Re: What Does "XLR" Mean? -- Official Answer

[Dave Turner]

Al Gershen wrote:

> I've searched over the Internet and I haven't been able to find a
> defination for what the letters "XLR" mean.
>
> Can you help me?

Dear Group,

This topic doesn't seem to have arisen for quite a while, but I was asked
this recently and did a bit of digging on usenet. Not trusting what I heard
(there were a whole load of different answers, all claiming to be
authoritative), I asked Cannon/ITT what the acronym XLR stands for and they
replied with the following:

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Subject: RE: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
From: Technical Query >
To: '"
>

Hello David

As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
original meaning, however we have no info here on it.

regards

John Embleton
Technical Support
ITT Industries,
Cannon Connector Division,
Basingstoke.
UK

************************************
If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for
the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this
message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such
a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should
destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
Information contained in this message that does not relate to the
business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT.
************************************
-----------------------------------------


So that's the official answer. Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which gives
the origin of the 'L' and the 'R' if not the 'X' - after reading all the
conflicting stories on the subject it's hard to be sure on anything but I
thought I'd add that link cos it doesn't seem to have been mentioned in one
of these threads and does seem plausible.

Hopefully this post will end up being searched when anyone Googles on this
subject and will be useful - this information isn't currently readily
available without some minor amount of digging as I found out.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Remove the opinion on spam to reply.

[William Sommerwerck]

My guess -- and it's only a guess -- is that the LR part stands for "locking
receptacle."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
> original meaning, however we have no info here on it.

That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[George Gleason]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069087689k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had
an
> > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
>
> That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
> series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
> insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
> and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
> sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[George Gleason]

"Dave Turner" > wrote in message
...
> Al Gershen wrote:
>
> > I've searched over the Internet and I haven't been able to find a
> > defination for what the letters "XLR" mean.
> >
> > Can you help me?
>
My GUESS is that it was part of a mil spec part number that became common
George


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[Ted Spencer]

Maybe I just dreamed this up but I thought X meant Ground, L meant Left and R
meant Right, corresponding to the three pins in an XLR connector. Works for me,
anyway.


Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

[aJax]

Ted Spencer wrote:

> Maybe I just dreamed this up but I thought X meant Ground, L meant Left and R
> meant Right, corresponding to the three pins in an XLR connector. Works for me,
> anyway.
>
>
> Ted Spencer, NYC
>
> "No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
> "Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

You know, that's so crazy it just might work :-)

[Terry King]

I was working in Broadcast when "XLR's" came out. I don't recall any
reason for the designation.

As I recall, they first appeared on non-broadcast mikes from
Electrovoice and Shure as a better smaller answer than the abominable
screw-on cheapos previously used. The EV654 was the first mike I had
with XLR built into the case. Still have it. It's not good for much!

The 'standard' in the 40's was (As I recall) The "M" round 3-pin
connector about 1 inch in diameter, as seen on the old RCA OP4, OP6 and
OP7 Remote Amplifiers. The Gates elcheapos had the screw-on type. (What
the heck were those called??) I have and old OP-4 and a Gates remote
amplifier.

In the 50's the 'new standard' was the "D" shaped Cannon "UA" with gold
plated pins. It has a real positive locking mechanism. The first piece
of gear I ever bought with them new-fangled Transistors in it was a
Collins remote amplifier. It came with "UA" type connectoirs, and by
1960 we had lots of cables with male UA on one end, that plugged into
the Collins, and out in-the-studio-wall mike connectors. The other end
was female XLR for the 'cheap mikes'. The 'Good Mikes' like RCA 77DX's,
had their own cable connected inside the mike case, like It Should Be.
RCA didn't change that when the BK-5 and BK-5B mikes came out in the
60's. So you had to put your own connector on the cable end of a new
RCA mike.

Jeez, who the heck wanted to know about this?? Sorry...

[Denny F]

X-L-R
1-2-3
Ground-lead-return

I may have dreamed this.

--------------------------------------------------
Denny Fohringer
Itinerant guitarist
--------------------------------------------------
Lessons and music:
http://surf.to/dennyf
Bands:
http://bluepearlband.com http://doubletakeband.com
--------------------------------------------------
"Ted Spencer" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe I just dreamed this up but I thought X meant Ground, L meant Left
and R
> meant Right, corresponding to the three pins in an XLR connector. Works
for me,
> anyway.
>
>
> Ted Spencer, NYC
>
> "No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
> "Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown

[Tommi]

XLR stands for eXtra Large Receptable. Hasn't anyone heard this before?

[Steve Holt]

"Tommi" > boldly wrote in message
...

> XLR stands for eXtra Large Receptable. Hasn't anyone heard this before?
>



I have. But rarely on the first date.

Steve Holt
INNER MUSIC
Music Creation & Production
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt
http://www.inner-music.com

[Tommi]

"Tommi" > wrote in message
...
> XLR stands for eXtra Large Receptable. Hasn't anyone heard this before?
>

That'd be receptacle.

[S O'Neill]

Denny F wrote:
> X-L-R
> 1-2-3
> Ground-lead-return
>
> I may have dreamed this.

What does it mean on an XLR-5?

[Thomas Bishop]

"S O'Neill" > wrote in message
> What does it mean on an XLR-5?

I don't know the history, but maybe the XLR-5 came out after the term XLR
gained popularity.

[J. Joyce]

If you search rec.audio.pro (always a good idea)
you will find this post by Jeremy Shaw:

Cannon has a range of connectors in the XL series, IE: XLA, XLB, and
of course, XLR.
You will see that in most catalogs, connectors manufactured by other
companies are called "XLR-type" connectors, so, just like Kleenex has
become a generic (although still trademarked) term for facial tissue,
XLR has become the the term in general usage for this type of
connector.
Now that all that has been said, I have also heard the explanation
that "X" refers to the ground, and "L" and "R" refer to left and right
(or line and return). While this makes a neat explanation for the
XLR-3, it does not explain the XLR-4,5,6, or 7.

In reality XLR is just a part number assigned by ITT/Cannon

X for the series the Military used (or just another letter in their
commercial series of connectors after U and UA)
L for locking
R for rubber

The XLR connector was designed for Boeing in the 60's.
by Cannon (and there was an XL connector before, with a rigid
insulator)
(also I had not heard that it was for Boeing, but could believe that
.... it was commonly used as an inexpensive instrumentation connector
when people wanted something that would lock
but not have a threaded ring)

Then Switchcraft and others used it for audio.
Switchcraft added a grounding lug to connect to the shell, and went
back
to a rigid insulator, which was a bad idea -- the rubber female side
was
tensioned so there was a good strong wiping action to get rid of the
contact oxidation at every mating cycle

In the 80'sit became commonly available with gold
plated pins instead of the silver plating on the old ones that
commonly
became silver oxide and other less conductive silver salts... so that
the scraping/wiping action made by the original XLR wasn't needed...

Note, that ITT/Cannon is different than Canon the copier company.

It is also interesting to note that ITT/Cannon no longer manufactures
the Cannon XLR connectors (or so I have heard). I believe they sold
the patent to Switchcraft.

Jeremy Shaw.

[George Gleason]

"Denny F" > wrote in message
...
> X-L-R
> 1-2-3
> Ground-lead-return

how does that work for pin 3 hot?
George


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[Neil Henderson]

>My guess -- and it's only a guess -- is that the LR part stands for "locking
>receptacle."

Xcellent.

NeilH

[Geoff Wood]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069087689k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had
an
> > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
>
> That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
> series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
> insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
> and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
> sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).
>

Xtremely Large Round ?!!

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

"S O'Neill" > wrote in message
...
> Denny F wrote:
> > X-L-R
> > 1-2-3
> > Ground-lead-return
> >
> > I may have dreamed this.
>
> What does it mean on an XLR-5?

But 5 isn't extremely large ...

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

"J. Joyce" > wrote in message
ws.com...
> If you search rec.audio.pro (always a good idea)
> you will find this post by Jeremy Shaw:
>
> Cannon has a range of connectors in the XL series, IE: XLA, XLB, and
> of course, XLR.

Whatever happened to C,D,E,F,.....

geoff

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Ted Spencer" > wrote in message
...
> Maybe I just dreamed this up but I thought X meant Ground, L meant Left
and R
> meant Right, corresponding to the three pins in an XLR connector. Works
for me,
> anyway.
>

That's what I've always heard too.

[transducr]

"Denny F" > wrote in message >...
> X-L-R
> 1-2-3
> Ground-lead-return
>
> I may have dreamed this.

i was always told it was: "eXchanging Line Receptacle" denoting the
noise cancelling feature of the balanced connection.

[Johnston West]

Dave Turner > wrote in message >...
> Al Gershen wrote:
>
> > I've searched over the Internet and I haven't been able to find a
> > defination for what the letters "XLR" mean.
> >
> > Can you help me?


X = A small circular plug in the Cannon connector series that was not
originally designed for microphones, but was later adapted, due to
it's small size.

Cannon originally made a large circular connector, the "P" (pin)
series. Microphones used a 3 pin design of that. Speakers used (and
still do) a 4 or 8 pin version of that series......... They wanted a
smaller connector so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........ In
their desire for an even smaller mic connector they went with a small
circular connector that cannon had around called the "X" series.

L = Latch.... The X series had no latch, so they added one

R = Rubber .... The XL series connector became popluar and cannon
later embedded the contacts in rubber to insulate them.

XLR

J_West


Read more here from Ray Rayburn, a very knowlegable audio technician
....... http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

[P Stamler]

If you read Richard Rhodes' book on the making of the atomic bomb, you'll see a
photo of the first one being readied for testing at Alamogordo, NM. It's an
implosion-type bomb, with explosive lenses spaced around the sphere of
plutonium, and electrical connectors running to the detonators for those
explosive lenses. Looking at the picture, I coulda sworn those were XLR
connectors at the end of those cables, but if the XLR didn't exist in 1945,
obviously I'm wrong. So what were they?

Peace,
Paul

[intifada]

"S O'Neill" wrote
>
> What does it mean on an XLR-5?

Well, I managed to track down Robert the Robot to ask him, but he insists
that Fireball XL-5 had nothing to do with recording equipment, but maybe
Gerry Anderson was onto something way back then....

http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/trekker/fireball.html

JC

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Tommi > wrote:

> "Tommi" > wrote in message
> ...
> > XLR stands for eXtra Large Receptable. Hasn't anyone heard this before?
> >
>
> That'd be receptacle.


No, you had it right the first time.

ulysses

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

George Gleason > wrote:

> "Denny F" > wrote in message
> ...
> > X-L-R
> > 1-2-3
> > Ground-lead-return
>
> how does that work for pin 3 hot?
> George


It doesn't. Which is how we know that pin 3 hot is WRONG.

ulysses

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Dave Turner > wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
>
> Subject: RE: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
> Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
> From: Technical Query >
> To: '"
> >
>
> Hello David
>
> As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
> original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
>
> regards
>
> John Embleton
> Technical Support
> ITT Industries,
> Cannon Connector Division,
> Basingstoke.
> UK

> So that's the official answer.

Official? It's not even an answer. He might just as well have said,
"Who cares?" or "None of your damn business."

> Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
> which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which gives

Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
contradict it. Not that it really matters.

What does "NC3FD" stand for?

ulysses

[Terry King]

In article >,
says...
.......... They wanted a
> smaller connector so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
> connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........
The 654 and 666 had XLR's; I have a 654 in my hand.

I have never seen a microphone with a built-in-the-case UA connector.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"

[Richard Crowley]

"J. Joyce" wrote ...
....
> It is also interesting to note that ITT/Cannon no longer manufactures
> the Cannon XLR connectors (or so I have heard).

Perhaps in the USA. But I still see what appear to be new
"ITT/Cannon Japan" connectors on audio and video equipment
from Sony (for example). The classic desgn with the rubber
insulator in the female variety.

> I believe they sold the patent to Switchcraft.

If they did (which I kinda' doubt), it wasn't exclusive.
I recall a significant period when Cannon (and then ITT/
Cannon) were still selling XLRs even after Switchcraft
started selling their equivalent version.

OTOH, I concur that "XLR" was just an arbitrary part
number from Cannon. Any nmemonic or acronynomic
associations were invented after the fact by users out
in the field and had nothing to do with the original
name/numbers.

[Richard Crowley]

"Terry King" wrote ...
> I have never seen a microphone with a built-in-the-case UA connector.

There WERE microphones (EV for certain, and likely others?)
with the larger prececessor of the XLR connector. I used to have
access to a pair, but it has been many years since I saw them last
and I don't recall the model number. Had to make a pair of adapter
cables to use them with "standard" XLR cables.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> > X-L-R
> > 1-2-3
> > Ground-lead-return
>
> how does that work for pin 3 hot?

Simple. Just count 1-3-2




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> It doesn't. Which is how we know that pin 3 hot is WRONG.

That's Un-American!


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> In article >
> writes:
>
> > It doesn't. Which is how we know that pin 3 hot is WRONG.
>
> That's Un-American!


Is it? I thought Pin 3 Hot was un-American. I thought I was
brit-bashing. Oh well.

ulysses

[George Gleason]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069161080k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > > X-L-R
> > > 1-2-3
> > > Ground-lead-return
> >
> > how does that work for pin 3 hot?
>
> Simple. Just count 1-3-2
>
>
live sound guys can't say 3 cause on 3 we have to lift something(heavy)
george


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[Geoff Wood]

"Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
m...
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
> > In article >
> > writes:
> >
> > > It doesn't. Which is how we know that pin 3 hot is WRONG.
> >
> > That's Un-American!
>
>
> Is it? I thought Pin 3 Hot was un-American. I thought I was
> brit-bashing. Oh well.

Brits / Yanks - same thing these days ....


geoff

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Is it? I thought Pin 3 Hot was un-American. I thought I was
> brit-bashing. Oh well.

Pin 3 hot was the American standard, or rather, the Ampex standard.
They were the major pro audio manufacturer that built thing with XLR
connectors and that's how they wired them. The famous MX-10 mixer had
Pin 2 of the XLR output connectors grounded so you'd get voltage
between pins 3 and 2.

It was the Europeans who were building things with Pin 2 hot, and in
the '70's, there were more people interested in buying Neve consoles
and Studer recorders in the US than people interested in buying Ampex
recorders and API consoles in Europe, so the standard moved to Pin 2
hot.

Of course the conventin for microphones has always been Pin 2 positive
with respect to Pin 3 for pressure toward the diaphragm, but not
everyone followed that convention, particularly companies like Beyer
and, for a while, AKG, who made the same mics with both XLR and Tuchel
connectors.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[George Gleason]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069178837k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > Is it? I thought Pin 3 Hot was un-American. I thought I was
> > brit-bashing. Oh well.
>
> Pin 3 hot was the American standard, or rather, the Ampex standard.
> They were the major pro audio manufacturer that built thing with XLR
> connectors and that's how they wired them. The famous MX-10 mixer had
> Pin 2 of the XLR output connectors grounded so you'd get voltage
> between pins 3 and 2.
>
> It was the Europeans who were building things with Pin 2 hot, and in
> the '70's, there were more people interested in buying Neve consoles
> and Studer recorders in the US than people interested in buying Ampex
> recorders and API consoles in Europe, so the standard moved to Pin 2
> hot.
>
> Of course the conventin for microphones has always been Pin 2 positive
> with respect to Pin 3 for pressure toward the diaphragm, but not
> everyone followed that convention, particularly companies like Beyer
> and, for a while, AKG, who made the same mics with both XLR and Tuchel
> connectors.
>
How would we ever be able to get this right when JBL was making RED the
negitive on thier speakers!!!
George


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[Terry King]

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> says...
> ......... They wanted a
> > smaller connector so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
> > connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........
> The 654 and 666 had XLR's; I have a 654 in my hand.
>
> I have never seen a microphone with a built-in-the-case UA connector.
> ************************************************** ********************
Update on that! Ray Rayburn has showed me four!! so, I am corrected on
that, although we agree the 654 has XLR. Take a look at:
http://www.k-bay106.com/e-v_667.jpg
for a EV 667 AND the EV preamp, all with UA connectors...

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> How would we ever be able to get this right when JBL was making RED the
> negitive on thier speakers!!!

My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.

Since there isn't a standard for speaker connections, I don't know
that there's ever been a convention for polarity vs. color or even
number if the terminals are numbered. Seems to me that I've heard that
the terminal that has the positive voltage on it when the speaker cone
moves out (toward the listener) is defined as positive. If you put a
microphone in front of a speaker with the cone moving in that
direction, it should make pin 2 go positive with respect to pin 3.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[George Gleason]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069198339k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > How would we ever be able to get this right when JBL was making RED the
> > negitive on thier speakers!!!
>
> My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
> and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
> that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
> other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
> what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.
>
> Since there isn't a standard for speaker connections, I don't know
> that there's ever been a convention for polarity vs. color or even
> number if the terminals are numbered. Seems to me that I've heard that
> the terminal that has the positive voltage on it when the speaker cone
> moves out (toward the listener) is defined as positive. If you put a
> microphone in front of a speaker with the cone moving in that
> direction, it should make pin 2 go positive with respect to pin 3.
>
all very true
though some things seem standard if one in not experianced enough to test or
know the exceptions
George


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 11/14/2003

[Johnston West]

Terry King > wrote in message

> so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
> > > connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........
> > The 654 and 666 had XLR's; I have a 654 in my hand.
> >
> > I have never seen a microphone with a built-in-the-case UA connector.
> > ************************************************** ********************
> Update on that! Ray Rayburn has showed me four!! so, I am corrected on
> that, although we agree the 654 has XLR. Take a look at:
> http://www.k-bay106.com/e-v_667.jpg
> for a EV 667 AND the EV preamp, all with UA connectors...

Yup, that's a UA series "D" connector, just as sure as it's shape.

J_West

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
> and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
> that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
> other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
> what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.

The wire colors of traditional thermocouples indicate which
type they are (J, K, etc.) and coincidentally also the "polarity".
They have never followed the electronics tradition of black=
negative, red=positive.

[William Sommerwerck]

> Since there isn't a standard for speaker connections, I don't know
> that there's ever been a convention for polarity vs. color or even
> number if the terminals are numbered. Seems to me that I've heard
> that the terminal that has the positive voltage on it when the speaker
> cone moves out (toward the listener) is defined as positive. If you
> put a microphone in front of a speaker with the cone moving in that
> direction, it should make pin 2 go positive with respect to pin 3.

This is the consensus -- except when the drivers don't have the same polarity.
In a three-way system, you'd go with the midrange. In a two-way system, it would
probably be the woofer, as the woofer (in such systems) generally caries most
(or all) of the midrange.

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> In article >
> writes:
>
> > Is it? I thought Pin 3 Hot was un-American. I thought I was
> > brit-bashing. Oh well.
>
> Pin 3 hot was the American standard.
> The famous MX-10 mixer had Pin 2 of the XLR output connectors
> grounded so you'd get voltage between pins 3 and 2.
> It was the Europeans who were building things with Pin 2 hot.
> The convention for microphones has always been Pin 2 positive
> with respect to Pin 3 for pressure toward the diaphragm, but not
> everyone followed that convention, particularly companies like Beyer
> and AKG.

That's pretty ****ed up right there. So, both Americans and Europeans
were inconsistent between microphones and everything else? This means
that if any European or US company built stand-alone mic preamps back
then, "correct" wiring would dictate an inversion between input and
output?

ulysses

[Dave Johnson]

Terry King wrote:


>
> Jeez, who the heck wanted to know about this?? Sorry...

(Raised hand)

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> That's pretty ****ed up right there. So, both Americans and Europeans
> were inconsistent between microphones and everything else?

Yes, because back in those days, unless you had two mics in a stereo
pair, you couldn't hear a difference. There just wasn't that much
resolution, reproduction accuracy, and there weren't that many
microphones or channels. It was as likely that someone had a miswired
cable as an oddball microphone, so you just listened to what you set
up and if something sounded like it was out of polarity, you changed
it.

No big deal then, no big deal now other than that people don't expect
that there might be problems that they need to fix before moving on.
Wiring polarity is something that can, and should be consistent. The
industry finally figured that out and now, for the most part, it is.

Generally today when we get a question about polarity, it's related to
mixing balanced and unbalanced connections, or about interfacing old
equipment with new.

> This means
> that if any European or US company built stand-alone mic preamps back
> then, "correct" wiring would dictate an inversion between input and
> output?

I'm not sure if any company "back then" built an outboard mic preamp,
but things like Ampex 350 recorders, widely used in broadcast and
recording studios, had microphone inputs (usually one, since most were
mono). The same polarity that went in came out. Now there was the
issue of polarity on tape, but that's something else. This is
something better drawn out on paper if you want to figure out what
might have been what.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[ChuxGarage]

>So, both Americans and Europeans
>were inconsistent between microphones and everything else


Back in the 1970's I attended the AES Convention where the membership voted to
adopt the standard of "Pin 2 Hot." This was done largely at the request of the
groups UK and European members.

Up until this point, most American gear was wired Pin 3 hot. This change of
convention to the new standard was very inconvenient, but viewed by most in the
US as something we simply had to do. Or so we thought. Shortly after the new
convention was adopted, many UK manufacturers, Soundcraft and Midas among
others, started delivering consoles with "Pin 3 Hot." I've owned several of
them. What possessed them to switch is still a mystery to me. Some were even
wired with balanced inputs, pin two positive, but outputs unbalanced pin 3 hot.
The question of whether pin two was connected to ground or just left floating,
connected to nothing at all was also un-standardized. Some were, some weren't.
You see, in those days it was fairly common to have balanced inputs and
unbalanced outputs via an XLR. This made for many years of confusion, and
the need to carry around lots of polarity reversing adapters am "magic" adapter
cables to make things work.

You younger guys take a lot for granted these days when you buy a workable
mixer for well under $500, and everything is more or less like it should be.
It wasn't always the case.

Chuck

[rich rookie]

"Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
m...
> Dave Turner > wrote:
>
> > ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> >
> > Subject: RE: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
> > Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
> > From: Technical Query >
> > To: '"
> > >
> >
> > Hello David
> >
> > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had
an
> > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > John Embleton
> > Technical Support
> > ITT Industries,
> > Cannon Connector Division,
> > Basingstoke.
> > UK
>
> > So that's the official answer.
>
> Official? It's not even an answer. He might just as well have said,
> "Who cares?" or "None of your damn business."
>
> > Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
> > which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which
gives
>
> Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
> internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
> story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
> This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
> know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
> Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
> this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
> contradict it. Not that it really matters.
>
> What does "NC3FD" stand for?
>
> ulysses

I just happend across this, this morning. From
http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

Richard


At one time Cannon (now ITT Cannon) made a large circular connector series
that was popular for microphones called the P series. Mics used the 3 pin P3
version. Some loudspeakers use the P4 or P8 versions of this connector to
this day.

In an attempt to make a smaller connector for the microphone market Cannon
came out with the UA series. These were "D" shaped instead of circular and
were used on such mics as the Electro-Voice 666, 666R, and 655C.

There was a desire for a smaller yet connector. Someone pointed out the
small circular Cannon X series. The problem with this was it had no latch.
Cannon rearranged the pins and added a latch, and the XL (X series with
Latch) was born. This is the connector others such as Switchcraft and later
Neutrik have copied.

Later Cannon modified the female end only to put the contacts in a Resilient
Rubber compound. They called this new version the XLR series. No other
company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?


In article >, rich rookie
> wrote:

> "Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Dave Turner > wrote:
> >
> > > ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> > >
> > > Subject: RE: ITT Cannon - Contact Us
> > > Date: Monday 17 Nov 2003 12:14 pm
> > > From: Technical Query >
> > > To: '"
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hello David
> > >
> > > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had
> an
> > > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > John Embleton
> > > Technical Support
> > > ITT Industries,
> > > Cannon Connector Division,
> > > Basingstoke.
> > > UK
> >
> > > So that's the official answer.
> >
> > Official? It's not even an answer. He might just as well have said,
> > "Who cares?" or "None of your damn business."
> >
> > > Ray A. Rayburn gives further information
> > > which ties in with this at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html which
> gives
> >
> > Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
> > internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
> > story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
> > This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
> > know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
> > Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
> > this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
> > contradict it. Not that it really matters.
> >
> > What does "NC3FD" stand for?
> >
> > ulysses
>
> I just happend across this, this morning. From
> http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html
>
> Richard
>
>
> At one time Cannon (now ITT Cannon) made a large circular connector series
> that was popular for microphones called the P series. Mics used the 3 pin P3
> version. Some loudspeakers use the P4 or P8 versions of this connector to
> this day.
>
> In an attempt to make a smaller connector for the microphone market Cannon
> came out with the UA series. These were "D" shaped instead of circular and
> were used on such mics as the Electro-Voice 666, 666R, and 655C.
>
> There was a desire for a smaller yet connector. Someone pointed out the
> small circular Cannon X series. The problem with this was it had no latch.
> Cannon rearranged the pins and added a latch, and the XL (X series with
> Latch) was born. This is the connector others such as Switchcraft and later
> Neutrik have copied.
>
> Later Cannon modified the female end only to put the contacts in a Resilient
> Rubber compound. They called this new version the XLR series. No other
> company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
> generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!
>
>
>

[rich rookie]

I'm still there.



"Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
m...
> Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

I can see that.


In article >, rich rookie
> wrote:

> I'm still there.
>
>
>
> "Justin Ulysses Morse" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Did you ever see that movie "Groundhog Day"?
>
>

[T. Day]

Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

[William Sommerwerck]

There were lots of answers, but none seemed to be (as Zaphod Beeblebrox would
say) "definitively definitive."

> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

[Geoff Wood]

"rich rookie" > wrote in message news:yN6vb.7326

> company has copied this feature. It is amusing that XLR has become the
> generic term since what everyone else copied was the XL and not the XLR!


Naaa, they leeft the R on, because people looking for a *small* connector
would be put off by XL !

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.

Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[William Sommerwerck]

>> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

> Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
> apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
> the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.

> Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?

But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and isn't.

[Geoff Wood]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> >> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?
>
> > Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
> > apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
> > the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.
>
> > Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?
>
> But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and
isn't.

And the 'NE' before '5534' definitely is .


geoff

[Pooh Bear]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
> > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
> > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
>
> That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
> series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
> insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
> and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
> sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).

I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.

Cable gland is screwed on.

R for rubber sounds plausible.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Geoff Wood wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> news:znr1069087689k@trad...
> >
> > In article >
> writes:
> >
> > > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had
> an
> > > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
> >
> > That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
> > series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
> > insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
> > and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
> > sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).
>
> Xtremely Large Round ?!!
>

It's the EPs that are extremely large and round !


Graham

[William Sommerwerck]

> I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.

But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
one with a flexible insert.

[Dave Johnson]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> The wire colors of traditional thermocouples indicate which
> type they are (J, K, etc.) and coincidentally also the "polarity".
> They have never followed the electronics tradition of black=
> negative, red=positive.

Depends on what country the thermocouples are from.
http://www.omega.com/techref/thermcolorcodes.html

I had to deal with these in a multinational factory--parts from
different parts of Europe, Japan, USA, and a mix of mostly K and J, and
nothing labeled.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
William Sommerwerck > wrote:
>> I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.
>
>But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
>one with a flexible insert.

I bet they weren't really XLRs at all, but A3Ms or something.

It's been a long time since I have seen anyone else using the Cannon connectors,
although Newark still stocks them and I like them a lot.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
> one with a flexible insert.

What's old is new again. But believe it, Cannon actually did make them
with rubber(like) inserts. I have a few. They really look old-timey.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[[email protected]]

Pooh Bear > wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>> In article > writes:
>>
>> > As far as I know the XLR is just a series part number, it may have had an
>> > original meaning, however we have no info here on it.
>>
>> That seems to be as good an answer as any. There apparently was an XL
>> series of connector that was the same size and layout, but with a hard
>> insert. The XLR had a somewhat flexible rubber base for the insert,
>> and that's where the "R" came from (according to other folklore,
>> sometimes traceable to ITT Cannon).

> I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.
> Cable gland is screwed on.
> R for rubber sounds plausible.

Plausible, but far from certain. What is known is that XLR was a
Cannon (before ITT) part number. I've heard people say that LR
may have stood for "long reach" too, which is also plausible,
but unestablished. Usually, the only way you'd ever find out
what it "meant" would be to get the skinny from some old timer
in the Cannon engineering department.

Typically, part names/numbers come from two sources. One is
the engineering department where they are given names just
for project/ID purposes. Numbers often come from the numbering
of projects, such as IC development 709 etc. Names usually
make sense at some level IF one knows the thinking at the time.
For example it COULD have been "Experimental, Low Impedance,
Rubber Insert connector project" Which thence got shortened
to XLR. (X is a common letter used to mean experimental).
BUT as I said ONLY an old-timer at Cannon would know for sure.
The letters could just as easily have been something else.
Maybe even referring to internal names, departments etc.,
they had at Cannon.

The Second place part names come from is the marketing dept.
In such a case, the name would be choosen for "hype" Hence
the "X"...you know like the X-1 rocket ship etc.! And the "LR"
could be anything made up just so as to sound cool and not
create confusion with other parts (either in house or competitor).

As for the "true" story, only an engineer who was there
at the time could say for sure. I'm old enough to have seen
XLR as the cannon part number, but I never worked at Cannon
and have no inside info as to the reasons for the name.

Benj
(Who in those days preferred Amphenol connectors which were
considerably cheaper than Cannon and worked as well, IMHO)

--
Due to SPAM innundation above address is turned off!

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Plausible, but far from certain. What is known is that XLR was a
> Cannon (before ITT) part number. I've heard people say that LR
> may have stood for "long reach" too, which is also plausible,
> but unestablished. Usually, the only way you'd ever find out
> what it "meant" would be to get the skinny from some old timer
> in the Cannon engineering department.

Who really cares? It's a part number and it doesn't have to mean
anything, and probably doesn't, really.

We have:
LA-2 (Leveling Amplifier)
RNC 1773 (Really Nice Compressor and the year McQ was born - not
really, but I forget the meaning of 1773, but it does have a
meaning)
3630 (Address of the Alesis factory at the time)
AG-440 (Audio General)

I suppose that XLR could stand for something, but I imagine that if it
actually did, someone would know. This is a pretty historic part
number.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Bob Olhsson]

In article >, > wrote:

>
>As for the "true" story, only an engineer who was there
>at the time could say for sure.

The only thing I know is that the letter "R" stood for "resilient
socket insulator" which differentiated it from the older phenolic
insulated "XL" model.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

[Richard Crowley]

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in ...
> The only thing I know is that the letter "R" stood for "resilient
> socket insulator" which differentiated it from the older phenolic
> insulated "XL" model.

They probably used "R" for "rubber", but the marketing gerbs
changed it to "resilient" to make it sound more refined. :-)

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> "Bob Olhsson" wrote in ...
> > The only thing I know is that the letter "R" stood for "resilient
> > socket insulator" which differentiated it from the older phenolic
> > insulated "XL" model.
>
> They probably used "R" for "rubber", but the marketing gerbs
> changed it to "resilient" to make it sound more refined. :-)

Actually, Bob's probably right, assuming the concept is correct. I was
trying to think of a two dollar word for "rubber" when I wrote that
earlier in this thread. I doubt that genuine rubber was ever actually
used, though this was before the day when a company could be sued for
misrepresentation if they actually used a synthetic rubber-like
resilient compound instead of the stuff that grows on trees.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Johnston West]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message


> I suppose that XLR could stand for something, but I imagine that if it
> actually did, someone would know. This is a pretty historic part
> number.

Hasn't this been answered? ...... A few times.


X = A small circular plug in the Cannon connector series that was not
originally designed for microphones, but was later adapted, due to
it's small size.

Cannon originally made a large circular connector, the "P" (pin)
series. Microphones used a 3 pin design of that. Speakers used (and
still do) a 4 or 8 pin version of that series......... They wanted a
smaller connector so they designed the "UA" series which were D shaped
connectors. Mics such as the EV 666 and 654 used these........ In
their desire for an even smaller mic connector they went with a small
circular connector that cannon had around called the "X" series.

L = Latch.... The X series had no latch, so they added one

R = Rubber .... The XL series connector became popluar and cannon
later embedded the contacts in rubber to insulate them.

XLR

J_West


Read more here from Ray Rayburn, a very knowlegable audio technician
....... http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

[John Deans]

I cant remember where but I once read that XLR meant "extra low resistance"
the connector was originally designed for instrumentation work before being
taken up by the audio industry originally made by ITT cannon hence they
where called cannons when I started in the audio world in the late seventies
and where available in 2 to 8 way versions

John Deans

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1069625531k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
> > Plausible, but far from certain. What is known is that XLR was a
> > Cannon (before ITT) part number. I've heard people say that LR
> > may have stood for "long reach" too, which is also plausible,
> > but unestablished. Usually, the only way you'd ever find out
> > what it "meant" would be to get the skinny from some old timer
> > in the Cannon engineering department.
>
> Who really cares? It's a part number and it doesn't have to mean
> anything, and probably doesn't, really.
>
> We have:
> LA-2 (Leveling Amplifier)
> RNC 1773 (Really Nice Compressor and the year McQ was born - not
> really, but I forget the meaning of 1773, but it does have a
> meaning)
> 3630 (Address of the Alesis factory at the time)
> AG-440 (Audio General)
>
> I suppose that XLR could stand for something, but I imagine that if it
> actually did, someone would know. This is a pretty historic part
> number.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I cant remember where but I once read that XLR meant "extra low resistance"

Probably on the Internet somehwere. People make up all sorts fo facts
and post them. Fortunately, Internet literature doesn't last forever
(though sometimes it seems like it does).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[normanstrong]

The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.
Most answers look for what the letters could stand for rather than how
they originated. I'm only interested in what inspired the choice in
the first place, and that is not always easy to determine.

The meaning of XLR may never be known, unless Cannon was thoughtful
about documenting it; we may have to settle for a plausible
explanation and hope for the best. If the designer of the connector
is still alive, he might be able to help.

In the case of DVD, we're fortunate. Most of us were around when the
acronym was invented and know the history. DVD stands for "Digital
Video Disc." Digital Versatile Disc was simply a revision applied
when the disc began to be used for other purposes. I suspect that
most definitions of XLR fall into the same category (as do the choices
for BNC.)

We may never know for sure.

Norm Strong

[Jay Kadis]

e(X)aggerated (L)ong-term (R)eliability

I have a pair of AKG C460s with unreliable XLR connections, leading to phantom
power-introduced noise if the cables are moved. They're about 10 years old and
got a lot of use, but it seems the male XLR pins on the mics are worn enough to
compromise the contact quality. New female XLRs on the cables still don't make
solid connection.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

Geoff Wood -nospam> wrote:

> > But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and
> isn't.
>
> And the 'NE' before '5534' definitely is .

Are you going to tell me it's supposed to stand for "NEve"?

ulysses

[Mike Rivers]

In article <9B5xb.230431$mZ5.1739458@attbi_s54> writes:

> The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.

BNC actually stands for something. B stands for bayonet. NC might be
Navy Connector (but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense).

> In the case of DVD, we're fortunate. Most of us were around when the
> acronym was invented and know the history. DVD stands for "Digital
> Video Disc." Digital Versatile Disc was simply a revision applied
> when the disc began to be used for other purposes.

My recollection was that it was the other way around. The original
name was Digital Versatile Disk, but since the primary application
(for the masses) was for video, people who never knew otherwise
figured that it stood for Digital Video Disk, and there you are.

People who want to use the other versatile applications prefer their
geekier names - DVD-ROM/RAM, DVD-A, and so on.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[William Sommerwerck]

> My recollection was that it was the other way around. The original
> name was Digital Versatile Disk, but since the primary application
> (for the masses) was for video, people who never knew otherwise
> figured that it stood for Digital Video Disk, and there you are.

Nope. V was originally Video. It was changed to Versatile when the ROM potential
became apparent.

[David Morton]

In article <9B5xb.230431$mZ5.1739458@attbi_s54>,
(normanstrong) wrote:

> The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.
> Most answers look for what the letters could stand for rather than how
> they originated.

But while Bayonet Neill Concelman (and its friend Threaded Neill
Concelman) have the blessing of historical accuracy, they're so much less
*fun* than the modern myth of 'British Naval Connector'.

The latter interpretation - while being fur-lined & ocean-going ******** -
has that whiff of romance and charm about it: Think of salty old sea-dogs
trying to wire battleships together with RG58 as the morning mist rolls
over Scapa Flow.

In my latter days at the BBC I tried to fight the onset of terminal
boredom by trying to convince impressionable young engineers that it stood
for 'British Navel Connector'...with some success, sadly.

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Nope. V was originally Video. It was changed to Versatile when the ROM
> potential became apparent.

Sigh . . . does anyone REALLY remember what happened in the nineties?




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[ChuxGarage]

Actually, I'm told that BNC stands for "Bayonet N Connector." If you inspect
an "N" connector, you will see that the inside closely resembles a BNC but it
has a huge external screw on ring to secure it. The BNC uses a much smaller
bayonet ring to secure it.

The large housing of the N connector makes it suitable for use with large
cables like 5/8" antenna transmission line. The much smaller BNC is limited to
smaller cables like RG-59, which makes it a great choice for video.

[David Morton]

In article >,
(ChuxGarage) wrote:

> Actually, I'm told that BNC stands for "Bayonet N Connector." If you
> inspect
> an "N" connector, you will see that the inside closely resembles a BNC
> but it
> has a huge external screw on ring to secure it. The BNC uses a much
> smaller
> bayonet ring to secure it.

If that were true, then the TNC (the BNC's sibling) would stand for
"Threaded N Connector", which makes no sense at all, since it wouldn't
differentiate the TNC from the original N connector (and they're not even
slightly compatible).

[S O'Neill]

But a BNC fits a TNC well enough to inser test equipment into a feedline.

David Morton wrote:

> In article >,
> (ChuxGarage) wrote:
>
>
>>Actually, I'm told that BNC stands for "Bayonet N Connector." If you
>>inspect
>>an "N" connector, you will see that the inside closely resembles a BNC
>>but it
>>has a huge external screw on ring to secure it. The BNC uses a much
>>smaller
>>bayonet ring to secure it.
>
>
> If that were true, then the TNC (the BNC's sibling) would stand for
> "Threaded N Connector", which makes no sense at all, since it wouldn't
> differentiate the TNC from the original N connector (and they're not even
> slightly compatible).

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Actually, I'm told that BNC stands for "Bayonet N Connector."

Next question: What does "N" stand for?

> If you inspect
> an "N" connector, you will see that the inside closely resembles a BNC

Correct. It's been a while since I've had these in my hands, but it
seems that I recall that you can stick an N plug on a BNC socket if
you don't have to worry about securing the connection.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> If that were true, then the TNC (the BNC's sibling) would stand for
> "Threaded N Connector", which makes no sense at all

That's why, as folklore has it, the T stands for "Tiny." But there are
even smaller coax connectors.

N, BNC, and TNC connectors all fit together to a certain extent.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <znr1069956960k@trad>, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>In article > writes:
>
>> If that were true, then the TNC (the BNC's sibling) would stand for
>> "Threaded N Connector", which makes no sense at all
>
>That's why, as folklore has it, the T stands for "Tiny." But there are
>even smaller coax connectors.
>
>N, BNC, and TNC connectors all fit together to a certain extent.

And C connectors will fit into PL-259 UHF connectors if you bang them
together with vise-grips and wrap them in duct tape. But there will be
an impedance mismatch at the join.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Johnston West]

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1069942568k@trad>...
> In article > writes:
>
> > Nope. V was originally Video. It was changed to Versatile when the ROM
> > potential became apparent.
>
> Sigh . . . does anyone REALLY remember what happened in the nineties?

Hey if you remember the nineties, that means your weren't really
there! .... ahh... or was that the sixties? .... I can't remember what
happened in between.

But I thought the V meant Video too origianlly, and later changed to
Versitle........ but hey, you can't believe half of what you read on
the net, right?

J_West

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 27 Nov 2003 13:19:27 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>Next question: What does "N" stand for?

Nothing.
(a la North by Northwest)

Chris Hornbeck
"That is my Theory, and what it is too."
Anne Elk

[ChuxGarage]

>Next question: What does "N" stand for?

Why, it's the connector that prreceeded the "P" connector, :-)

Of course, I've never seen an "O" connnector......

[Edi Zubovic]

On 26 Nov 2003 20:37:20 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <9B5xb.230431$mZ5.1739458@attbi_s54> writes:
>
>> The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.
>
>BNC actually stands for something. B stands for bayonet. NC might be
>Navy Connector (but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense).


I think it's Bayonet Neil-Concelman, they invented that.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Edi Zubovic]

On 27 Nov 2003 15:18:21 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:


>And C connectors will fit into PL-259 UHF connectors if you bang them
>together with vise-grips and wrap them in duct tape. But there will be
>an impedance mismatch at the join.
>--scott

Ouch. I have UHF to BNC adaptors on my oldie Hartmann Braun
oscilloscope from the fifties.

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

Once, someone asked whether a VHS cassette would fit into the Beta
recorder. The answer has been, yes. With a hammer and once only.

[Edi Zubovic]

On 18 Nov 2003 21:03:30 -0500, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article > writes:
>
>> How would we ever be able to get this right when JBL was making RED the
>> negitive on thier speakers!!!
>
>My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
>and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
>that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
>other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
>what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.
>

That's prettly like like in an old French comedy movie I don't
remember the title but there has been a burglar instructed by his boss
to conecct "red wire to red wire, black wire to black wire" and he
kept repeating all the way "red to red, black to black, red to red,
black to black" etc. Of course, the wires were blue and white :)

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Pooh Bear]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

> > I even have at least one old XL connector. Yup, hard plastic insert.
>
> But I've bought XLRs with hard inserts. In fact, I don't ever remember seeing
> one with a flexible insert.

Genuine * Cannon * XLRs have rubber inserts.

Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Dave Turner wrote:

> Al Gershen wrote:
>
> > I've searched over the Internet and I haven't been able to find a
> > defination for what the letters "XLR" mean.
> >
> > Can you help me?

http://www.denecke.com/prod04.htm#AD20

http://www.proav.de/index.html?http&&&www.proav.de/history/XLR_history.html

They seem to agree. X series connector - modified to add a Latch - with
Resilent Rubber insert.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <9B5xb.230431$mZ5.1739458@attbi_s54> writes:
>
> > The question is similar to the question of what BNC or DVD stands for.
>
> BNC actually stands for something. B stands for bayonet. NC might be
> Navy Connector (but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense).
>
> > In the case of DVD, we're fortunate. Most of us were around when the
> > acronym was invented and know the history. DVD stands for "Digital
> > Video Disc." Digital Versatile Disc was simply a revision applied
> > when the disc began to be used for other purposes.
>
> My recollection was that it was the other way around. The original
> name was Digital Versatile Disk, but since the primary application
> (for the masses) was for video, people who never knew otherwise
> figured that it stood for Digital Video Disk, and there you are.

That's my recollection too.

Especially as it wasn't initially designed as a purely video format.


> People who want to use the other versatile applications prefer their
> geekier names - DVD-ROM/RAM, DVD-A, and so on.

+R / -R etc. I've given up trying to understand them all. Just hope the drive
manufacturers settle on something finally.

Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Edi Zubovic wrote:

> On 27 Nov 2003 15:18:21 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> >And C connectors will fit into PL-259 UHF connectors if you bang them
> >together with vise-grips and wrap them in duct tape. But there will be
> >an impedance mismatch at the join.
> >--scott
>
> Ouch. I have UHF to BNC adaptors on my oldie Hartmann Braun
> oscilloscope from the fifties.

I *had* some on an old valve /tube Tektronix scope many many yrs ago. Had a
pair of 545s. One had BMCs on the plug ins, the other didn't.


> Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
>
> Once, someone asked whether a VHS cassette would fit into the Beta
> recorder. The answer has been, yes. With a hammer and once only.

Lol ! Ever tried getting a Beta tape out of a Betacam machine when it gets
stuck ?


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

intifada wrote:

> "S O'Neill" wrote
> >
> > What does it mean on an XLR-5?
>
> Well, I managed to track down Robert the Robot to ask him, but he insists
> that Fireball XL-5 had nothing to do with recording equipment, but maybe
> Gerry Anderson was onto something way back then....

Holy Smoke !

I used an XL-5 to connect the PSU to the first desk I ever designed !


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> > My father (before I was born) worked as an electrician in a shipyard,
> > and wired up a bunch of pyrometers backwards because his boss insisted
> > that the red wire was positive and told him to wire them that way. The
> > other (the real positive) wire was white. Didn't matter (to the boss)
> > what the instruction sheet said. He knew better.
>
> The wire colors of traditional thermocouples indicate which
> type they are (J, K, etc.) and coincidentally also the "polarity".
> They have never followed the electronics tradition of black=
> negative, red=positive.

And just to confuse matters, K type thermocouples have just changed from
brown and blue conductors with a yellow plug to green and white conductors
with a green plug !

What is all that about ?

Graham

[Pooh Bear]

ChuxGarage wrote:

> >So, both Americans and Europeans
> >were inconsistent between microphones and everything else
>
> Back in the 1970's I attended the AES Convention where the membership voted to
> adopt the standard of "Pin 2 Hot." This was done largely at the request of the
> groups UK and European members.
>
> Up until this point, most American gear was wired Pin 3 hot. This change of
> convention to the new standard was very inconvenient, but viewed by most in the
> US as something we simply had to do. Or so we thought. Shortly after the new
> convention was adopted, many UK manufacturers, Soundcraft and Midas among
> others, started delivering consoles with "Pin 3 Hot." I've owned several of
> them. What possessed them to switch is still a mystery to me.

From memory it was to make them compatible with US equipment ! Back then, the newer
low cost ( compared to Neve say ) UK mixer manufacturers were almost a cottage
industry. I doubt many were AES members originally.


> Some were even
> wired with balanced inputs, pin two positive, but outputs unbalanced pin 3 hot.
> The question of whether pin two was connected to ground or just left floating,
> connected to nothing at all was also un-standardized. Some were, some weren't.
> You see, in those days it was fairly common to have balanced inputs and
> unbalanced outputs via an XLR.

Indeed.

> This made for many years of confusion, and the need to carry around lots of
> polarity reversing adapters am "magic" adapter
> cables to make things work.
>
> You younger guys take a lot for granted these days when you buy a workable
> mixer for well under $500, and everything is more or less like it should be.
> It wasn't always the case.

Lol, Graham

[Pooh Bear]

"T. Day" wrote:

> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?

See my recent post. Even if it's not right ( although it sounds v
convincing ) it seems to be the adopted answer.

Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article > writes:
>
> > Did anyone actually anwer the original question?
>
> Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
> apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
> the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.
>
> Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?

Especially as the 5532 is the dual version.

At least Texas made more sense with TL071, 2 and 4.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Geoff Wood wrote:

> "William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >> Did anyone actually anwer the original question?
> >
> > > Yes. It's a part designation. It doesn't have to mean anything, and
> > > apparently it doesn't, thought it seems to be in the same family as
> > > the part designation for other connectors that have some similarities.
> >
> > > Like the popular IC, the 5534. What does that mean?
> >
> > But "XLR" looks as if it might be an initialization. 5534 doesn't and
> isn't.
>
> And the 'NE' before '5534' definitely is .

NE is / was the standard prefix used by Signetics for linear ICs.

No idea what that stands for. No Equivalent ? he joked. At least National's
LM stands for Linear Monolithic.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> "J. Joyce" wrote ...
> ...
> > It is also interesting to note that ITT/Cannon no longer manufactures
> > the Cannon XLR connectors (or so I have heard).
>
> Perhaps in the USA. But I still see what appear to be new
> "ITT/Cannon Japan" connectors on audio and video equipment
> from Sony (for example). The classic desgn with the rubber
> insulator in the female variety.

Yup. Me too.

Some were made by Cannon Australia too.


> > I believe they sold the patent to Switchcraft.
>
> If they did (which I kinda' doubt), it wasn't exclusive.
> I recall a significant period when Cannon (and then ITT/
> Cannon) were still selling XLRs even after Switchcraft
> started selling their equivalent version.

For years and years and years. Another poster reminded me that Amphenol
made a version for a while too.

Beware of some cheap Asian copies of the Switchcraft style. I've seen some
where the pins 2 and 3 are incorrectly numbered !


> OTOH, I concur that "XLR" was just an arbitrary part
> number from Cannon. Any nmemonic or acronynomic
> associations were invented after the fact by users out
> in the field and had nothing to do with the original
> name/numbers.

X connector with Latch and Resilient rubber insert. Predated by the XL
which didn't have the rubber insert.


Graham

[Pooh Bear]

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

> Now this explanation makes much more sense. But having been around the
> internet awhile I have learned the important truth that just because a
> story sounds plausible, or has been written, doesn't make it true.
> This explanation has been repeated by a few other people but for all I
> know they could have all gotten it from a single unreliable source.
> Since every other explanation I've heard has been obvious bull****,
> this is the one I'll choose to believe until I find evidence to
> contradict it. Not that it really matters.
>
> What does "NC3FD" stand for?

Neutrik Connector 3 pin Female ummm.....


Graham