Equipment for a home studio/PA and hifi center

[Doug]

The purpose of my equipment is three fold.
1. Home hi fi (I want it to sound louder and better than my desktop
Sony). Noise free to my ears and good speakers.
2. As a "home PA". I sing and play my acoustic/electric through it.
3. As a "studio monitor" when I add a recording outfit to it.

This is my first venture into PA gear and I want to use it to play my
CD collection as well. I have not purchased equipment yet but this is
what I am thinking. I put the Musicians Friend number so you can look
at specs, but I don't care where I buy the stuff, though I like their
45 day return policy.

1. Alesis RS300 Reference Series power amp. Musicians friend #485525
(90 watts into 8 ohms per channel, no fan)
2. Behringer Eurorack UB1222FX-PRO mixer (also serves a preamp for CD
player) MF #631229
3. Sony RCD-W500C CD recorder/player MF #244679
4. Speakers. I need two 8 ohm, non-powered, near field 100 watt
speakers that will sound as good as possible with this equipment. I am
thinking something like Behringer Truths, but non-powered. I am
stumped on this one. Any suggestions? An important choice. Something
with a silk dome tweeter? I think NOT a horn? Something designed for a
studio monitor, near field or maybe medium field. Room is 20 x 30, 8'
ceiling to 16' ceiling sheetrock walls carpet floor.

My other quandry is I do not know how a sub-woofer would fit into
this. If I get a sub do I just plug it into an output of the mixer?

I currently have a mic and mic stand and that's about it. Right now I
play my acoustic electric through an acoustic amp, I have a small Sony
desktop hi fi ($400 model) and a Zoom home 4 channel solid state
recorder.

I will be adding a home recording system some day, and I may want to
use some of this stuff down at the gig someday (that is if I ever do
get any gigs). And maybe adding mike pre-amps, voice effect boxes,
more microphones etc.

Anyway, that is my mission. I would appreciate any suggestions. Yes I
can spend more, but this is the sort of range I think I can buy and
learn with and should get ok sound.
------- ----
acoustic/electric guitar-------|Mixer|--------|Amp|l--------Speaker
microphone---------------------| | | |r--------Speaker
CD player----------------------| | -----
-------

I'd appreciate any constructive help.

[Arny Krueger]

"Doug" > wrote in message
m


> 4. Speakers. I need two 8 ohm, non-powered, near field 100 watt
> speakers that will sound as good as possible with this equipment. I am
> thinking something like Behringer Truths, but non-powered. I am
> stumped on this one. Any suggestions?

There are non-powered versions of the Truths. Same model numbers as the
powered ones, only suffix with a P for passive.

Price difference is about $100 a pair, suggesting that using a separate
power amp is the costlier way to go. Conventional wisdom is that the powered
versions have the potential to sound better than what you'd get with a
separate power amp because the built-in amps are optimized for the speakers.

[Sugarite]

> The purpose of my equipment is three fold.
> 1. Home hi fi (I want it to sound louder and better than my desktop
> Sony). Noise free to my ears and good speakers.
> 2. As a "home PA". I sing and play my acoustic/electric through it.
> 3. As a "studio monitor" when I add a recording outfit to it.
>
> This is my first venture into PA gear and I want to use it to play my
> CD collection as well. I have not purchased equipment yet but this is
> what I am thinking. I put the Musicians Friend number so you can look
> at specs, but I don't care where I buy the stuff, though I like their
> 45 day return policy.
>
> 1. Alesis RS300 Reference Series power amp. Musicians friend #485525
> (90 watts into 8 ohms per channel, no fan)

No, Alesis does not make good amps. Look into Hafler, go used to save coin,
they've always been good value.

> 2. Behringer Eurorack UB1222FX-PRO mixer (also serves a preamp for CD
> player) MF #631229

A suitable mixer for basic PA use, a rough start for recording.

> 3. Sony RCD-W500C CD recorder/player MF #244679

Any CD recorder is a bad choice - nothing special for sound quality, no
editing capabilities, and it requires expensive audio-only media, unless you
spend about $800 on a pro model. Get into a PC-based DAW even if you just
use on-board sound i/o at first.

> 4. Speakers. I need two 8 ohm, non-powered, near field 100 watt
> speakers that will sound as good as possible with this equipment. I am
> thinking something like Behringer Truths, but non-powered.

If you get entry-level studio monitors get powered ones. They typically use
4 Ohm or even 2 Ohm drivers and work best with matching amps. Behringer
Truths use 4 Ohm woofers and tweeters. Other amps will work, but no better
than optional built-in amps unless you spend a fair bit. Either way they
won't be adequate for PA.

> I am
> stumped on this one. Any suggestions? An important choice. Something
> with a silk dome tweeter? I think NOT a horn?

You're kind of screwed here. You'll need horns to get adequate PA power for
that room, but they certainly won't be studio reference quality. Very few
metallic domes sound decent, cloth/silk ones generally sound best.

> Something designed for a
> studio monitor, near field or maybe medium field. Room is 20 x 30, 8'
> ceiling to 16' ceiling sheetrock walls carpet floor.

You'll be hard-pressed to get adequate PA power to that amount of airspace
with anything approaching studio caliber precision for under $2k.

> My other quandry is I do not know how a sub-woofer would fit into
> this. If I get a sub do I just plug it into an output of the mixer?

You should read a lot more into subwoofers before buying one, it's easy to
do more harm than good.

> Anyway, that is my mission. I would appreciate any suggestions. Yes I
> can spend more, but this is the sort of range I think I can buy and
> learn with and should get ok sound.

If I were you I'd get something like the Truths for entry-level nearfield
monitoring and hi-fi use, and also a pair of powered PA speakers for PA and
higher volume hi-fi.

You're going to need to treat that room too.

[Doug]

How does volume control work with the active speakers. What do you do,
just turn the speakers all the way up and control the volume with the
mixer?

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message >...
> "Doug" > wrote in message
> m
>
>
> > 4. Speakers. I need two 8 ohm, non-powered, near field 100 watt
> > speakers that will sound as good as possible with this equipment. I am
> > thinking something like Behringer Truths, but non-powered. I am
> > stumped on this one. Any suggestions?
>
> There are non-powered versions of the Truths. Same model numbers as the
> powered ones, only suffix with a P for passive.
>
> Price difference is about $100 a pair, suggesting that using a separate
> power amp is the costlier way to go. Conventional wisdom is that the powered
> versions have the potential to sound better than what you'd get with a
> separate power amp because the built-in amps are optimized for the speakers.

[Laurence Payne]

On 11 Oct 2004 21:43:42 -0700, (Doug)
wrote:

>How does volume control work with the active speakers. What do you do,
>just turn the speakers all the way up and control the volume with the
>mixer?

Just like it does with any mixer and power amp. The only difference
being the power amp is split in two and is somewhere else.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

[Doug]

So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
only?

Laurence Payne > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Oct 2004 21:43:42 -0700, (Doug)
> wrote:
>
> >How does volume control work with the active speakers. What do you do,
> >just turn the speakers all the way up and control the volume with the
> >mixer?
>
> Just like it does with any mixer and power amp. The only difference
> being the power amp is split in two and is somewhere else.
>
> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

[Jim Carr]

"Doug" > wrote in message
om...
> So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
> want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
> only?

Either way works. I keep my monitors at a constant level and use audio
card's mixer to control the volume. It works fine for me.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Scott Dorsey]

Doug > wrote:
>So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
>want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
>only?

If your mixer has a monitor section with a volume control for the control
room outputs, some routing for the control room outputs so you can listen
to various busses in mono or stereo, then you are good to go.

If you do not have a monitor section and no seperate control room outputs,
you can buy any one of a number of outboard boxes which basically emulate
the monitor section of a console. Coleman Audio makes a nice one. For
the most part these don't handle PFL or aux solos as nicely as a real monitor
section, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[TonyP]

"Doug" > wrote in message
om...
> So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
> want to change volume.

Yes, building larger or smaller enclosures is the only way to change their
volume.

TonyP.

[Laurence Payne]

On 12 Oct 2004 18:17:53 -0700, (Doug)
wrote:

>So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
>want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
>only?

I repeat - it's just like any other mixer and power amp. Send a
signal from your mixer peaking at whatever level you intend to call
maximum. If the sound is painfully loud, turn the power amp controls
down a bit. If it's not loud enough when full up, buy bigger
speakers. Once this is set appropriately, leave it alone and mix
with the mixer.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:32:22 -0700, "Jim Carr" >
wrote:

>> So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
>> want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
>> only?
>
>Either way works. I keep my monitors at a constant level and use audio
>card's mixer to control the volume. It works fine for me.

Are we talking about an actual mixing board, or a software mixer in
the computer? Same answer, really. The source needs to be set up
with optimum gain structure. The final part of this structure is
setting appropriate amp. levels.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

[Doug]

Well my concern is that it is a bit of a hassle to go to each powered
speaker and change the volume, then tweek the mixer. I want volume
controls within reach of my hand at the mixer, I don't want to have to
make a trip to the powered speakers. Thus my concern. As for what type
of mixer, it is a Behringer UB1222FX-PRO, but could be some other one
if it will work better (I haven't bought it yet).

If an Alesis power amp is not a good one, can anyone clue me in on a
100 watt power amp that has no fan and IS a good one?

Laurence Payne > wrote in message >...
> On 12 Oct 2004 18:17:53 -0700, (Doug)
> wrote:
>
> >So does that mean I have to change the volume of the speakers when I
> >want to change volume. Or can I control the volume from the mixer
> >only?
>
> I repeat - it's just like any other mixer and power amp. Send a
> signal from your mixer peaking at whatever level you intend to call
> maximum. If the sound is painfully loud, turn the power amp controls
> down a bit. If it's not loud enough when full up, buy bigger
> speakers. Once this is set appropriately, leave it alone and mix
> with the mixer.
>
> CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
> "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

[Sander deWaal]

"Jim Carr" > said:

>A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>A: Top-posting.
>Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

This is so great.......stored it for future use.

--
Sander deWaal
"SOA of a KT88? Sufficient."

[Jim Carr]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> "Jim Carr" > said:
>
> >A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> >Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> >A: Top-posting.
> >Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
>
> This is so great.......stored it for future use.

I take no credit for it. I saw it and saved it myself!