Acoustic Guitar: Stereo mic'ing vs double take?

[Brian]

I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that I
think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking to
try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
sound in stereo, what is preferred:

1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
different placement for the the two takes.

I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
matched pair, or just get one km184.

-brian

[Cossie]

"Brian" > wrote in message
s.com...
> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that
I
> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking
to
> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> different placement for the the two takes.
>

Depends on whether you want a stereo recording of one performance or two
recordings of two performances placed L/R in the stereo field. Even the
best guitarist couldn't possibly strike every string in exactly the same way
(same velocity, same intensity, same timing etc. etc. on EVERY string on
EVERY stroke), so you'd end up with a recording of two separate performances
if you did two takes. That can be okay if it's what you want, but it's not
technically stereo.

Bill Balmer

[John Washburn]

"Brian" wrote:
> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that
I
> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking
to
> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> different placement for the the two takes.

3. M-S with the mics you already have? Unless you have a preternaturally
gifted guitar player, two takes isn't going to sound anything like a single
pass stereo recording.


>
> I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
> matched pair, or just get one km184.

A pair of MK012 will make a better stereo recording than a single km184. But
since you already have mics that can work in stereo, why don't you try that
first?

-jw

[sjjohnston]

"Brian" > wrote in message
s.com...
> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that
I
> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking
to
> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> different placement for the the two takes.

Those are really two entirely different things, which produce two quite
different effects. Which you prefer depends on, well ... which you prefer.
You may want to do either, at different times. Try experimenting with both
to see what they sound like. You can experiment with stereo micing (or
miking, or even, God forbid mic'ing) with whatever two mics you have that
are closest to one another before laying out a bunch of money to buy a new
one. You can even do both: record two takes, both in stereo! Or not.

If I had to typify (and this is dangerous): double tracking (recording two
takes) can be useful for a strumming rhythm part, but might make a mush of
something that's supposed to be an "up front" performance; stereo recording
might be well-advised for a solo guitar recording, but might not make a ton
of difference if it's just something in the "bed."

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, "Brian"
> wrote:
>I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that I
>think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking to
>try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
>sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
>1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
>2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
>different placement for the the two takes.
>
>I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
>matched pair, or just get one km184.
>
>-brian


These are two very different approaches. A lot has to do with the rest of
the arrangement.

While I contend that one excellent mic with a good stereo reverb works most
of the time, others will argue that two matched whatevers are required.

Double tracking (recording two separate passes) sounds very different. As
long as the mix isn't stuffed to the gills already, that's a good way to go.

If you're eyeing a km184, I'd suggest also trying to track down a low
mileage KM 84. It has a flatter top than the KM 184. Hal Laurent was kind
enough to bring two of different vintage KM 84 here last year, but we found
they sounded quite different. We didn't know the past of each, so knowing
why they sounded different was anyone's guess.

Oh, then there's my favorite, the Schopes cmc641. A clip of which is in the
Audio Archive of my website.

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Wayne Stephens]

I can tell you that I've spent alot of time recording acoustics lately.
One of my favorite combos is as follows.
Ch-1 DI the mic thru a good DI (I use Radial) to a tube pre w/compressor.
Ch-2 One MC012 at the neck side of sound hole aimed right at the
neck/body joint as close as you can get to the gtr thru a neutral or
clean pre.
Ch-3 A Oktava 319 large condenser (or something similar) thru clean pre
positioned up near the right elbow of player, focused down toward the
gtr bridge.
Record on three tracks and blend as needed. Sounds great with the DI ch
mixed low in the center and the other two panned hard L-R.
Proably will need to "Highpass" all tracks to reduce low end.
I'm not really a pro full time recording engineer but this is working
well for me.
Good luck
Cya


Brian wrote:
> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that I
> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking to
> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> different placement for the the two takes.
>
> I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
> matched pair, or just get one km184.
>
> -brian
>
>

[Wayne Stephens]

Sorry for typing to fast.................
"Ch-1 DI the mic" should say, "DI the gtr if possible"
If you want to hear this go to:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/rinisprojectmusic.htm
Listen to the song "I'll be waiting".
Not bad for a novice doing it all on a laptop.
Cya

Wayne Stephens wrote:
> I can tell you that I've spent alot of time recording acoustics lately.
> One of my favorite combos is as follows.
> Ch-1 DI the mic thru a good DI (I use Radial) to a tube pre w/compressor.
> Ch-2 One MC012 at the neck side of sound hole aimed right at the
> neck/body joint as close as you can get to the gtr thru a neutral or
> clean pre.
> Ch-3 A Oktava 319 large condenser (or something similar) thru clean pre
> positioned up near the right elbow of player, focused down toward the
> gtr bridge.
> Record on three tracks and blend as needed. Sounds great with the DI ch
> mixed low in the center and the other two panned hard L-R.
> Proably will need to "Highpass" all tracks to reduce low end.
> I'm not really a pro full time recording engineer but this is working
> well for me.
> Good luck
> Cya
>
>
> Brian wrote:
>
>> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1
>> that I
>> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am
>> looking to
>> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
>> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>>
>> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
>> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
>> different placement for the the two takes.
>>
>> I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
>> matched pair, or just get one km184.
>>
>> -brian
>>
>>
>

[Brian Huether]

Hi,

You mean use the C1 and Royer, right? The thing is, I need so much gain on
the Royer. But I will try it.

-brian
"John Washburn" > wrote in message
...
> "Brian" wrote:
> > I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1
that
> I
> > think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am
looking
> to
> > try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich
acoustic
> > sound in stereo, what is preferred:
> >
> > 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> > 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> > different placement for the the two takes.
>
> 3. M-S with the mics you already have? Unless you have a preternaturally
> gifted guitar player, two takes isn't going to sound anything like a
single
> pass stereo recording.
>
>
> >
> > I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
> > matched pair, or just get one km184.
>
> A pair of MK012 will make a better stereo recording than a single km184.
But
> since you already have mics that can work in stereo, why don't you try
that
> first?
>
> -jw
>
>

[Paul Stamler]

Personally I'd go for the matched pair of MC012s. You can always use one of
them for the one-take-in-each-channel trick, so you can try both approaches.
And I like a good MC012 better than the KM184; like Ty said, the latter is
pretty bright on top.

Peace,
Paul

[A. & G. Reiswig]

Also, it may well be that a matched pair is less important in the case of
recording guitar than it is for chamber music, for example. If they're in
the same ballpark as one another, things should be okay since they are
actually hearing significantly different signals.

George Reiswig
Song of the River Music

"Paul Stamler" > wrote in message
...
> Personally I'd go for the matched pair of MC012s. You can always use one
of
> them for the one-take-in-each-channel trick, so you can try both
approaches.
> And I like a good MC012 better than the KM184; like Ty said, the latter is
> pretty bright on top.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>

[Stephen Boyke]

in article , Brian at
wrote on 3/9/04 6:15 AM:

> I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1 that I
> think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am looking to
> try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich acoustic
> sound in stereo, what is preferred:
>
> 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> different placement for the the two takes.
>
> I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
> matched pair, or just get one km184.
>
> -brian

Have you tried the C1 and the Royer together? They are rather different
mics, with the C1 having a lot of top end and the Royer full of midrange
detail (among other things). What pre are you using? Dunno, but perhaps
your funds could be used somewhere else in the signal chain.
--
Stephen T. Boyke

[Greg]

"Brian Huether" > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
>
> You mean use the C1 and Royer, right? The thing is, I need so much gain on
> the Royer. But I will try it.

I think you might like it. I've been using a pair of old GT 6TMs for
mid-side recording for while now, with very satisfying results. I
like that I can adjust the ambience in the matrix at mixdown, and that
the signal is mono-compatible. I like that the ambience and stereo
effect degrading gracefully as the playback system becomes less
sterophonic, which tends to increase intelligibility for weak radio
signals.

>
> -brian
> "John Washburn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Brian" wrote:
> > > I am recording acoustic guitar. I currently have a Studio Projects C1
> that
> I
> > > think sounds quite nice. Much better than my royer r121. I now am
> looking
> to
> > > try a small condenser. The question is, to get a very full, rich
> acoustic
> > > sound in stereo, what is preferred:
> > >
> > > 1. stereo mic'ing with matched pair
> > > 2. using single mic and recording two takes, panning left and right,
> > > different placement for the the two takes.
> >
> > 3. M-S with the mics you already have? Unless you have a preternaturally
> > gifted guitar player, two takes isn't going to sound anything like a
> single
> > pass stereo recording.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I ask because I want to know if I should spend around $500 for an mk012
> > > matched pair, or just get one km184.
> >
> > A pair of MK012 will make a better stereo recording than a single km184.
> But
> > since you already have mics that can work in stereo, why don't you try
> that
> > first?
> >
> > -jw
> >
> >