what mic for simple pipe organ recording ?

[Malc]

I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
!).

What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.

I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.

any ideas would be useful

If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.

--
Thanks
Malcolm Maclean

[Richard Kuschel]

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs
>so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than
>a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
>I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
>pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
>price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
>any ideas would be useful
>
>If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
>and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.
>
>--
>Thanks
>Malcolm Maclean
>
>
>

One decent omni in the right place will be fine, two of them may be better

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs
>so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than
>a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
>I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
>pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
>price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
>any ideas would be useful
>
>If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
>and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.
>
>--
>Thanks
>Malcolm Maclean
>
>
>

One decent omni in the right place will be fine, two of them may be better

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Arny Krueger]

Malc wrote:

> If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large
> churches and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would
> also be useful.

Try a pair of Behringer ECM 8000 omnis. They will definately do justice to
the longer pipes, and pick up plenty of detail and sheen from the smaller
ones. Price is right, too!

[Arny Krueger]

Malc wrote:

> If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large
> churches and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would
> also be useful.

Try a pair of Behringer ECM 8000 omnis. They will definately do justice to
the longer pipes, and pick up plenty of detail and sheen from the smaller
ones. Price is right, too!

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 24 May 2004 20:25:47 -0400, Malc wrote
(in message >):

> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
> I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
> !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
> not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
> floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
> or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
> pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
> price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
> any ideas would be useful
>
> If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
> and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.
>
> --
> Thanks
> Malcolm Maclean
>
>

How 'bout a pair of them behringer ecm 8000 omnis in coincident stereo.
Stand some place where it sounds good and hit RECORD


Regards,

Ty Ford

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 24 May 2004 20:25:47 -0400, Malc wrote
(in message >):

> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
> I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
> !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
> not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
> floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
> or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
> pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
> price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
> any ideas would be useful
>
> If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
> and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.
>
> --
> Thanks
> Malcolm Maclean
>
>

How 'bout a pair of them behringer ecm 8000 omnis in coincident stereo.
Stand some place where it sounds good and hit RECORD


Regards,

Ty Ford

[normanstrong]

"Malc" > wrote in message
...
> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
organs so
> I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer
environment
> !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind
I do
> not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other
than a
> floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if
possible
> or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not
sure what
> pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast
quality or
> price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates
hi-fi.
>
> any ideas would be useful

If you're recording in an empty church, I'd advise a pair of PZMs on
the floor. That's what I use. If I have time to set up a mixer, I
add a third PZM to eliminate the "hole-in-the-middle".

Once you add a choir and an audience, everything changes. You now
have to use directional mikes, and raise them quite high in the air.
I use a pair of AKG C451 in ORTF, raised well above the choir.

Norm Strong

[normanstrong]

"Malc" > wrote in message
...
> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
organs so
> I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer
environment
> !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind
I do
> not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other
than a
> floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if
possible
> or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not
sure what
> pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast
quality or
> price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates
hi-fi.
>
> any ideas would be useful

If you're recording in an empty church, I'd advise a pair of PZMs on
the floor. That's what I use. If I have time to set up a mixer, I
add a third PZM to eliminate the "hole-in-the-middle".

Once you add a choir and an audience, everything changes. You now
have to use directional mikes, and raise them quite high in the air.
I use a pair of AKG C451 in ORTF, raised well above the choir.

Norm Strong

[Mike Rivers]

In article ews.com> writes:

> How 'bout a pair of them behringer ecm 8000 omnis in coincident stereo.
> Stand some place where it sounds good and hit RECORD

Coincident omnis don't give you very much in the way of stereo, but
spaced omnis work pretty well for organ recording.

I know some people here are interested in recording nature sounds.
Although I've recorded my cicadas, in general this isn't my thing, but
last night our local AES section had a presentation by the folks who
do the NPR/National Geographic show "Radio Expeditions." They had some
very impressive recordings made with omni mics spaced one to two feet
apart. Comb filtering isn't easy to detect when you're listening to
elephants or bees, but neither did it seem to present them any
problems in production, even when remixing for surround.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article ews.com> writes:

> How 'bout a pair of them behringer ecm 8000 omnis in coincident stereo.
> Stand some place where it sounds good and hit RECORD

Coincident omnis don't give you very much in the way of stereo, but
spaced omnis work pretty well for organ recording.

I know some people here are interested in recording nature sounds.
Although I've recorded my cicadas, in general this isn't my thing, but
last night our local AES section had a presentation by the folks who
do the NPR/National Geographic show "Radio Expeditions." They had some
very impressive recordings made with omni mics spaced one to two feet
apart. Comb filtering isn't easy to detect when you're listening to
elephants or bees, but neither did it seem to present them any
problems in production, even when remixing for surround.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article ews.com> writes:

> How 'bout a pair of them behringer ecm 8000 omnis in coincident stereo.
> Stand some place where it sounds good and hit RECORD

Coincident omnis don't give you very much in the way of stereo, but
spaced omnis work pretty well for organ recording.

I know some people here are interested in recording nature sounds.
Although I've recorded my cicadas, in general this isn't my thing, but
last night our local AES section had a presentation by the folks who
do the NPR/National Geographic show "Radio Expeditions." They had some
very impressive recordings made with omni mics spaced one to two feet
apart. Comb filtering isn't easy to detect when you're listening to
elephants or bees, but neither did it seem to present them any
problems in production, even when remixing for surround.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[locosoundman]

I've used the Oktava MK012's on pipe organs with nice results. Get a
15' stand and put them on a T-Bar in a pseudo ORTF postion. If you
can afford it, use four - 2 for the main pair and then 2 flanking -
you'll get a good sound with good mic position.

[locosoundman]

I've used the Oktava MK012's on pipe organs with nice results. Get a
15' stand and put them on a T-Bar in a pseudo ORTF postion. If you
can afford it, use four - 2 for the main pair and then 2 flanking -
you'll get a good sound with good mic position.

[locosoundman]

I've used the Oktava MK012's on pipe organs with nice results. Get a
15' stand and put them on a T-Bar in a pseudo ORTF postion. If you
can afford it, use four - 2 for the main pair and then 2 flanking -
you'll get a good sound with good mic position.

[Geoley]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 00:25:47 +0000 (UTC), "Malc"
> wrote:

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
>I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
>pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
>price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
>any ideas would be useful
>
>If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
>and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.


I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

Geoley

[Geoley]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 00:25:47 +0000 (UTC), "Malc"
> wrote:

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
>I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
>pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
>price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
>any ideas would be useful
>
>If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
>and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.


I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

Geoley

[Geoley]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 00:25:47 +0000 (UTC), "Malc"
> wrote:

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
>I assume I should be looking a 1 or 2 condensor mics but I am not sure what
>pickup pattern they should be. I am not looking for broadcast quality or
>price but something that will sound ok on a low-mid priced separates hi-fi.
>
>any ideas would be useful
>
>If you also have any ideas for recording organ and choir in large churches
>and cathedrals with the minimum of equipment, that would also be useful.


I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

Geoley

[Richard Kuschel]

>f you're recording in an empty church, I'd advise a pair of PZMs on
>the floor. That's what I use. If I have time to set up a mixer, I
>add a third PZM to eliminate the "hole-in-the-middle".
>
>Once you add a choir and an audience, everything changes. You now
>have to use directional mikes, and raise them quite high in the air.
>I use a pair of AKG C451 in ORTF, raised well above the choir.
>
>Norm Strong
>
>

Baloney!

A pair of onmis on a Jecklin in a decent room sound far better on choir and
organ then a multitude on directional microphones.

The low end is richer and the blend is better.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>f you're recording in an empty church, I'd advise a pair of PZMs on
>the floor. That's what I use. If I have time to set up a mixer, I
>add a third PZM to eliminate the "hole-in-the-middle".
>
>Once you add a choir and an audience, everything changes. You now
>have to use directional mikes, and raise them quite high in the air.
>I use a pair of AKG C451 in ORTF, raised well above the choir.
>
>Norm Strong
>
>

Baloney!

A pair of onmis on a Jecklin in a decent room sound far better on choir and
organ then a multitude on directional microphones.

The low end is richer and the blend is better.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Richard Kuschel]

>f you're recording in an empty church, I'd advise a pair of PZMs on
>the floor. That's what I use. If I have time to set up a mixer, I
>add a third PZM to eliminate the "hole-in-the-middle".
>
>Once you add a choir and an audience, everything changes. You now
>have to use directional mikes, and raise them quite high in the air.
>I use a pair of AKG C451 in ORTF, raised well above the choir.
>
>Norm Strong
>
>

Baloney!

A pair of onmis on a Jecklin in a decent room sound far better on choir and
organ then a multitude on directional microphones.

The low end is richer and the blend is better.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Lars Farm]

Geoley > wrote:

> I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
> a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
> the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
> plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ
where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
height not an issue?

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se

[Lars Farm]

Geoley > wrote:

> I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
> a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
> the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
> plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ
where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
height not an issue?

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se

[Lars Farm]

Geoley > wrote:

> I use a pair of Neumann KMS 183 mics in my home brew Jecklin Disk on
> a 12ft boom facing the pipework. When setting up I will walk around in
> the hall while the organist is playing to find a "sweet spot" and then
> plant the mics at that location. I found that this works well for me.

What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ
where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
height not an issue?

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se

[xy]

just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

[xy]

just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

[xy]

just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

[Peter Larsen]

Lars Farm wrote:

> What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
> is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
> a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
> close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ

This depends on mic directivity. Organs are very much single pair stuff,
and by definition an organ is an ensemble rather than a single
instrument.

> where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
> height not an issue?

Height is also, as always, an issue when adjusting clarity of image,
perspective and tonal balance.

> Lars


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Lars Farm wrote:

> What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
> is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
> a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
> close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ

This depends on mic directivity. Organs are very much single pair stuff,
and by definition an organ is an ensemble rather than a single
instrument.

> where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
> height not an issue?

Height is also, as always, an issue when adjusting clarity of image,
perspective and tonal balance.

> Lars


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Lars Farm wrote:

> What would you consider a good starting point for that walk-around? That
> is, would you search for the "sweet spot" up at the organ balcony, where
> a 12-15' stand would bring the mikes someway up on the pipes. Fairly
> close to the organ (5-10m) or down in the church far from the organ

This depends on mic directivity. Organs are very much single pair stuff,
and by definition an organ is an ensemble rather than a single
instrument.

> where youd need a monster stand to reach up to the organ level? Or is
> height not an issue?

Height is also, as always, an issue when adjusting clarity of image,
perspective and tonal balance.

> Lars


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Arny Krueger]

xy wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

[Arny Krueger]

xy wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

[Arny Krueger]

xy wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
:

> xy wrote:
>
>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
:

> xy wrote:
>
>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
:

> xy wrote:
>
>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

[Arny Krueger]

Carey Carlan wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
> :
>
>> xy wrote:
>>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

...or some kind of a bong?

[Arny Krueger]

Carey Carlan wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
> :
>
>> xy wrote:
>>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

...or some kind of a bong?

[Arny Krueger]

Carey Carlan wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in news:McKdnasLQsNkvCrdRVn-
> :
>
>> xy wrote:
>>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Maybe he thought "pipe" meant a funny kind of "toob".

...or some kind of a bong?

[David Satz]

"Malc" wrote:

> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
> organs so I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a
> warmer environment !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required [ ... ] ?

I agree with the folks who've suggested using omnidirectional microphones
for this. They can reproduce the lowest frequencies, and the fact that
they won't convey an accurate impression of "which pipe is exactly where"
is actually a plus in this situation. Hardly anyone except an organ
builder would _want_ to localize the sound of a particular organ pipe
very specifically when listening to a recording.

In addition, omnidirectional microphones are relatively uncritical as to
placement--you won't have to fish around for hours trying to find the one
and only best place to put them. I mean, it matters where they go, but
a little practice should teach you most of what you need to know.

The thing is, with omnidirectional microphones you either need to put
some space between them (a foot or two at least) and/or an acoustically
"opaque" (insulating) object, in order to get an appealing stereo effect.
That's what people mean when they talk about Jecklin plates and the like.
But I'm glad that someone pointed out that the microphones don't need
to be very far apart--this seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people
in the U.S., for some reason, as opposed to Europe where "small A/B"
(i.e. microphones spaced apart, but not widely) is a well known technique
with distinct advantages of its own. So conceivably you could place two
microphones on a single stand, using some kind of a wide "t-bar" at the
top of the stand.

Please note that not all omnidirectional microphones are at all alike.
I'm talking about condenser microphones which (sorry to get technical,
but ...) function as pressure transducers, since they're the only kind
with the full low-frequency response that's such a plus in this type of
recording.

[David Satz]

"Malc" wrote:

> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
> organs so I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a
> warmer environment !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required [ ... ] ?

I agree with the folks who've suggested using omnidirectional microphones
for this. They can reproduce the lowest frequencies, and the fact that
they won't convey an accurate impression of "which pipe is exactly where"
is actually a plus in this situation. Hardly anyone except an organ
builder would _want_ to localize the sound of a particular organ pipe
very specifically when listening to a recording.

In addition, omnidirectional microphones are relatively uncritical as to
placement--you won't have to fish around for hours trying to find the one
and only best place to put them. I mean, it matters where they go, but
a little practice should teach you most of what you need to know.

The thing is, with omnidirectional microphones you either need to put
some space between them (a foot or two at least) and/or an acoustically
"opaque" (insulating) object, in order to get an appealing stereo effect.
That's what people mean when they talk about Jecklin plates and the like.
But I'm glad that someone pointed out that the microphones don't need
to be very far apart--this seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people
in the U.S., for some reason, as opposed to Europe where "small A/B"
(i.e. microphones spaced apart, but not widely) is a well known technique
with distinct advantages of its own. So conceivably you could place two
microphones on a single stand, using some kind of a wide "t-bar" at the
top of the stand.

Please note that not all omnidirectional microphones are at all alike.
I'm talking about condenser microphones which (sorry to get technical,
but ...) function as pressure transducers, since they're the only kind
with the full low-frequency response that's such a plus in this type of
recording.

[David Satz]

"Malc" wrote:

> I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
> organs so I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a
> warmer environment !).
>
> What would you suggest is the minimum setup required [ ... ] ?

I agree with the folks who've suggested using omnidirectional microphones
for this. They can reproduce the lowest frequencies, and the fact that
they won't convey an accurate impression of "which pipe is exactly where"
is actually a plus in this situation. Hardly anyone except an organ
builder would _want_ to localize the sound of a particular organ pipe
very specifically when listening to a recording.

In addition, omnidirectional microphones are relatively uncritical as to
placement--you won't have to fish around for hours trying to find the one
and only best place to put them. I mean, it matters where they go, but
a little practice should teach you most of what you need to know.

The thing is, with omnidirectional microphones you either need to put
some space between them (a foot or two at least) and/or an acoustically
"opaque" (insulating) object, in order to get an appealing stereo effect.
That's what people mean when they talk about Jecklin plates and the like.
But I'm glad that someone pointed out that the microphones don't need
to be very far apart--this seems to be misunderstood by a lot of people
in the U.S., for some reason, as opposed to Europe where "small A/B"
(i.e. microphones spaced apart, but not widely) is a well known technique
with distinct advantages of its own. So conceivably you could place two
microphones on a single stand, using some kind of a wide "t-bar" at the
top of the stand.

Please note that not all omnidirectional microphones are at all alike.
I'm talking about condenser microphones which (sorry to get technical,
but ...) function as pressure transducers, since they're the only kind
with the full low-frequency response that's such a plus in this type of
recording.

[Peter Larsen]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> xy wrote:

>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

It is a somewhat controversial way of expanding an organ that neeeds to
be able to offer more musical options. I think I put some web links in
the liner text ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> xy wrote:

>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

It is a somewhat controversial way of expanding an organ that neeeds to
be able to offer more musical options. I think I put some web links in
the liner text ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> xy wrote:

>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone

> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?

Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

It is a somewhat controversial way of expanding an organ that neeeds to
be able to offer more musical options. I think I put some web links in
the liner text ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Carey Carlan]

Peter Larsen > wrote in
:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> xy wrote:
>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
> rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
> and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

The organ in my contribution also has an "electronic" 32' stop. I would no
more mic that speaker than I would put a mic up in the (same) chamber to
record the pipes "direct sound".

[Carey Carlan]

Peter Larsen > wrote in
:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> xy wrote:
>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
> rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
> and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

The organ in my contribution also has an "electronic" 32' stop. I would no
more mic that speaker than I would put a mic up in the (same) chamber to
record the pipes "direct sound".

[Carey Carlan]

Peter Larsen > wrote in
:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> xy wrote:
>
>>> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone
>
>> Did you grasp the words "pipe organ" in the post title?
>
> Allow me to remind the audience of my constribution to the most recent
> rap cd: a recording of a pipe organ that is augmented with Lowther PM2's
> and Beyma bass units, both in transmission lines.

The organ in my contribution also has an "electronic" 32' stop. I would no
more mic that speaker than I would put a mic up in the (same) chamber to
record the pipes "direct sound".

[david]

In article >, xy
> wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone



Best post in weeks.

If I were slugging a cuppa joe, it woulda went all over my monitor.






David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[david]

In article >, xy
> wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone



Best post in weeks.

If I were slugging a cuppa joe, it woulda went all over my monitor.






David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[david]

In article >, xy
> wrote:

> just put a '57 on the edge of the speaker cone



Best post in weeks.

If I were slugging a cuppa joe, it woulda went all over my monitor.






David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

[Len Moskowitz]

Malc > wrote:

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.

A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.

Our Sampler Disc's first track is a recording of the noted organist
James Welch. It was recorded at a Palo Alto church by Romain Kang.
Romain used our CS Binaural mic set and a portable DAT recorder. See
the Sampler Disc notes for more details:

http://www.core-sound.com/sampler

It's an impressive recording.

I'd stay away from current MiniDisc recorders unless your budget is
really tight. With its ATRAC compression and very much
less-than-professional quality mic pre-amps, original MD can easily be
improved on.

Sony will soon be releasing a new generation of MD recorders (Hi-MD)
that will be able to record linearly (without ATRAC compression). At
first they will be costly and they won't offer enough value to cause me
to recommend them over the hard disk recorders mentioned above. I don't
expect that their mic pre-amps will be wonderufl -- I hope my
expectations are wrong.

Portable DAT (quickly going obsolete), portable hard disk recorders
(e.g., Nomad Jukebox 3, iRiver iHP-120), or our PDAudio system would be
better choices.



--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[Len Moskowitz]

Malc > wrote:

>I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe organs so
>I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer environment
>!).
>
>What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in mind I do
>not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other than a
>floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if possible
>or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.

A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.

Our Sampler Disc's first track is a recording of the noted organist
James Welch. It was recorded at a Palo Alto church by Romain Kang.
Romain used our CS Binaural mic set and a portable DAT recorder. See
the Sampler Disc notes for more details:

http://www.core-sound.com/sampler

It's an impressive recording.

I'd stay away from current MiniDisc recorders unless your budget is
really tight. With its ATRAC compression and very much
less-than-professional quality mic pre-amps, original MD can easily be
improved on.

Sony will soon be releasing a new generation of MD recorders (Hi-MD)
that will be able to record linearly (without ATRAC compression). At
first they will be costly and they won't offer enough value to cause me
to recommend them over the hard disk recorders mentioned above. I don't
expect that their mic pre-amps will be wonderufl -- I hope my
expectations are wrong.

Portable DAT (quickly going obsolete), portable hard disk recorders
(e.g., Nomad Jukebox 3, iRiver iHP-120), or our PDAudio system would be
better choices.



--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[normanstrong]

"Len Moskowitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> Malc > wrote:
>
> >I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
organs so
> >I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer
environment
> >!).
> >
> >What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in
mind I do
> >not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other
than a
> >floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if
possible
> >or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.

This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair of
PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike inputs
on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and the
cost would be right next door to free.

Norm Strong

[normanstrong]

"Len Moskowitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> Malc > wrote:
>
> >I would like to record some of my practice sessions on Church pipe
organs so
> >I can criticise myself in the cold light of day (and a warmer
environment
> >!).
> >
> >What would you suggest is the minimum setup required bearing in
mind I do
> >not normally have the ability to position a mic with anything other
than a
> >floor stand. I propose recording to mini-disc, either directly if
possible
> >or via a small mixer or even direct to laptop.
>
> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.

This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair of
PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike inputs
on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and the
cost would be right next door to free.

Norm Strong

[Carey Carlan]

"normanstrong" > wrote in
news:e1Kvc.40584$eY2.8844@attbi_s02:

>> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.
>
> This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair of
> PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike inputs
> on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and the
> cost would be right next door to free.

Norm, you get real close to a jecklin design by velcroing your PZM's to
both sides of a piece of plywood and leaning it against a chair. Still
almost free.

[Carey Carlan]

"normanstrong" > wrote in
news:e1Kvc.40584$eY2.8844@attbi_s02:

>> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.
>
> This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair of
> PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike inputs
> on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and the
> cost would be right next door to free.

Norm, you get real close to a jecklin design by velcroing your PZM's to
both sides of a piece of plywood and leaning it against a chair. Still
almost free.

[normanstrong]

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 203...
> "normanstrong" > wrote in
> news:e1Kvc.40584$eY2.8844@attbi_s02:
>
> >> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.
> >
> > This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair
of
> > PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike
inputs
> > on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and
the
> > cost would be right next door to free.
>
> Norm, you get real close to a jecklin design by velcroing your PZM's
to
> both sides of a piece of plywood and leaning it against a chair.
Still
> almost free.

I like that idea; think I'll try it. The big question is, how bid
does the piece of plywood have to be to avoid "shelving" of the
frequency response at the low end?

Norm

[normanstrong]

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 203...
> "normanstrong" > wrote in
> news:e1Kvc.40584$eY2.8844@attbi_s02:
>
> >> A pair of spaced omnis or a pair of omnis on a Jecklin Disk.
> >
> > This is a good idea, but it requires a mike stand. I use a pair
of
> > PZM's on the floor and an old cassette recorder that has mike
inputs
> > on it. This would be more than adequate for your purposes, and
the
> > cost would be right next door to free.
>
> Norm, you get real close to a jecklin design by velcroing your PZM's
to
> both sides of a piece of plywood and leaning it against a chair.
Still
> almost free.

I like that idea; think I'll try it. The big question is, how bid
does the piece of plywood have to be to avoid "shelving" of the
frequency response at the low end?

Norm