My opinion about Grado SR-80 headphones

[Balaji]

Well, I will try posting again, as my earlier post never showed up.

Well, I have been listening to the Grado SR-80 for the last 4 to 5 days
with my Dell Laptop. I listen about 2 to 3 hrs per day, I must say
these are great headphones, however I am not exactly ecstatic, I am not
getting goosebumps as I listen to my familiar music. It does sound
pretty nice tho, I am no audiophile and I dont understand terms like
"sharp highs", "clear mids", "tight bass" etc. As a lay man all I will
say is this : When I listen to the Grado SR-80, it feels like I am
listening to a pretty good stereo system in a big room. I have never
listened to any audiophile speakers like Magnepan, Paradigm, B&W, etc.
All I have listened to is my Aiwa "mini" system. (better than a boombox
thats about it). Once I listened to a friends Big JBL speakers with a
seperate amplifier etc, he has now upgraded to Bose 901. Both these
sounded much bigger and room-filling than my Aiwa mini system.
Listening to the Grado's gives me that feeling.

Details : I wont pretend that I can hear plenty of little details from
my music source (CD) that I have never heard before. I started off by
listening to "Every breath you take", the Police classic, and I heard
the guitar squeaks, but believe me, I had heard the same squeaks with
my plastic cheapies also. But I think there may be some little details
that I think I hear, but anyway, the main vocals drown these out so it
is so minor I dont see the big difference. Also, I cant tell any
difference between 128 k MP3 vs 360k MP3 vs pure CD. All this
audiophile talk about "unmistakeable punchiness" of compressed music
etc is beyond me. All this talk about "you will be amazed to hear
details you never heard in your CD" is a tad overrated, imo. Or, maybe
I just have below average ears. I am probably just not gifted.

Imaging and soundstage : I dont know what this exactly means in
audiophile lingo, but when listening to the Grado's I dont feel like I
am sitting as an audience, I can hear the main vocals sort of above my
head and "to the back" of my head and the stereo seperation is so stark
- I can hear some sounds right next to my right or left ear, feels
wierd - it is hard to describe, it feels like I am sitting on stage
with the musicians but facing away from the musicians with my back to
the audience. It is a strange feeling - I wont say it is good or bad -
just different.

I still dont get it - why they say "open" phones are better than
"closed" phones. The Grado's leak a lot of sound, it is almost like a
small radio playing. I live alone in a quiet apartment and when I left
the phones on at mid volume, I could even hear it from my bathroom.
They were that "open" (leakage).

My last plastic cheapies were earbud style (not in-ear) and I could
keep volume levels low. Since Grados are a bit away from the ears, I am
having to keep the volume on my winamp at 50-60% and the volume bar on
my laptop at around 40%. I hope that wont affect my hearing long term.
This is when I listen to regular pop CDs like Madonna, Sting etc.

Comfort : I was apprehensive about this but surprisingly I find them
quite comfortable. They are almost circumaural (may be I have small
ears), i.e. they almost cover my ears completely. Only after about 2.5
hrs it gets slightly uncomfortable.

I am a little bit disappointed because I was expecting this great
musical bliss and nirvana, maybe I should listen to some special CD and
then compare to my plastic cheapies : For instance, I guess I wll try
"A woman's heart", some jazz tune thats supposed to test low ends of
music system. I feel my plastic earbuds got me almost at 85% of
audiophile quality, and they cost only 10 bucks, I cant seem to
appreciate the greatness of the Grado's.

I am not sure if the phones have "broken in", maybe they will slightly
improve.

Is there any CD that people can think of where one can clearly hear the
difference between my cheap earphones vs Grado SR-80 that would justify
the $80 difference in price - not just Grado but any headphone more
than say $40.00 ? Or, any so-called "high end" headphone for that
matter ?!

[jeffc]

"Balaji" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I listen about 2 to 3 hrs per day, I must say
> these are great headphones...

> I am a little bit disappointed because I was expecting this great
> musical bliss and nirvana, maybe I should listen to some special CD and
> then compare to my plastic cheapies : For instance, I guess I wll try
> "A woman's heart", some jazz tune thats supposed to test low ends of
> music system. I feel my plastic earbuds got me almost at 85% of
> audiophile quality, and they cost only 10 bucks, I cant seem to
> appreciate the greatness of the Grado's.

Hmmm, they're "great", but you can't appreciate the greatness of them.
First of all, you're not getting great sound to begin with with MP3 and your
laptop. Second, I don't really think they're great headphones. I'd
recommend going to a high end stereo store near you and ask to listen to one
of their best stereos. Tell them what kind of music you like. That'll give
you some idea of a reference. Take it from there.

[[email protected]]

jeffc:

>First of all, you're not getting great sound to begin with with MP3
and your
laptop.

True

> Second, I don't really think they're great headphones.

There's lots worse!

>I'd
recommend going to a high end stereo store near you and ask to listen
to one
of their best stereos. Tell them what kind of music you like. That'll
give
you some idea of a reference.

Probably false. The rooms tend to suck; many current high end speakers
like Thiel, McIntosh, Legacy, are notorious for golden showering the
dynamic overlay of the soundstage, and they like to use musical
selections that are almost tailored to hide the flaws of what they
front (because they sure don't represent!). All that aside, headphones
are not supposed to sound like far field music reproduction. Compare
headphones to headphones, ideally with binaural source: compare
nearfield to nearfield and compare full field to full field. Don't mix
your mismetaphors.

For audiophiles, Stax has always been the preferred headphone, compare
it to them. Find out what they used in the studios when they made your
favorite rock records, if you're a rock fan, and audition that too.
Find out what the US Navy issues submariners for sonar duty, audition
those too.

[Balaji]

> they're "great", but you can't appreciate the greatness of them

Hi Jeff, good catch there :) I was just trying to be polite in the
first line when I said they are great. Okay, they are good, what I
meant is I couldnt quite understand the overwhelming gushing response
in all review sites out there (including audiophile sites) - Check out
the Stereophile review of SR-60 to see what I mean. With those kind of
reviews and Golden Note award and Grand Prix award and what not, I was
naturally expecting musical nirvana. My personal feeling is that my
ears are not special and I guess I would complain even with the Senn
HD-580 or Grado RS-1 or Ety-E4.

I get your point about MP3 but then again, I couldnt tell the diff
between MP3 vs original Audio CD playing on my dvd drive on the laptop.
I was listening to Pet Shop Boys Discography, Madonna - Immaculate
collection (La Isla Bonita used to sound Terrific on the $10.00 plastic
phones but with the Grado it was a bit of let down), Sting (Police) -
Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms 128K MP3 sounded pretty good but I didnt
have the CD to compare it with. Kenny G's Breathless sounded pretty
ordinary in 128k MP3, again I didnt have the orig cd to compare with.
Now dont flame me for listening to Kenny G :)

What do you mean you dont think they are great headphones ? You mean my
unit or Grado SR-80 in general ? If the latter, what do you think is
the greatest set of cans out there purely for sound quality (forgetting
comfort) ?

I can forget this whole audiophile business and go back to my AIWA and
plastic headphone (at least it will save me money) but I want to make
at least a few attempts to try to understand what audiophiles talk
about, I want to see the promised land, especially as someone who was
trained in classical music. Thats why I bought the Grados to start
with.

[jeffc]

"Balaji" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> > they're "great", but you can't appreciate the greatness of them
>
> Hi Jeff, good catch there :) I was just trying to be polite in the
> first line when I said they are great. Okay, they are good, what I
> meant is I couldnt quite understand the overwhelming gushing response
> in all review sites out there (including audiophile sites) - Check out
> the Stereophile review of SR-60 to see what I mean.

Oh I have, and I don't quite understand it either. I think Grados are
fairly colored. But that's the sound many people like, especially for rock.
Not that they sound bad, mind you.

> With those kind of
> reviews and Golden Note award and Grand Prix award and what not, I was
> naturally expecting musical nirvana. My personal feeling is that my
> ears are not special and I guess I would complain even with the Senn
> HD-580 or Grado RS-1 or Ety-E4.

I think anyone could tell the difference between the Sennheiser and the
Grado if you A/B them. Personal preference, of course.

> I get your point about MP3 but then again, I couldnt tell the diff
> between MP3 vs original Audio CD playing on my dvd drive on the laptop.

Actually that's a good thing. You can listen to much less expensive stereos
and be satisified with it.

> What do you mean you dont think they are great headphones ? You mean my
> unit or Grado SR-80 in general ? If the latter, what do you think is
> the greatest set of cans out there purely for sound quality (forgetting
> comfort) ?

Well I think the Sennheiser 600 is both more comfortable and better
sounding, and they are probably the best headphones I've listened to. But I
haven't listened to them all (Stax etc.). By that I mean they're more
accurate than the Grado, which is not to say everyone would prefer that
sound. I have some AKG K240 which sound more like the Grados, and are
cheaper than the Sennheiser and are the most comfortable of all.

> I can forget this whole audiophile business and go back to my AIWA and
> plastic headphone (at least it will save me money) but I want to make
> at least a few attempts to try to understand what audiophiles talk
> about, I want to see the promised land, especially as someone who was
> trained in classical music. Thats why I bought the Grados to start
> with.

Well like I said go to some high end stores and listen to some good stereos.
Then go to some cheapo store like Circuit City or Best Buy and listen. If
you find a difference, decide which you like more and which you'd actually
be willing to pay for (being able to tell a difference between 2 stereos
doesn't mean a whole lot - the question is, is one really worth twice the
price of the other?) You will either form some opinions of what you prefer,
or not. If not, don't worry about it. If you do, then you'll have to be
able to describe your priorities and preferences. For example, Grado RS-1
are very expensive headphones, but I don't like them. To me they sound
tubby and bloated. But those who like that sound call it warm and rich.
The Sennheisers are neutral, with extended highs, deep bass, and good
detail, but without too much bass or treble volume at any particular
frequency. Those who don't like them call them bright and analytical. You
don't have to use this language. Use whatever language comes to mind when
you listen, if you do indeed hear a difference at all.

[Bill Riel]

In article om>,
says...

[...]

> I can forget this whole audiophile business and go back to my AIWA and
> plastic headphone (at least it will save me money) but I want to make
> at least a few attempts to try to understand what audiophiles talk
> about, I want to see the promised land, especially as someone who was
> trained in classical music. Thats why I bought the Grados to start
> with.
[ this has nothing to do with your headphones, but I thought I'd put in
my $0.02 worth ]

Well, I'm probably not the guy to be responding because I'm definitely
not an audiophile, nor am I very knowledgeable about any of this, but I
think I may be on the slippery slope...

By way of background, I recently (about 4 months ago) bought some new
stereo gear - nothing high end, and I certainly didn't spend much money.
However, at the urging of a friend I checked out a local audio shop
(Sound Hounds) instead of going the usual big electronics megastore
route - and I am thrilled that I did!

I really didn't spend a cent more than I would have at a megastore, and
probably what I bought most true audiophiles would sneer at, but I
simply can't believe how much I am enjoying my music now - I purchased a
Denon receiver and a pair of Paradigm Phantoms: the speakers were
literally no more than I would have spent on any off the shelf name
brand.

But I'll never forget when I assembled the system and put on a CD: it
was a world of difference from the ancient Panasonic system I've got in
the entertainment room! Room full of Blues, the first album: Suddenly I
knew what people meant by "soundstage". Take Five (Dave Brubek) -
magnificent! I literally could hear things that I couldn't in my old
system, and there was a three-dimensionality to the music that made it
seem so real and present. It sounded like instruments were positioned in
different spots around the room, not like the sound was coming from two
speakers.

I don't want to gush, but I literally have been rediscovering my music
and loving it more than I ever thought possible. I know that my system
is pretty low end, but to me it's fabulous :-)

I guess what I'm saying is that you really want to try to hear some of
your favorite music on something a bit better than your Aiwa (not
knocking that, mind you). It's not that expensive to get started, or
maybe listen to some stuff in a local shop...Then again, you might not
want to - you might find this terribly addictive!

--
Bill