a specific recording question

[James Platts-Mills]

hey,

i hope someone can help me with this around here... thanks in advance.

i have two main recording interests. one involves me and my acoustic
guitar, which has a great (seriously!) pickup, so i can plug it
straight on in to my interface. so for this use, i need a vocal mic
that's still okay for recording whatever random other thing i can
think of to record (percussive stuff, for example), and that is good
for using in my apartment in a small room, that is definitely not
isolated from other sound. To me, it sounds like the sm57 is *perfect*
for this application. It's supercardiod, so it shouldn't pick up too
much ambient sound around me, and it's great for micing anything.

my OTHER main interest is recording myself and a few of my friends
picking bluegrass, taking turns on vocals and breaks. ideally, this is
ALL one-shot live recording with no need for punch-ins at all, so this
can be a 1 or 2 mic setup. my guess, however, is that the sm57 isn't
that great for this. we can't really just all sit around it, hope to
sing in to it, etc. i know that this is a *classic* bluegrass
recording strategy, the musicians moving closer and further from the
mic for their solos, etc. but i don't know if i can hope at all for
the sm57 to work for this.

just looking for a good opinion about whether i can expect one
do-everything mic for these two interests, or whether that's
unrealistic, and if so, what would be good for the second interest
(one 'ambient' mic that can pick everything up, giving vocals and
breaks their due).

thanks,
james

[Robert Blank]

why not a multipattern mic?

What is your budget?

James Platts-Mills > wrote:

> hey,
>
> i hope someone can help me with this around here... thanks in advance.
>
> i have two main recording interests. one involves me and my acoustic
> guitar, which has a great (seriously!) pickup, so i can plug it
> straight on in to my interface. so for this use, i need a vocal mic
> that's still okay for recording whatever random other thing i can
> think of to record (percussive stuff, for example), and that is good
> for using in my apartment in a small room, that is definitely not
> isolated from other sound. To me, it sounds like the sm57 is *perfect*
> for this application. It's supercardiod, so it shouldn't pick up too
> much ambient sound around me, and it's great for micing anything.
>
> my OTHER main interest is recording myself and a few of my friends
> picking bluegrass, taking turns on vocals and breaks. ideally, this is
> ALL one-shot live recording with no need for punch-ins at all, so this
> can be a 1 or 2 mic setup. my guess, however, is that the sm57 isn't
> that great for this. we can't really just all sit around it, hope to
> sing in to it, etc. i know that this is a *classic* bluegrass
> recording strategy, the musicians moving closer and further from the
> mic for their solos, etc. but i don't know if i can hope at all for
> the sm57 to work for this.
>
> just looking for a good opinion about whether i can expect one
> do-everything mic for these two interests, or whether that's
> unrealistic, and if so, what would be good for the second interest
> (one 'ambient' mic that can pick everything up, giving vocals and
> breaks their due).
>
> thanks,
> james

[Dan]

For whatever reason, many bluegraas types use the Audio Technica
AT4033. Its kind of the bluegrass single mic method standard. From
what I hear.

d


(James Platts-Mills) wrote in message >...
> hey,
>
> i hope someone can help me with this around here... thanks in advance.
>
> i have two main recording interests. one involves me and my acoustic
> guitar, which has a great (seriously!) pickup, so i can plug it
> straight on in to my interface. so for this use, i need a vocal mic
> that's still okay for recording whatever random other thing i can
> think of to record (percussive stuff, for example), and that is good
> for using in my apartment in a small room, that is definitely not
> isolated from other sound. To me, it sounds like the sm57 is *perfect*
> for this application. It's supercardiod, so it shouldn't pick up too
> much ambient sound around me, and it's great for micing anything.
>
> my OTHER main interest is recording myself and a few of my friends
> picking bluegrass, taking turns on vocals and breaks. ideally, this is
> ALL one-shot live recording with no need for punch-ins at all, so this
> can be a 1 or 2 mic setup. my guess, however, is that the sm57 isn't
> that great for this. we can't really just all sit around it, hope to
> sing in to it, etc. i know that this is a *classic* bluegrass
> recording strategy, the musicians moving closer and further from the
> mic for their solos, etc. but i don't know if i can hope at all for
> the sm57 to work for this.
>
> just looking for a good opinion about whether i can expect one
> do-everything mic for these two interests, or whether that's
> unrealistic, and if so, what would be good for the second interest
> (one 'ambient' mic that can pick everything up, giving vocals and
> breaks their due).
>
> thanks,
> james

[Dave Martin]

"Dan" > wrote in message
om...
> For whatever reason, many bluegraas types use the Audio Technica
> AT4033. Its kind of the bluegrass single mic method standard. From
> what I hear.
>
You can't always believe what you hear. I've seen AT 4040's, 4050's, 4060's,
Shure KSM 44's (I think they used them on the Down From The Mountain Tour
last year), KSM 32's (which I don't like as well), Neumann U47's and U 87's
(even live) as well as RCA 44's and 77's and even the new AEA R84. (Ralph
Stanley did a session a couple of weeks ago with a pair of R84's and nothing
else).

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

1. All acoustic guitar pickups sound like crap.
2. The Shure SM57 is a cardioid, not supercardioid.
3. You want an omni or bidirectional mike for the bluegrass.

A single microphone solution would be some kind of figure-8 microphone.
You could use it for your vocals and place your acoustic guitar in the
null so you don't pick up too much of it, thereby avoiding comb
filtering from phase discrepancy with the pick-up. You could also set
up the microphone in the middle of your bluegrass group and record
everybody. Since there are nulls at the sides, you wouldn't put
anybody there (unless you wanted them to sound "distant").

Your practical choices for a bidirectional microphone would be a
multipattern large-diaphragm condenser or a ribbon mike. Ribbons are
mostly pretty expensive (compared to your suggested SM57), though you
could look for a Beyer M130 or maybe an RCA 74B on the used market.
Multipattern condenser mikes are available for anywhere between $200
and $20,000.

Another option would be to buy two microphones: The SM57 for your
voice, and an omnidirectional microphone for the bluegrass. Once again
there are a wide range of options, including the $35 Behringer
measurement mike, which I have never used but it's reputed have flat
frequency response and a rather high noise floor. Or there's the EV
635a which is a dynamic omni that rates up there with the SM57, RE20,
and MD421 as a microphone that will be useful to just about anybody.
They sell new for about $100 and can be found used for substantially
less if you get lucky and find one in a shop around town.

ulysses

In article >, James
Platts-Mills > wrote:

> hey,
>
> i hope someone can help me with this around here... thanks in advance.
>
> i have two main recording interests. one involves me and my acoustic
> guitar, which has a great (seriously!) pickup, so i can plug it
> straight on in to my interface. so for this use, i need a vocal mic
> that's still okay for recording whatever random other thing i can
> think of to record (percussive stuff, for example), and that is good
> for using in my apartment in a small room, that is definitely not
> isolated from other sound. To me, it sounds like the sm57 is *perfect*
> for this application. It's supercardiod, so it shouldn't pick up too
> much ambient sound around me, and it's great for micing anything.
>
> my OTHER main interest is recording myself and a few of my friends
> picking bluegrass, taking turns on vocals and breaks. ideally, this is
> ALL one-shot live recording with no need for punch-ins at all, so this
> can be a 1 or 2 mic setup. my guess, however, is that the sm57 isn't
> that great for this. we can't really just all sit around it, hope to
> sing in to it, etc. i know that this is a *classic* bluegrass
> recording strategy, the musicians moving closer and further from the
> mic for their solos, etc. but i don't know if i can hope at all for
> the sm57 to work for this.
>
> just looking for a good opinion about whether i can expect one
> do-everything mic for these two interests, or whether that's
> unrealistic, and if so, what would be good for the second interest
> (one 'ambient' mic that can pick everything up, giving vocals and
> breaks their due).
>
> thanks,
> james

[phpixie]

(James Platts-Mills) wrote in message >...
> hey,
>
> i hope someone can help me with this around here... thanks in advance.
>
> i have two main recording interests. one involves me and my acoustic
> guitar, which has a great (seriously!) pickup, so i can plug it
> straight on in to my interface. so for this use, i need a vocal mic
> that's still okay for recording whatever random other thing i can
> think of to record (percussive stuff, for example), and that is good
> for using in my apartment in a small room, that is definitely not
> isolated from other sound. To me, it sounds like the sm57 is *perfect*
> for this application. It's supercardiod, so it shouldn't pick up too
> much ambient sound around me, and it's great for micing anything.
>
> my OTHER main interest is recording myself and a few of my friends
> picking bluegrass, taking turns on vocals and breaks. ideally, this is
> ALL one-shot live recording with no need for punch-ins at all, so this
> can be a 1 or 2 mic setup. my guess, however, is that the sm57 isn't
> that great for this. we can't really just all sit around it, hope to
> sing in to it, etc. i know that this is a *classic* bluegrass
> recording strategy, the musicians moving closer and further from the
> mic for their solos, etc. but i don't know if i can hope at all for
> the sm57 to work for this.
>
> just looking for a good opinion about whether i can expect one
> do-everything mic for these two interests, or whether that's
> unrealistic, and if so, what would be good for the second interest
> (one 'ambient' mic that can pick everything up, giving vocals and
> breaks their due).
>
> thanks,
> james

The SM57 isn't really used too much for studio vocal work. Actually,
I don't know anyone that uses it for studio vocals at all. They do
get used a lot in the studio for things like guitar amps & drums, but
not for vocals. The 57 gets used for live vocal work quite a bit, but
the requirements for live performance aren't the same as for studio
work. I think you'd probably do better with a large diaphram
condensor (be sure to get a pop filter for vocals). One with multiple
pickup patterns might be better for multiple use, but most cardiods
are made to pick up well at up to 45 degrees off axis ( a total spread
of 90 degrees), which means if you can get everyone in your ensemble
w/in a 90 degree spread from the front of the mice, then everything
should work pretty well. I'm no expert by a long shot, but that's
what I would try.

Good luck, happy tracking!

[Dan]

>
> The SM57 isn't really used too much for studio vocal work. Actually,
> I don't know anyone that uses it for studio vocals at all.

Daniel Lanois does

d