Guitar tone...

[DaveDrummer]

In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds very
good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have any
tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.

Thanks

Dave

[J&L]

One major thing i learned.. is make sure you destrotion has no resemblance
of fuzz.. make it a chary distortion. .. more than any thing else a basic
basic solid distortion can take u miles.. even if its just to see what you
like or dont like about it.. then you can tweak and re-record from there...


Regards

Leon

[Garthrr]

In article >, "DaveDrummer"
> writes:

>In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds very
>good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have any
>tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
>sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dave

Mic the room as well by pointing a mic AWAY from the amp out into the room and
print that to a seperate track so you can add in as much ambience as needed
later when you mix. Also, placing the close mic farther from the center of the
speaker toward the edge will decrease the buzz factor some. As for EQ, reducing
high end, especially over 5kHz is another way to minimize the ugliness.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Roger W. Norman]

If it sounds good in the room, why put the mic up against the speaker?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message
...
> In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds
very
> good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have
any
> tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
> sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
>
>

[Garthrr]

In article >, "Roger W. Norman"
> writes:

>If it sounds good in the room, why put the mic up against the speaker?

I dont know if its a psycho acoustic thing or what but for some reason, to my
ears, just using a room mic alone doesn't sound the same as listening in the
room from the same spot where the mic is placed. I find that a close mic on the
amp is necessary as well for immediacy and punch. The room mic really does
provide the bloom and space, though. By printing the two mics to different
tracks you give yourself all kinds of options with respect to levels and
panning.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[DaveDrummer]

Thats probably due to the stereo image. You have two ears, the mic only has
one...

Then theres stereo room micing, which is very cool if you can do it
right..ill guess ill keep experimenting

Dave

"Garthrr" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Roger W. Norman"
> > writes:
>
> >If it sounds good in the room, why put the mic up against the speaker?
>
> I dont know if its a psycho acoustic thing or what but for some reason, to
my
> ears, just using a room mic alone doesn't sound the same as listening in
the
> room from the same spot where the mic is placed. I find that a close mic
on the
> amp is necessary as well for immediacy and punch. The room mic really does
> provide the bloom and space, though. By printing the two mics to different
> tracks you give yourself all kinds of options with respect to levels and
> panning.
>
> Garth~
>
>
> "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> Ed Cherney

[Tom Paul]

(Garthrr) wrote in message >...
> In article >, "Roger W. Norman"
> > writes:
>
> >If it sounds good in the room, why put the mic up against the speaker?
>
> I dont know if its a psycho acoustic thing or what but for some reason, to my
> ears, just using a room mic alone doesn't sound the same as listening in the
> room from the same spot where the mic is placed. I find that a close mic on the
> amp is necessary as well for immediacy and punch. The room mic really does
> provide the bloom and space, though. By printing the two mics to different
> tracks you give yourself all kinds of options with respect to levels and
> panning.
>
> Garth~
>
I tend to agree with you, but I have found some nice tones to
cleaner guitars using an LDC 3-5 feet away. This is mostly good on the
shared pick-up settings on a strat where its a sort of complex tone.

Tom Paul

[Lou Gimenez]

are you listening to the sound direct from the speaker or is the speaker on
the floor away from your head? Try changing the tone after listening to the
way the mic hears it. you can try room mics and anything else just make sure
its all in phase.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: (Garthrr)
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: 09 Mar 2004 22:16:02 GMT
> Subject: Re: Guitar tone...
>
> In article >, "DaveDrummer"
> > writes:
>
>> In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds very
>> good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have any
>> tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
>> sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dave
>
> Mic the room as well by pointing a mic AWAY from the amp out into the room and
> print that to a seperate track so you can add in as much ambience as needed
> later when you mix. Also, placing the close mic farther from the center of the
> speaker toward the edge will decrease the buzz factor some. As for EQ,
> reducing
> high end, especially over 5kHz is another way to minimize the ugliness.
>
> Garth~
>
>
> "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> Ed Cherney

[Roger W. Norman]

As long as you pay attention to phase problems induced by distance, there's
no reason not to experiment with multiple mics in a room. Start with one on
the grill, one about 3' back, another maybe 9' back, etc. Heck, if you have
a twin 12, go with two different mics, one on each speaker. Just remember
that it's what the combination of amp/guitar sounds like, so your mics
should be somewhere reasonably near where your ears are when you find the
sound you like. If what you're hearing is 3' back and 2' up, then that's
where the mic should go. If you're playing guitar with your head up against
the speaker grill then I have no doubts about why you can't get the sound
you want! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message
...
> Thats probably due to the stereo image. You have two ears, the mic only
has
> one...
>
> Then theres stereo room micing, which is very cool if you can do it
> right..ill guess ill keep experimenting
>
> Dave
>
> "Garthrr" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Roger W. Norman"
> > > writes:
> >
> > >If it sounds good in the room, why put the mic up against the speaker?
> >
> > I dont know if its a psycho acoustic thing or what but for some reason,
to
> my
> > ears, just using a room mic alone doesn't sound the same as listening in
> the
> > room from the same spot where the mic is placed. I find that a close mic
> on the
> > amp is necessary as well for immediacy and punch. The room mic really
does
> > provide the bloom and space, though. By printing the two mics to
different
> > tracks you give yourself all kinds of options with respect to levels and
> > panning.
> >
> > Garth~
> >
> >
> > "I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
> > Ed Cherney
>
>

[Mike]

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message >...
> In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds very
> good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have any
> tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
> sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

A good sounding guitar doesn't necessarily fit into the mix. For me,
the denser the mix the more I have to take out lows on up to low mids.
The more space the more I leave it in.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

[Roger W. Norman]

Which is why, sometimes, a guitar amp mic'd with an SM57 works in a mix.
Not because it's a good mic, nor because the guitar tone is the best, but
because it works within the mix. I think if you ask a lot of engineers
who've done years of recordings you'll find it true with a lot of them. Why
go through the hassle of putting a U87 on a guitar cabinet if you're going
to have to **** with the tone and kill what the U87 recorded? It's all
about mixing the right players with the right instruments in the right rooms
with the right mics in the right place. Then mixing is like butta.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mike" > wrote in message
om...
> "DaveDrummer" > wrote in message
>...
> > In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds
very
> > good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have
any
> > tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar
always
> > sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dave
>
> A good sounding guitar doesn't necessarily fit into the mix. For me,
> the denser the mix the more I have to take out lows on up to low mids.
> The more space the more I leave it in.
>
> Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com

[Josh Brown]

you could follow all those suggestions, or just get a POD and have
killer tone all the time and not have to worry about it.

Sorry I just couldn't resist, and yes, I know that the ultimate guitar
tone can only be achieved by recording a vintage amp through nice
mics, neve preamps and onto a 2 inch 8 track. But when comparing the
pod to say a carvin amp mic'd with a 57, I personally choose the pod.

I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
back and eat my words,

J

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message >...
> In the studio I run into a very very common problem: the guitar sounds very
> good in the room, but terrible up against the speaker. Does anyone have any
> tips for EQ, tone, compression, where to pick, anything? The guitar always
> sound a little buzzy/fuzzy. I dont use too mcuh gain.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

[WillStG]

>I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
>SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
>back and eat my words,

It would be a better move in that case to come back and ask for advice.


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[WillStG]

(WillStG)


>
>>I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
>>SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
>>back and eat my words,
>
> It would be a better move in that case to come back and ask for advice.

If you can;t beat the Pod, I mean...
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[DaveDrummer]

I like the idea of simulated recording amps. Some DIs are really awesome on
bass guitar (sansamp Di, etc) but for guitar, especially lead, I stay away.
Not because it sounds bad but because well, my POD will sound the same as my
friends POD, which sounds the same as his uncles POD, and his amp techs
POD....

Dave

"WillStG" > wrote in message
...
> (WillStG)
>
>
> >
> >>I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
> >>SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
> >>back and eat my words,
> >
> > It would be a better move in that case to come back and ask for
advice.
>
> If you can;t beat the Pod, I mean...
> Will Miho
> NY Music & TV Audio Guy
> Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
>
>
>

[Garthrr]

> writes:

>I like the idea of simulated recording amps. Some DIs are really awesome on
>bass guitar (sansamp Di, etc) but for guitar, especially lead, I stay away.
>Not because it sounds bad but because well, my POD will sound the same as my
>friends POD, which sounds the same as his uncles POD, and his amp techs
>POD....
>
>Dave

I have the POD XT. I bought it for those studio situations in which an amp is
impractical, unavailable or unnecessary as in scratch parts etc. What I
discovered, to my surprise, is that the thing sounds good. Today I just
finished mixing a track for a client on which I played slide gtr through the
POD and the tone stood up quite well. I say this with the additional comment
that I have been a serious tone seeker for some 35 years and have become known
to some extent for my tone. I find the POD XT to be a very useful thing to have
around.
As with anything it has weaknesses which, in this case, I would say are the
slightly distorted sounds as opposed to all clean or all dirty but even then
its better than many amps IMO. I'm a Fender guy and I like that touch
sensitive, in between clean and dirty sound for a lot of my playing. Nothing
does that quite like a Fender turned up just right but the POD does a number of
other things quite well.

Its a bit quirky as far as editing of programs but maybe thats just my lack of
knowledge about it. I also have a Roland VG88 and while it sounds good I really
end up using the POD more.

Garth Webber


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[ryanm]

"Josh Brown" > wrote in message
om...
> you could follow all those suggestions, or just get a POD and have
> killer tone all the time and not have to worry about it.
>
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.... heh... wait... you weren't joking?

> I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
> SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
> back and eat my words,
>
I have a better idea. If you *can't* get better tone with that setup
than a POD, come back and ask how to setup and mic a real amp. A chimp could
get better tone with a Soldano.

ryanm

[Greg]

(Garthrr) wrote in message >...
> .... I'm a Fender guy and I like that touch
> sensitive, in between clean and dirty sound for a lot of my playing. Nothing
> does that quite like a Fender turned up just right ...

I recently got me a Groove Tubes amp -- the single ended class A model
with a 12" speaker -- and it is the most touch-sensitive amp I've ever
played through.

[Tommy B]

I just got a Carlsbro Fatboy,-- the single ended class A model with a 12"
speaker, 4 EL84 & 3 12ax7's, which is like a 1 12 inch Vox AC30. I got it
for $625, which is not bad for a $1700 list amp. The problem: it hums, right
between Bb & B, so you really can't use it for recording.
The solution: The store owner thought it was one of the 12ax7's, so he sent
me one Fedex, it left on the 8th and gor here on the 11th, and the guy is
about 4 hrs. away by car. It didn't fix it, I didn't think it would as the
hum is a constant volume not affected by knobs. The store owner called the
distributor and tommorow I'm taking it down to EARS on 28st for a free
repair. Would I do biz with this guy again, yes. He is doing the right
thing.
Hopefully it can be fixed or back it goes, but I got my fingers crossed,
which is a very limitng way to play guitar.
Tom





"Greg" > wrote in message
om...
> (Garthrr) wrote in message
>...
> > .... I'm a Fender guy and I like that touch
> > sensitive, in between clean and dirty sound for a lot of my playing.
Nothing
> > does that quite like a Fender turned up just right ...
>
> I recently got me a Groove Tubes amp -- the single ended class A model
> with a 12" speaker -- and it is the most touch-sensitive amp I've ever
> played through.

[Garthrr]

In article >,
(Greg) writes:

>I recently got me a Groove Tubes amp -- the single ended class A model
>with a 12" speaker -- and it is the most touch-sensitive amp I've ever
>played through.

Yeah, I had one of those amps for a bit and it really was responsive in that
way. I was trying it out with what I now think was an inferior speaker cab and
I didnt end up buying the amp. I wish I had heard it with better speakers. I do
remember that it really had a very dynamic response that I liked.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

[Roger W. Norman]

Why I believe I wouldn't even need to have the Soldano on to get better
tone, but just in case I think I'll turn it up to 11. And if that fails,
maybe I'll actually turn it on.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"ryanm" > wrote in message
...
> "Josh Brown" > wrote in message
> om...
> > you could follow all those suggestions, or just get a POD and have
> > killer tone all the time and not have to worry about it.
> >
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.... heh... wait... you weren't joking?
>
> > I'm going to try micing my Soldano with my TLM 103, EV-RE20 and an
> > SM57 this week to see if I can beat the POD tone. If I do I will come
> > back and eat my words,
> >
> I have a better idea. If you *can't* get better tone with that setup
> than a POD, come back and ask how to setup and mic a real amp. A chimp
could
> get better tone with a Soldano.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[unitron]

"Tommy B" > wrote in message . net>...

---snip---

>It didn't fix it, I didn't think it would as the
> hum is a constant volume not affected by knobs.

---snip---

Sounds like classic bad filter capacitor in power supply.

[Tommy B]

My friend thought that too. Resistors fell off in transit.
It's fixed. I take my hat off to Dennis at
http://www.adirondackguitar.com/amps/fatboy/fatboy.htm

He covered the cost of the repair, after the tube he sent me failed to fix
the problem.
Tom



"unitron" > wrote in message
om...
> "Tommy B" > wrote in message
. net>...
>
> ---snip---
>
> >It didn't fix it, I didn't think it would as the
> > hum is a constant volume not affected by knobs.
>
> ---snip---
>
> Sounds like classic bad filter capacitor in power supply.