Recording the audience

[John Patrick]

I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and then use
a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end up with too much
bleed from the performers mic through the house sound system. Is there a
way I can minimize this?

Thanks!

jp

[Scott Dorsey]

John Patrick > wrote:
>I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
>Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and then use
>a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end up with too much
>bleed from the performers mic through the house sound system. Is there a
>way I can minimize this?

Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the nulls
as much as possible.

Duck the ambient mikes a little bit with the direct feed in post.

Use as little ambient mike as possible.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Kurt Albershardt]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the nulls
> as much as possible.

The remote trucks often use shotguns on top of the stacks for this.
I'ce had pretty good luck with a hypercardioid on a Manfrotto boomstand
up & over the mains with its null positioned appropriately. Worth
taking the time to locate the null by soloing the mic & moving its
position while listening to CD playback through the mains.

[john muir]

There is a good article called "Recording The Audience" in MIX Mag. Here's the url:

http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_recording_audience/index.htm

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> >>Usually, I end
> >>up with too much bleed from the performers mic through the house
> >>sound system. Is there a way I can minimize this?

> NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your compressor
> can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house channel into the
> sidechain of your compressor and set the compressor so that whenever
> the house feed is happening the ambience mics are ducked.

There's something wrong with using the controls on the mixer? Mixing
audience/ambience is something that needs to be done with good
judgement, often trading audience enthusiasm for mud, but for just
long enough so that the listener knows that there's an enthusiastic
audience out there. Then you put back the clarity.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Benjamin Maas]

This would be a really BAD job for a compressor... Far too little control
over exactly what is happening. For audience mics, you really need faders
to control how much of the ambient sound is being allowed in when you bring
them in. Otherwise you end up with an image that is constantly changing.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

> wrote in message
...
>
> On 2003-11-19 (ScottDorsey) said:
> >Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> >John Patrick > wrote:
> >>I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
> >>Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and
> >>then use a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end
> >>up with too much bleed from the performers mic through the house
> >>sound system. Is there a way I can minimize this?
> >Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the
> >nulls as much as possible.
> >Duck the ambient mikes a little bit with the direct feed in post.
> >Use as little ambient mike as possible.
> NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your compressor
> can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house channel into the
> sidechain of your compressor and set the compressor so that whenever
> the house feed is happening the ambience mics are ducked.
>
> AS for settings, I use my ears and set the compressor so that it
> sounds good. cOuldn't tell you what the knobs on the front say <g>.
> NOw I dare someone to ask what the sidechain input nad output are for
> on their compressor without doing a google <(if they've got access to
> it which I don't) <g>.
>
> regards,
>
>
>
> Richard Webb
> Electric Spider Productions
> REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email
>
> --
>
>
>
> "Standing in the Glare of Quantization" Watch for it on
> Empty-Vee.--- Hank Alrich

[Ralf Köster]

> Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the =
nulls
> as much as possible. =20

Just curious:
Anyone tried to use two mics facing the audience (in parallel) with as =
much distance from the speakers as possible and quite apart from each =
other. And then phase-invert one and mix them together. ??? (Well, that =
will probably mostly affect the low frequencies..., hugh)

....Ralf

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> 0junk4me@bell south.net writes:

> > >>Usually, I end
> > >>up with too much bleed from the performers mic through the house
> > >>sound system. Is there a way I can minimize this?

> > NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your compressor
> > can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house channel into the
> > sidechain of your compressor and set the compressor so that whenever
> > the house feed is happening the ambience mics are ducked.

> There's something wrong with using the controls on the mixer? Mixing
> audience/ambience is something that needs to be done with good
> judgement, often trading audience enthusiasm for mud, but for just
> long enough so that the listener knows that there's an enthusiastic
> audience out there. Then you put back the clarity.

Hard to videotape and mix simultaneously. Seems like a cool idea to use
a comp ducking the mains, _given his application_.

Otherwise, I'm with you and will be mixing crowd tracks as soon as the
singers decide what songs they prefer...

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Benjamin Maas wrote:

> This would be a really BAD job for a compressor... Far too little control
> over exactly what is happening. For audience mics, you really need faders
> to control how much of the ambient sound is being allowed in when you bring
> them in. Otherwise you end up with an image that is constantly changing.

He's talking about getting sound while videtaping _a comdeian_. This
ain't the Filledharmonica, Ben. <g>

The comp would do it just like those laff tracks in ****ty old TV shows.
One minute there's no audience; next thing ya know there's synchronous
clapping and/or laughter. Sounds about right for comedy.

--
ha

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
LeBaron & Alrich > wrote:
>Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> 0junk4me@bell south.net writes:
>
>> > >>Usually, I end
>> > >>up with too much bleed from the performers mic through the house
>> > >>sound system. Is there a way I can minimize this?
>
>> > NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your compressor
>> > can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house channel into the
>> > sidechain of your compressor and set the compressor so that whenever
>> > the house feed is happening the ambience mics are ducked.
>
>> There's something wrong with using the controls on the mixer? Mixing
>> audience/ambience is something that needs to be done with good
>> judgement, often trading audience enthusiasm for mud, but for just
>> long enough so that the listener knows that there's an enthusiastic
>> audience out there. Then you put back the clarity.
>
>Hard to videotape and mix simultaneously. Seems like a cool idea to use
>a comp ducking the mains, _given his application_.

You don't videotape and mix simultaneously. You put the audience mike on
one channel, and the stage feed on the other, and you mix to mono in post.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Kuschel]

>
>John Patrick > wrote:
>>I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
>>Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and then use
>>a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end up with too much
>>bleed from the performers mic through the house sound system. Is there a
>>way I can minimize this?
>
>Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the nulls
>as much as possible.
>
>Duck the ambient mikes a little bit with the direct feed in post.
>
>Use as little ambient mike as possible.
>--scott
>--
>"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>

Figure 8's can be your friend here.

They can be placed above or in the audience with the nulls facing the stage.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

[Mike Caffrey]

In article >, "John
Patrick" > wrote:

> I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
> Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and then use
> a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end up with too much
> bleed from the performers mic through the house sound system. Is there a
> way I can minimize this?
>
> Thanks!
>
> jp

I've mixed a bunch of comedy albums lately and while I haed the sound of
the PA the producers and the comedians were totally focused on the
audience reactiona dn making it sound like you are in the room when you
are listeningin to the album.

I'd use multiple omnis, no compression and lots of headroom. Also, alwasy
put a foma pop filter over the mic and mult- to two tracks with one padded
becuase when the make their sound effects they're always horribly
distorted from peaking. Also, get the settings right at the begining and
don't change them at all. The editing that goes on in the mix stage can
range from subtle to really extreme. Sometimes it's necessary to jump from
show to show and it's a really pain when each of 2-6 shows sounds
different because the live engineer kept changing things.



www.monsterisland.com

[[email protected]]

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:57:42 GMT
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On 2003-11-19 (ScottDorsey) said:
>Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
>John Patrick > wrote:
>>I frequently am hired to videotape stand up comedian performances.
>>Typically, a get the direct audio from the house sound system, and
>>then use a condensor mic or two for the audience. Usually, I end
>>up with too much bleed from the performers mic through the house
>>sound system. Is there a way I can minimize this?
>Use directional microphones and try and get the house system in the
>nulls as much as possible.
>Duck the ambient mikes a little bit with the direct feed in post.
>Use as little ambient mike as possible.
NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your compressor
can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house channel into the
sidechain of your compressor and set the compressor so that whenever
the house feed is happening the ambience mics are ducked.

AS for settings, I use my ears and set the compressor so that it
sounds good. cOuldn't tell you what the knobs on the front say <g>.
NOw I dare someone to ask what the sidechain input nad output are for
on their compressor without doing a google <(if they've got access to
it which I don't) <g>.

regards,



Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



"Standing in the Glare of Quantization" Watch for it on
Empty-Vee.--- Hank Alrich

[[email protected]]

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:40:54 GMT
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On 2003-11-20 said:
writes: >>Usually, I end
>> NOw for the newbies out there a tip: tHIs is a job your
>>compressor can handle if set appropriately. Feed the house
>>channel into the sidechain of your compressor and set the
>>compressor so that whenever the house feed is happening the
>ambience mics are ducked. There's something wrong with using the
>controls on the mixer? Mixing audience/ambience is something that
>needs to be done with good judgement, often trading audience
>enthusiasm for mud, but for just long enough so that the listener
>knows that there's an enthusiastic audience out there. Then you put
>back the clarity. --
NOt at all, in fact I prefer to do it that way, but when it was quick
and dirty have done it the other <g>.

I see one of those queries to this group once in awhile about what the
sidechain on their compressor or gate is for and thought I'd throw
that one out there <g>. IT still can't give you the control that you
have by using your ears and the faders however, that's why you've got
fingers and eras after all isn't it?
FOr best results engage 'em both.

REgards,



Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--