Sorry - newbie question - I dont understand ohms

[Alan Meade]

I just need someone to explain to me simply and easily with an example :0
I've tried reading up on the net and FAQS, but still cant grip it. The
lower ohms an amp can handle - the better? Ack ,... I just dont get it :0

Thanks
Alan Meade

[n8 skow]

Well, that totally depends on your needs...

Originally amps were designed to handle lower impedances so you could run
multiple woofers off the same amp. It's pretty much a moot point these days
though since multi-voice coil woofers are so proficient with multiple
impedances to offer numerous wiring configurations...

n8



> I just need someone to explain to me simply and easily with an example :0
> I've tried reading up on the net and FAQS, but still cant grip it. The
> lower ohms an amp can handle - the better? Ack ,... I just dont get it :0
>
> Thanks
> Alan Meade

[Daniel Snooks]

Alan Meade wrote
> I just need someone to explain to me simply and easily with an example :0
> I've tried reading up on the net and FAQS, but still cant grip it. The
> lower ohms an amp can handle - the better? Ack ,... I just dont get it :0
>
> Thanks
> Alan Meade

How good an amp is has nothing to do with the impedance (ohms) it is rated
to handle. Boiled right down, the whole point is to ensure that people know
how the speakers they want to run off of said amp will need to be wired so
that the amp does not get damaged.

Here are the examples:
1) amp is rated 50W x 2 @ 2ohm, 100W x 1 @ 4ohm. 3 possible ways (there are
many others) to wire speakers are ... a pair of 2ohm speakers in stereo (50W
x 2 @ 2ohm), a single 4ohm speaker in mono (100W x 1 @ 4ohm), and a pair of
8ohm speakers wired parallel (both + together, and both - together) in mono
(100W x 1 @ 8/2 ohm) When you wire the pair of 8ohm speakers in parallel,
the result is a 4ohm load (8/2). Any of these 3 options will keep the amp
happy.

2) the same amp as above. WRONG way of wiring speakers ... a pair of 2ohm
speakers wired parallel in mono (100W x 1 @ 1ohm) As you can see, wiring the
pair of 2ohm speakers in parallel results in a 1ohm (2/2) load which will
cause excessive current to overheat/destroy the amp (if voltage remains
constant, and in this case it does, when the resistance (ohms) decreases the
current will increase.

Hope that helps

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[-E-F-F-E-N-D-I-]

Damn Daniel!!, way to shut down another newbie. I mean yeah he is totally
wrong and **** but lord god you need to lighten up on this dude right here.
Just send him here instead.
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm . And how is Road Gear
crap?? do you have first hand experience? I would really like to know why
you think it is not good. I have used many road gear amps to power small
speakers with low power handling capabilities like tweeters and smaller
woofers. I dont see why someone should spend more than necessary. It is just
crazy what some people think is crap and then they go blow 10+G's on their
so called audiophile system that to most people sounds like ****. you know
aint none of my hoodfellas gon do that ****. money aint come easy to most
people. i dunno bout you.

and another thing. your example with the 50w x 2 channel amp. Is the amp
stable at lower impedances? I think a good amp will be able to deliver lower
impedances so you can get the most power output, and more wiring options
down the road if you wish to upgrade or change speakers or whatever. When i
look at purchasing an amp i always look for one that can deliver low ohm
loads. To me, that is a better amp. How is wiring two 2 ohm speakers in
parallel the wrong way? It is just another option of wiring. The amp is not
necessarily going to overheat or become damaged if it can deliver higher
current at those lower impedances. I have wired amps rated for 4ohms "only"
and had impedances stable lower than 1 ohm with proper ventilation. im not
condoning trying to do that to every amp you own because in most cases it
will overheat and go into protection or just "die". Your
statements/examples are not accurate unless you provide all the
possibilities. no hard feelins or nothing just tell all sides of the story
nah mean?



EFFENDI

"Daniel Snooks" > wrote in message
.. .
> Alan Meade wrote
> > I just need someone to explain to me simply and easily with an example
:0
> > I've tried reading up on the net and FAQS, but still cant grip it. The
> > lower ohms an amp can handle - the better? Ack ,... I just dont get it
:0
> >
> > Thanks
> > Alan Meade
>
> How good an amp is has nothing to do with the impedance (ohms) it is rated
> to handle. Boiled right down, the whole point is to ensure that people
know
> how the speakers they want to run off of said amp will need to be wired so
> that the amp does not get damaged.
>
> Here are the examples:
> 1) amp is rated 50W x 2 @ 2ohm, 100W x 1 @ 4ohm. 3 possible ways (there
are
> many others) to wire speakers are ... a pair of 2ohm speakers in stereo
(50W
> x 2 @ 2ohm), a single 4ohm speaker in mono (100W x 1 @ 4ohm), and a pair
of
> 8ohm speakers wired parallel (both + together, and both - together) in
mono
> (100W x 1 @ 8/2 ohm) When you wire the pair of 8ohm speakers in parallel,
> the result is a 4ohm load (8/2). Any of these 3 options will keep the amp
> happy.
>
> 2) the same amp as above. WRONG way of wiring speakers ... a pair of 2ohm
> speakers wired parallel in mono (100W x 1 @ 1ohm) As you can see, wiring
the
> pair of 2ohm speakers in parallel results in a 1ohm (2/2) load which will
> cause excessive current to overheat/destroy the amp (if voltage remains
> constant, and in this case it does, when the resistance (ohms) decreases
the
> current will increase.
>
> Hope that helps
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dan Snooks
>
>

[-E-F-F-E-N-D-I-]

"Daniel Snooks" > wrote in message
.. .
> -E-F-F-E-N-D-I- wrote
> > Damn Daniel!!, way to shut down another newbie. I mean yeah he is
totally
> > wrong and **** but lord god you need to lighten up on this dude right
> here.
>
> What are you talking about? Look at the tone of my reply. I am not flaming
> him at all. I answered his question, and then showed the examples that he
> asked for.
>
> > Just send him here instead.
> > http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm .
>
> That looks like a very informative site ... however I didn't see anything
on
> it that addresses his question of how an amps impedance rating relates to
> it's quality.
>
> > And how is Road Gear
> > crap??
>
> Build quality, durability, bogus ratings to boost sales ... do we really
> need to debate how good Road Gear is? I apologize, I should have said that
> Road Gear is considered sub-par when compared to most brands on the market
> such as Kenwood, Pioneer, Sony, Kicker, JVC, Blau, Alpine, JL,
Soundstream,
> etc ... how politically correct do we need to be here?
> BTW, is this reply posted to the wrong thread? el-kirbo is the one that
was
> looking to tinker with the Road Gear amplifier, not Alan.

sorry it is usually 2 or 3 in the morning whan i get home from work and i
get all **** mixed up in here. anyways i do think Road Gear really is **** -
i was just ****in with you. you really do take **** too serious around here.
anyways i bought a couple used road gear amps to power tweeters and stuff.
they worked but of course there is better.


> > do you have first hand experience?
>
> With Road Gear? Not in my own vehicle, but back in high school some kids
> used it and I never met any that were satisfied.
>
> > I would really like to know why
> > you think it is not good.
>
> See answer above .
>
> > I have used many road gear amps to power small
> > speakers with low power handling capabilities like tweeters and smaller
> > woofers. I dont see why someone should spend more than necessary. It is
> just
> > crazy what some people think is crap and then they go blow 10+G's on
their
> > so called audiophile system that to most people sounds like ****. you
know
> > aint none of my hoodfellas gon do that ****. money aint come easy to
most
> > people. i dunno bout you.
>
> I am glad you have had success without blowing the budget. Money does not
> come easily to me either, but that is one of the reasons that make me
weigh
> all the options when choosing to purchase equipment. The lowest price
> doesn't make something the best deal.
>
> > and another thing. your example with the 50w x 2 channel amp. Is the amp
> > stable at lower impedances?
>
> I created an example and the idea is to use the supplied information to
> decide what wiring options are available. If you looked at the literature
on
> an amplifier and it gave the rated output power as 50W x 2 @ 2ohm, and
100W
> x 1 @ 4ohm, would you call the manufacturer to check and see if the amp is
> stable at lower impedances?
>
> > I think a good amp will be able to deliver lower
> > impedances so you can get the most power output, and more wiring options
> > down the road if you wish to upgrade or change speakers or whatever.
>
> That's fine, but not true.
why? it is opinion not fact.

There are more "good" amps then I care to list
> that are only stable to 4ohm mono. Having more wiring options is nice, but
> understanding the limitations of your equipment, and building the system
> accordingly works too.
>
> > When i
> > look at purchasing an amp i always look for one that can deliver low ohm
> > loads. To me, that is a better amp.
>
> Why? Have you noticed that THD increases substantially when you drop the
> impedance of the load? Sucking more current out of the amp is not really
the
> beter way to get more volume. I would be inclined to choose the amp that
> delivers 300W RMS into 4ohm over the one that delivers 300W RMS into 2ohm.

well thats the difference between you and me .
I think the whole THD thing is really blown out of porpotion. If it is less
than 0.5% it really isnt audible. and who cares if it is a sub amp you wont
hear those frequencies substantially anyway. this has been discussed and the
differences are negligible between impedances.

> >How is wiring two 2 ohm speakers in
> > parallel the wrong way?
>
> In keeping with the example I was giving. There is no indication that the
> amp can survive with a stereo load less then 2ohm or a mono load less than
> 4ohm.
>
> > It is just another option of wiring. The amp is not
> > necessarily going to overheat or become damaged if it can deliver higher
> > current at those lower impedances.
>
> The amp will not have a choice. It MUST deliver the higher current at
lower
> impedance (unless the voltage drops magically) whether it is desgned to
> handle it or not.
>
> > I have wired amps rated for 4ohms "only"
> > and had impedances stable lower than 1 ohm with proper ventilation. im
not
> > condoning trying to do that to every amp you own because in most cases
it
> > will overheat and go into protection or just "die".
>
> So you agree that the best way to approach the situation is to follow the
> manufacturers recommendations? My thoughts exactly.
>
> >Your
> > statements/examples are not accurate unless you provide all the
> > possibilities. no hard feelins or nothing just tell all sides of the
story
> > nah mean?
>
> My statements ARE accurate given the information I presented.
sorry i didnt mean to say you were wrong, you just didnt provide enough
information.
There is not
> enough time to provide all the possibilities, life is too short.

AGREED!
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dan Snooks
>
>

[Daniel Snooks]

-E-F-F-E-N-D-I- wrote
> sorry it is usually 2 or 3 in the morning whan i get home from work and i
> get all **** mixed up in here. anyways i do think Road Gear really is
**** -
> i was just ****in with you. you really do take **** too serious around
here.
> anyways i bought a couple used road gear amps to power tweeters and stuff.
> they worked but of course there is better.

I wouldn't say that I take things too seriously, but whatever.

> > > I think a good amp will be able to deliver lower
> > > impedances so you can get the most power output, and more wiring
options
> > > down the road if you wish to upgrade or change speakers or whatever.
> >
> > That's fine, but not true.

> why? it is opinion not fact.

It is not the opinion that I was referring to, it was the idea that running
lower impedances will get the most power output, which makes an amp good. At
the end of the day, the "system" will be good if the equipment is installed
properly, and good planning is observed. Using an amp that can handle low
impedance loads really has nothing to do with creating a good system.

> well thats the difference between you and me .
> I think the whole THD thing is really blown out of porpotion. If it is
less
> than 0.5% it really isnt audible. and who cares if it is a sub amp you
wont
> hear those frequencies substantially anyway. this has been discussed and
the
> differences are negligible between impedances.

That may be true, but if someone is running the amp up near it's max power
output the distortion will be magnified. This is the biggest single factor
behind the idea of oversizing the amp for the given load. With the gains set
properly, you won't overdrive the speakers, but even when you are
approaching the limits of the speakers power handling the amp is not working
very hard.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[-E-F-F-E-N-D-I-]

aight man whatever. im sure that you could go on spoutin for days so jus put
the **** to sleep homie.

EFFENDI

"Daniel Snooks" > wrote in message
...
> -E-F-F-E-N-D-I- wrote
> > sorry it is usually 2 or 3 in the morning whan i get home from work and
i
> > get all **** mixed up in here. anyways i do think Road Gear really is
> **** -
> > i was just ****in with you. you really do take **** too serious around
> here.
> > anyways i bought a couple used road gear amps to power tweeters and
stuff.
> > they worked but of course there is better.
>
> I wouldn't say that I take things too seriously, but whatever.
>
> > > > I think a good amp will be able to deliver lower
> > > > impedances so you can get the most power output, and more wiring
> options
> > > > down the road if you wish to upgrade or change speakers or whatever.
> > >
> > > That's fine, but not true.
>
> > why? it is opinion not fact.
>
> It is not the opinion that I was referring to, it was the idea that
running
> lower impedances will get the most power output, which makes an amp good.
At
> the end of the day, the "system" will be good if the equipment is
installed
> properly, and good planning is observed. Using an amp that can handle low
> impedance loads really has nothing to do with creating a good system.
>
> > well thats the difference between you and me .
> > I think the whole THD thing is really blown out of porpotion. If it is
> less
> > than 0.5% it really isnt audible. and who cares if it is a sub amp you
> wont
> > hear those frequencies substantially anyway. this has been discussed and
> the
> > differences are negligible between impedances.
>
> That may be true, but if someone is running the amp up near it's max power
> output the distortion will be magnified. This is the biggest single factor
> behind the idea of oversizing the amp for the given load. With the gains
set
> properly, you won't overdrive the speakers, but even when you are
> approaching the limits of the speakers power handling the amp is not
working
> very hard.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dan Snooks
>
>

[Soundfreak03]

>aight man whatever. im sure that you could go on spoutin for days so jus put
>the **** to sleep homie.
>
>EFFENDI

I thought you were leaving? Whatever happened to that?

[Daniel Snooks]

Soundfreak03 wrote
> >aight man whatever. im sure that you could go on spoutin for days so jus
put
> >the **** to sleep homie.
> >
> >EFFENDI
>
> I thought you were leaving? Whatever happened to that?

I guess he forgets that when it is 3am and he needs to rant.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

?homie?