Battery Question

[Mike Dobony]

I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours and
still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld wireless
mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and it
lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last longer,
655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the E2 9v? Did
we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal experience with the
E2 versus a regular alkaline?

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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[Pooh Bear]

Mike Dobony wrote:

> I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
> situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours and
> still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld wireless
> mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and it
> lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last longer,
> 655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the E2 9v? Did
> we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal experience with the
> E2 versus a regular alkaline?

Oh Mike - surely not here as well ?

Check the AAPLS thread on this, anyone, before replying.


Graham

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Dobony > wrote:
>I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
>situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours and
>still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld wireless
>mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and it
>lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last longer,
>655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the E2 9v? Did
>we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal experience with the
>E2 versus a regular alkaline?

You want to see the discharge curve on the data sheet. The mAH rating
doesn't tell you everything. Some batteries will have a higher total
capacity if they are discharged quickly, on the other hand, other
batteries will have a higher total capacity on slower discharge.

You also want to check the date codes on the boxes and see if you got
old batteries that have been self-discharging on the shelf for years.

In terms of total running time, the Ultralife lithium batteries are
probably your best bet on a wireless pack. They have an extremely long
shelf life and very high energy density. But, you'll pay more than twice
as much per battery to get twice the running time.

Personally, I am in favor of just swapping 9V batteries out after every
gig. Better safe than sorry.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Dobony]

"Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Dobony wrote:
>
> > I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
> > situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours
and
> > still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld
wireless
> > mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and
it
> > lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last longer,
> > 655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the E2 9v?
Did
> > we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal experience with
the
> > E2 versus a regular alkaline?
>
> Oh Mike - surely not here as well ?
>
> Check the AAPLS thread on this, anyone, before replying.
>

Yea, check there. They refused to give an anser to this question, but
instead tried to force other options down my throat, options that were good,
but unavailable to me. I was hoping for straight answers here. I gues this
NG is too polluted as well.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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>
> Graham
>


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[Eric Toline]

Battery Question

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Fri, Feb 20, 2004, 12:39am (EST-1) From:
(Mike=A0Dobony)
I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours
and still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld
wireless mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2
9v and it lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last
longer, 655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the
E2 9v? Did we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal
experience with the E2 versus a regular alkaline?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is the E2 a rechargeable battery? If so rechargeable 9v batterys don't
usually recharge back up to the 9v+ rating.

Eric

"Save The Sync, Ban MOS"

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours and
> still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld wireless
> mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and it
> lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours.

Apparently there's some history here (that I didn't look up) but
there's always the possibility that you got a bad lot of batteries.
Usually when someone gets a "good deal" there's something wrong, like
maybe it's old or improperly stored stock.

I have a digital caliper that uses the SR44 silver oxide button cell
and it went through the three that came with it rather quickly. Seemed
I was replacing one every couple of months, and eventually got to
removing the battery when I wasn't using the tool. I ordered 10 from
sr44.com (yes, really, there is one - they sell that battery
exclusively) and they didn't last very long either. I bought one at
Radio Shack over a year ago and it's still good. The "good deal" at
sr44.com wasn't such a good deal at all even though they were genuine
Energizer brand.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Richard Crowley]

> "Pooh Bear" wrote ...
> > Check the AAPLS thread on this, anyone, before replying.


"Mike Dobony" wrote ...
> Yea, check there. They refused to give an anser to this question,

Consider the possibility that there is no proper answer to
your improper generic question. Performance depends on
too many things that are unique to your particular situation.

Performance cannot be predicted from extrapolating and
interpolating published data from the battery manufacturer
and the mic vendor. Both sets of data are "average" and
"generic" and don't necessarily fit any particular combination
of real-world circumstances.

You may be seeking something that doesn't exist, and you
got sucked into an argument with one of the certified BAD
BOYS of the internet.

[Mike Dobony]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> > "Pooh Bear" wrote ...
> > > Check the AAPLS thread on this, anyone, before replying.
>
>
> "Mike Dobony" wrote ...
> > Yea, check there. They refused to give an anser to this question,
>
> Consider the possibility that there is no proper answer to
> your improper generic question. Performance depends on
> too many things that are unique to your particular situation.
>
> Performance cannot be predicted from extrapolating and
> interpolating published data from the battery manufacturer
> and the mic vendor. Both sets of data are "average" and
> "generic" and don't necessarily fit any particular combination
> of real-world circumstances.
>

???????? Are you trying to say that somebody else using wireless microphones
wht both alkalines and the E2 can not give a comparison of them that would
apply to my situation? Are you trying to say that even though one mic may
produce one set of results another will produce drastically different and
opposite results?

> You may be seeking something that doesn't exist, and you
> got sucked into an argument with one of the certified BAD
> BOYS of the internet.
>
>


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[Mike Dobony]

"Eric Toline" > wrote in message
...

Battery Question

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Fri, Feb 20, 2004, 12:39am (EST-1) From:
(Mike Dobony)
I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours
and still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld
wireless mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2
9v and it lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs the E2 should last
longer, 655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have any experience with the
E2 9v? Did we just get a bad set of batteries or is this a normal
experience with the E2 versus a regular alkaline?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is the E2 a rechargeable battery? If so rechargeable 9v batterys don't
usually recharge back up to the 9v+ rating.

It is a titanium battery, supposedly with greater capacity than an alkaline.
It is NOT a rechargable. The E2 has a rated capacity of 655 mAH while the
standard Energizer alkaline has a rated capacity of 625 mAH. What I am
wanting to know essentially is if the specs are proven in real life.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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Eric

"Save The Sync, Ban MOS"



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[Mike Dobony]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1077282692k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish hours and
> > still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100 handheld
wireless
> > mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the Energizer E2 9v and
it
> > lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours.
>
> Apparently there's some history here (that I didn't look up) but
> there's always the possibility that you got a bad lot of batteries.
> Usually when someone gets a "good deal" there's something wrong, like
> maybe it's old or improperly stored stock.
>

Yup, that is what I am interest in finding out. My guess is that they were
stored improperly, but I want to check other people's experience to compare.
If we did jsut get a bad set of batteries because of improper handling I am
game to try them again. OTOH, if they have a history of not giving the
expected life, then I don't even want to waste tiem and money with them
again.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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> I have a digital caliper that uses the SR44 silver oxide button cell
> and it went through the three that came with it rather quickly. Seemed
> I was replacing one every couple of months, and eventually got to
> removing the battery when I wasn't using the tool. I ordered 10 from
> sr44.com (yes, really, there is one - they sell that battery
> exclusively) and they didn't last very long either. I bought one at
> Radio Shack over a year ago and it's still good. The "good deal" at
> sr44.com wasn't such a good deal at all even though they were genuine
> Energizer brand.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


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[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Dobony" wrote ...
> ???????? Are you trying to say that somebody else using
> wireless microphones with both alkalines and the E2 can
> not give a comparison of them that would apply to my
> situation? Are you trying to say that even though one mic
> may produce one set of results another will produce drastically
> different and opposite results?

Yes and Yes. Unless they are buying batteries from the same
place as you are, and at the same time. And they must also
have the same use patterns (on vs off periods) as yours.

I think the world is more complex than you are envisioning.
Nothing in the real world is as uniform as the published
specs claim. The engineers average lots of data together
and then the marketing gerbs make it look pretty, removing
most of any real information that may have remained.
YMMV (You DO know what that means, don't you?)

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Dobony > wrote:
>
>???????? Are you trying to say that somebody else using wireless microphones
>wht both alkalines and the E2 can not give a comparison of them that would
>apply to my situation? Are you trying to say that even though one mic may
>produce one set of results another will produce drastically different and
>opposite results?

YES, because it has to do with the rate of discharge.

One type of battery may have 100 mAH at a 50 mA rate of discharge, and
75 mAH at a 100 mA rate. Another type may have 100 mA at both rates.

The plots on the manufacturers' data sheets will tell you.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

> The E2 has a rated capacity of 655 mAh while the standard
> Energizer alkaline has a rated capacity of 625 mAh. What I am
> wanting to know essentially is if the specs are proven in real life.

655 is barely 5% more than 625. Even if it meets spec, it's not a good value if
it costs 10% more.

Relative battery life cannot be determined simply by comparing mAh ratings,
which are determined at a specific drain that might be higher or lower than that
of the device you're putting the battery in. "High-performance" batteries
generally show a bigger performance improvement at high drains than at average
or low.

The only way to know for sure is to buy a couple E2s and keep track of how much
usage you get.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> My guess is that they were
> stored improperly, but I want to check other people's experience to compare.
> If we did jsut get a bad set of batteries because of improper handling I am
> game to try them again. OTOH, if they have a history of not giving the
> expected life, then I don't even want to waste tiem and money with them
> again.

You might try another batch from a different source. You might also
hack into your microphone transmmitter so that you can measure the
actual current drain and calculate how many amp-hours you're really
getting.

It may also be that the E2 was designed for a different nominal
current drain than the standard alkaline battery. Back when I was in
college, I had a summer job doing some research on NiCd batteries and
found that for a given nominal amp-hour rating, I could get
significantly more or less charge out of a fully charged battery
depending on the rate of discharge. A 10 A-H battery might go for 10
hours when under a load drawing 1 A, but deliver 2.5 A for only 3
hours.

Did you dig for application data on the manufacturer's web site?
Perhaps the E2 is designed to last a long time in something like a
smoke detector that draws very little current, or something like a
boom box that draws more current than your wireless mic transmitter.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Dobony]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Mike Dobony" wrote ...
> > ???????? Are you trying to say that somebody else using
> > wireless microphones with both alkalines and the E2 can
> > not give a comparison of them that would apply to my
> > situation? Are you trying to say that even though one mic
> > may produce one set of results another will produce drastically
> > different and opposite results?
>
> Yes and Yes. Unless they are buying batteries from the same
> place as you are, and at the same time. And they must also
> have the same use patterns (on vs off periods) as yours.
>


So in some similar situations the E2 will last longer than the alkaline and
in other similar situations the alkaline will last longer than the E2?

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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> I think the world is more complex than you are envisioning.
> Nothing in the real world is as uniform as the published
> specs claim. The engineers average lots of data together
> and then the marketing gerbs make it look pretty, removing
> most of any real information that may have remained.
> YMMV (You DO know what that means, don't you?)
>
>


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[Mike Dobony]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> > The E2 has a rated capacity of 655 mAh while the standard
> > Energizer alkaline has a rated capacity of 625 mAh. What I am
> > wanting to know essentially is if the specs are proven in real life.
>
> 655 is barely 5% more than 625. Even if it meets spec, it's not a good
value if
> it costs 10% more.
>
> Relative battery life cannot be determined simply by comparing mAh
ratings,
> which are determined at a specific drain that might be higher or lower
than that
> of the device you're putting the battery in. "High-performance" batteries
> generally show a bigger performance improvement at high drains than at
average
> or low.
>

That is why I am asking about real world experience with these batteries.
Different constructions and materials mean different drain rates, hence my
question concerning real life usage.

> The only way to know for sure is to buy a couple E2s and keep track of how
much
> usage you get.
>

Only if my experience was a fluke, per other's experiences. Again, that is
why I am asking about real world experience, to determine if my experience
was a fluke.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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[hank alrich]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> You may be seeking something that doesn't exist, and you
> got sucked into an argument with one of the certified BAD
> BOYS of the internet.

Meanwhile, should he be seeking a litium 9v battery? IME they kinda
seriously outlast the lower octane units.

--
ha

[Charles Tomaras]

"Mike Dobony" > wrote in message
...
> Yup, that is what I am interest in finding out. My guess is that they
were
> stored improperly, but I want to check other people's experience to
compare.
> If we did jsut get a bad set of batteries because of improper handling I
am
> game to try them again. OTOH, if they have a history of not giving the
> expected life, then I don't even want to waste tiem and money with them
> again.

Mike,

I use hundreds of 9 volt batteries every year. I've tried many different
types and I've come to the conclusion that all of the latest battery
technology isn't worth the price being charged. Here is a link to Seattle's
Westlake Electronics which sell's Everyready Industrials for .95 cents each.
You won't find a better battery deal anywhere. These batteries last just as
long as the ProCells I was using prior to them. I've never had a dud and I
know Westlake's stock is always fresh. They ship anywhere so maybe you and
some other mixers in your area can go in on a large purchase and share the
shipping charges. Even with shipping I bet your price per unit will be
around $1 which is pretty hard to beat. Also, these industrials ship with
the little plastic terminal caps which I prefer so I can tell a new battery
from a used battery without jerking my tounge!

http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&category=BAT&SUBCAT=EVE-&item_no=EVE-EN22

I can't give you any direct comparisons to the RF mics you use because I use
the much higher power output and higher power consumption Lectrosonics RF
mics. I get at least 4.5 hours from these batteries on a Lectrosonics 200
series transmitter outputing at 100 millivolts which is more than enough
time for me. I'd rather put a low priced battery in every 4 hours or every
job than risk failure by trying to stretch it or losing track of how much
time is on the battery over multiple days. New day, new battery...only .95
cents!

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

[Charles Tomaras]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
> > You may be seeking something that doesn't exist, and you
> > got sucked into an argument with one of the certified BAD
> > BOYS of the internet.
>
> Meanwhile, should he be seeking a litium 9v battery? IME they kinda
> seriously outlast the lower octane units.

Lithium may last a long time but they are difficult to gauge in real life
situations where you only use the device for a couple of hours every few
days. I use a lithium if I know that I need that unit to run for an entire
day without intervention. If I am in a as live situation where I can't
afford to have the device go down I use a brand new alkaline so I know I'm
gonna get my 4 hours instead of having to guess how much is left in the
lithium I used for a few hours last week and a few more hours the other day.
I've yet to find an audio device with meaningful power metering that would
allow me to use a lithium over multiple days with any sort of assurance.

That being said, Lithium batteries are wonderful and I use rechargeable
lithium NP type batteries to run many of my audio devices. Just not RF mics
attached to the belts of people I can't access.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

[Charles Tomaras]

"Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Dobony" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yup, that is what I am interest in finding out. My guess is that they
> were
> > stored improperly, but I want to check other people's experience to
> compare.
> > If we did jsut get a bad set of batteries because of improper handling I
> am
> > game to try them again. OTOH, if they have a history of not giving the
> > expected life, then I don't even want to waste tiem and money with them
> > again.
>
> Mike,
>
> I use hundreds of 9 volt batteries every year. I've tried many different
> types and I've come to the conclusion that all of the latest battery
> technology isn't worth the price being charged. Here is a link to
Seattle's
> Westlake Electronics which sell's Everyready Industrials for .95 cents
each.
> You won't find a better battery deal anywhere. These batteries last just
as
> long as the ProCells I was using prior to them. I've never had a dud and I
> know Westlake's stock is always fresh. They ship anywhere so maybe you and
> some other mixers in your area can go in on a large purchase and share the
> shipping charges. Even with shipping I bet your price per unit will be
> around $1 which is pretty hard to beat. Also, these industrials ship with
> the little plastic terminal caps which I prefer so I can tell a new
battery
> from a used battery without jerking my tounge!
>
>
http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&category=BAT&SUBCAT=EVE-&item_no=EVE-EN22
>
> I can't give you any direct comparisons to the RF mics you use because I
use
> the much higher power output and higher power consumption Lectrosonics RF
> mics. I get at least 4.5 hours from these batteries on a Lectrosonics 200
> series transmitter outputing at 100 millivolts which is more than enough
> time for me. I'd rather put a low priced battery in every 4 hours or every
> job than risk failure by trying to stretch it or losing track of how much
> time is on the battery over multiple days. New day, new battery...only .95
> cents!
>
> Charles Tomaras
> Seattle, WA


Correction....should read "transmitter outputting at 100 milliwatts" and not
millivolts!

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message


>> Mike Dobony > wrote:
>> I have a question about the Energizer E2 9v battery in a wireless mic
>> situation. The regular Energizer 9v lasts for about 10 to 11ish
>> hours and still has some life in it when used in a Sennheiser E100
>> handheld wireless mic. We got a good deal, or so we thought, on the
>> Energizer E2 9v and it lasted only about 4.5 to 5 hours. Per specs
>> the E2 should last longer, 655mah versus 625mah. Does anybody have
>> any experience with the E2 9v? Did we just get a bad set of
>> batteries or is this a normal experience with the E2 versus a
>> regular alkaline?
>
> You want to see the discharge curve on the data sheet. The mAH rating
> doesn't tell you everything. Some batteries will have a higher total
> capacity if they are discharged quickly, on the other hand, other
> batteries will have a higher total capacity on slower discharge.

I was waiting for someone to say this. IME the new technology is definitely
not snake oil, if you find an application that is *right*. It turns out that
my Nomad 2 is *right* for the new tech Energizers. They last more than twice
as long as regular Energizers in it. In portable applications paying twice
as much for twice the life or more is perfectly acceptable, IMO.

[Mike Dobony]

"Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Dobony" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yup, that is what I am interest in finding out. My guess is that they
> were
> > stored improperly, but I want to check other people's experience to
> compare.
> > If we did jsut get a bad set of batteries because of improper handling I
> am
> > game to try them again. OTOH, if they have a history of not giving the
> > expected life, then I don't even want to waste tiem and money with them
> > again.
>
> Mike,
>
> I use hundreds of 9 volt batteries every year. I've tried many different
> types and I've come to the conclusion that all of the latest battery
> technology isn't worth the price being charged. Here is a link to
Seattle's
> Westlake Electronics which sell's Everyready Industrials for .95 cents
each.
> You won't find a better battery deal anywhere. These batteries last just
as
> long as the ProCells I was using prior to them. I've never had a dud and I
> know Westlake's stock is always fresh. They ship anywhere so maybe you and
> some other mixers in your area can go in on a large purchase and share the
> shipping charges. Even with shipping I bet your price per unit will be
> around $1 which is pretty hard to beat. Also, these industrials ship with
> the little plastic terminal caps which I prefer so I can tell a new
battery
> from a used battery without jerking my tounge!
>
>
http://www.westlake-electronic.com/cgi-bin/store.php?search=yes&detail=yes&c
ategory=BAT&SUBCAT=EVE-&item_no=EVE-EN22
>
> I can't give you any direct comparisons to the RF mics you use because I
use
> the much higher power output and higher power consumption Lectrosonics RF
> mics. I get at least 4.5 hours from these batteries on a Lectrosonics 200
> series transmitter outputing at 100 millivolts which is more than enough
> time for me. I'd rather put a low priced battery in every 4 hours or every
> job than risk failure by trying to stretch it or losing track of how much
> time is on the battery over multiple days. New day, new battery...only .95
> cents!
>
> Charles Tomaras
> Seattle, WA
>
>
Thanks for the info. I can't do anything with it for about 2 weeks. My
daughter's waterbag broke and we are headed to Springfield to meat our first
grandchild!!!! : )

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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[ulysses]

"Mike Dobony" > wrote:

>That is why I am asking about real world experience with these batteries.
>Different constructions and materials mean different drain rates, hence my
>question concerning real life usage.

No, actually it's the device you put the battery into that determines the drain
rate, not the battery itself. If your microphones draw 100mA, then the battery
will obviously not last as long as an application that draws 50mA. What is not
so obvious though, is that the total output (mAH) will not be the same either.
How it differs is not predictable, or if it is, it requires data not presented
here in this thread. The first thing you could do is determine the range of
current draw of the device in which you're using these batteries. Then you
could download the battery manufacturer's data sheets and see if it gives
curves for different current outputs.

ulysses