What the hell is this ****??? is this for real?? anyone used these before?

[[email protected]]

http://www.usdaudio.com/tutorials/ap-tut1.php


has anyone ever listened to this setup before? Does this work good?
Has anyone delt with this before? Are these "mats" expensive?
Would it work with 8" subs????

[sanitarium]

Yes its for real. Aperiodic emclosures are not the most common for car
audio booming though, more of a SQ application. Search the termpro.com
forums for "aperiodic" Lots of info archived there.

I have a pair of 12s and a 15 on order and will attempt an aperiodic
design in my hatchback, venting the aperiodic wall into the spare tire
well, sealed from the interior.

read my previous post for url links on Richard Clark and Harry Kimura.
Garrett

wrote:
> http://www.usdaudio.com/tutorials/ap-tut1.php
>
>
> has anyone ever listened to this setup before? Does this work good?
> Has anyone delt with this before? Are these "mats" expensive?
> Would it work with 8" subs????
>
>

[tommy]

so are there sq gains by using these type of boxes


--
tommy
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[Paul Vina]

If that is what you're after, yes. Think of it like an infinite baffle
(free-air) setup but with optimal damping at all frequencies or a sealed box
that is the optimum size for whatever frequency is being played.


Paul Vina


"tommy" > wrote in message
...
>
> so are there sq gains by using these type of boxes
>
>
> --
> tommy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
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[tommy]

sounds interesting but is the design of the box hard? please give more
detail on how to build one


--
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[sanitarium]

I really wish I could elaborate on the construction but I have no first
hand experience, so I'd just be regurgitating www materials... See my
previous posts for URL links.

I should be getting a powerbase XS-15D in the mail soon
http://www.powerbaseusa.com/products/xtreme/xtremesub.html

I'm gonna try an aperiodic enclosure for it, and push it with 800W rms.
No where near its capacity, but Im on a budget right now and my SPL
goal is around 120-125db. So I'm tuning it more for SQ. Good
efficiency, low Qts and low Fs so it should work well.

I'll keep you posted in the next few weeks.

Garrett

tommy wrote:
> sounds interesting but is the design of the box hard? please give more
> detail on how to build one
>
>
> --
> tommy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
> http://www.RealCarAudio.com
> tommy's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=160
> View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9810
>

[Paul Vina]

It's really simple actually. First build a sealed enclosure as small as
possible, just big enough to contain the sub is perfect, with an open back.
Bolt the aperiodic membrane onto the opening in the back. Now for the only
really *hard* part, the trunk and cabin must be physically separated exactly
like when doing an infinite baffle or "free-air" install. That's it. Every
aperiodic system I've seen has a low bass compensation circuit (basically an
eq strictly for the sub amp) that will fill in the low end that's lost
because of the inefficiency of the aperiodic design. Which brings me to the
only drawback, a decrease (usually about 3dB) in output. Check out this
link for more info about the install:
http://www.usdaudio.com/tutorials/ap-tut1.php and this one for the USD
Audio APMat: http://www.usdaudio.com/products/ap.php



Paul Vina
"sanitarium" > wrote in message
...
> I really wish I could elaborate on the construction but I have no first
> hand experience, so I'd just be regurgitating www materials... See my
> previous posts for URL links.
>
> I should be getting a powerbase XS-15D in the mail soon
> http://www.powerbaseusa.com/products/xtreme/xtremesub.html
>
> I'm gonna try an aperiodic enclosure for it, and push it with 800W rms.
> No where near its capacity, but Im on a budget right now and my SPL
> goal is around 120-125db. So I'm tuning it more for SQ. Good
> efficiency, low Qts and low Fs so it should work well.
>
> I'll keep you posted in the next few weeks.
>
> Garrett
>
> tommy wrote:
> > sounds interesting but is the design of the box hard? please give more
> > detail on how to build one
> >
> >
> > --
> > tommy
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
> > http://www.RealCarAudio.com
> > tommy's Profile:
http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=160
> > View this thread:
http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9810
> >
>

[Stephen Narayan]

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:59:10 GMT, tommy >
wrote:

>
>sounds interesting but is the design of the box hard? please give more
>detail on how to build one

There's a pretty good technical article on these over at
www.elitecaraudio.com


Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com

Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Kevin McMurtrie]

In article >,
tommy > wrote:

> sounds interesting but is the design of the box hard? please give more
> detail on how to build one
>
>
> --
> tommy

There isn't a box. The back of the speaker vents into a large area such
as the trunk or the exterior; infinite baffle. The mat covers the vent
for acoustic dampening. The trick is that with no box, you have to make
a seal between the interior and exterior of the car. That means a large
air-tight custom panel that replaces the rear seats or a side panel.

It might not be very easy to install but it should sound very good.
Most car audio sub enclosures sound like crap because making them 4 to 6
cubic feet isn't practical.

[Tony Fernandes]

Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't I
seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

[sanitarium]

Dont know... Possibly the lack of efficiency and tuning difficulty???

Garrett



Tony Fernandes wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't I
> seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?
>
> Tony
>
>
> --
>
>
> What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
> universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
> he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
> have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
>
>

[Paul Vina]

I guess people are lazy or are scared to try something new. Everyone is
going to use the methods they are most familiar with.



Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" > wrote in message
...
> Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't I
> seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?
>
> Tony
>
>
> --
>
>
> What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
> universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
> he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
> have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
>
>

[Paul Vina]

They're easier to tune since they aren't as sensitive to the environment
they're in as other enclosures.


Paul Vina



"sanitarium" > wrote in message
...
> Dont know... Possibly the lack of efficiency and tuning difficulty???
>
> Garrett
>
>
>
> Tony Fernandes wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't
I
> > seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
> > universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
> > he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
> > have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
> >
> >
>

[sanitarium]

So true

Paul Vina wrote:
> I guess people are lazy or are scared to try something new. Everyone is
> going to use the methods they are most familiar with.
>
>
>
> Paul Vina
>
>
>
> "Tony Fernandes" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't I
>>seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?
>>
>>Tony
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
>>universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
>
> that
>
>>he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
>
> wouldn't
>
>>have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Eddie Runner]

FADS CHANGE..... A few years ago they were all the rage.

Tony Fernandes wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, if AP enclosures sound so good, then why haven't I
> seen them in more SQ competition vehicles?
>
> Tony
>
> --
>
> What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
> universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
> he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
> have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

[FogHornLegHorn]

peeps have been building speaker enclosures using ap mats for decades.
This is nothing new.

FHLH

> wrote in message
...
> http://www.usdaudio.com/tutorials/ap-tut1.php
>
>
> has anyone ever listened to this setup before? Does this work good?
> Has anyone delt with this before? Are these "mats" expensive?
> Would it work with 8" subs????
>
>

[Tha Ghee]

have you heard of Mark Elridge (sp?). he runs a.per in his 4runner and it's
one of the most victorious setups in IASCA.

it's not that hard to setup just have to get a big woofer and lots of power

[capone]

i gotta do some reasearch this sounds interesting:p


--
capone
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[Paul Vina]

> it's not that hard to setup just have to get a big woofer and lots of
power
>

No and no. You can use it with any size woofer and with small amps. I've
seen APs used in the old 1-50 watt class before with great results.


Paul Vina

[Tha Ghee]

if you look at the top a.per set ups they have large woofers and power,
usually cheater amps

"Paul Vina" > wrote in message
news:LB3kb.801602$YN5.803414@sccrnsc01...
>
> > it's not that hard to setup just have to get a big woofer and lots of
> power
> >
>
> No and no. You can use it with any size woofer and with small amps. I've
> seen APs used in the old 1-50 watt class before with great results.
>
>
> Paul Vina
>
>
>

[Paul Vina]

I'll agree that most of the AP setups do use big woofers and large or old
school cheater amps, but I've built and seen other cars using as little as
100 watts and a single 10. I did an AP setup in an old Saturn of mine with
an Oz 12 and a Linear Power 992IQ and it was squeaky clean and got plenty
loud for me.


Paul Vina



"Tha Ghee" > wrote in message
...
> if you look at the top a.per set ups they have large woofers and power,
> usually cheater amps
>
> "Paul Vina" > wrote in message
> news:LB3kb.801602$YN5.803414@sccrnsc01...
> >
> > > it's not that hard to setup just have to get a big woofer and lots of
> > power
> > >
> >
> > No and no. You can use it with any size woofer and with small amps.
I've
> > seen APs used in the old 1-50 watt class before with great results.
> >
> >
> > Paul Vina
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Tha Ghee]

not to split hairs but, a 12 sub is not a small sub. when I think of a
small sub, I'm talking about 12+, not 5, 6-1/2, or 8", they seem to not
respond well to the mats. I've run a IDQ with Xtant 200xi and most thought
it was 2 12"s or a 15"

"Paul Vina" > wrote in message
news:y8clb.844571$uu5.150179@sccrnsc04...
> I'll agree that most of the AP setups do use big woofers and large or old
> school cheater amps, but I've built and seen other cars using as little as
> 100 watts and a single 10. I did an AP setup in an old Saturn of mine
with
> an Oz 12 and a Linear Power 992IQ and it was squeaky clean and got plenty
> loud for me.
>
>
> Paul Vina

[Paul Vina]

I listened to an Integra HB with a single 10 with a USD AP Mat that sounded
really great, but I get what you mean. I really like the way a dual AP 18
setup with a couple thousand watts. Now THAT'S good stuff!!


Paul Vina



"Tha Ghee" > wrote in message
...
> not to split hairs but, a 12 sub is not a small sub. when I think of a
> small sub, I'm talking about 12+, not 5, 6-1/2, or 8", they seem to not
> respond well to the mats. I've run a IDQ with Xtant 200xi and most
thought
> it was 2 12"s or a 15"
>
> "Paul Vina" > wrote in message
> news:y8clb.844571$uu5.150179@sccrnsc04...
> > I'll agree that most of the AP setups do use big woofers and large or
old
> > school cheater amps, but I've built and seen other cars using as little
as
> > 100 watts and a single 10. I did an AP setup in an old Saturn of mine
> with
> > an Oz 12 and a Linear Power 992IQ and it was squeaky clean and got
plenty
> > loud for me.
> >
> >
> > Paul Vina
>
>

[truepro]

I am going to post a 3D exploded pic of an AP mat for you guys in th
next few days. I will also include all part numbers of the things and
link to a website that will show you step by step how to build thes
things. Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky
sealed box? The "leak" allows the woofer to keep extending lower as th
pressure remains close to constant as frequency changes...which seem
like witchcraft, but it works...I did one not too long ago for a frien
in a 65 mustang with 3 10" woofers and one old punch 100...measue
139dB in the car

-
truepr
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[Paul Vina]

> Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky"
> sealed box?

By coltrolling the thickness of the Mat you can over or underdamp the sub.
It can make a pretty big difference.


Paul Vina

[Tony Fernandes]

Please do so as soon as you can. I'll be making my mats this weekend and
the more info I have the better!!!

Tony

"truepro" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am going to post a 3D exploded pic of an AP mat for you guys in the
> next few days. I will also include all part numbers of the things and a
> link to a website that will show you step by step how to build these
> things. Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky"
> sealed box? The "leak" allows the woofer to keep extending lower as the
> pressure remains close to constant as frequency changes...which seems
> like witchcraft, but it works...I did one not too long ago for a friend
> in a 65 mustang with 3 10" woofers and one old punch 100...measued
> 139dB in the car.
>
>
> --
> truepro
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
> http://www.RealCarAudio.com
> truepro's Profile:
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> View this thread:
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>

[sanitarium]

please please please... post this info. 139db off a punch 100... not
bad IMHO for an AP enclosure. Ive heard soo many pros / cons, about
these things, had to try it myself.

Here are pics of my AP enclosure, If the links dont work, just
copy/paste them in the URL window.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_89_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_90_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_91_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_92_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_93_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_94_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_95_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/5/web/401000-401999/401268_96_full.jpg

What you dont see is the heavily perforated, fiberglassed spare tire
well that the AP mat vents into, with the mini spare stowed below deck.
The 2 small enclosures on the side are reserved for a pair of RF 8's
I still have to carpet the box and carrige (SP?) bolt it through the
chassis.

I have about an inch of comperssed AP mat material right now.

Garrett

truepro wrote:

>I am going to post a 3D exploded pic of an AP mat for you guys in the
>next few days. I will also include all part numbers of the things and a
>link to a website that will show you step by step how to build these
>things. Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky"
>sealed box? The "leak" allows the woofer to keep extending lower as the
>pressure remains close to constant as frequency changes...which seems
>like witchcraft, but it works...I did one not too long ago for a friend
>in a 65 mustang with 3 10" woofers and one old punch 100...measued
>139dB in the car.
>
>
>--
>truepro
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
>http://www.RealCarAudio.com
>truepro's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=2998
>View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9810
>
>
>

[thelizman]

truepro wrote:
> I am going to post a 3D exploded pic of an AP mat for you guys in the
> next few days. I will also include all part numbers of the things and a
> link to a website that will show you step by step how to build these
> things. Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky"
> sealed box? The "leak" allows the woofer to keep extending lower as the
> pressure remains close to constant as frequency changes...which seems
> like witchcraft, but it works...I did one not too long ago for a friend
> in a 65 mustang with 3 10" woofers and one old punch 100...measued
> 139dB in the car.
>

I will once again point out to your morons who need a web interface to
post your **** on this newsgroup that rec.audio.car is NOT a binary
newsgroup. Posting anything other than text here is verbotten, and it
violates your ISP's AUP, and the AUP of the service you're using.

--
Lizard
And learn to ****ing quote, morons.

[sanitarium]

Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?

sorry...
Garrett

thelizman wrote:

> truepro wrote:
>
>> I am going to post a 3D exploded pic of an AP mat for you guys in the
>> next few days. I will also include all part numbers of the things and a
>> link to a website that will show you step by step how to build these
>> things. Tuning them is silly, because how would you tune a "leaky"
>> sealed box? The "leak" allows the woofer to keep extending lower as the
>> pressure remains close to constant as frequency changes...which seems
>> like witchcraft, but it works...I did one not too long ago for a friend
>> in a 65 mustang with 3 10" woofers and one old punch 100...measued
>> 139dB in the car.
>>
>
> I will once again point out to your morons who need a web interface to
> post your **** on this newsgroup that rec.audio.car is NOT a binary
> newsgroup. Posting anything other than text here is verbotten, and it
> violates your ISP's AUP, and the AUP of the service you're using.
>
> --
> Lizard
> And learn to ****ing quote, morons.

[thelizman]

sanitarium wrote:
> Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?
>

That would be splendid.

--
Lizard
Fabulous....

[thelizman]

sanitarium wrote:
> Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?
>
> sorry...
> Garrett
>

By the way, you get the award for the most unflinching reaction to a
flame award...type....award...thingy...

--
Lizard
nonplussed

[Paul Vina]

Very true. Maybe he didn't realize it WAS a flame.



Paul Vina



"thelizman" <thelizman1221.yahoo@com> wrote in message
...
> sanitarium wrote:
> > Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?
> >
> > sorry...
> > Garrett
> >
>
> By the way, you get the award for the most unflinching reaction to a
> flame award...type....award...thingy...
>
> --
> Lizard
> nonplussed

[sanitarium]

LOL. hey if I screw up and do something wrong, I'll admit to it.

truth is I have no pulse
Garrett

thelizman wrote:

> sanitarium wrote:
>
>> Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?
>>
>> sorry...
>> Garrett
>>
>
> By the way, you get the award for the most unflinching reaction to a
> flame award...type....award...thingy...
>
> --
> Lizard
> nonplussed

[John Durbin]

sad... the Lizard is losing his touch.

JD
just as well, one of these days it was going to get him arrested for
harassment anyway

Paul Vina wrote:

>Very true. Maybe he didn't realize it WAS a flame.
>
>
>
>Paul Vina
>
>
>
>"thelizman" <thelizman1221.yahoo@com> wrote in message
...
>
>
>>sanitarium wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oops... can I post url links to pics? Are they considered text?
>>>
>>>sorry...
>>>Garrett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>By the way, you get the award for the most unflinching reaction to a
>>flame award...type....award...thingy...
>>
>>--
>>Lizard
>>nonplussed
>>
>>
>
>
>
>