RIP: Michael Kamen

[Rob Adelman]

Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
been up. He was 55.

"Grammy-Winning Composer Kamen Dies"
<http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news.asp?contentID=215574>

"Kamen collaborated with a wide range of artists, from the London
Philharmonic to Aerosmith , Metallica and jazz saxophonist David Sanborn."

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
Rob Adelman > wrote:

> Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> been up. He was 55.

Crap.

What a bummer.

His work on "The Wall", "Silent Lucidity", and "No Leaf Clover" were
fantastic.


CT

[Guitarboy]

In article >, Charles
Thomas > wrote:

> In article >,
> Rob Adelman > wrote:
>
> > Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> > been up. He was 55.
>
> Crap.
>
> What a bummer.
>
> His work on "The Wall", "Silent Lucidity", and "No Leaf Clover" were
> fantastic.
>
>
> CT
Very nice guy. I used to work with him (playing guitar) when he wrote
ballets for the Joffrey and Alvin Ailley Dance Co.. Hung out a little
and used to talk to him every few years. Very talented guy.

[Buster Mudd]

Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
> Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> been up. He was 55.
>

"Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.

(Can you tell I don't like his work?)

[Tommy B]

How very very sad.
tom
"Guitarboy" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, Charles
> Thomas > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Rob Adelman > wrote:
> >
> > > Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> > > been up. He was 55.
> >
> > Crap.
> >
> > What a bummer.
> >
> > His work on "The Wall", "Silent Lucidity", and "No Leaf Clover" were
> > fantastic.
> >
> >
> > CT
> Very nice guy. I used to work with him (playing guitar) when he wrote
> ballets for the Joffrey and Alvin Ailley Dance Co.. Hung out a little
> and used to talk to him every few years. Very talented guy.

[Jay Kadis]

In article >
(Buster Mudd) writes:
> Rob Adelman > wrote in message
>...
> > Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> > been up. He was 55.
> >
>
> "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
> 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
> who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
> one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
> awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.
>
> (Can you tell I don't like his work?)

I can tell there's a time and place and this isn't it.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[Charles Thomas]

In article >,
(Buster Mudd) wrote:

> "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
> 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
> who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
> one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
> awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.

Please provide links to samples of your orchestral work so we can make
some kind of comparison.

Then we'll be better able to make up our own minds.

CT

[R Krizman]

<< Sorry, don't mean to
be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan ....>>

What would you say if you WERE meaning to be completely disrespectful?

-R

[Buster Mudd]

(Jay Kadis) wrote in message >...
> In article >
> (Buster Mudd) writes:

> >
> > (Can you tell I don't like his work?)
>
> I can tell there's a time and place and this isn't it.
>


I'll grant you the Time thing. Place? If rec.audio.pro is the Place
where we can fawn all over a musician, then it is just as appropriate
a place where we can disparage that same musician.

[Steve]

(Buster Mudd) wrote in message >...
> Rob Adelman > wrote in message >...
> > Another artist & composer has left us way before his time should have
> > been up. He was 55.
> >
>
> "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
> 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
> who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
> one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
> awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.
>
> (Can you tell I don't like his work?)

I have had the pleasure of meeting Micheal Kamen a few years back in
Berlin and at his home in London.
He was a charming and considerate man. He was certainly talented.

Will anyone be able to say the same of you when your time comes?

Steve Lane

[ar3a]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message
om...
> (Jay Kadis) wrote in message
>...
> > In article >
> > (Buster Mudd) writes:
>
> > >
> > > (Can you tell I don't like his work?)
> >
> > I can tell there's a time and place and this isn't it.
> >
>
>
> I'll grant you the Time thing. Place? If rec.audio.pro is the Place
> where we can fawn all over a musician, then it is just as appropriate
> a place where we can disparage that same musician.

I think he meant place=RIP thread.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Please provide links to samples of your orchestral work so we can make
> some kind of comparison.

Not knowing any of Michale Kamen's work, I won't comment on it, but I
don't think that it's fair for you to ask to hear the work of his
critic here. You don't have to be a composer in order to recognize bad
music. Everybody has an opinion, that's just his.

If you want to know what he's using as a standard of comparison, ask
him who's doing similar kinds of things that he likes better.

Too bad about anyone dying unexpected at 55. That's even younger than
me.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Charles Thomas]

In article <znr1069278660k@trad>, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

> Everybody has an opinion, that's just his.

And some are more informed than others.

CT

[William Sommerwerck]

>> "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
>> 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
>> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
>> who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
>> one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
>> awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.

> Please provide links to samples of your orchestral work so we can make
> some kind of comparison.

> Then we'll be better able to make up our own minds.

In other words, it's not fair to criticize what you, yourself can't do? Spare
me.

As long as we're taking potshots at a person who died too young and can't defend
himslef... Kamen's Saxophone Concerto is one of the most God-awful pieces of
music I've ever heard.

[Jerry Gerber]

I don't know about whether it is fair or not to criticize what one cannot do
one's self. I do know that it is EASY to criticize, and very HARD to
compose/produce something of lasting value.

I also know that there is useful, insightful criticism that show the critic
has some knowledge of what the composer is attempting to accomplish, and
then there is the run-of-the-mill-all-too-common useless criticism that most
people utter most of the time. Everyone has an opinion, but not every
opinion is of equal value. I have gotten useless praise and constructive
criticism and I have gotten useless, mean and petty criticism and insightful
praise, it can work either way.

I do know that after having been a composer full time for the past 25 years
it is still very difficult to sustain a career, get community/peer support
and in general know for sure whether one's work is really fine or not. It
comes down to believing in one's self. In the end little else matters.


Jerry Gerber
www.jerrygerber.com




"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> >> "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
> >> 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
> >> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
> >> who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
> >> one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
> >> awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.
>
> > Please provide links to samples of your orchestral work so we can make
> > some kind of comparison.
>
> > Then we'll be better able to make up our own minds.
>
> In other words, it's not fair to criticize what you, yourself can't do?
Spare
> me.
>
> As long as we're taking potshots at a person who died too young and can't
defend
> himslef... Kamen's Saxophone Concerto is one of the most God-awful pieces
of
> music I've ever heard.
>

[ScotFraser]

<< << Sorry, don't mean to
be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan ....>> >>

I'm sure that's why Pink Floyd hired him, no real talent.


Scott Fraser

[Geoff Duncan]

"Jerry Gerber" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I don't know about whether it is fair or not to criticize what one cannot
do
> one's self. <SNIP>

An interesting point, because lots of people can produce other people
playing instruments that they themselves don't play.

But I think, rightly or wrongly, that just because *I* cant do something
well, doesnt mean I cant see the flaws in *someone elses* attempts to do
something.

If that weren't the case, there would be no world class coaches, only world
class players.


But, having said that, unhelpful, insensitive and inappropriately-timed
criticism, as demonstrated above, is still pointless.

FWIW...........


Geoff

[Ted Spencer]

>I have had the pleasure of meeting Micheal Kamen a few years back in
>Berlin and at his home in London.
>He was a charming and considerate man. He was certainly talented.
>
>Will anyone be able to say the same of you when your time comes?
>
>Steve Lane


I worked on Michael's first film score ("The Girl", a spy drama), as well as
several album projects at The Hit Factory in NYC in the late 70s. While he
wasn't the most well organized of composer/producers, he was a gentleman and a
talented multi-instrumentalist who had solid roots in classical and rock genres
- a key I think, to his later success. His track record as a film score
composer/songwriter in the decades following IMHO were ample proof of that.

He was a nice guy. To me and to everyone else we worked with. Rest in peace,
Michael.


Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

[Jerry Gerber]

"Geoff Duncan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jerry Gerber" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > I don't know about whether it is fair or not to criticize what one
cannot
> do
> > one's self. <SNIP>
>
> An interesting point, because lots of people can produce other people
> playing instruments that they themselves don't play.

And the question then becomes "Does Pavlov ring a bell?" ;>)



>
> But I think, rightly or wrongly, that just because *I* cant do something
> well, doesnt mean I cant see the flaws in *someone elses* attempts to do
> something.
>

This is true. Our ability to do is not always perfectly congruent with what
we can perceive. And yet there is always someone in the world who will
respond to bad music, someone who genuinely likes it although a musically
knowledgable person will say it lacks craft, or imagination, or structural
innovation, expression or color. But it attests to the power of music as a
force in our lives that this is so.


Jerry



> If that weren't the case, there would be no world class coaches, only
world
> class players.


>
>
> But, having said that, unhelpful, insensitive and inappropriately-timed
> criticism, as demonstrated above, is still pointless.
>
> FWIW...........
>
>
> Geoff
>
>

[Jerry Gerber]

It is actually a pun I heard I thought funny, which is, stated correctly
this time,

Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?

I have no idea why I thought of this in response to people being able to
produce and not play. I guess imitation is how we learn a great deal, but
a musical person understands with instinct, and those instincts show up as
ability in varying amounts to play, sing, conduct, compose, and improvise or
produce.

Jerry





"Jerry Gerber" > wrote in message news:...
>
> "Geoff Duncan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jerry Gerber" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > I don't know about whether it is fair or not to criticize what one
> cannot
> > do
> > > one's self. <SNIP>
> >
> > An interesting point, because lots of people can produce other people
> > playing instruments that they themselves don't play.
>
> And the question then becomes "Does Pavlov ring a bell?" ;>)
>
>
>
> >
> > But I think, rightly or wrongly, that just because *I* cant do something
> > well, doesnt mean I cant see the flaws in *someone elses* attempts to do
> > something.
> >
>
> This is true. Our ability to do is not always perfectly congruent with
what
> we can perceive. And yet there is always someone in the world who will
> respond to bad music, someone who genuinely likes it although a musically
> knowledgable person will say it lacks craft, or imagination, or structural
> innovation, expression or color. But it attests to the power of music as
a
> force in our lives that this is so.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> > If that weren't the case, there would be no world class coaches, only
> world
> > class players.
>
>
> >
> >
> > But, having said that, unhelpful, insensitive and inappropriately-timed
> > criticism, as demonstrated above, is still pointless.
> >
> > FWIW...........
> >
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
>
>

[William Sommerwerck]

> I do know that after having been a composer full time for the past 25 years
> it is still very difficult to sustain a career, get community/peer support
> and in general know for sure whether one's work is really fine or not. It
> comes down to believing in one's self. In the end little else matters.

True, but self-confidence is no proof of talent or ability. All self-confidence
does is allow you to ignore the existance of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Mahler,
etc.

[Todd McFadden]

TOUCHE!

T

"Charles Thomas" > wrote in
message ...
> In article >,
> (Buster Mudd) wrote:
>
> > "Artist"? My, aren't you being generous... Kamen's time was up about
> > 30 seconds after he conducted his first downbeat. Sorry, don't mean to
> > be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
> > who just new the right people & happened to own a tux that fit. I for
> > one am grateful we won't have to sit through another of his ham-fisted
> > awards show MD jobs, or his directionless treacly movie soundtracks.
>
> Please provide links to samples of your orchestral work so we can make
> some kind of comparison.
>
> Then we'll be better able to make up our own minds.
>
> CT

[Jerry Gerber]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> > I do know that after having been a composer full time for the past 25
years
> > it is still very difficult to sustain a career, get community/peer
support
> > and in general know for sure whether one's work is really fine or not.
It
> > comes down to believing in one's self. In the end little else matters.
>
> True, but self-confidence is no proof of talent or ability. All
self-confidence
> does is allow you to ignore the existance of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach,
Mahler,
> etc.
>


It is a paradox, to be sure. Without a clear, consistent faith in one's
self one may not even try to develop the abilities that they have. On the
contrary, a competent, talented musician would gain that confidence by
studying the works of the known masters over and over. Ignoring the master
composers wouldn't breed the kind of confidence I am talking about. So the
confidence could, in a sense, be earned. But of course you are probably
speaking of know-it-alls who don't know they know very little.

Jerry Gerber

[Ben Bradley]

In rec.audio.pro, (R Krizman) wrote:

><< Sorry, don't mean to
>be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan ....>>
>
>What would you say if you WERE meaning to be completely disrespectful?

Maybe compare him to Jar- Sigu--?

>-R

[Geoff Wood]

"Buster Mudd" > wrote in message >
> (Can you tell I don't like his work?)


It's easy. You don't like anybody's work.


geoff

[Geoff Wood]

"ScotFraser" > wrote in message
...
> << << Sorry, don't mean to
> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan
.....>> >>
>
> I'm sure that's why Pink Floyd hired him, no real talent.


Yeah, well that proves it. Isn't it the done thing these days to trash the
likes of Floyd to show just how talented and sophisticated and 'really'
musical you must be. A

n extension to this is to trash Floyd and associated musicians, but to
qualify it by saying that "Waters was slightly insightful, though though the
others were merely hangers on". '.

geoff

[R Krizman]

<< Kamen's Saxophone Concerto is one of the most God-awful pieces of
music I've ever heard. >><BR><BR>

Isn't everybody's?

Kamen was more talented than most of us. I personally loved how he could
integrate a symphony orchestra with a rock band. A mutual friend and repsected
feature film orchestrator who knew him well had nothing but high praise for his
abilities.

A little respect and humility here.

-R

[William Sommerwerck]

>>> I do know that after having been a composer full time for the past 25
>>> years it is still very difficult to sustain a career, get community/peer
>>> support and in general know for sure whether one's work is really fine
>>> or not. It comes down to believing in one's self. In the end little else
matters.

>> True, but self-confidence is no proof of talent or ability. All
self-confidence
>> does is allow you to ignore the existance of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach,
>> Mahler, etc.

> It is a paradox, to be sure. Without a clear, consistent faith in one's
> self one may not even try to develop the abilities that they have. On the
> contrary, a competent, talented musician would gain that confidence by
> studying the works of the known masters over and over. Ignoring the master
> composers wouldn't breed the kind of confidence I am talking about. So the
> confidence could, in a sense, be earned. But of course you are probably
> speaking of know-it-alls who don't know they know very little.

Well, I'm unkind, but not _that_ unkind. No, I'm not talking about know-it-alls.
Quite the opposite.

What I meant was that listening to Mozart or Bach -- or even Mahler -- can be
daunting. Without self-confidence, you're likely to give up and say "I'll never
be that good." And, as you point out, you'll never develop your skills.

There's a story about how, during the development of "Bambi," someone suggested
playing the storm sequence from the "Pastoral" as background music for the
stag-fight sequence. Everyone was wildly impressed, and Disney encouraged the
composer for "Bambi" to write something as good.

"But Walt -- that's Beethoven!"

"So?"

Disney might have been ingenuous, but he was also right. If you don't _try_, you
don't progress.

[ScotFraser]

<< Yeah, well that proves it. Isn't it the done thing these days to trash the
likes of Floyd to show just how talented and sophisticated and 'really'
musical you must be. >>

Yo Geoff, that was sarcasm. I wasn't dissing Pink Floyd. I was dissing the guy
who's branding the fellow they hired to orchestrate "The Wall" as talentless.

Here's the no sarcasm version:
Kamen did an incredible job orchestrating one of the best concept albums ever
created & that actually takes talent.


Scott Fraser

[Charles Thomas]

In article et>,
"Jerry Gerber" > wrote:

> I also know that there is useful, insightful criticism that show the critic
> has some knowledge of what the composer is attempting to accomplish, and
> then there is the run-of-the-mill-all-too-common useless criticism that most
> people utter most of the time. Everyone has an opinion, but not every
> opinion is of equal value. I have gotten useless praise and constructive
> criticism and I have gotten useless, mean and petty criticism and insightful
> praise, it can work either way.

Thanks for saving me the time to write this myself.

CT

[Rob Adelman]

ScotFraser wrote:


> Yo Geoff, that was sarcasm. I wasn't dissing Pink Floyd. I was dissing the guy
> who's branding the fellow they hired to orchestrate "The Wall" as talentless.
>
> Here's the no sarcasm version:
> Kamen did an incredible job orchestrating one of the best concept albums ever
> created & that actually takes talent.

Scot, I know what you meant. Besides, dissing Floyd is futile..

[Paul Gitlitz]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 02:08:35 GMT, "Jerry Gerber"
> wrote:

>a musical person understands with instinct, and those instincts show up as
>ability in varying amounts to play, sing, conduct, compose, and improvise or
>produce.

Agree'd. Personally I'm a multi instrumentalist and can impress non
musicians easily enough. I can even hold my own in some situations and
occasions, but I don't kid myself into thinking I'm anything
exceptional ( thank god I make a living playing). I do recognize
great talent when I hear and see it. I've been fortunate enough to be
in a position to work with and hire those who have it. I've even fired
myself to get in someone better though it cost the client more I knew
the result would be well worth it. I know other engineers/ producers
who went into this career after being players first, because they
loved music and listened intently but knew they'd never really excel
as a performer.
I think talent is a multifaceted thing. A good ear doesn't assure a
memory for melody or sense of time or fine motor coordination,
etc.......
I personally think I'm talented at composition and pretty good at
arranging/ orchestration, but I'm more likely to remember the harmony
than the melody to a tune I hear and I'll always rewrite the tune in
some way or other when I believe I've remembered it accurately.

The most talented folks in my estimation are the "artists" and I draw
a real distinction around what this means.
I like to think of artists as being ground breakers and doing
something new and unconventional. This is undoubtedly why they
disturbed people throughout history. The other folks out there are
with luck, and no shame, talented artisans. Copiers of the styles that
are popular enough to net them an income.

Well I guess I got carried away this was more than .02 worth. My bill
is in the mail.<G>
Paul

[WillStG]

> Paul Gitlitz

>I can even hold my own in some situations and
>occasions, but I don't kid myself into thinking I'm anything
>exceptional ( thank god I make a living playing). I do recognize
>great talent when I hear and see it. I've been fortunate enough to be
>in a position to work with and hire those who have it.

One night my brother and I were chatting with Dave Brubeck on a sidewalk
here in the city, and he told us the secret of his success was that he always
worked with people that were better than he is. But there's a lot more to his
kind of success than great musicianship alone, composition, taste and being an
accessable really nice guy have a lot to do with enduring popularity as an
artist. And I think Character development is unfortunately too often left out
of Arts education these days...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[H. Schaap]

"R Krizman" > schreef in bericht
...

> Kamen was more talented than most of us. I personally loved how he could
> integrate a symphony orchestra with a rock band.

As member of The NY Rock & Roll Ensemble on an album with Greek composer
Manos Hadjakakis(?) there was a great integration of symf. instruments,
rock and Greek
music with nice musical settings.

> A little respect and humility here.
Indeed!

Henk Schaap

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Buster Mudd wrote:

> jay wrote:

> > In article >
> > (Buster Mudd) writes:

> > > (Can you tell I don't like his work?)

> > I can tell there's a time and place and this isn't it.

> I'll grant you the Time thing. Place? If rec.audio.pro is the Place
> where we can fawn all over a musician, then it is just as appropriate
> a place where we can disparage that same musician.

1. Mr. Furious, the guy's dead. Get it?

2. Get a life.

3. Optionally, get a donkey and a lance and start looking for windmills.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

WillStG wrote:

> > Paul Gitlitz wrote:

> >I can even hold my own in some situations and
> >occasions, but I don't kid myself into thinking I'm anything
> >exceptional ( thank god I make a living playing). I do recognize
> >great talent when I hear and see it. I've been fortunate enough to be
> >in a position to work with and hire those who have it.

> One night my brother and I were chatting with Dave Brubeck on a sidewalk
> here in the city, and he told us the secret of his success was that he always
> worked with people that were better than he is.

""The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

Albert Einstein

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

ScotFraser wrote:

> << << Sorry, don't mean to
> be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan ....>> >>

> I'm sure that's why Pink Floyd hired him, no real talent.

Are you sure about that? I tought it was because he was cheap and they
didn't have any money.

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Ben Bradley wrote:

> (R Krizman) wrote:

> ><< Sorry, don't mean to
> >be completely disrespectful, but that guy was a talentless charlatan ....>>

> >What would you say if you WERE meaning to be completely disrespectful?

> Maybe compare him to Jar- Sigu--?

But not before you find the body, let alone the work.

--
ha

[Paul Gitlitz]

On 20 Nov 2003 17:35:57 GMT, (WillStG) wrote:

> One night my brother and I were chatting with Dave Brubeck on a sidewalk
>here in the city, and he told us the secret of his success was that he always
>worked with people that were better than he is. But there's a lot more to his
>kind of success than great musicianship alone, composition, taste and being an
>accessable really nice guy have a lot to do with enduring popularity as an
>artist. And I think Character development is unfortunately too often left out
>of Arts education these days...

Thanks for the anecdote and tip. I strive to capitalize on taste,
heart and personal character. As I've been employed steadily for
18years doing music I'd consider myself successful.

[David Newton]

With all due respect, on a serious musical level, wasn't he a joke??

Dave Newton


http://www.rollercoasterrecording.com

[WillStG]

(David Newton)
>With all due respect, on a serious musical level, wasn't he a joke??
>
>Dave Newton

If he wasn't the *most* gifted compostionally certainly a lot of people
liked working with him, and that has a lot to do with being successful in life
as well as in music.

Leonard Bernstein liked his "New York Rock And Roll Ensemble" enough to
pick as part of his "Young People's Music Series" with the New York
Philharmonic. A couple of his former bandmates from that group have posted in
this thread. Personally I liked his work on "Robin Hood, Prince Of Thieves"
with Bryan Adams, we should all have been lucky enough to be band leader for
David Bowie, score movies for guys from Monty Python, Lethal Weapon, with Eric
Clapton, and do orchestral arrangements for Pink Floyd and Aerosmith. And I
think most musicians judge a conductor on skills other than his compositional
ones.

RIP.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[WillStG]

> Paul Gitlitz

> I strive to capitalize on taste,
>heart and personal character. As I've been employed steadily for
>18years doing music I'd consider myself successful.

I wasn't really trying to give you advice Paul <g>. But as you mentioned
being lucky enough to work with better musicians than yourself, I thought it
gemane that Dave Brubeck says he built his whole career on that! Not that I'd
believe for a moment that's all there was to it...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Steve]

(David Newton) wrote in message >...
> With all due respect, on a serious musical level, wasn't he a joke??
>
> Dave Newton
>
>
> http://www.rollercoasterrecording.com

Well his "jokes" helped Brian Adams, Annie Lennox, Sting, Pink Floyd,
Beatles, David Bowie to name a few, laugh all the way to the bank.

Steve Lane

[Guitarboy]

In article >,
David Newton > wrote:

> With all due respect, on a serious musical level, wasn't he a joke??
>
> Dave Newton
>
>
> http://www.rollercoasterrecording.com
>
ok lets see here's the score according to allmusic.com

mighty lemon drops Billboard top 200 #195 with an anchor
michael kamen:
Robin Hood Prince of Theives Billboard top 200 #5 and a Grammy
plus 3 other Grammys. How many grammys do you have and does that make
you a joke? he went to julliard. how many chords can you play on your
guitar? 3?

[R Krizman]

<< mighty lemon drops Billboard top 200 #195 with an anchor >>


Who?

-R

[Paul Gitlitz]

On 21 Nov 2003 12:16:59 GMT, (WillStG) wrote:

> I wasn't really trying to give you advice Paul <g>. But as you mentioned
>being lucky enough to work with better musicians than yourself, I thought it
>gemane that Dave Brubeck says he built his whole career on that! Not that I'd
>believe for a moment that's all there was to it...

Sorry if I appeared to be defending myself. It wasn't intended at all.
If it was advice I'd welcome it. I was just musing over the fact that
my fiancee mentioned the other day when I was being self deprecating
as usual, that she thought I played with a great deal of heart. I
tried to get her to elaborate, since it was all about me<HA, HA>. But
she couldn't explain any further than to say the emotions came through
and it couldn't be compared to a more sterile but technical
proficiency.

I'm very happy to play with folks who are better and have always found
myself happily learning if I wasn't paranoid or competitive, but
strangely enough I also learn when I play with those who need a bit of
instruction. I find if I have to slow down and explain something I
teach it to myself as well. There are sloppy spots in my bowing for
instance that I can iron out when I attempt to show some one else what
I'm attempting to do.

Anyway perhaps this is more info than you wanted. It certainly is off
the topic of M.Kamen's death. I for one, see no reason to speak ill of
the dead. One of my chief goals in life is to accrue enough love and
respect from my peers that they have nice things to say when I'm gone
and continue to play my music!

[Geoff Wood]

"David Newton" > wrote in message news:14779-

> With all due respect, on a serious musical level, wasn't he a joke??


Probably less of a joke than you. But I don't know much of you .

geoff