Proper Volume levels - Cassete tape output

[Robotnik]

Hi, first I'm new here.

I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio in
digital form, and then put them on CD's.

I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough on
the digital recordings?

Thanks alot,

Nic

[William Sommerwerck]

> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage
> of Full volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be
> loud enough on the digital recordings?

Set the "nob" to 11.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist...

Almost every recording system, analog or digital, has some sort of display that
shows the recording level. If the sound card on your computer does not provide
this, you'll just have to experiment to find the highest recording level at
which the peaks aren't distorted.

[William Sommerwerck]

> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage
> of Full volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be
> loud enough on the digital recordings?

Set the "nob" to 11.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist...

Almost every recording system, analog or digital, has some sort of display that
shows the recording level. If the sound card on your computer does not provide
this, you'll just have to experiment to find the highest recording level at
which the peaks aren't distorted.

[Kendall]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, first I'm new here.
>
> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio
in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.
>
> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough
on
> the digital recordings?

If you are referring to the volume knob on the front of the receiver, it
shouldn't make any difference on the volume coming into the PC, unless you
have something wired up in a very unconventional way. You should be coming
out of the receiver through a "line out" level output, like the tape outputs
or something, and those are not affected by the volume knob on the receiver.
This line level signal would connect to the "line in" jacks on your
computer. You then set the level for your digital files using the software
on the computer.

Kendall


>
> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic
>
>

[Kendall]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, first I'm new here.
>
> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio
in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.
>
> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough
on
> the digital recordings?

If you are referring to the volume knob on the front of the receiver, it
shouldn't make any difference on the volume coming into the PC, unless you
have something wired up in a very unconventional way. You should be coming
out of the receiver through a "line out" level output, like the tape outputs
or something, and those are not affected by the volume knob on the receiver.
This line level signal would connect to the "line in" jacks on your
computer. You then set the level for your digital files using the software
on the computer.

Kendall


>
> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic
>
>

[Kendall]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> To my knowledge, there is not a line out output, just a headphone jack.
>
> This is a funky "component" audio system, the Am/Fm receiver, tape player,
> equalizer and amplifer are all in the same box, and it is shaped to APPEAR
> component. The only separate componets are the Disc changer, and the
> phonograph player. And any auxilery devices.

Ah. Well that is more difficult, and you won't likely end up with a
pleasing... no, scratch that, you most likely won't end up with an
*accurate* copy of whatever you are trying to record. Your headphone
output, even with the EQ sliders set "flat" will not likely be putting out
"flat" response. Now, you can go ahead and try a couple, using the advice
Mr. Sommerwerck posted, which I'll copy and paste here:

<begin quote>

Almost every recording system, analog or digital, has some sort of display
that
shows the recording level. If the sound card on your computer does not
provide
this, you'll just have to experiment to find the highest recording level at
which the peaks aren't distorted.

<end quote>

Doing this, you may get a result that you like, but it won't be "accurate".
Now, if you'd rather have "pleasing" rather than "accurate", then continue
with the rest of your collection, and don't worry about it. The most
important consideration then would be getting a "healthy" signal according
to your software's input meters without clipping (which hopefully your
software will indicate).

Good luck!

Kendall

[Kendall]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> To my knowledge, there is not a line out output, just a headphone jack.
>
> This is a funky "component" audio system, the Am/Fm receiver, tape player,
> equalizer and amplifer are all in the same box, and it is shaped to APPEAR
> component. The only separate componets are the Disc changer, and the
> phonograph player. And any auxilery devices.

Ah. Well that is more difficult, and you won't likely end up with a
pleasing... no, scratch that, you most likely won't end up with an
*accurate* copy of whatever you are trying to record. Your headphone
output, even with the EQ sliders set "flat" will not likely be putting out
"flat" response. Now, you can go ahead and try a couple, using the advice
Mr. Sommerwerck posted, which I'll copy and paste here:

<begin quote>

Almost every recording system, analog or digital, has some sort of display
that
shows the recording level. If the sound card on your computer does not
provide
this, you'll just have to experiment to find the highest recording level at
which the peaks aren't distorted.

<end quote>

Doing this, you may get a result that you like, but it won't be "accurate".
Now, if you'd rather have "pleasing" rather than "accurate", then continue
with the rest of your collection, and don't worry about it. The most
important consideration then would be getting a "healthy" signal according
to your software's input meters without clipping (which hopefully your
software will indicate).

Good luck!

Kendall

[Peter Larsen]

Robotnik wrote:

> Hi, first I'm new here.

> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.

> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough on
> the digital recordings?

Volume control in the mid position, assuming that inserting the
headphone plug turns the loudspeakers off. You will have to listen to
determine whether this clips the input of your sound card, if so, then
reduce the level.

> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

Robotnik wrote:

> Hi, first I'm new here.

> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.

> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough on
> the digital recordings?

Volume control in the mid position, assuming that inserting the
headphone plug turns the loudspeakers off. You will have to listen to
determine whether this clips the input of your sound card, if so, then
reduce the level.

> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> ... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough on
> the digital recordings?

First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
play at the same volume as commercial CD, so don't worry about that.
Use the playback volume control when you play the CD if you want it
louder.

Watch the meters in your recording program and adjust the volume that
you're feeding the sound card so they peak just a few dB below full
scale. That's as good as you can do.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> ... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough on
> the digital recordings?

First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
play at the same volume as commercial CD, so don't worry about that.
Use the playback volume control when you play the CD if you want it
louder.

Watch the meters in your recording program and adjust the volume that
you're feeding the sound card so they peak just a few dB below full
scale. That's as good as you can do.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> This is a funky "component" audio system, the Am/Fm receiver, tape player,
> equalizer and amplifer are all in the same box, and it is shaped to APPEAR
> component.

In that case, the volume control will affect the signal level coming
from the headphone jack. Sometimes the headphone amplifier on those
cheap and funky integrated units has an equalization curve applied
that increases the bass in the headphones. If yours is like this and
there isn't a switch to defeat it (look for something marked "Super
Bass" or "Loudness") then your recordings will have this bass boost as
well. You may be able to adjust equalization with your computer
program to compensate, but you'll have to do that by ear. And if you
only have that same system for playing back the CDs, what you hear
won't be very accurate.

So just try it and see what you get. The good news is that by using
the headphone jack to feed the computer sound card, you will be able
to adjust the record level going into the computer. You may not be
able to get it high enough to reach peak on the meters (with or
without distortion coming from your tape player) but you will be able
to turn it down if you find that the level indicated on the meters is
too high. In many cases, neither the output level of the source nor
the input sensitivity of the sound card are adjustable and you're
stuck with the level you get and have to make any adjustments after
the recording.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> This is a funky "component" audio system, the Am/Fm receiver, tape player,
> equalizer and amplifer are all in the same box, and it is shaped to APPEAR
> component.

In that case, the volume control will affect the signal level coming
from the headphone jack. Sometimes the headphone amplifier on those
cheap and funky integrated units has an equalization curve applied
that increases the bass in the headphones. If yours is like this and
there isn't a switch to defeat it (look for something marked "Super
Bass" or "Loudness") then your recordings will have this bass boost as
well. You may be able to adjust equalization with your computer
program to compensate, but you'll have to do that by ear. And if you
only have that same system for playing back the CDs, what you hear
won't be very accurate.

So just try it and see what you get. The good news is that by using
the headphone jack to feed the computer sound card, you will be able
to adjust the record level going into the computer. You may not be
able to get it high enough to reach peak on the meters (with or
without distortion coming from your tape player) but you will be able
to turn it down if you find that the level indicated on the meters is
too high. In many cases, neither the output level of the source nor
the input sensitivity of the sound card are adjustable and you're
stuck with the level you get and have to make any adjustments after
the recording.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Ty Ford]

Hi,

This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.

Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE card
and SCSI card.

Present bid $1800.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Ty Ford]

Hi,

This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.

Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE card
and SCSI card.

Present bid $1800.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Kendall]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
> and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.
>
> Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE card
> and SCSI card.
>
> Present bid $1800.


Methinks somebody accidentally got this in the wrong thread....

Kendall


>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
>

[Kendall]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
> and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.
>
> Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE card
> and SCSI card.
>
> Present bid $1800.


Methinks somebody accidentally got this in the wrong thread....

Kendall


>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
>

[Robotnik]

Me thinks so too.

Anyway, like you were saying, Kendall, Although a flat, accurate recording
is what I want, a healty non distorted one is still better than nothing.

Maybe I need to find some other external tape deck. It might have a flat
out on the rear... I'll check later... but right now the cabinet is against
a wall, at the moment (sunday afternoon) I'm too lazy to drag it back enough
to look.

Nic

"Kendall" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Ty Ford" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
> > and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.
> >
> > Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE
card
> > and SCSI card.
> >
> > Present bid $1800.
>
>
> Methinks somebody accidentally got this in the wrong thread....
>
> Kendall
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ty Ford
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robotnik]

Me thinks so too.

Anyway, like you were saying, Kendall, Although a flat, accurate recording
is what I want, a healty non distorted one is still better than nothing.

Maybe I need to find some other external tape deck. It might have a flat
out on the rear... I'll check later... but right now the cabinet is against
a wall, at the moment (sunday afternoon) I'm too lazy to drag it back enough
to look.

Nic

"Kendall" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Ty Ford" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > This has been my personal machine.If you know anyone who does short form
> > and/or radio spots. They probably know about the audicy.
> >
> > Mine has about 9 hours of storage, the digital AND analog I/Os, SMPTE
card
> > and SCSI card.
> >
> > Present bid $1800.
>
>
> Methinks somebody accidentally got this in the wrong thread....
>
> Kendall
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ty Ford
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Robotnik]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085277928k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
[...]
> First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]

Why not?

[Robotnik]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085277928k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
[...]
> First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]

Why not?

[reqluq]

ummm what software are you using to record the audio in the computer? or was
this answered already?

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1085277928k@trad...
> >
> > In article >
> writes:
> [...]
> > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
> Why not?
>
>

[reqluq]

ummm what software are you using to record the audio in the computer? or was
this answered already?

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1085277928k@trad...
> >
> > In article >
> writes:
> [...]
> > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
> Why not?
>
>

[Robotnik]

Nope, wasn't answered yet.

I have a couple of programs, one is "Creative Wave Studio," which came with
my sound blaster live sound card about 4 years ago.

The other is GoldWave 5, the trial version.

I'm pretty sure that's all I have... I suppose I could use Ulead Video
studio, and just not record video but....that would be nearly pointless I
think.

Nic


"reqluq" > wrote in message
...
> ummm what software are you using to record the audio in the computer? or
was
> this answered already?
>
> "Robotnik" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> > news:znr1085277928k@trad...
> > >
> > > In article >
> > writes:
> > [...]
> > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> >
>
>

[Robotnik]

Nope, wasn't answered yet.

I have a couple of programs, one is "Creative Wave Studio," which came with
my sound blaster live sound card about 4 years ago.

The other is GoldWave 5, the trial version.

I'm pretty sure that's all I have... I suppose I could use Ulead Video
studio, and just not record video but....that would be nearly pointless I
think.

Nic


"reqluq" > wrote in message
...
> ummm what software are you using to record the audio in the computer? or
was
> this answered already?
>
> "Robotnik" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> > news:znr1085277928k@trad...
> > >
> > > In article >
> > writes:
> > [...]
> > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> >
>
>

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
> Why not?

See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
> Why not?

See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Michael R. Kesti]

Robotnik wrote:

>"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>news:znr1085277928k@trad...
>>
>> In article >
writes:
>[...]
>> First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
>> play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
>Why not?

Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

I intend no insult by this statement and base it on the nature of the
questions you have asked in this thread.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Michael R. Kesti]

Robotnik wrote:

>"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>news:znr1085277928k@trad...
>>
>> In article >
writes:
>[...]
>> First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
>> play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
>
>Why not?

Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

I intend no insult by this statement and base it on the nature of the
questions you have asked in this thread.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Roger W. Norman]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.
>
> I intend no insult by this statement and base it on the nature of the
> questions you have asked in this thread.

Yeah, but you are still being a little hard on the Beaver, aren't you Ward?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

[Roger W. Norman]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.
>
> I intend no insult by this statement and base it on the nature of the
> questions you have asked in this thread.

Yeah, but you are still being a little hard on the Beaver, aren't you Ward?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

[Peter Larsen]

"Michael R. Kesti" wrote:

> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

Is this always true .... O;-)

> Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[Peter Larsen]

"Michael R. Kesti" wrote:

> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

Is this always true .... O;-)

> Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

[TonyP]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085358361k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> >
> > Why not?
>
> See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."

And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
to make it sound like that of course :-)

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085358361k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> >
> > Why not?
>
> See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."

And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
to make it sound like that of course :-)

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's grossly
clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.
So are my clients :-)
(Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
available to everybody these days)

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's grossly
clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.
So are my clients :-)
(Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
available to everybody these days)

TonyP.

[Arny Krueger]

TonyP wrote:
> "Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
>> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
>> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

> I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's
> grossly clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.

IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it does
take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen dones.

> So are my clients :-)
> (Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
> available to everybody these days)

Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

[Arny Krueger]

TonyP wrote:
> "Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
>> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
>> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.

> I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's
> grossly clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.

IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it does
take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen dones.

> So are my clients :-)
> (Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
> available to everybody these days)

Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

[Robotnik]

The only software I have that could do that is Goldwave 5. I haven't really
messed with compression much, so I'm not sure how well it actually works.
Maybe I'll give that a try... if it does, I may re-record all this.

Nic

"TonyP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1085358361k@trad...
> >
> > In article >
> writes:
> >
> > > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> > >
> > > Why not?
> >
> > See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."
>
> And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
> peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
> to make it sound like that of course :-)
>
> TonyP.
>
>

[Robotnik]

The only software I have that could do that is Goldwave 5. I haven't really
messed with compression much, so I'm not sure how well it actually works.
Maybe I'll give that a try... if it does, I may re-record all this.

Nic

"TonyP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1085358361k@trad...
> >
> > In article >
> writes:
> >
> > > > First off, you'll never make recordings that will give you CDs that
> > > > play at the same volume as commercial CD[...]
> > >
> > > Why not?
> >
> > See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."
>
> And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
> peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
> to make it sound like that of course :-)
>
> TonyP.
>
>

[Michael R. Kesti]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>TonyP wrote:
>> "Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
>>> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
>>> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.
>
>> I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's
>> grossly clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.
>
>IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it does
>take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen dones.

Thanks, Arny. I expected somebody would comment as did TonyP and your
response expresses exactly what I intended.

>> So are my clients :-)
>> (Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
>> available to everybody these days)
>
>Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
>hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

And that, of course, is the part that requires talent and skill.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[Michael R. Kesti]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>TonyP wrote:
>> "Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Because the audio data on commercial CDs are processed for maximum
>>> perceived loudness using equipment you probably haven't yet dreamed
>>> about operated by people whose talents and skills far exceed yours.
>
>> I'm glad I don't have the "talent" to compress everything until it's
>> grossly clipped with a DR of < 6dB, like many commercial recordings.
>
>IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it does
>take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen dones.

Thanks, Arny. I expected somebody would comment as did TonyP and your
response expresses exactly what I intended.

>> So are my clients :-)
>> (Actually I could if I really wanted to, and the software is readily
>> available to everybody these days)
>
>Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
>hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

And that, of course, is the part that requires talent and skill.

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
| - The Who, Bargain

[TonyP]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> >IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it
does
> >take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen
dones.

I'm willing to bet you would prefer the sound before that last bit of
over-compression until its well and truly clipped syndrome. Not all of it
pop/40 stuff either.
I will agree that I am sometimes amazed it doesn't sound a lot worse than it
does when I see all the flat tops in a wave editor.
I guess someone likes it, but I'm not sure why. I have sometimes used
declipping tools on commercial recordings, and been happier with the result.
Many are too far gone to even do that.

> >Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
> >hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

> And that, of course, is the part that requires talent and skill.

Real skill is knowing how to get a better sound without the clipping IMO.

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Michael R. Kesti" > wrote in message
...
> >IME it doesn't take a lot of talent to do the raw compressing, but it
does
> >take talent to juggle the music so that it works as well as it ofen
dones.

I'm willing to bet you would prefer the sound before that last bit of
over-compression until its well and truly clipped syndrome. Not all of it
pop/40 stuff either.
I will agree that I am sometimes amazed it doesn't sound a lot worse than it
does when I see all the flat tops in a wave editor.
I guess someone likes it, but I'm not sure why. I have sometimes used
declipping tools on commercial recordings, and been happier with the result.
Many are too far gone to even do that.

> >Right, but we have to give some of these devils their due - some of the
> >hypercompressed stuff still has some musical values intact.

> And that, of course, is the part that requires talent and skill.

Real skill is knowing how to get a better sound without the clipping IMO.

TonyP.

[Paul Stamler]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> The only software I have that could do that is Goldwave 5. I haven't
really
> messed with compression much, so I'm not sure how well it actually works.
> Maybe I'll give that a try... if it does, I may re-record all this.

No, don't. Leave the tracks as they are and you'll be happier. Trust me.

Peace,
Paul

[Paul Stamler]

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> The only software I have that could do that is Goldwave 5. I haven't
really
> messed with compression much, so I'm not sure how well it actually works.
> Maybe I'll give that a try... if it does, I may re-record all this.

No, don't. Leave the tracks as they are and you'll be happier. Trust me.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."
>
> And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
> peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
> to make it sound like that of course :-)

You make it sound so easy. OK, advise him to do that and see if he
asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."
>
> And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
> peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
> to make it sound like that of course :-)

You make it sound so easy. OK, advise him to do that and see if he
asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > See about every other message that has anything to do with "mastering."
>
> And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then normalise
> peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the desire
> to make it sound like that of course :-)

You make it sound so easy. OK, advise him to do that and see if he
asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Robotnik]

Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
I'm debating on weather to do it again.

Nic

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, first I'm new here.
>
> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio
in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.
>
> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough
on
> the digital recordings?
>
> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic
>
>

[Robotnik]

Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
I'm debating on weather to do it again.

Nic

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, first I'm new here.
>
> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio
in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.
>
> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough
on
> the digital recordings?
>
> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic
>
>

[Robotnik]

Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
I'm debating on weather to do it again.

Nic

"Robotnik" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, first I'm new here.
>
> I'm going record some cassette tapes onto my PC, so I can have the audio
in
> digital form, and then put them on CD's.
>
> I have a Sony HST-190 Stereo componet system. I plan to have the
> equalaizer sliders all at zero. The volume nob does not give decibal
> levels... so when I"m recording, what would be a good percentage of Full
> volume to play the tapes at to avoid distortion, but still be loud enough
on
> the digital recordings?
>
> Thanks alot,
>
> Nic
>
>

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
> Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
> I'm debating on weather to do it again.

If the tape was recorded with Dolby, you're better off playing it back
with Dolby. If you play back with Dolby off, you'll probably think it
sounds better because you're getting some high frequency boost and
some compression, but that isn't the way it's supposed to sound.

But if you like it, leave it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
> Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
> I'm debating on weather to do it again.

If the tape was recorded with Dolby, you're better off playing it back
with Dolby. If you play back with Dolby off, you'll probably think it
sounds better because you're getting some high frequency boost and
some compression, but that isn't the way it's supposed to sound.

But if you like it, leave it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Hmm, on the thought of volume levels.... I just realized that the Dolby
> Noise Reduction was on.... with that off, alot more tones come through. Now
> I'm debating on weather to do it again.

If the tape was recorded with Dolby, you're better off playing it back
with Dolby. If you play back with Dolby off, you'll probably think it
sounds better because you're getting some high frequency boost and
some compression, but that isn't the way it's supposed to sound.

But if you like it, leave it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[TonyP]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085502850k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:

> > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
normalise
> > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
desire
> > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> You make it sound so easy.

It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

>OK, advise him to do that and see if he
> asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

In that case he isn't compressing and clipping hard enough.
I still can't imagine WHY he would want them to sound like crap though.

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085502850k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:

> > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
normalise
> > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
desire
> > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> You make it sound so easy.

It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

>OK, advise him to do that and see if he
> asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

In that case he isn't compressing and clipping hard enough.
I still can't imagine WHY he would want them to sound like crap though.

TonyP.

[TonyP]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1085502850k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:

> > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
normalise
> > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
desire
> > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> You make it sound so easy.

It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

>OK, advise him to do that and see if he
> asks why his CDs STILL aren't as loud as commercial ones.

In that case he isn't compressing and clipping hard enough.
I still can't imagine WHY he would want them to sound like crap though.

TonyP.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
> normalise
> > > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
> desire
> > > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> > You make it sound so easy.
> It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

I do (know how) but I don't (do it). That's the kind of solution that,
once the singer gets famous, prompts threads in rec.audio.pro about
why the recording on such-and-such is distorted.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
> normalise
> > > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
> desire
> > > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> > You make it sound so easy.
> It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

I do (know how) but I don't (do it). That's the kind of solution that,
once the singer gets famous, prompts threads in rec.audio.pro about
why the recording on such-and-such is distorted.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > > And why can't he can't compress the hell out of it too and then
> normalise
> > > peaks to -0.1 dB? Assuming any half way competent software (and the
> desire
> > > to make it sound like that of course :-)

> > You make it sound so easy.
> It is, for those who know how, and I'm sure you do.

I do (know how) but I don't (do it). That's the kind of solution that,
once the singer gets famous, prompts threads in rec.audio.pro about
why the recording on such-and-such is distorted.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo