BMW Convertible system

[Bob]

I took some time Saturday to talk with the folks at a local stereo
shop that was recommended by one of the regulars here. I'm concerned
about both sound quality and SPL, though the latter only to the extent
that I need to be able to hear the system at 80mph with the top down.

The car is a 1999 BMW 3 series convertible (E36).

Head Unit: Factory Alpine
Front Speakers: CDT CL-61
Subs: 2 Crossfire CF-210 in a free air/infinite baffle install in the
trunk
Amps: Crossfire VR-302 and VR-402

Plus all the cables, wiring, sound deadener in the trunk, etc. etc.,
etc.

We did discuss going with four Zapco amps instead of the Crossfires.
Though that would add about $300 to the price, if it makes for a
better system I'm OK with that.

I'd appreciate any comments you folks have to offer by way of
constructive criticism.

Thanks a ton!

Bob
Ontario, California

[sanitarium]

I seriously doubt you will be able to hear a difference in SQ at 45mph,
with either the top up or down. Maybe your ears are more sensitive than
mine. Crossfire makes some great amps. Now, if there is a substantial
(approximately double) wattage gain in upgrading to his Zapco
recommendation, then it might be worth the extra $$$. But then again
you dont sound like you really care to play the system at loud db levels.

Garrett

Bob wrote:
> I took some time Saturday to talk with the folks at a local stereo
> shop that was recommended by one of the regulars here. I'm concerned
> about both sound quality and SPL, though the latter only to the extent
> that I need to be able to hear the system at 80mph with the top down.
>
> The car is a 1999 BMW 3 series convertible (E36).
>
> Head Unit: Factory Alpine
> Front Speakers: CDT CL-61
> Subs: 2 Crossfire CF-210 in a free air/infinite baffle install in the
> trunk
> Amps: Crossfire VR-302 and VR-402
>
> Plus all the cables, wiring, sound deadener in the trunk, etc. etc.,
> etc.
>
> We did discuss going with four Zapco amps instead of the Crossfires.
> Though that would add about $300 to the price, if it makes for a
> better system I'm OK with that.
>
> I'd appreciate any comments you folks have to offer by way of
> constructive criticism.
>
> Thanks a ton!
>
> Bob
> Ontario, California

[Bob]

sanitarium > wrote in message >...
> I seriously doubt you will be able to hear a difference in SQ at 45mph,
> with either the top up or down. Maybe your ears are more sensitive than
> mine. Crossfire makes some great amps. Now, if there is a substantial
> (approximately double) wattage gain in upgrading to his Zapco
> recommendation, then it might be worth the extra $$$. But then again
> you dont sound like you really care to play the system at loud db levels.
>
> Garrett
>

Well not quite true (the last sentence, that is). I do like to turn
it up, though if you mean in the sense of SPL competition or such
you're right. I can't really say how loud I want it to be. How would
you measure that anyway? "I want to have a stereo that will have no
distortion when played loud enough to annoy neighbors in the next
county."

I used to have a system that could, without distortion I could hear,
be played loud enough to have your ears ringing when you turned the
stereo off. But that's not really a goal anymore. I'm pushing 40 and
I'd like to not have to lean over and shout "Huh!" every time someone
says something to me when I'm 60. LOL

Bob
Ontario, California

[Daniel Snooks]

"Bob" > wrote in message
om...
> I took some time Saturday to talk with the folks at a local stereo
> shop that was recommended by one of the regulars here. I'm concerned
> about both sound quality and SPL, though the latter only to the extent
> that I need to be able to hear the system at 80mph with the top down.
>
> The car is a 1999 BMW 3 series convertible (E36).
>
> Head Unit: Factory Alpine
> Front Speakers: CDT CL-61
> Subs: 2 Crossfire CF-210 in a free air/infinite baffle install in the
> trunk
> Amps: Crossfire VR-302 and VR-402

> We did discuss going with four Zapco amps instead of the Crossfires.
> Though that would add about $300 to the price, if it makes for a
> better system I'm OK with that.

Which line of Zapco amps?

> I'd appreciate any comments you folks have to offer by way of
> constructive criticism.

Three items :

1) I don't understand the choice of amplifiers. A single VR-804 would do a
better job then both the 302 and 402 put together. It seems that the
speakers will be underpowered ... never a good thing if you want the top
down at 80mph.
I would suggest the VR-402 for the CDTs (100W x 2 @ 4ohm) and a VR-900
for the subs (225W x 2 @ 4ohm)
2) Are the subs going to be run in stereo then?
3) Why would you need four Zapco amps?
If you did use Zapco, I would suggest the following :
for the Competition line ... a Z300C2-SLX for the CDTs (75W x 2 @ 4ohm) and
a Z200C2-SL for the subs (320W x1 @ 2ohm)
for the Studio line ... a pair of 300X which would give the CDTs
(150W x 2 @ 4ohm) and the subs (150W x 2 @ 4ohm)
for the Reference line ... a 350 for the CDTs (100W x 2 @ 4ohm) and a
750 for the subs (175W x 2 @ 4ohm)

A nice feature of the Competition and Reference lines is the Symbilink. I
don't know if you want to get that involved, but balanced is better.

Perhaps you could swing a deal with the shop giving you the option of trying
the VR-302 and VR-402, to see if they provide enough power for your tastes.
But letting you exchange them for something more powerful if you aren't
satisfied (without charging labour for the exchange). It just seems to me
that if they recommend a particular setup after discussing your goals with
you, and you end up disappointed, they should make it right.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[74DartSport]

Might see if they have kick panels for your car. Might add $150 or so to
get both sides up front done but I'd think in a convertible this would help
SQ quite a bit. If Q-Logic doesn't make them you might see if they can fab.
them up for you for a reasonable price.
Jared

"Bob" > wrote in message
om...
> sanitarium > wrote in message
>...
> > I seriously doubt you will be able to hear a difference in SQ at 45mph,
> > with either the top up or down. Maybe your ears are more sensitive than
> > mine. Crossfire makes some great amps. Now, if there is a substantial
> > (approximately double) wattage gain in upgrading to his Zapco
> > recommendation, then it might be worth the extra $$$. But then again
> > you dont sound like you really care to play the system at loud db
levels.
> >
> > Garrett
> >
>
> Well not quite true (the last sentence, that is). I do like to turn
> it up, though if you mean in the sense of SPL competition or such
> you're right. I can't really say how loud I want it to be. How would
> you measure that anyway? "I want to have a stereo that will have no
> distortion when played loud enough to annoy neighbors in the next
> county."
>
> I used to have a system that could, without distortion I could hear,
> be played loud enough to have your ears ringing when you turned the
> stereo off. But that's not really a goal anymore. I'm pushing 40 and
> I'd like to not have to lean over and shout "Huh!" every time someone
> says something to me when I'm 60. LOL
>
> Bob
> Ontario, California

[442Tango]

bottom posting

Bob wrote:

> I took some time Saturday to talk with the folks at a local stereo
> shop that was recommended by one of the regulars here. I'm concerned
> about both sound quality and SPL, though the latter only to the extent
> that I need to be able to hear the system at 80mph with the top down.
>

I'm using the original speakers and amp for the highs in my 1996 328ic
convertible. I removed the cover for the "ski boot", which is not
functional in the convertible anyhow. The trunk is too well sealed, if you
mount a subwoofer there, you have to run so much power, everyone in the
county EXCEPT you will be able to hear it. I found just enough room to
mount one of the 8" square speakers made by Kicker inside the area, hooked
it up to a 200w SoundStream Angina single channel amp, mounted behind the
right rear passenger seat (the BMW original amp is mounted behind the left
rear seat). Had a fair amount of difficulty running the signal cables up
to the Pioneer head, BMW fills up the space between the carpet and car
with foam. Ran the power feed back to the battery in passenger side of the
trunk with a good fuse.
Plenty of volume, plenty of bass (the 8" square speaker has the same area
as a 10" round speaker). One other big advantage: my modifications cannot
be seen at all when the car is parked (other than the Pioneer head, which
has a removable faceplate), so likelihood of vandalism or theft is
removed.
Hope this helps.
Jim