sub $2000 rackmount mixer for project studio -- mic pre opinions

[Straatocastoer]

I am considering a rack mounted board to add to my home/hobbyist
project studio supplementing my Digi002/PTLE rig. I have a Behringer
UB2442 (yes, I know I know I know … but it was only $150) that I am
completely dissatisfied with sonically, but having the board itself is
very helpful in adding mic pres, zero latency monitoring of tracks
while recording, and summing/routing headphone mixes – as well as
other duties as needed.

Now I am ready to upgrade this piece, and am willing to consider any
product that will fill the bill at or below $2000 (my wife says the
less expensive the better, but what does she know?? <yes dear>). I
have looked at the A&H MixWiz 14:4:2, the Mackie VLZ 1624, but I know
that there are products at this price point made by SoundCraft and
other manufacturers that should be considered as well.

I have searched across the NG for information regarding what I am
looking for, but my specific application doesn't seem to have been
addressed. I am concerned primarily with mic pre performance. I have
a single-channel outboard pre for critical applications, but when I
have a multi-mic function (i.e., a drum kit, or horn section, or small
ensemble, etc., etc.) I would like to have a board that is going to
give me pleasant mic pre performance, while still giving me the
routing benefits of having a separate analog mixer. Issues that
aren't of grave importance are EQ performance, built in effects, and
effects routing – since this is carried out during mixing with my 002.
What IS important to me is mic pre sound, direct outs, a moderate
level of signal routing capability, physically quiet operation, and a
rack mounted form factor.

So … I know that opinions are like a**holes, but I open the floor to
you guys. I was leaning heavily toward the A&H unit, but have found
that their mic pres are generally considered noisy and not as
transparent as the Mackie's -- but I have found the Mackie's are
considered to sound a bit cold and harsh. Now, I don't consider
myself a ‘professional' studio per se, but I do consider myself
somewhat of an audiophile (with a budget) and would like to extend my
services for profit at some time in the future. So with all of these
things in mind, your opinions please …

Stan

[Blind Joni]

>Take a good listen to the Crest XR-20. I owned an A&H, and consider the=20
>Crest a noticeable step up.
>

I agree..


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

[Peter Larsen]

Straatocastoer wrote:

> So … I know that opinions are like a**holes, but I open the floor to
> you guys. I was leaning heavily toward the A&H unit [mixwizard]

that's my gut feeling about this, but I haven't actually heard it.

> but have found that their mic pres are generally considered noisy

"Are considered"

> and not as transparent as the Mackie's

I don't want to say that they aren't, but I do find the small mackies I
have heard to be grainy. That is my opinion, and I am not talking about
the newest version of that six channel mixer they call a 14 channel one.
(I refuse to count channels that do not have a mic pre!)

> -- but I have found the Mackie's are
> considered to sound a bit cold and harsh.

"are considered"

> Now, I don't consider
> myself a ‘professional' studio per se, but I do consider myself
> somewhat of an audiophile (with a budget) and would like to extend my
> services for profit at some time in the future. So with all of these
> things in mind, your opinions please …

Listen for yourself. Neither are extremely expensive, so it is probable
that both have shortcomings. Choosing between those is a subjective
choice, we can all post what we think, but it is your experience that
matters, and it is yours only.

What I do not understand is why you want mixer hardware, allow me to
suggest a more investigative review of your options. If what you need is
cost-efficient mic pre's then perhaps that is what you should look for.

> Stan


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

[Lee Liebner]

Yes, XR-20. Excellent piece of gear for under $2k.

Lee

"Blind Joni" > wrote in message
...
> >Take a good listen to the Crest XR-20. I owned an A&H, and consider
the=20
> >Crest a noticeable step up.
> >
>
> I agree..
>
>
> John A. Chiara
> SOS Recording Studio
> Live Sound Inc.
> Albany, NY
> www.sosrecording.net
> 518-449-1637

[2mb]

Peter,
> What I do not understand is why you want mixer hardware, allow me to
> suggest a more investigative review of your options. If what you need is
> cost-efficient mic pre's then perhaps that is what you should look for.

right on... I can think of a lot of decent mic pres for <2k (for what it's
worth, I am still an amateur) which with a digi002 system, would be a far
more useful use of money. You could get a trakmaster, better than some (if
not most?) sub 2k mixer pres, for $349 bucks a strip. You could score a
really capable pre for 2k, probably with digital out for a little more.

But then again, I am a DAW geek so am biased against a bunch of pots and
faders on a horizontal surface, few of which I will ever use, and a few of
which will add noise to the signal chain one day, or possibly get bent or
broken, especially in a project or home studio.

I would rather get a much better input signal than have a console that I can
"afford".

I love to use them, they are really versatile, but hate the inevitable
depreciation and damage. I have gone through 3, before abandoning them
forever for on screen mixers. I use the reclaimed desk space for a second
monitor and midi controller.

I "get my console on" when I find myself helping musician buddies in their
home studio, doing "...that thing you showed me at your house, with the kick
drum, man".

l8,
2mb



"Peter Larsen" > wrote in message
...
> Straatocastoer wrote:
>
> > So . I know that opinions are like a**holes, but I open the floor to
> > you guys. I was leaning heavily toward the A&H unit [mixwizard]
>
> that's my gut feeling about this, but I haven't actually heard it.
>
> > but have found that their mic pres are generally considered noisy
>
> "Are considered"
>
> > and not as transparent as the Mackie's
>
> I don't want to say that they aren't, but I do find the small mackies I
> have heard to be grainy. That is my opinion, and I am not talking about
> the newest version of that six channel mixer they call a 14 channel one.
> (I refuse to count channels that do not have a mic pre!)
>
> > -- but I have found the Mackie's are
> > considered to sound a bit cold and harsh.
>
> "are considered"
>
> > Now, I don't consider
> > myself a 'professional' studio per se, but I do consider myself
> > somewhat of an audiophile (with a budget) and would like to extend my
> > services for profit at some time in the future. So with all of these
> > things in mind, your opinions please .
>
> Listen for yourself. Neither are extremely expensive, so it is probable
> that both have shortcomings. Choosing between those is a subjective
> choice, we can all post what we think, but it is your experience that
> matters, and it is yours only.
>
> What I do not understand is why you want mixer hardware, allow me to
> suggest a more investigative review of your options. If what you need is
> cost-efficient mic pre's then perhaps that is what you should look for.
>
> > Stan
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
> --
> ************************************************** ***********
> * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
> ************************************************** ***********

[Straatocastoer]

-------------
<ed> What I do not understand is why you want mixer hardware <ed>

Having the board itself is very helpful in adding mic pres (in a
project studio where my mic pre selection is limited currently), zero
latency monitoring of tracks while recording (big plus), and
summing/routing headphone mixes (to my headphone distribution system
for monitoring while tracking) -- as well as the "unforseen" events
where a piece of equipment such as this will come in handy.

--------------
<ed> "are considered" <ed>

Yes, my 'are considered' remarks are a reflection of opinions that I
have read and heard. I am a newbie compared to the experience of the
posters on rec.audio.pro, and I value your opinions -- whether or not
I make practical use of those opinions is my discretion, right? :)

I have listened to the products that I can, and I find that the
differences are hard to detect at some degree -- BUT I am also finding
that the longer I use equipment, and the more experience I gather, my
hearing becomes more sensitive and my tastes more refined. I am
leaning on the experience of the posters of this NG to give me their
opinions because my listening skills are still developing. I am
hoping to jump over the learning curve a bit by using your wisdom and
hopefully parlay that into a longer period of relevance for equipment
that I purchase.

I'd love to go out and fill my mic locker with U87's and Telefunken
products to run through an SSL board connected to a custom built
monitoring system ... but that doesn't make sense for me at this
period. However, getting experienced opinions on a piece of equipment
that I consider to be moderately priced is very useful.

Thanks!

[Straatocastoer]

> Yes, XR-20. Excellent piece of gear for under $2k.
>
> Lee
>
> "Blind Joni" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Take a good listen to the Crest XR-20. I owned an A&H, and consider
> the=20
> > >Crest a noticeable step up.
> > >
> >
> > I agree..

Thank you for pointing me in this direction. A very compelling piece
of gear for me to consider ... looks like it has all the functionality
that I need for my small setup, and if it is sonically sound (pardon
the pun), this could be exactly what I am looking for!

[Peter Larsen]

Straatocastoer wrote:

> <ed> "are considered" <ed>

> Yes, my 'are considered' remarks are a reflection of opinions that I
> have read and heard. I am a newbie compared to the experience of the
> posters on rec.audio.pro, and I value your opinions -- whether or not
> I make practical use of those opinions is my discretion, right? :)

Peoples opinions about the sound of some equipment can tell you what to
listen for, but not whether it is "a problem" in the context of your use
of said equipment.

> I have listened to the products that I can, and I find that the
> differences are hard to detect at some degree -- BUT I am also finding
> that the longer I use equipment, and the more experience I gather, my
> hearing becomes more sensitive and my tastes more refined.

Yeees. Take care that you still have a sense of hearing when you have
learned to use it.

> I'd love to go out and fill my mic locker with U87's and Telefunken

I wouldn't, they are useless to my kind of recording.

> products to run through an SSL board

SSL is like a Yamaha piano, it is great at doing things.

> Thanks!

Oh, you are most welcome. Asking questions and finding the right
approach to solving whatever one needs to get solved saves grief and
reduces the number of erroneus purchases made.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********