Is old fashion custom installation dead? (from Toronto)

[Ben]

I recently went to a store to have my gears removed before selling my
old car(for those of you in Toronto area: "401 Sound" a store that has
been around) and I just casually asked if he owner does custom
installs, sort of testing if I would have him does my next car.

His reply was "There is no money in this. I am going to charge $95 for
half hour for things like that." I then ask him what does he do for a
living, he then answered, "Why should I tell you?"

My guess for this answer is that most of car audio business is either
just replacing factory stuff with expensive stuff (or cheaper stuff at
high volume) or selling the new DVD 5.1 $20,000 systems with video.
There is really no point in doing the custom sound staging, speaker
placement etc. Too much work for too little pay, when compared with
instant profit of selling the latest gear?

My personal experience with the last install was somewhat
disappointing. I had it done at Kennedy Hi Fi (certainly famous). They
obviously have the ability, the custom fibre glass kick panel was
great, but there are lots of sloppy work including wires that does not
have a jack nor properly secured, the factory amp wires just cut out
of convenience, the screws for the EQ started coming loose...

Are these the "sign of our times?" Are there still people who cares
about audio excellence (and their own handiwork)?

Should I give up altogether about my next car? Factory system are
greatly improved these days. I have some old gear that I will use (a
pair Sony Mobile ES amps that the above owner said "they are way
better than Sony's new stuff") so there may not be as much "instant
profit" for the installer.

I would like the old fashion sound treatment, speaker placement,
staging for CD (not interested in DVD). For those of you in the
Toronto area (Steven Narayan?), is there still someone who actually
cares?

Ben

[sanitarium]

Just do it yourself... Its no secret that I am less than impressed with
the car audio shops in my area. too much $$$ for too little work IMHO.

Garrett

Ben wrote:
> I recently went to a store to have my gears removed before selling my
> old car(for those of you in Toronto area: "401 Sound" a store that has
> been around) and I just casually asked if he owner does custom
> installs, sort of testing if I would have him does my next car.
>
> His reply was "There is no money in this. I am going to charge $95 for
> half hour for things like that." I then ask him what does he do for a
> living, he then answered, "Why should I tell you?"
>
> My guess for this answer is that most of car audio business is either
> just replacing factory stuff with expensive stuff (or cheaper stuff at
> high volume) or selling the new DVD 5.1 $20,000 systems with video.
> There is really no point in doing the custom sound staging, speaker
> placement etc. Too much work for too little pay, when compared with
> instant profit of selling the latest gear?
>
> My personal experience with the last install was somewhat
> disappointing. I had it done at Kennedy Hi Fi (certainly famous). They
> obviously have the ability, the custom fibre glass kick panel was
> great, but there are lots of sloppy work including wires that does not
> have a jack nor properly secured, the factory amp wires just cut out
> of convenience, the screws for the EQ started coming loose...
>
> Are these the "sign of our times?" Are there still people who cares
> about audio excellence (and their own handiwork)?
>
> Should I give up altogether about my next car? Factory system are
> greatly improved these days. I have some old gear that I will use (a
> pair Sony Mobile ES amps that the above owner said "they are way
> better than Sony's new stuff") so there may not be as much "instant
> profit" for the installer.
>
> I would like the old fashion sound treatment, speaker placement,
> staging for CD (not interested in DVD). For those of you in the
> Toronto area (Steven Narayan?), is there still someone who actually
> cares?
>
> Ben

[Stephen Narayan]

There are a few decent shops around that are not just interested in
doing "decks and 4" all day long. When you get a chance sometime go
visit Drago at DBF Electronics in Mississauga just west of the 427 off
Dundas...

Or what you can do to research is visit www.canadaincaraudio.com and
get to know the people on the forum there. Tom Kleim is an IASCA judge
and he does custom work on other peoples car's on the side. There are
other SQ competitors and other car stereo wierdos I've met from that
forum that take pride in their installs and are sometimes involved
with more than just their own cars....sometimes they even have a local
meet to chat or work on others vehicles..

On 1 Oct 2003 21:50:04 -0700, (Ben) wrote:

>I recently went to a store to have my gears removed before selling my
>old car(for those of you in Toronto area: "401 Sound" a store that has
>been around) and I just casually asked if he owner does custom
>installs, sort of testing if I would have him does my next car.
>
>His reply was "There is no money in this. I am going to charge $95 for
>half hour for things like that." I then ask him what does he do for a
>living, he then answered, "Why should I tell you?"
>
>My guess for this answer is that most of car audio business is either
>just replacing factory stuff with expensive stuff (or cheaper stuff at
>high volume) or selling the new DVD 5.1 $20,000 systems with video.
>There is really no point in doing the custom sound staging, speaker
>placement etc. Too much work for too little pay, when compared with
>instant profit of selling the latest gear?
>
>My personal experience with the last install was somewhat
>disappointing. I had it done at Kennedy Hi Fi (certainly famous). They
>obviously have the ability, the custom fibre glass kick panel was
>great, but there are lots of sloppy work including wires that does not
>have a jack nor properly secured, the factory amp wires just cut out
>of convenience, the screws for the EQ started coming loose...
>
>Are these the "sign of our times?" Are there still people who cares
>about audio excellence (and their own handiwork)?
>
>Should I give up altogether about my next car? Factory system are
>greatly improved these days. I have some old gear that I will use (a
>pair Sony Mobile ES amps that the above owner said "they are way
>better than Sony's new stuff") so there may not be as much "instant
>profit" for the installer.
>
>I would like the old fashion sound treatment, speaker placement,
>staging for CD (not interested in DVD). For those of you in the
>Toronto area (Steven Narayan?), is there still someone who actually
>cares?
>
>Ben

Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com

Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Daniel Snooks]

Stephen Narayan wrote
> There are a few decent shops around that are not just interested in
> doing "decks and 4" all day long. When you get a chance sometime go
> visit Drago at DBF Electronics in Mississauga just west of the 427 off
> Dundas...

Hey Stephen ... do you have any experience with Altered Sound in Oakville
(on Speers Rd), I install my own gear, but was very impressed with the
suggestions and advice I got from the staff.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[Stephen Narayan]

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:17:17 -0400, "Daniel Snooks"
> wrote:

>Stephen Narayan wrote
>> There are a few decent shops around that are not just interested in
>> doing "decks and 4" all day long. When you get a chance sometime go
>> visit Drago at DBF Electronics in Mississauga just west of the 427 off
>> Dundas...
>
>Hey Stephen ... do you have any experience with Altered Sound in Oakville
>(on Speers Rd), I install my own gear, but was very impressed with the
>suggestions and advice I got from the staff.


Yeah they are on my recommended dealers list. Pretty good guys there
to deal with....Though I never had anything installed there...


Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com

Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[ChrisAG]

Ben wrote:
> *
>
> His reply was "There is no money in this. I am going to charge $95
> for
> half hour for things like that." I then ask him what does he do for
> a
> living, he then answered, "Why should I tell you?"
>
> Ben
> *

The guy sounds like a first-class prick who doesn't give a damn about
the customer.

Kromer Radio seems to have a good reputation for installs, though my
first hand experience with them was for Home Theatre only. A colleague
at work had an alarm installed in his Suburu by Kromer, and he liked
their work.
--
ChrisAG
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online!
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/showthread.php?threadid=160233

[Dan-O]

Ah yes, Altered Sound! I was working at a paint factory in Oakville up
until '97 and used to check the place out all the time, mainly because
they sell used stuff and the stock of this type of equipment tends to be
variable. The people there seemed genuinely interested in helping me..
they'd answer tough questions instead of giving me the
get-rid-of-me-as-soon-as-possible-if-they're-not-making-a-sale-immediately
commissioned sales treatment I've encountered at computer stores, Future
Shop, etc. Can't remember what brands they carry anymore. I've since
moved to Calgary and was less than impressed with the Autotemp install.
I think it was $650 including eight hours labour. There was a
persistent alternator whine, when I asked about it they said "depends on
the car"; forgive me for thinking it's their responsibility to give a
noise free install for that kind of money. I ended up solving it by
installing two Canadian Tire noise suppressors on the deck 12V lines,
which barely even fit behind the dash. The whole time I just felt like
I was dealing with a new car dealer.. taking every opportunity to charge
extra and not explaining to me material costs.

Daniel Snooks wrote:


>
> Hey Stephen ... do you have any experience with Altered Sound in Oakville
> (on Speers Rd), I install my own gear, but was very impressed with the
> suggestions and advice I got from the staff.
>

[Stephen Narayan]

IMO Kromer is decent. At least they do a decent job and don't
completely rip you off....Though I question any local dealer that
pushes Kaption products on anyone....



On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:33:50 GMT, ChrisAG
> wrote:

>Ben wrote:
>> *
>>
>> His reply was "There is no money in this. I am going to charge $95
>> for
>> half hour for things like that." I then ask him what does he do for
>> a
>> living, he then answered, "Why should I tell you?"
>>
>> Ben
>> *
>
>The guy sounds like a first-class prick who doesn't give a damn about
>the customer.
>
>Kromer Radio seems to have a good reputation for installs, though my
>first hand experience with them was for Home Theatre only. A colleague
>at work had an alarm installed in his Suburu by Kromer, and he liked
>their work.

Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com

Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Stephen Narayan]

Altered Sound carries Focal, McIntosh, Clarion mainly.....They also
sell JM Lab home audio as well...

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:58:00 GMT, Dan-O > wrote:

>Ah yes, Altered Sound! I was working at a paint factory in Oakville up
>until '97 and used to check the place out all the time, mainly because
>they sell used stuff and the stock of this type of equipment tends to be
>variable. The people there seemed genuinely interested in helping me..
>they'd answer tough questions instead of giving me the
>get-rid-of-me-as-soon-as-possible-if-they're-not-making-a-sale-immediately
>commissioned sales treatment I've encountered at computer stores, Future
>Shop, etc. Can't remember what brands they carry anymore. I've since
>moved to Calgary and was less than impressed with the Autotemp install.
> I think it was $650 including eight hours labour. There was a
>persistent alternator whine, when I asked about it they said "depends on
>the car"; forgive me for thinking it's their responsibility to give a
>noise free install for that kind of money. I ended up solving it by
>installing two Canadian Tire noise suppressors on the deck 12V lines,
>which barely even fit behind the dash. The whole time I just felt like
>I was dealing with a new car dealer.. taking every opportunity to charge
>extra and not explaining to me material costs.
>
>Daniel Snooks wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hey Stephen ... do you have any experience with Altered Sound in Oakville
>> (on Speers Rd), I install my own gear, but was very impressed with the
>> suggestions and advice I got from the staff.
>>

Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com

Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Ben]

Thanks Stephen and others reply.

I may just visit Altered Sound and DBF to give myself another chance,
although they are a bit out of the way for me, being in Willowdale. I
was also thinking of Powertrip, but they are no longer in business,
not sure why.

Ben



Stephen Narayan > wrote in message >...
> Altered Sound carries Focal, McIntosh, Clarion mainly.....They also
> sell JM Lab home audio as well...
>
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:58:00 GMT, Dan-O > wrote:
>
> >Ah yes, Altered Sound! I was working at a paint factory in Oakville up
> >until '97 and used to check the place out all the time, mainly because
> >they sell used stuff and the stock of this type of equipment tends to be
> >variable. The people there seemed genuinely interested in helping me..
> >they'd answer tough questions instead of giving me the
> >get-rid-of-me-as-soon-as-possible-if-they're-not-making-a-sale-immediately
> >commissioned sales treatment I've encountered at computer stores, Future
> >Shop, etc. Can't remember what brands they carry anymore. I've since
> >moved to Calgary and was less than impressed with the Autotemp install.
> > I think it was $650 including eight hours labour. There was a
> >persistent alternator whine, when I asked about it they said "depends on
> >the car"; forgive me for thinking it's their responsibility to give a
> >noise free install for that kind of money. I ended up solving it by
> >installing two Canadian Tire noise suppressors on the deck 12V lines,
> >which barely even fit behind the dash. The whole time I just felt like
> >I was dealing with a new car dealer.. taking every opportunity to charge
> >extra and not explaining to me material costs.
> >
> >Daniel Snooks wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Hey Stephen ... do you have any experience with Altered Sound in Oakville
> >> (on Speers Rd), I install my own gear, but was very impressed with the
> >> suggestions and advice I got from the staff.
> >>
>
> Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
> Audio Perfection | RTA system evaluation and tuning |
> My System/s: Denon | Clarion ADCS-1 | Orion | Dynaudio | PG ZPA | Blade | Kicker
> teamROCS Member #068 | http://www.teamrocs.com
>
> Why not check out my car audio museum :)
> http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Daniel Snooks]

Ben wrote
> Thanks Stephen and others reply.
>
> I may just visit Altered Sound and DBF to give myself another chance,
> although they are a bit out of the way for me, being in Willowdale. I
> was also thinking of Powertrip, but they are no longer in business,
> not sure why.

Hey Ben,

I went into Powertrip a few times in the past and wasn't very well
received, seemed to me that I was an inconvience to them ... not that it
matters because they are gone, and someone else just opened shop there
(can't remember the name though).
Is Art of Noise still in Brampton? Check them out, I have heard good things.

Or I can do the install for you if you like ...

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[Stephen Narayan]

Not sure I'd call Art of Noise a good shop for a custom install....I
did buy my first decent system there though and their prices are good
if you catch them with their annual sale....

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:59:53 -0400, "Daniel Snooks"
> wrote:

>Ben wrote
>> Thanks Stephen and others reply.
>>
>> I may just visit Altered Sound and DBF to give myself another chance,
>> although they are a bit out of the way for me, being in Willowdale. I
>> was also thinking of Powertrip, but they are no longer in business,
>> not sure why.
>
>Hey Ben,
>
> I went into Powertrip a few times in the past and wasn't very well
>received, seemed to me that I was an inconvience to them ... not that it
>matters because they are gone, and someone else just opened shop there
>(can't remember the name though).
>Is Art of Noise still in Brampton? Check them out, I have heard good things.
>
>Or I can do the install for you if you like ...

Stephen Narayan | IASCA Pro Street 1-600 | IASCA Certified Judge 2003
Audio Perfection |
No System.....yup that's right.
Why not check out my car audio museum :)
http://canuck.audioguy.net/gear.html

[Daniel Snooks]

Stephen Narayan wrote
> Not sure I'd call Art of Noise a good shop for a custom install....I
> did buy my first decent system there though and their prices are good
> if you catch them with their annual sale....

They were recommended to me by a fellow employee a few years back, but come
to think of it ... the door install they did for his speakers was fairly
raunchy, although that might have been him getting them to do the cheapest
thing that would still sound good. It did sound good ;-)

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks