Holy Crap!...For Major Lovers of Low End

[Analogeezer]

Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095

I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
like?

Analogeezer

[I. Care]

In article >,
says...
> Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095
>
> I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> like?
>
> Analogeezer
>
How about these?

http://www.krellonline.com/html/m_MRS_p_MRS.html

I.Care
Addy fake until the spam goes away

[John Halliburton]

http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html

Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll have
lots of money left over.

John Halliburton
Servodrive/Sound Physics Labs, Inc.

[Thomas Bishop]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
> http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
>
> Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll have
> lots of money left over.

Okay, John, your shameless advertising has finally made me actually check
out the web site. Now I'm curious as to the pricing.

[Jonny Durango]

the krell have 120db's of output @ 2600 watts....this one is 110db's @ 1600

--

Jonny Durango

http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.



"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
m...
> http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
>
> Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll have
> lots of money left over.
>
> John Halliburton
> Servodrive/Sound Physics Labs, Inc.
>
>

[Scott Dorsey]

John Halliburton > wrote:
>http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
>
>Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll have
>lots of money left over.

Sheesh. NOW we know where Hussein hid the weapons of mass destruction.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Jonny Durango > wrote:
>the krell have 120db's of output @ 2600 watts....this one is 110db's @ 1600

At what frequency?

The Servodrives also have amazingly low bass distortion too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ray Abbitt]

In article <7bN3c.90$bP2.1380@attbi_s53>,
Jonny Durango > wrote:
>the krell have 120db's of output @ 2600 watts....this one is 110db's @ 1600

Better look at them specs a little closer. That 110 db is a sensitivity
figure measured with 2.8 volts input (1 watt into 8 ohms). I'll let you
do the math to see how little power they need for 120 db. (Just a hint--
with the same input you would be looking at less than 90 db from the Krell)

-ray

[John Halliburton]

>
> Better look at them specs a little closer. That 110 db is a sensitivity
> figure measured with 2.8 volts input (1 watt into 8 ohms). I'll let you
> do the math to see how little power they need for 120 db. (Just a hint--
> with the same input you would be looking at less than 90 db from the
Krell)

Thank you Ray. At 2600watts(which admittedly is a bit past full rated power
on the BDeap), you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them-at least
an average family room. The people who are happily doing this have so much
headroom they are also able to eq the system flat to nearly 20hz.

Oh, and if you don't have the room(or approving S.O.), you can always get a
Contrabass. At 8 cubic feet of box volume, this Servodrive product has an
F3 of 16hz, and with 200watts input continous, it will produce 114db at the
16hz mark, with less than 1% distortion. Very, very impressive.

Best regards,

John

[John Halliburton]

> The Servodrives also have amazingly low bass distortion too.
> --scott

FYI Scott, the BDeap is not servomotor driven. It is a twin 12"
driver(custom made) horn. Power handling is 1200watts continous, and we
usually run them with around 2kw of available amplifier power on music.

Best regards,

John

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Jonny Durango > wrote:
>
>> the krell have 120db's of output @ 2600 watts....this one is 110db's @ 1600
>
>
> At what frequency?
>
> The Servodrives also have amazingly low bass distortion too.

Shockingly, disturbingly, unnervingly low distortion when used as SUBwoofers. Think 60 Hz crossover. May not sound natural at first to most listeners since very few have ever heard undistorted output at those sorts of levels at those sorts of frequencies.

[John Halliburton]

Contractor price is under $2k USD.

> Okay, John, your shameless advertising has finally made me actually check
> out the web site. Now I'm curious as to the pricing.

It's not shameless, it's pride. I'm not in marketing or sales(although I'll
certainly make a pitch), I produce them. Having stuck my head in a lot of
different low frequency reproducers over the past 18 years has led me to
some conclusions. The primary one is that there is no better line of
subwoofers out there at any price. The Krell is ungodly expensive, as are
many high end audio speakers, and it just isn't needed. I've got customers
installing BDeaps and Runts and even TD1s for audio systems in homes. Why?
Because the sound quality is unmatched. I've become so spoiled over the
last three years that I have finally produced my own Trik Traps to replace
my old top boxes in my PA, which weren't bad at all, as you might imagine.
I've got customers mixing some of the best live sound I've ever heard using
our stuff, and I've mixed on line arrays as well as the other usual
suspects.

BTW, we'll be putting on an audition at our booth at NSCA next week. We're
showing off the Runts, but there will be samples of all the products-some in
cutaway condition, so you can see how the Unity design is done.

Best regards and climbing off my soapbox again,

John

[Geoff Wood]

John Halliburton wrote:

>
> Oh, and if you don't have the room(or approving S.O.), you can always
> get a Contrabass. At 8 cubic feet of box volume, this Servodrive
> product has an F3 of 16hz, and with 200watts input continous, it will
> produce 114db at the 16hz mark, with less than 1% distortion. Very,
> very impressive.

1% distortion ?!! At level with my Carvin R1000 at moderate volume through
my Acme LowB4 bass cab, most *rooms* seem to give very audible distorion !

geoff

[DrBoom]

(Analogeezer) wrote in message >...
> Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095

You are easily impressed. I spent the better part of the 90's in car
audio, and I can tell you that 4 15's is no big deal in that world.
Eight 18's would get respect, but only if you had a few honest
kilowatts to drive them with.

> I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> like?

5 string bass? B0 is only ~31 Hz. I tried to shoot for response that
was still *rising* at the bottom of the range (15 Hz? been a while)
of my analyzer. I showed a few kiddies who thought rap/techno had
the baddest bass that Herr Bach's thirty-two foot toys are still
the heavyweight champions.

One of these basses would be cool, though:

http://www.jauqoiii-xreality.com/gal-lowend.html

C# @ 17.32 Hz ... the amp rig for that thing must be hell to
haul around. You'd have to tune the thing with higher harmonics,
though I'm not sure it matters if you're a few cents off at
subsonic frequencies.

It ain't real bass unless it physically breaks stuff in your car and
makes body panels look like they're breathing.

And now you know why my nom de net is...
-DrBoom

[Ray Abbitt]

In article >,
John Halliburton > wrote:
>
>Thank you Ray. At 2600watts(which admittedly is a bit past full rated power
>on the BDeap), you wouldn't want to be in the same room with them-at least
>an average family room. The people who are happily doing this have so much
>headroom they are also able to eq the system flat to nearly 20hz.
>
Hey, I've been paying attention to you (and Tom) for quite a while now.
Actually hoping to get the chance to meet you towards the end of the
month--aren't you coming to the amp shootout that Bink is putting on?
(I know the BDeap's and TD1's will be there. Just can't remember who from
SPL was going to accompany them.)

-ray

[Ray Abbitt]

In article >,
Geoff Wood -nospam> wrote:
>John Halliburton wrote:
>>
>> Oh, and if you don't have the room(or approving S.O.), you can always
>> get a Contrabass. At 8 cubic feet of box volume, this Servodrive
>> product has an F3 of 16hz, and with 200watts input continous, it will
>> produce 114db at the 16hz mark, with less than 1% distortion. Very,
>> very impressive.
>
>1% distortion ?!! At level with my Carvin R1000 at moderate volume through
>my Acme LowB4 bass cab, most *rooms* seem to give very audible distorion !
>
Believe it. John and Tom (Danley, SPL's creative genius) take speaker
system distortion very seriously. If you get a chance to hear any of
their bass boxes you will notice that they sound different than what
most people are used to. Because with most traditional bass bins, what
you hear is more harmonic distortion than fundamental. (Tom can explain
this a lot better than I can.) I suspect that with a couple of BDeap's
running at 1600 watts each (their rated power handling) most rooms will
have *physical* distortion.

-ray
boxes

[Mark & Mary Ann Weiss]

"Thomas Bishop" > wrote in message
gy.com...
> "John Halliburton" > wrote in message
> > http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
> >
> > Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll
have
> > lots of money left over.
>
> Okay, John, your shameless advertising has finally made me actually check
> out the web site. Now I'm curious as to the pricing.
>
>

Nah, all those are just tinker toys. How about this:
http://basspig.tripod.com/



--
Take care,

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss

VIDEO PRODUCTION . FILM SCANNING . AUDIO RESTORATION
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: http://www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
Business sites at:
www.dv-clips.com
www.mwcomms.com
www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
-

[Mitchell Benson]

Analogeezer wrote:
> Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095
>
> I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> like?
>
> Analogeezer

All you guys are ****in lightweights!

http://www.thecorestore.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=productDetails&ID=139

[Arny Krueger]

"Mark & Mary Ann Weiss" > wrote in message

> "Thomas Bishop" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
>> "John Halliburton" > wrote in message
>>> http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
>>>
>>> Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one,
>>> you'll have lots of money left over.
>>
>> Okay, John, your shameless advertising has finally made me actually
>> check out the web site. Now I'm curious as to the pricing.
>>
>>
>
> Nah, all those are just tinker toys. How about this:
> http://basspig.tripod.com/
>

Small Potatoes. People who like really deep bass should check out some of
the built-into-the house that Tom Nousaine reviewed for Audio, as well as
his own personal system. The holy grail for bass is >120 dB @ <10 Hz @ <
10% THD at the listener's location.

[Arny Krueger]

"Geoff Wood" -nospam> wrote in message

> John Halliburton wrote:
>
>>
>> Oh, and if you don't have the room(or approving S.O.), you can always
>> get a Contrabass. At 8 cubic feet of box volume, this Servodrive
>> product has an F3 of 16hz, and with 200watts input continous, it will
>> produce 114db at the 16hz mark, with less than 1% distortion. Very,
>> very impressive.

> 1% distortion ?!!

Servo woofers can do even better than that.

>At level with my Carvin R1000 at moderate volume
> through my Acme LowB4 bass cab, most *rooms* seem to give very
> audible distorion !

Room noise due to sympathetic vibration is a very serious problem. Some
subwoofer manufacturers who offer money-back guarantees end up taking some
product back because the new owners can't believe that all the distortion
they hear is generated by the room, when it is.

However, most if not all of the instruments that generate low bass have tons
more harmonics than even the 10% THD number I cited in another post. The
lowest rank on just about any organ has more harmonics than fundamental, so
THD is effectively > 100%. This nicely masks even 10% THD of the general
nature often seen from good subs.

[Geoff Wood]

Mark & Mary Ann Weiss wrote:

>
> Nah, all those are just tinker toys. How about this:
> http://basspig.tripod.com/

He sits on the rug, right ?

gepff

[Roger W. Norman]

Yeah, but it's BIG and HEAVY. I wish I was about 20 years younger because
then I wouldn't mind hauling the thing. It was one of the suggestions for a
system from Mark Seaton, although I'm not too sure.

BTW, I finally got a chance to listen to the Triks outdoors and they kick
butt (review to follow in a couple of days). Now I see why you're
interested in building your own, but I have to ask, why not just purchase
some from your own company? The only problem I had was trying to marry a
couple of different Karlton type subs. I found the horn coming in pretty
low, but finding that appropriate crossover for the sub was a bear. What
are you planning to use with your "trik-traps" in terms of a sub?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
m...
> http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
>
> Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll have
> lots of money left over.
>
> John Halliburton
> Servodrive/Sound Physics Labs, Inc.
>
>

[Roger W. Norman]

Kid's stuff.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mark & Mary Ann Weiss" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Thomas Bishop" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> > "John Halliburton" > wrote in message
> > > http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32.html
> > >
> > > Well, these beat the snot out of both of those, and with one, you'll
> have
> > > lots of money left over.
> >
> > Okay, John, your shameless advertising has finally made me actually
check
> > out the web site. Now I'm curious as to the pricing.
> >
> >
>
> Nah, all those are just tinker toys. How about this:
> http://basspig.tripod.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Take care,
>
> Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
>
> VIDEO PRODUCTION . FILM SCANNING . AUDIO RESTORATION
> Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: http://www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
> Business sites at:
> www.dv-clips.com
> www.mwcomms.com
> www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
> -
>
>
>

[Mark Tranchant]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> However, most if not all of the instruments that generate low bass have tons
> more harmonics than even the 10% THD number I cited in another post. The
> lowest rank on just about any organ has more harmonics than fundamental, so
> THD is effectively > 100%. This nicely masks even 10% THD of the general
> nature often seen from good subs.

Of course, the balance between the various harmonics is very important. A
nice pure even-harmonic source signal can be ruined by odd-order harmonic
distortion.

But I think your point here is that it's not worth getting upset over a
couple of percent at the low end.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

[Arny Krueger]

"Mark Tranchant" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> However, most if not all of the instruments that generate low bass
>> have tons more harmonics than even the 10% THD number I cited in
>> another post. The lowest rank on just about any organ has more
>> harmonics than fundamental, so THD is effectively > 100%. This
>> nicely masks even 10% THD of the general nature often seen from good
>> subs.
>
> Of course, the balance between the various harmonics is very
> important. A nice pure even-harmonic source signal can be ruined by
> odd-order harmonic distortion.

Name a natural bass source that puts out only even harmonics.

One can estimate how much nonlinear distortion will be audible to a serious
degree. If the amplitude of a harmonic varies by 1 dB, it will likely be
heard. Most bass instruments have individual low-order harmonics that are
actually larger than the fundamental. A good baseline estimate of these
harmonics is 100%. The amount of additional harmonic content due to
nonlinear distortion in the bass subsystem would be that which would change
the amplitude of these harmonics by 1 dB or about 10%. That nets out to
about 10% THD. It is important that the added harmonic structure
approximates the harmonic structure of the musical instrument. Excess higher
order harmonics are generally a no-no.

> But I think your point here is that it's not worth getting upset over
> a couple of percent at the low end.

In practice that seems to be what people can get away with. It's very costly
to reduce THD beyond a certain point in woofers that are playing very loud
at very low frequencies, so there is a strong motive to meet needs as
opposed to overkilling them.

In practice, incidental sources of nonlinear distortion, like sympathetic
panel motion in the walls, ceiling and floors; and resonances in the room
can overwhelm the nonlinear distortion in the speakers. If your floor has
30% THD, what do you do? Well, you brace it and stiffen it from below. But
what about the walls and ceiling?

Right now the dominant technology in subwoofers involves the use of very
long linear stroke drivers that are being built for the automotive sound
business. See JL Audio's W7 series.

Cabinet size is inimical, often no bigger than what it takes to enclose the
driver. There's no attempt at acoustically flat response. Instead, kilowatts
of amplifier power are squandered (or perhaps invested!) under the control
of equalizers that restore flat response in the room. You now Crown and QSC
and the rest make these 3-5 KW amps. I've seen a few subwoofers with their
own 230 volt feed, just like a clothes dryer or electric range. That way the
lights don't dim.

If you want a high-efficiency woofer that goes down to 10 Hz, you have to
build it into the structure. Most subwoofers are in some sense, an
architectural afterthought. Built-in subwoofers often end up needing some
eq because the box volume (usually the basement) is too large.

Up until lately my personal subwoofer was built in or around 1978 out of a
rebuilt "Earthquake" subwoofer that had been pulled from a theater when they
liquidated the leasing company. The original drivers and their amplifiers
were built by Cerwin Vega. My driver was rebuilt by some guys in Cleveland
using rebuild kits that appear to have been made by Sunn. The driver was
more than 95 dB/watt sensitive which led to an 18 cubic foot vented box with
F3 of about 22 Hz. It had measured flat to 20 Hz with the usual roll-off
below that, if you found a room large enough to not kick up the response at
low frequencies. This would be a pretty large warehouse. Most of its life it
was crossed-over to a pair of NHT 2.5is at 68 Hz with a 24 dB/oct crossover
(modified Rane MX22). It didn't take a lot of power to match the upper-range
system, I mostly ran it with half of a QSC USA 400.

The replacement system arguably outperforms it. It is composed of a
long-stroke nominal 12" driver in a 3 cubic foot sealed box. Equalization is
via a Rane PE-15. It is driven by about 500 watts and sounds pretty much the
same. I have a lot more flexibility about where I position it which is good
for sound quality and the WAF.

[John Halliburton]

I think my original boast remains intact...

John

[John Halliburton]

Mark Seaton is going out for sure. Not sure about Tom. I've got prior
commitments and can't make it. I will however be coming out to visit over
the summer.

John

[John Halliburton]

> Yeah, but it's BIG and HEAVY. I wish I was about 20 years younger because
> then I wouldn't mind hauling the thing. It was one of the suggestions for
a
> system from Mark Seaton, although I'm not too sure.

A BDEAP? I'll admit, it's larger than some,yet smaller than a Basstech 7,
but a dual 18" vented sub is about the same. Plus, with ours, you'd only
have to move half the number of cabinets.
>
> BTW, I finally got a chance to listen to the Triks outdoors and they kick
> butt (review to follow in a couple of days). Now I see why you're
> interested in building your own, but I have to ask, why not just purchase
> some from your own company? The only problem I had was trying to marry a
> couple of different Karlton type subs. I found the horn coming in pretty
> low, but finding that appropriate crossover for the sub was a bear. What
> are you planning to use with your "trik-traps" in terms of a sub?

When I first started with Intersonics, the predessor to Servodrive, I
was(and still am) a cabinetmaker who happened to have a degree in
electronics technology. This has been a marriage made in heaven. We no
longer build our own cabinets in house, but I still count cabinetmaking as a
big hobby. I've haven't bought a commercial home loudspeaker since the mid
seventies, and the Trik Traps are as close as I have come to "purchasing" a
PA speaker.

I suspect you mean "Karlson" horns? With horn subs, time alignment is a
bigger issue, and needs to be addressed. Are you using some kind of DSP
based loudspeaker management device(ie., dbx 260, Omnidrive, etc.)?

My personal subs for the PA have been a pair of Contrabasses, almost five
years now. I'm not in a big hurry to switch. If I do a large enough gig, I
try to get a BDEAP or Basstech 7. I may play around with a TrikSub,
basically a shifting of the TDSub cabinet to resemble the Trik Trap cabinet.
For most of my gigs, this would be a compact setup, which I need. I feel
the need for new monitors before that, however.

Best regards,

John
www.servodrive.com

[John Halliburton]

> > Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> > show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:

Hmmm, we put a single ContraBass into a Blazer one afternoon, and TEF
measurements showed dead flat, unprocessed output that didn't knee over
until 15hz. We were very worried that the windshield was going to come
loose.

I have had customers break windows in buildings with Servodrive subwoofers
in them.

Best regards,

John

[John Halliburton]

This costs a bit more, but should really not be stood in front of:
http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32_4.html

[Arny Krueger]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
om
>>> Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords
>>> and show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> Hmmm, we put a single ContraBass into a Blazer one afternoon, and TEF
> measurements showed dead flat, unprocessed output that didn't knee
> over until 15hz. We were very worried that the windshield was going
> to come loose.

Automotive is too easy for subs. You have that small room effct boost
starting around 50- Hz and ramping up at 12 dB/octave.

;-)

[Cossie]

"Mitchell Benson" > wrote in message
...
> Analogeezer wrote:
> > Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> > show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095
> >
> > I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> > like?
> >
> > Analogeezer
>
> All you guys are ****in lightweights!
>
> http://www.thecorestore.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=productDetails&ID=139
>

-10dB at 26Hz? -3dB at 35Hz? Not even close to the SPL subs.

John wins again.

Hey John, I'm still waiting for you to bring over a contrabass to the church
to show me what those digital 32' organ stops should REALLY sound like!

Bill Balmer

[hank alrich]

John Halliburton wrote:

> I think my original boast remains intact...

You're a professional. <g>

--
ha

[DrBoom]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message >...
> > > Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> > > show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> Hmmm, we put a single ContraBass into a Blazer one afternoon, and TEF
> measurements showed dead flat, unprocessed output that didn't knee over
> until 15hz. We were very worried that the windshield was going to come
> loose.

Flat? Then cabin gain must have been bringing up a fundamentally falling
response. I've done systems that had a computed 2nd order f3 of ~35Hz
that were still rising at subsonic frequencies. Not to say that your results
didn't sound great -- it's just that in-car testing is a lot different than the
usual half- or quarter-space measurements (or quasi-anechoic, for that
matter) most people do, and they have to be interpreted differently.

> I have had customers break windows in buildings with Servodrive subwoofers
> in them.

Given the unsupported area, lack of curvature, and low resonant frequency
of (presumably) residential glazing, I'm not surprised at all -- it's pretty
easy to hit the right note and watch things go to pieces. Electric organ
pedals and large picture windows are a fun combination, as we learned
at a friend's house when I was 11 or so.

If, however, they had broken tempered automotive glass, I'd be impressed.
Cracking a windshield doesn't count -- I've seen that happen with big but
not extreme systems.

-DrBoom

[Analogeezer]

(Analogeezer) wrote in message >...
> Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095
>
> I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> like?
>
> Analogeezer

OK guys, I have a bass rig (the instrument, not a PA) that has 18"
cabs, 15" cabs, and three 2 x 10" cabs (some with tweeters) driven by
three power amps and a total of 2500 watts.

At about 25 feet away the SPL off it feels like a bag of mulch hitting
your chest.

If I crank the highs on the tweeters, the rig will make your ears hurt
at 25 - 35 feet.

So I thought I was a sick puppy for putting this rig together but you
guys have validated that there are far, far, sicker people around than
me <g>

FWIW, the above system is fairly modular, and I've never had the
opportunity to take the entire thing out...still waiting on that
stadium comeback gig.

Most of the time at practice (which is usually held at another
location) I use a small Ampeg "mini-SVT" cabinet (eight 6.5" drivers
and a horn) driven by a 350 watt Ampeg B-2R head.

For the most part that rig is adequate, for larger things I'll bring
two 2 x 10"s powered by a 750 watt power amp.

You guys are very, very sick indeed <g>

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

Mitchell Benson > wrote in message >...
> Analogeezer wrote:
> > Get a pair of these in your car with a set of long extension cords and
> > show the local punkasses in their Civics what real low end is:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710409391&category=47095
> >
> > I wonder what a pair of these with a five string bass would sound
> > like?
> >
> > Analogeezer
>
> All you guys are ****in lightweights!
>
> http://www.thecorestore.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=productDetails&ID=139

MAN, I want a pair of those for my bass rig...now that is COOL!!!!!

I'm wondering what sort of HF horn you put on top of something like
this? Maybe a Minivan with a very large compression driver?

Analogeezer

[Analogeezer]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message >...
> This costs a bit more, but should really not be stood in front of:
> http://www.servodrive.com/SPL-bdeap32_4.html

Yeah, but I have to say it, the horn loaded ones with the guy standing
inside are way cooler looking.

And cool looking is what the dance crowd goes for right? Long as the
bass is loud?

Nothing against your products...love your site and you've got some
serious engineering going on there...best of luck.

Analogeezer

[John Halliburton]

> Automotive is too easy for subs. You have that small room effct boost
> starting around 50- Hz and ramping up at 12 dB/octave.

Oh, I know, we were just having a bit of fun. I forgot where we stopped
power wise, but it was unholy.

John

[John Halliburton]

>
> Yeah, but I have to say it, the horn loaded ones with the guy standing
> inside are way cooler looking.

Yeah, but nothing like puking from standing in front of ours for a few
minutes...;>)


> Nothing against your products...love your site and you've got some
> serious engineering going on there...best of luck.

As for stand-in subs, I need to dig up some pictures of the sonic boom
simulator we designed and built for Georgia Tech Research. Each 3hz sub
horn had opposing 6' long flares 5' high coming out of the central cabinet,
which was 4'x4'x2'. Imagine a bow tie if you were looking down at the
cabinetry.

Best regards,

John

[John Halliburton]

> John wins again.
>
> Hey John, I'm still waiting for you to bring over a contrabass to the
church
> to show me what those digital 32' organ stops should REALLY sound like!

Heck yeah! Actually, my system will be pretty warm after this weekend-three
major gigs for St. Pat's celebrations.
We should make arrangements sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Best regards,

John

[John Halliburton]

> You guys are very, very sick indeed <g>

Oh yeah.

John

[Ryan]

(DrBoom) wrote in message

> 5 string bass? B0 is only ~31 Hz. I tried to shoot for response that
> was still *rising* at the bottom of the range (15 Hz? been a while)
> of my analyzer. I showed a few kiddies who thought rap/techno had
> the baddest bass that Herr Bach's thirty-two foot toys are still
> the heavyweight champions.

Very interesting. Can you provide a little more information on this?
I googled it, but all I found out is that you're talking about a pipe
on a pipe organ, maybe only one specific pipe organ. If that's the
length, what's the diameter? Why do you refer to them as toys? Was
Bach actually involved in the manufacturing of these? I remember
watching a PBS show about some Avant Garde composer who made her own
instruments. One of them was some sort of wire, strecthed out over a
good twenty foot long soundboard. Your basic stringed instrument
setup. Sounded kind of like thunder, but with much more sustain.
Whatever kind of wire she was using, it was much too thick (at least a
good 1/2 inch) to belong to any type of standard instrument. Ring any
bells?

BTW, while we're talking about bass, anybody ever heard an electric
bass on record that sounded like Timpani? I have asked this before,
but never seem to get any anwsers. I still haven't relocated the
recordings that sound like this, but I know they are out there, and
there is more than a couple instances of them. Anybody know how this
is done?

[Bob Ross]

John Halliburton wrote:

> > You guys are very, very sick indeed <g>
>
> Oh yeah.

John, does ServoDrive/Intersonics still do work with infrasonic
levitators, or long-distance pachyderm communications? Now THAT was some
sick ****!

/Bob Ross

[Geoff Wood]

Analogeezer wrote:

> So I thought I was a sick puppy for putting this rig together but you
> guys have validated that there are far, far, sicker people around than
> me <g>

Well, a deaf puppy at least....

geoff

[John Halliburton]

> John, does ServoDrive/Intersonics still do work with infrasonic
> levitators
The levitation devices are ultrasonic, typically around 21-22khz.
Although they don't have much on the site, these are some of the guys that
Tom Danley worked with at Intersonics:
http://www.containerless.com


, or long-distance pachyderm communications? Now THAT was some
> sick ****!

I had the privilege of building the first pachyderm subs at Intersonics for
Tom. I took the first prototype out on a gig one weekend-ten cubic feet,
with dual 15" drive section, and four 18" passive radiators. F3 is 14hz,
and it could hit the same 114db level like a Contrabass, which is the
commercial version basically. It did the job quite successfully for the
Cornell researchers.

Best regards,

John

[Romeo Rondeau]

> I had the privilege of building the first pachyderm subs at Intersonics
for
> Tom. I took the first prototype out on a gig one weekend-ten cubic feet,
> with dual 15" drive section, and four 18" passive radiators. F3 is 14hz,
> and it could hit the same 114db level like a Contrabass, which is the
> commercial version basically. It did the job quite successfully for the
> Cornell researchers.

I looked at your site, I could barely catch the drool before it hit the
keyboard. Man, I would love to have a few of those subs :-) BTW, anytime you
want to send me some to evaluate, feel free <g> Just don't expect them back
:-)

[DrBoom]

(Ryan) wrote in message >...
> (DrBoom) wrote in message
>
> > 5 string bass? B0 is only ~31 Hz. I tried to shoot for response that
> > was still *rising* at the bottom of the range (15 Hz? been a while)
> > of my analyzer. I showed a few kiddies who thought rap/techno had
> > the baddest bass that Herr Bach's thirty-two foot toys are still
> > the heavyweight champions.
>
> Very interesting. Can you provide a little more information on this?

Given the name I post under, I *should* be able to back it up.

> I googled it, but all I found out is that you're talking about a pipe
> on a pipe organ, maybe only one specific pipe organ.

32 foot pipe = C0 (16.35 Hz), or 4 octaves below middle C. Large pipe
organs can go that low. Some go lower:

http://www.theatreorgans.com/sydney/

The equation is something like:

Cycles/second = 1116 / (length in feet x 2)

Where 1116 is the speed of sound in feet per second at sea level.

"32 feet" is obviously a nominal value.

> If that's the length, what's the diameter?

Good question -- maybe someone can chip in. I assume the diameter,
or rather cross sectional area, is chosen for reasons of timbre and/or
output since the length is what determines the basic resonant
frequency.

> Why do you refer to them as toys?

All large, complex machines are toys!

> Was Bach actually involved in the manufacturing of these?

No, they were around before he was, though he had something to say
about equal temperment versus various other tuning schemes.

> I remember
> watching a PBS show about some Avant Garde composer who made her own
> instruments. One of them was some sort of wire, strecthed out over a
> good twenty foot long soundboard. Your basic stringed instrument
> setup. Sounded kind of like thunder, but with much more sustain.
> Whatever kind of wire she was using, it was much too thick (at least a
> good 1/2 inch) to belong to any type of standard instrument. Ring any
> bells?

No, but people do all kinds of wacky things that sometimes get confused
with music. There's no accounting for taste.

-DrBoom

[Arny Krueger]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
m
>> Automotive is too easy for subs. You have that small room effct boost
>> starting around 50- Hz and ramping up at 12 dB/octave.
>
> Oh, I know, we were just having a bit of fun. I forgot where we
> stopped power wise, but it was unholy.

In other words, modern.

;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message
om
>> Yeah, but I have to say it, the horn loaded ones with the guy
>> standing inside are way cooler looking.
>
> Yeah, but nothing like puking from standing in front of ours for a few
> minutes...;>)

If you can go somewhat lower, you can force spontaneous pants-filling. I
mean if you're going to embarrass people, why not go for err... the gold?

[Roger W. Norman]

From what Servodrive has been telling me, the reason they don't have enough
units to ship for demos is that people won't let them go once they get their
hands on them. And from what I've heard of the Triks, I'd almost keep
these, but they are some screwy type of beta version without handles and are
a bitch to move around. If things work out for the Kennedy Center outdoor
stage they are planning this year, then I'm most certainly going to be a
Servodrive owner. My wife and I decided to put up another 10X14 foot shed
just to store speakers so I would have some room in my studio. But those
BDeap32s are BIG and heavy, so I guess I'll have to spend the couple of
extra thou and go with the Contra Bass units. At least they are only 120
lbs.

Why is it that the more I want to work in the studio the more I end up doing
location work?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message
...
> > I had the privilege of building the first pachyderm subs at Intersonics
> for
> > Tom. I took the first prototype out on a gig one weekend-ten cubic
feet,
> > with dual 15" drive section, and four 18" passive radiators. F3 is
14hz,
> > and it could hit the same 114db level like a Contrabass, which is the
> > commercial version basically. It did the job quite successfully for the
> > Cornell researchers.
>
> I looked at your site, I could barely catch the drool before it hit the
> keyboard. Man, I would love to have a few of those subs :-) BTW, anytime
you
> want to send me some to evaluate, feel free <g> Just don't expect them
back
> :-)
>
>

[John Halliburton]

> From what Servodrive has been telling me, the reason they don't have
enough
> units to ship for demos is that people won't let them go once they get
their
> hands on them. And from what I've heard of the Triks, I'd almost keep
> these, but they are some screwy type of beta version without handles and
are
> a bitch to move around.
Actually, they are an "Install" version I believe. We make a Touring
version with handles and a heavy duty linex type coating.



If things work out for the Kennedy Center outdoor
> stage they are planning this year, then I'm most certainly going to be a
> Servodrive owner. My wife and I decided to put up another 10X14 foot shed
> just to store speakers so I would have some room in my studio. But those
> BDeap32s are BIG and heavy, so I guess I'll have to spend the couple of
> extra thou and go with the Contra Bass units. At least they are only 120
> lbs.
You might want to consider the TDSub instead. The same 12" drivers in the
BDEAP in a small enclosure the same size/shape as the TD1. A bit more
efficient than the Contrabass, and a lot more power handling. It just
doesn't go down that last octave to 16hz, but for most live work, 32hz isn't
bad. Less expensive than the Contrabass too.


> Why is it that the more I want to work in the studio the more I end up
doing
> location work?
Ah, one of the top ten eternal questions...;>)

Best regards,

John

[Analogeezer]

"John Halliburton" > wrote in message >...
> >
> > Yeah, but I have to say it, the horn loaded ones with the guy standing
> > inside are way cooler looking.
>
> Yeah, but nothing like puking from standing in front of ours for a few
> minutes...;>)
>
>
> > Nothing against your products...love your site and you've got some
> > serious engineering going on there...best of luck.
>
> As for stand-in subs, I need to dig up some pictures of the sonic boom
> simulator we designed and built for Georgia Tech Research. Each 3hz sub
> horn had opposing 6' long flares 5' high coming out of the central cabinet,
> which was 4'x4'x2'. Imagine a bow tie if you were looking down at the
> cabinetry.
>
> Best regards,
>
> John

Any idea what subs Yes was using on the live tours in 2001 - 2002 (the
"Classics tour").

Chris Squire was doing these bass pedal things at the end....he'd
flash a giant grin and then step on the pedals. He obviously knew the
thing was loud.

Overall the SPL out of the system was pretty reasonable (I'm not a big
fan of concert PA's that cause pain) but whenever he hit that pedal
thing (I guess it was driving some sort of synth module) the low end
that came out was incredible.

After the show (this bit with the bass pedals was towards the
end...during Starship Trouper) I had a real strong urge to take a
dump...<g>

Speaking of that, have you been involved in any of that crowd control
research that involves high volume subsonics...apparently they are
developing crowd control technology that stops riots by making
everybody crap their pants....

Analogeezer

[Ryan]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message >...

> If you can go somewhat lower, you can force spontaneous pants-filling. I
> mean if you're going to embarrass people, why not go for err... the gold?

hmmmm, just what is this crapulent frequency?

[Analogeezer]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message >...
> From what Servodrive has been telling me, the reason they don't have enough
> units to ship for demos is that people won't let them go once they get their
> hands on them. And from what I've heard of the Triks, I'd almost keep
> these, but they are some screwy type of beta version without handles and are
> a bitch to move around. If things work out for the Kennedy Center outdoor
> stage they are planning this year, then I'm most certainly going to be a
> Servodrive owner. My wife and I decided to put up another 10X14 foot shed
> just to store speakers so I would have some room in my studio. But those
> BDeap32s are BIG and heavy, so I guess I'll have to spend the couple of
> extra thou and go with the Contra Bass units. At least they are only 120
> lbs.
>
> Why is it that the more I want to work in the studio the more I end up doing
> location work?
>
> --
>
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio
>
I've been chasing this my entire musical career. I'll gear up for live
playing and then the band breaks up. So I'll start moving more into
recording, buy some gear for that, and I wind up in a band that is
more keen on live playing....then I get more into PA or Bass rig stuff
and then that fades and it goes back to the studio thing.

I'm currently on my fourth cycle...hence my interest in this thread
<g>

Analogeezer

[Roger W. Norman]

Servodrive Triks

How do you open a review of speakers that sound this good? What superlatives
work without sounding overused? I could say they sound fantastic, and they
do. I could also say they should be on anyone’s short list for SR
applications in a broad range of environments, and they should be. The Triks
are a small representation of just what a well-designed speaker is capable
of achieving. Not only a small representation in terms of one piece of
product in a product line that is as deep as one would need, but small in
terms of sound for size and sound for price.

The Triks are a half ground plane speaker that incorporate 4 8" drivers
surrounding their 60 X 60 degree Unity horn using 4 sealed back 5" drivers
and a 1" throat compression driver. Sounds kind of normal, right? Well, the
speaker configuration isn’t all that normal in that the 4 5" drivers are
mounted directly to the horn with about ¾" holes (two per driver) to allow
access of the drivers to the horn surface. Now that’s not normal for a horn.
But what happens when you fire them up isn’t normal either.

First, the 8s are somewhat of an enigma in that they don’t add a lot of
bottom, as we would expect, but they add a lot of definition to the bottom
so one would perceive that these speakers are producing more bass than they
actually produce. That’s the first thing one would notice. Now I purposely
tested this outdoors because my purchasing specs are for an outdoor system
that would encompass a couple of thousand people over a fairly large spread
at the Kennedy Center here in DC. My initial selection for listening was
some Little Feat and the sound was beautiful without any subs. The bass was
articulated, as was the entire system, but because of the use of the Unity
horn, this speaker sounds a lot bigger than it really is. The truth is that
there is no serious bass coming out of the Triks, but the auditory
information belies the physics.

As per normal horn physics, the standard inverse square law doesn’t apply,
and these felt like they should have been cutting down trees some 100’ away
from the speaker source they had that much projection. And amazingly, we
were pumping maybe about 200 watts of power through them in their basic
configuration. The bass was taut but present without sounding like it was
being overdriven. The mids and highs were, without exception, beautifully
articulated and intelligible within the 60 degree horizontal spread. Walking
towards them whilst playing, I had to slide over to the horn shadow to get
close since they had that much sound coming from them. These are speakers
that are rated to handle 800 continuous watts and I was putting a quarter of
that into them.

The design of the Triks isn’t something that one would normally purchase as
a single mids/highs speaker, primarily because of the 60 X 60 coverage, but
also because of the design of the speaker. That’s easily explained. They are
truly designed to be used as two in a set, then offering the same beautiful
sound in a 120 X 60 coverage which should pretty much fulfill any soundman’s
outdoor expectations. Since I’ve never done arenas, I have no idea of the
usefulness, but I can’t imagine that 120-degree horizontal coverage with two
sets of speakers right and left would require much in the way of needing
expensive fills.

Using a 3 way mono/2 way stereo active crossover, we set about working with
a couple of Karlson horn subs, but the match wasn’t particularly good
regardless of the crossover point selected for the sub. We had nothing
available that would significantly enhance the audio coming from the Triks
on the bottom end, so after a while we gave up. It takes too much time to
try to time align a Karlson horn sub with these and the Triks just didn’t
like less than comparable subs. So I have to assume that Servodrive is
quite aware of this and their subs fit their mid/high products to a tee.
However, if one were to think they could easily marry a standard sub to the
extreme presence the Triks have they would find out quickly that the Triks
simply will blow standard subs away.

I could talk about the half ground plane tests and the RTA measurements, but
they don’t fit with the realization of their intended use. Crossover points
don’t mean anything when most everything that you’re listening to is so well
integrated that you can’t tell when one thing is coming on and another is
going off. The points between the 8s dropping off and the horn taking over
is so subtle that our RTA couldn’t define a crossover point, although I
believe you’d be talking about 300 Hz for the rise of the horn, and maybe
somewhere around 2.5 or 2.7 kHz for the introduction of the compression
driver. Piano, sax, the top end of drum kits, all sounded smooth and nothing
appeared as if it was getting stuck in a crossover point as one would find
in the more normal 15" two way speakers that are comparable to the size of
the Trik. Vocals were the most intelligible I’ve heard in almost any
speakers I've used, including Meyer Mts4As, so this was very surprising to
me. After all, the Meyers run 10 times the dollars and have 2450 watts of
active power. Again, I’m comparing a speaker system to another speaker
system, not a speaker to a collection of speakers as one would find in a
line array or some other more expensive solution.

So where would the Triks fit? Well, it’s likely that the list of where they
wouldn’t fit is shorter, so I’ll attack it that way. I wouldn’t put them
into a small club. Although the coverage might fit some narrow situations,
it would not only have to be narrow, it would have to be long, too. The
firing distance on these horns would make close quarters interminable for
most club situations using minimal power. And I wouldn’t use them for a 5.1
home surround system either, but pretty much anywhere else I’m positive that
it’s possible to find a way to use them and get first class results. The
marriage of sub and Unity horn is crucial, so one cannot cheap out on subs
as part of a system. The Triks are designed to present specific
characteristics in audio to a crowd, and without the correct subs, they
would be a waste of money. WITH the appropriate subs, they have to be one of
the best bets for medium local SR to larger touring systems that wouldn’t
step into the arena stage.

Luckily, Servodrive has a product line stretching from the Runt to the TD1,
and the appropriate subs to help drive the music home in almost any
environment. But I’m only speculating about that. It’s not really possible
for me to give a recommendation on the entire product line from the testing
of one type of speaker, but I can tell you that the testing of this one
speaker system certainly makes me WANT to recommend them to anyone looking
to improve their sound projection in almost any circumstance short of an
arena, and I’m just as certain that a well designed system from Servodrive
would easily fit that bill, too.


--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

[Cossie]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
> Servodrive Triks

I can tell you that the testing of this one
> speaker system certainly makes me WANT to recommend them to anyone looking
> to improve their sound projection in almost any circumstance short of an
> arena, and I'm just as certain that a well designed system from Servodrive
> would easily fit that bill, too.
>

Thanks for the review, Roger.

Last weekend I had the opportunity to go and observe John Halliburton as he
ran SR for a small Irish band using two TrikTraps and two Contrabasses.

The instrumentation was two bodhrans, three fiddles, a viola, a cello, and a
flute. The event was a Chamber of Commerce expo held in a gymnasium. The
gym was fairly typical, except that there were storage areas on both end
walls with slanted roofs at about 10' high , and some kind of soft, foamlike
material on the ceiling. All in all, the acoustics were much better than
expected from a big square metal box of a room, but it was no concert hall.
Also, there were people milling around talking and schmoozing the whole
time - not a quiet listening environment.

John set up one contrabass on each side of the "stage", which was an 18"
high raised platform about 12' wide and 8' deep, covered with indoor/outdoor
carpeting. The TrikTraps went on top of the subs.

Part of your review discusses the mismatch of other subs to the Triks. I
can tell you that they sounded fantastic with the Contrabass subs. You have
never heard such bodhrans! When standing directly in front of the speakers,
it was interesting to me to hear how the various impact sounds and
resonances from the intrument were divided between the Triks and the
Contras. The clarity of the strike with the mallet, the rebound of the
head, and the following ramp up and decay of the pitch were all easy to pick
out, and moved smoothly from one box to the other and back. When I stepped
back into a more typical listening position, the whole sound was cohesive,
full, and very, very clean. The cello sounded about 30 feet tall, the flute
was smooth as silk, and the fiddles, well, they sounded like well-played
student fiddles (which they were).

What more could you ask for? I use a TD1 every week and I have now heard
the TrikTraps and the contrabasses. I haven't heard anything out of any of
these speakers that would make me hesitate for a second to recommend them
without reservation.

Bill Balmer

[hank alrich]

Cossie wrote:

> What more could you ask for? I use a TD1 every week and I have now heard
> the TrikTraps and the contrabasses. I haven't heard anything out of any of
> these speakers that would make me hesitate for a second to recommend them
> without reservation.

What's the going rate for a pair of each?

--
ha

[Roger W. Norman]

"Cossie" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thanks for the review, Roger.
>
> Last weekend I had the opportunity to go and observe John Halliburton as
he
> ran SR for a small Irish band using two TrikTraps and two Contrabasses.
>
> The instrumentation was two bodhrans, three fiddles, a viola, a cello, and
a
> flute. The event was a Chamber of Commerce expo held in a gymnasium. The
> gym was fairly typical, except that there were storage areas on both end
> walls with slanted roofs at about 10' high , and some kind of soft,
foamlike
> material on the ceiling. All in all, the acoustics were much better than
> expected from a big square metal box of a room, but it was no concert
hall.
> Also, there were people milling around talking and schmoozing the whole
> time - not a quiet listening environment.
>
> John set up one contrabass on each side of the "stage", which was an 18"
> high raised platform about 12' wide and 8' deep, covered with
indoor/outdoor
> carpeting. The TrikTraps went on top of the subs.
>
> Part of your review discusses the mismatch of other subs to the Triks. I
> can tell you that they sounded fantastic with the Contrabass subs. You
have
> never heard such bodhrans! When standing directly in front of the
speakers,
> it was interesting to me to hear how the various impact sounds and
> resonances from the intrument were divided between the Triks and the
> Contras. The clarity of the strike with the mallet, the rebound of the
> head, and the following ramp up and decay of the pitch were all easy to
pick
> out, and moved smoothly from one box to the other and back. When I
stepped
> back into a more typical listening position, the whole sound was cohesive,
> full, and very, very clean. The cello sounded about 30 feet tall, the
flute
> was smooth as silk, and the fiddles, well, they sounded like well-played
> student fiddles (which they were).
>
> What more could you ask for? I use a TD1 every week and I have now heard
> the TrikTraps and the contrabasses. I haven't heard anything out of any
of
> these speakers that would make me hesitate for a second to recommend them
> without reservation.

Cool. Thanks for the add-on because, even without the proper subs, the
Triks were amazing. I'm going to have to set up a meeting with Les over at
Metro Events and see about getting a chance to hear a more properly
configured setup.

But damn, I'm now going to have to purchase another 10' X 14' shed just to
house all the stupid live speakers (and so I won't have to carry them up and
down stairs). And this from a guy who's still trying to stay in the studio.
But you have to go where the work leads you, and I refuse to play a game
with audio, either in the studio or out live. It has to be quality, and so
far the Servodrive products seem to offer quite a lot of that.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

[Cossie]

"Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
...
>
> But damn, I'm now going to have to purchase another 10' X 14' shed just to
> house all the stupid live speakers (and so I won't have to carry them up
and
> down stairs).

And, umm.... What's your address again? ;-)

Bill
trying to be inconspicuous with the 4' bolt cutters

[Roger W. Norman]

Believe it or not, with all the power tools and such that I've bought in the
last two years, the current shed is protected by a motion detector and glass
breaking listening device tied into the alarm system. And it's underground,
so you can't come over and cut it! <g>

Then again, I really have to be careful not to want to go to the workshop if
I've had a couple of beers because there's that damned 12 gauge shotgun
pointing at the door.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Cossie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Roger W. Norman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > But damn, I'm now going to have to purchase another 10' X 14' shed just
to
> > house all the stupid live speakers (and so I won't have to carry them up
> and
> > down stairs).
>
> And, umm.... What's your address again? ;-)
>
> Bill
> trying to be inconspicuous with the 4' bolt cutters
>
>

[robin]

"Cossie" > wrote:

>Last weekend I had the opportunity to go and observe John Halliburton as he
>ran SR for a small Irish band using two TrikTraps and two Contrabasses.

Was this in Ireland? I would love to hear such a setup.

-- robin