990: the good times were over. Strange, isn't it?
And
> so many people were cashing in on the stock market, but everyone I knew
seemed
> to be miserable. Ask Europeans or foreignors in general. They think
we're
> nuts, that we don't know how to have a good time and let loose. It wasn't
> always like this.

Whew! Been waiting for that one, haven't you Jim! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

> me: << > Ultimately, I
> > think that the real culprit in this whole mess is the fact that it is so
> > difficult to make a living being a full-time musician, and very little
to do
> >>
>
> Robert A. Ober replies: << And why is that?
>
> I have seen little discussion on this subject and/or the downloading
> issue placing the blame on RADIO and the greying of America. >>
>
> The greying of America, yes, excellent point. And, of course, the one you
> can't do anything about.
>
> << For a mass
> audience to know your music, you need airplay. With the consilidation
> of station ownership by ClearChannel and a few others and format
> consilidation, there is little chance that you will hear a variety of
> music unless you happen to have a independently minded public station as
> we do in Houston. KPFT plays a wide variety of styles but I realize
> most folks do not know about or have acess to such a station.
>
> Let's face it folks, commercial radio sucks!! Add that to the fact that
> the largest demographic group (baby boomers) is getting older and you
> have a negative growth situation for the music industry. I denounce
> stealing, but I think folks are putting way too much blame on the
> downloaders. The lemming media has allowed the RIAA to practically
> squeltch discussion of the real reasons. Perhaps the labels should look
> into station ownership if that is allowed. Otherwise, wider/deeper
> playlists and new formats should be encouraged. Any stations in your
> area play anything off the last Stones album? Probably not, yet the
> Stones and McCartney are bringing in big dollars on tour.
>
> Fix RADIO and you will fix the music industry.
> >>
>

[Jim Kollens]

>Whew! Been waiting for that one, haven't you Jim! <g>
>
>--
>
>
>Roger W. Norman
>SirMusic Studio

Actually, I've been talking about this for well over a decade. It is much more
significant than it appears on the surface.