Fostex FR2

[Jeffrey Friedman]

I just started playing around with this. Has anyone else had a go at
it? Any ideas on powering it without a big lead/acid 12 V, the
internal batteries (8 AAs, not 2 or 4 as on the Fostex site specs)
only go about 2 hours. Any impression of the A/Ds and internal
preamp at 24 bit and 96 or 192 kH? Any way around the 2 Gig
file limit?

Jeff

[Sugarite]

> I just started playing around with this. Has anyone else had a go at
> it? Any ideas on powering it without a big lead/acid 12 V, the
> internal batteries (8 AAs, not 2 or 4 as on the Fostex site specs)
> only go about 2 hours. Any impression of the A/Ds and internal
> preamp at 24 bit and 96 or 192 kH? Any way around the 2 Gig
> file limit?

I don't need to test this unit to see that Fostex is once again just posting
numbers. 192kHz a/d is pretty much useless when it's matched with op-amp
preamps that compare with Behringer and Mackie mixers. I don't see a line
input...

Using PCMCIA drives and flash cards is certainly progressive, but it's much
better and much less expensive to just use a high-capacity 2.5" 4200rpm
laptop drive and interface with it over Firewire.

I also think it's inexcuseable not to have an integrated lithium-ion
rechargeable battery system. If $100 portable mp3 players can have them
surely this $1400 unit can. Instead you pay over $2.50/hour to toss
chemical cells into landfills.

The best batteries for this rig will surely be lithium AA's
(non-rechargeable) just like with portable DATs. Best price I've seen on
them is at Walmart, $13.50/4, they last 10 hrs on a 250mA draw. However I
wouldn't dismiss the idea of a sealed lead-acid battery, they come in all
shapes and sizes and power capacities. I had an SLA battery for my old
TCD-D7 that was about the same size as the recorder, powered it for 52
hours. So by that logic an SLA battery the size of two DAT tapes would
power the FR2 as long as the lithium AA's, saving you $27 each charge.

Speaking of size, 10" x 4.5" x 8"?!! What the HELL is taking up all the
space?! Oh lord, it's got a built-in speaker... that's just laughable.

I'll keep my Nomad Jukebox 3 thanks. After getting used to rechargeable
Li-ion, 20GB storage, and Firewire, I couldn't possibly go back.

[Logan Shaw]

Jeffrey Friedman wrote:

> I just started playing around with this. Has anyone else had a go at
> it? Any ideas on powering it without a big lead/acid 12 V, the
> internal batteries (8 AAs, not 2 or 4 as on the Fostex site specs)
> only go about 2 hours.

From some quick digging on the web, it seems to have a DC power
input. So one thing to do is build yourself a really simple
external battery pack that takes eight D-cell batteries. You can put
Alkaline D-cells in it, or put NiMH or NiCd ones in it. You should
come out ahead on the running time for two reasons: more battery
capacity in general, and you're also not drawing all that much
current compared to the size of the battery (I believe a battery will
typically give you less total energy if you draw higher current).

- Logan

[Scott Dorsey]

Sugarite > wrote:
>Speaking of size, 10" x 4.5" x 8"?!! What the HELL is taking up all the
>space?! Oh lord, it's got a built-in speaker... that's just laughable.

The built-in speaker on these things turns out to be very handy. I know
I often use the one on the HHB DAT deck and on the Nagra. They don't sound
very good, but they don't have to, and they provide verification to everyone
around that something got recorded.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I just started playing around with this. Has anyone else had a go at
> it? Any ideas on powering it without a big lead/acid 12 V, the
> internal batteries

I didn't realize it was available yet. I saw it at the AES show and
was interested, but didn't expect it until the Spring, at least,
considering its state of not-build at the time. Other than battery
life, which is always a problem, how's it working for you?

I wouldn't use it for 192 kHz, probalby just 44.1 or 48 kHz, and I
would expect the mic preamps to be in the "usable but not outstanding"
category. I guess you don't really have a good means to judge since
you asked, but how are they as far as gain? Can you get a decent
level, at least -20 dBFS, for ambient "nature-like" sounds? That's a
good test.

I would think that using a sealed lead-acid battery to replace an
external power supply (assuming the external power input is DC) would
be perfectly reasonable, but you'd be on the hook for finding a
suitable charger, and it wouldn't be a neat package.

What are you using for recording media? I'd be tempted to get a couple
of the PCMCIA disk drives, but I don't know how much they cost. Have
you investigated that?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Charles Tomaras]

"Sugarite" > wrote in message
...
> > I just started playing around with this. Has anyone else had a go at
> > it? Any ideas on powering it without a big lead/acid 12 V, the
> > internal batteries (8 AAs, not 2 or 4 as on the Fostex site specs)
> > only go about 2 hours. Any impression of the A/Ds and internal
> > preamp at 24 bit and 96 or 192 kH? Any way around the 2 Gig
> > file limit?
>
> I don't need to test this unit to see that Fostex is once again just
posting
> numbers. 192kHz a/d is pretty much useless when it's matched with op-amp
> preamps that compare with Behringer and Mackie mixers. I don't see a line
> input...

The XLR inputs are switchable between mic and line level and I believe the
preamp is taken out of the circuit and not padded down in line input.

>
> Using PCMCIA drives and flash cards is certainly progressive, but it's
much
> better and much less expensive to just use a high-capacity 2.5" 4200rpm
> laptop drive and interface with it over Firewire.
>
> I also think it's inexcuseable not to have an integrated lithium-ion
> rechargeable battery system. If $100 portable mp3 players can have them
> surely this $1400 unit can. Instead you pay over $2.50/hour to toss
> chemical cells into landfills.
>
> The best batteries for this rig will surely be lithium AA's
> (non-rechargeable) just like with portable DATs. Best price I've seen on
> them is at Walmart, $13.50/4, they last 10 hrs on a 250mA draw. However I
> wouldn't dismiss the idea of a sealed lead-acid battery, they come in all
> shapes and sizes and power capacities. I had an SLA battery for my old
> TCD-D7 that was about the same size as the recorder, powered it for 52
> hours. So by that logic an SLA battery the size of two DAT tapes would
> power the FR2 as long as the lithium AA's, saving you $27 each charge.
>
> Speaking of size, 10" x 4.5" x 8"?!! What the HELL is taking up all the
> space?! Oh lord, it's got a built-in speaker... that's just laughable.


This recorder is aimed at the Location Sound for Film and Video market which
means for the most part it is for recording dialoge in the field in the same
manner as the Fostex PD-2, PD-4 and now the PD-6. I'd imagine a hefty
percentage of buyers will also puchase the time code option. You would have
great difficulty reliably using your Nomad in these of location situations.
The built in speaker proves extremely useful for playing back takes in the
field. For the price Fostex looks to have come up with a great recorder at a
very affordable $2000. You might also be interested in the yet to be
released Sound Devices 722 and 744t series of 4 track non-linear field
recorders.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm




>
> I'll keep my Nomad Jukebox 3 thanks. After getting used to rechargeable
> Li-ion, 20GB storage, and Firewire, I couldn't possibly go back.
>
>

[Jeffrey Friedman]

On 20 Feb 2004 08:54:10 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>
>What are you using for recording media? I'd be tempted to get a couple
>of the PCMCIA disk drives, but I don't know how much they cost. Have
>you investigated that?

I am using a 5 GB Toshiba PCMCIA card, and have another on order.
The one I just ordered costs $147. You can also use CF, with 6-8 GB
cards promised soon (you can have both types in the machine at the
same time, but continuous recording is limited by a 2 GB file size
limit). To correct some other things said in the thread: it will sell
for about $1250 or so, not $2000, and it does have digital in and out
(AES, but digital in limited to 96 kH or under), analog in is AES with
switchable phantom power, analog out is RCA. The time-code card
is not yet available, I don't know the price for it. A 12V lead/acid
with a cable ending in a Radio Shack "D" connector should work,
but not exactly be super-portable. I am now trying it with the new
Radio Shack AA "15 minute" rechargeables (2000 mAh rated),
it's a bit messy to change out 8 for 8 fresh ones, but at least I
can recharge quickly. The Sound Devices 722, when it comes
out, looks a bit more sensible in this regard.

And yes, I have tried a Nomad Jukebox3, in addition to the Russian
Roulette connectors it has problems for me, I can't convince myself
I can get it to work as reliably as DAT. I am also trying the iRiver
120 and Neuros, which seem a bit sturdier, but they have file size
limitations (iRiver at about 700 MB) and other issues. The Fostex
is big, but it looks like it will do what I tell it to without
problems. I hope that at least the 24/96 is for real and will
give an audible improvement over DAT (to be continued).

Jeff

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> And yes, I have tried a Nomad Jukebox3, in addition to the Russian
> Roulette connectors it has problems for me, I can't convince myself
> I can get it to work as reliably as DAT.

I had trouble believing in it myself, but so far it's never let me
down.

> The Fostex
> is big, but it looks like it will do what I tell it to without
> problems.

Big is good. Smaller than an AG-440 in portable cases is better. A
recorder of the size and form factor of the Fostex won't slip off the
table as easily as a Jukebox if someone trips over a cable, and it's
easier to find the buttons in a hurry (or in the dark) and I'll bet
the meters are more usable.

> I hope that at least the 24/96 is for real and will
> give an audible improvement over DAT (to be continued).

I think that the difference will be a function of the analog input
circuitry (or outboard A/D converters and mic preamps, if you choose
to use them). I would expect that 24/44.1 would be an improvement over
DATs that you've used in the past simply because of better converters
(and hopefully not worse because of inferior analog circuitry). I
wouldn't expect to be blown away by 96 kHz without putting better
inputs (and outputs) around it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo