Re: Re: Pioneer DEH-P840MP, infinity kappa 693.5i and kappa 50.5cs component.

[bakulaw]

You need an at least 85w amplifier.It will be a lot better.Your stock
speaker sounds better because your head unit can handle the wattage of
your stock speakers.
--
bakulaw
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[Paul Vina]

Your stock
> speaker sounds better because your head unit can handle the wattage of
> your stock speakers.

Speakers don't produce power, they absorb it. It sounds better because the
HU provides more power to his stock speakers.

Paul Vina

[No Notta]

its not power that kills a speaker....to a point...its under driving them
and putting them into DC or square wave....read distortion
"Paul Vina" > wrote in message
news:rDa2b.248850$uu5.55238@sccrnsc04...
>
> Your stock
> > speaker sounds better because your head unit can handle the wattage of
> > your stock speakers.
>
> Speakers don't produce power, they absorb it. It sounds better because
the
> HU provides more power to his stock speakers.
>
> Paul Vina
>
>
>

[Paul Vina]

Wrong. All a square wave does is show the speaker more power which is what
ultimately will kill it. If it was distortion then most rap and metal would
destroy a speaker in seconds.

Paul Vina


"No Notta" > wrote in message
...
> its not power that kills a speaker....to a point...its under driving them
> and putting them into DC or square wave....read distortion
> "Paul Vina" > wrote in message
> news:rDa2b.248850$uu5.55238@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > Your stock
> > > speaker sounds better because your head unit can handle the wattage of
> > > your stock speakers.
> >
> > Speakers don't produce power, they absorb it. It sounds better because
> the
> > HU provides more power to his stock speakers.
> >
> > Paul Vina
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Soundfreak03]

>its not power that kills a speaker....to a point...its under driving them
>and putting them into DC or square wave....read distortion

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Underdriving them will NOT blow them. An amplifier does NOT produce DC when an
amp clips or distorts.
Alternating DC current does NOT make sense. (Courtesy of Mark for that)
Do a little research and dont believe another audio myth.

Les

[No Notta]

another expert, when an amp goes into distortion it produces square wave
over tax an amp, makes distortion wrecks speakers, overdrive a speaker with
good clean and lots of power they will go above and beyond
"Soundfreak03" > wrote in message
...
> >its not power that kills a speaker....to a point...its under driving
them
> >and putting them into DC or square wave....read distortion
>
> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
> Underdriving them will NOT blow them. An amplifier does NOT produce DC
when an
> amp clips or distorts.
> Alternating DC current does NOT make sense. (Courtesy of Mark for that)
> Do a little research and dont believe another audio myth.
>
> Les
>

[Daniel Snooks]

No Notta wrote
> another expert, when an amp goes into distortion it produces square wave
> over tax an amp, makes distortion wrecks speakers, overdrive a speaker
with
> good clean and lots of power they will go above and beyond

Are you suggesting that you are another expert, or is that a sarcastic
remark aimed at Soundfreak03?

The amp will not produce a square wave unless it is being supplied with a
square wave signal. As for the whole lack of power/too much power/distortion
damages speakers deal, do we really have to fire up another 600 post thread
about it? Just search the archives and read the other 600 post threads, then
pick your own personal champion from there.

For the record, my personal belief is that you should refrain from using
>75% of resources available from any part of an electrical or mechanical
system (including but not limited to amps and speakers) Technically, there
is nothing wrong with running a 125W RMS speaker using a 1500W RMS
amplifier, as long as you ensure that you don't exceed ~100W when the system
is running. Doesn't make a lot of sense to do that, after all a 125W amp
would accomplish the same thing, but hey, whatever floats yer boat.

If people want to run their systems at the extreme edge of what the
components can handle, they have to be willing to accept the failure of
those components.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

[Soundfreak03]

>Are you suggesting that you are another expert, or is that a sarcastic
>remark aimed at Soundfreak03?
>

I think he aimed that at me, even though he is just another "expert" who
believes audio myths that somehow defy physics.

BTW: You can just write Les, thats my name, and it much shorter than the other
thing :) Hey if your as lazy as me then it helps :)

Les

[james w]

Regarding that statement someone made that distiortion doesn't kill
speakers, it depends on what is distorting and how the distortion manifests.

When I say that under powering a speaker is the most common cause of blowing
a speaker I am referring to the tendency of some people to turn up an
underpowered system to the point that the power amp clips.
Typically a musical signal has peaks. When it clips, it has plateaus. It is
these full power plateaus that can kill speakers, especially tweeters. I
imagine, that with a powerful enough amp, you could kill a sub by pushing
the amp into clip mode too.


"Soundfreak03" > wrote in message
...
> >another expert, when an amp goes into distortion it produces square wave
> >over tax an amp, makes distortion wrecks speakers, overdrive a speaker
with
> >good clean and lots of power they will go above and beyond
>
> Yes compared to you I am an expert. You are SO VERY WRONG on this.
> Distortion DOES NOT DESTROY speakers. Plain and simple. That square wave
DOES
> NOT destroy speakers (most of the time) What does blow speakers is
overdriving
> them with lots of power, the very thing you recommend. If you continually
put
> more power than what the speaker can handle THEY WILL BLOW.
> Square waves do not put out DC, your very wrong on that. A distorted amp
does
> not either. Nor is it bad for speakers inheretly. I can make the most
horribly
> clipped file burn it to a disc and play it on a system for days and it
will not
> blow the speakers, provided I do not exceed thier power limits.
> So Mr. Expert if you still think that distortion can destroy speakers then
lets
> get into an indepth discussion why. But I get the sneaking feeling you
have
> already spoken the limits of your knowledge. Another "expert" who believes
> every audio myth.
>
> Les

[Nousaine]

"james w" wrote:

>Regarding that statement someone made that distiortion doesn't kill
>speakers, it depends on what is distorting and how the distortion manifests.

Too much power kills speakers. Distortion products are just 'sound' to any
given speaker. Square waves are the same. Put a 10 kHz square wave into a
speaker and the 2nd harmonic distortion product occurs at 20kHz. All the others
are well outside hte passband of the transducer.

The idea that "clipping" kills speaker is just one of those Urban Legends that
has a grain of truth but mostly Legend.

For example IF 'clipping' were the major element I should be able to burn out
tweeters with by playing a square wave into any Walkman and fry the **** out of
any speaker.connected to the output terminals.

>
>When I say that under powering a speaker is the most common cause of blowing
>a speaker I am referring to the tendency of some people to turn up an
>underpowered system to the point that the power amp clips.
>Typically a musical signal has peaks. When it clips, it has plateaus. It is
>these full power plateaus that can kill speakers, especially tweeters. I
>imagine, that with a powerful enough amp, you could kill a sub by pushing
>the amp into clip mode too.

This is the typical case: playing any system as loud as it will go will usually
put 10-15 watts into a tweeter for longer than it likes. If you want to burn it
out FASTER use a bigger amplifier.

[Soundfreak03]

>Regarding that statement someone made that distiortion doesn't kill
>speakers,

That was me :)

it depends on what is distorting and how the distortion manifests.

No it does not. I am gonna repeat this one more time for you guys who believe
in audio myths. DISTORTION DOES NOT KILL SPEAKERS. I do not care how it
manifests itself it will not destroy speakers. If distortion blew speakers then
ALL of our speakers would blow on a weekly basis.



>When I say that under powering a speaker is the most common cause of blowing
>a speaker I am referring to the tendency of some people to turn up an
>underpowered system to the point that the power amp clips.

So??? It sounds bad. But even then underpowering did NOT blow the speaker did
it?


>Typically a musical signal has peaks. When it clips, it has plateaus. It is
>these full power plateaus that can kill speakers, especially tweeters.

And how do these "full power plateaus" kill speakers? Do you actually realize
the amount of power your actually talking about. Potentially you could send
alot of power in SEVERE and extended clipping.
I will agree with the tweeter thing to some degree. They are easier to blow
than a woofer.


> I
>imagine, that with a powerful enough amp, you could kill a sub by pushing
>the amp into clip mode too.

If the amp is capable of putting out more power than the speaker can handle
then yes it can blow them. If your amp is equal in power (honestly) to the
speaker then clipping may damage it, if it is extended and repeated.. If it is
rated the same and you produce prolonged severe clipping then yes you might
blow the woofers.
BUT the idea that underpowering will do it is incorrect. and the idea that
distortion will do it is wrong. What destroys speakers is TOO MUCH POWER.
If anyone else like Mark or Eddie could explain better than me then feel free
to join in. Maybe I dont explain it right since there is that "expert" that
thinks underpowering can destroy a speaker.

Les