Syncing Audio With Video

[henryf]

Steven Dillon wrote:
> All,
> Does anyone know how to sync audio (recorded on a home studio system)
> with video recorded on say Hi8 tape?
>
> Any idea how pros do this for videos? Is there some type of marker that
> is put on both devices at the same time so that when they are lined up
> everything is in sync?
>

Do you mean like filming two boards clapping at the beginning
of a scene?

[Steven Dillon]

All,
Does anyone know how to sync audio (recorded on a home studio system)
with video recorded on say Hi8 tape?

Any idea how pros do this for videos? Is there some type of marker that
is put on both devices at the same time so that when they are lined up
everything is in sync?

I'm thinking about filming my home studio practice sessions (just in case
a tune or two would produce a decent looking and sounding video) but
I have no idea how I would ever connect the audio with the video....

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks,

Steven Dillon

[Chris Whealy]

Steven Dillon wrote:
> All,
> Does anyone know how to sync audio (recorded on a home studio system)
> with video recorded on say Hi8 tape?
>
> Any idea how pros do this for videos? Is there some type of marker that
> is put on both devices at the same time so that when they are lined up
> everything is in sync?
>
> I'm thinking about filming my home studio practice sessions (just in case
> a tune or two would produce a decent looking and sounding video) but
> I have no idea how I would ever connect the audio with the video....

To be honest, unless you're recording equipment (for both audio and
video) can lay down timecode, you could be in for problems.

Timecode comes in two flavours, longitudinal timecode (LTC) (audio and
video) or SMPTE timecode (video only), and its purpose its to give every
video frame a unique timestamp. Almost all modern digital audio
recorders lay down LTC as they record.

Without the help of timecode, your audio and video sources will almost
always run at *slightly* different speeds. You could then end up with
lip sync problems that become progressively worse (depending on the
length of time the two sources run together, and their speed difference).

You could go back to the old clapper board concept to synchronise your
start point, but unfortunately, this won't guarantee that slippage won't
happen.

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

[Richard Crowley]

"Steven Dillon" wrote ...
> Does anyone know how to sync audio (recorded on a home
> studio system) with video recorded on say Hi8 tape?
>
> Any idea how pros do this for videos? Is there some type
> of marker that is put on both devices at the same time so
> that when they are lined up everything is in sync?

In prehistoric days (and still for film) they use a physical
"slate" or "clap sticks" to establish a sync point for each
shot.

In video, however, timecode pretty much replaces the need
for a physical sync point. Modern sound recording for both
video and film use SMPTE timecode (or equivalent). Even
equipment which is not physically connected is "jam-synced"
once or twice a day to keep them aligned. (Note that for
"film style" production, even when shot on video, uses a
slate at the head of each shot to identify the scene/take, etc.
to aid the post-production editing process.)

> I'm thinking about filming my home studio practice sessions
> (just in case a tune or two would produce a decent looking
> and sounding video) but I have no idea how I would ever
> connect the audio with the video....

Many of us do "music videos" or concert productions with
several "consumer" or "pro-sumer" camcorders. At every
shot change (cut, dissolve, etc.) you have an opportunity to
bring the video and audio back in sync. This is essentially
trivial to do with modern non-linear editing (NLE) apps
(Adobe Premiere, etc.)

However, shooting a long-form "scene" with a single camera
has more potential of drifting out of sync. But even this can be
overcome if you suck the video into a computer and edit
it (with NLE) and lay the mixed audio track back into
alignment.

[dt king]

"Steven Dillon" > wrote in message
news:JLhEb.10507$WQ3.530@lakeread05...
> Thanks to all who have responded! This is excellent information!!
>
> Am I going to need a really beefed up computer (4 processors and
> 1G of memory) to be able to run this type of software?
>
> How "difficult" is it to lay the mixed audio track back into alignment
> with the video once both are inside the computer? Will Adobe
> Premiere allow me to do that? Should I consider any other software
> packages for accomplishing this?
>
> One final question, has anyone tried taking what the software
> produces and writing it to say a DVD? That would be pretty
> cool!

Thanksgiving day, after installing my cakewalk upgrade, I wanted to try the
video dubbing at least once. I downloaded a silent film clip from library
of congress, sequenced midi audio over it, converted it to mpeg with some
freeware I found on the internet and burned it to a video CD using Nero
Express that came with my CDRW. Whole project took a half day. Worked
fine on my old Pentium 500 and looked surprisingly good on the television.
If you're not mixing for HDTV, the quality bar is set pretty low.

If I'd wanted to edit the video, I'd need another program.-- or drag the
old Mac out of the garage, I think.

dtk

[Steven Dillon]

Thanks to all who have responded! This is excellent information!!

Am I going to need a really beefed up computer (4 processors and
1G of memory) to be able to run this type of software?

How "difficult" is it to lay the mixed audio track back into alignment
with the video once both are inside the computer? Will Adobe
Premiere allow me to do that? Should I consider any other software
packages for accomplishing this?

One final question, has anyone tried taking what the software
produces and writing it to say a DVD? That would be pretty
cool!

Thanks again,

Steven Dillon

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Steven Dillon" wrote ...
> > Does anyone know how to sync audio (recorded on a home
> > studio system) with video recorded on say Hi8 tape?
> >
> > Any idea how pros do this for videos? Is there some type
> > of marker that is put on both devices at the same time so
> > that when they are lined up everything is in sync?
>
> In prehistoric days (and still for film) they use a physical
> "slate" or "clap sticks" to establish a sync point for each
> shot.
>
> In video, however, timecode pretty much replaces the need
> for a physical sync point. Modern sound recording for both
> video and film use SMPTE timecode (or equivalent). Even
> equipment which is not physically connected is "jam-synced"
> once or twice a day to keep them aligned. (Note that for
> "film style" production, even when shot on video, uses a
> slate at the head of each shot to identify the scene/take, etc.
> to aid the post-production editing process.)
>
> > I'm thinking about filming my home studio practice sessions
> > (just in case a tune or two would produce a decent looking
> > and sounding video) but I have no idea how I would ever
> > connect the audio with the video....
>
> Many of us do "music videos" or concert productions with
> several "consumer" or "pro-sumer" camcorders. At every
> shot change (cut, dissolve, etc.) you have an opportunity to
> bring the video and audio back in sync. This is essentially
> trivial to do with modern non-linear editing (NLE) apps
> (Adobe Premiere, etc.)
>
> However, shooting a long-form "scene" with a single camera
> has more potential of drifting out of sync. But even this can be
> overcome if you suck the video into a computer and edit
> it (with NLE) and lay the mixed audio track back into
> alignment.
>
>

[Richard Crowley]

"Steven Dillon" wrote ...
> Am I going to need a really beefed up computer
> (4 processors and 1G of memory) to be able to
> run this type of software?

No. I have produced 60 minute videos (including an
instructional tape on choral conducting that is selling
on most continents) on a 300 MHz Pentium 2 with 256Mb
of RAM. and that was with old Premiere 5.1

> How "difficult" is it to lay the mixed audio track back
> into alignment with the video once both are inside the
> computer?
>
> Will Adobe Premiere allow me to do that? Should I
> consider any other software packages for accomplishing
> this?

It is quite simple with most NLE applications. Just grab
the sound track and move it forward/back until the sound
syncs with the picture. Takes longer to explain than to do
it.

> One final question, has anyone tried taking what the
> software produces and writing it to say a DVD?

People do it all the time. Note that video editing questions
really belong on the newsgroup news:rec.video.desktop

> That would be pretty cool!

That might depend on the content! :-)

[JR]

In article >,
Psy > wrote:

> "Steven Dillon" > lost his marbles in
> news:ofaEb.9329$WQ3.1563@lakeread05:
>
> > Any idea how pros do this for videos?
> Vegas Video on PC. Adobe Premiere on Mac. Or Avid if you've really got the
> cash.


Final Cut Pro on Mac....I do alot of Film and TV work and have never
seen anything but Avid or Final Cut Pro for feature release filmas to
network TV.

JR

[Hal Laurent]

"anthony.gosnell" > wrote in message
...
>
> Vegas Video is also very popular for PC, as is Final Cut Pro for Mac.
>

Vegas hasn't been called Vegas Video for quite a long time. Sonic
Foundry (now Sony Mediasomethingorother) combined Vegas Video
and Vegas Audio into the same product several years ago.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
JR > wrote:
>In article >,
> Psy > wrote:
>
>> "Steven Dillon" > lost his marbles in
>> news:ofaEb.9329$WQ3.1563@lakeread05:
>>
>> > Any idea how pros do this for videos?
>> Vegas Video on PC. Adobe Premiere on Mac. Or Avid if you've really got the
>> cash.
>
>Final Cut Pro on Mac....I do alot of Film and TV work and have never
>seen anything but Avid or Final Cut Pro for feature release filmas to
>network TV.

I still see Steenbecks every once in a while...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Marc Wielage]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 6:53:14 -0800, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in message >):

> I still see Steenbecks every once in a while...
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Not in LA, not in NY, and not in Chicago to my knowledge.

I was over at the Moviola company a few months back, and saw a storage room
with about 150 old Moviola film-editing devices in them. I asked about them,
and one of the employees laughed and said, "hey, if you wanna drag one away,
you can take your pick for fifty bucks."

You can't GIVE that stuff away any more. Some film stuff, yeah -- but not
flatbed editors. They need a ton of maintenance, and the parts are just too
hard to get. Steenbeck is even worse, because I believe those were made in
Germany. Those have been gone for more than 10 years.

--MFW

[Scott Dorsey]

Marc Wielage > wrote:
>
>I was over at the Moviola company a few months back, and saw a storage room
>with about 150 old Moviola film-editing devices in them. I asked about them,
>and one of the employees laughed and said, "hey, if you wanna drag one away,
>you can take your pick for fifty bucks."

I just paid ten bucks for a six-plate one myself. But I gotta say, it ain't
no Steenbeck... the image quality is pretty dreadful and it's definitely
much more rough on film.

>You can't GIVE that stuff away any more. Some film stuff, yeah -- but not
>flatbed editors. They need a ton of maintenance, and the parts are just too
>hard to get. Steenbeck is even worse, because I believe those were made in
>Germany. Those have been gone for more than 10 years.

No, parts for the KEM and Steenbeck stuff aren't all that hard to come by.
In part because there are spare parts machines available for cheap all over.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Marc Wielage]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 11:29:24 -0800, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in message >):

> I just paid ten bucks for a six-plate one myself. But I gotta say, it ain't
> no Steenbeck... the image quality is pretty dreadful and it's definitely
> much more rough on film.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

I remember the KEM's as looking pretty decent, but I only used a Moviola
flatbed once, and that was more than 25 years ago. Never saw a Steenbeck
where I worked in Florida and LA.

But my point is the same: virtually no one uses this stuff. There are some
things for which there is no nostalgia and little or no value. I think one
thing that qualifies is obsolete computers; another is old analog composite
video gear (like 1" VTRs). And another is old film editing gear. They're
footnotes in history now.

Some things hold on to a value, though. Film splicers are plentiful, but
still cost $100 or more. But flatbed editors? Uh-uh. Ten bucks is pretty
much what they're worth in 2003.

--MFW

[Scott Dorsey]

Marc Wielage > wrote:
>
>But my point is the same: virtually no one uses this stuff. There are some
>things for which there is no nostalgia and little or no value. I think one
>thing that qualifies is obsolete computers; another is old analog composite
>video gear (like 1" VTRs). And another is old film editing gear. They're
>footnotes in history now.

Mostly. I still get two or three guys a year coming in and doing mix
on magfilm, which is basically why I got the thing. I see films now and
then, especially indy releases, which have "EDITED ON STEENBECK" in the
credits, or "EDITED WITHOUT THE USE OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY." It's definitely
a Luddite thing, but it's not totally gone.

On the other hand, linear video editing is totally gone. Good riddance too.

>Some things hold on to a value, though. Film splicers are plentiful, but
>still cost $100 or more. But flatbed editors? Uh-uh. Ten bucks is pretty
>much what they're worth in 2003.

Yup. I figure it it costs me ten bucks, I can get it running with ten or
twenty hours and a few bearings, that one or two rentals a year will more
than pay for the space it takes up. Melissa, who had to carry it into the
house, may disagree.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."