Acoustic guitar mic?

[PeteL]

Hi,
I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
full mix as much as I would like them to.

I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
with selectable patterns.
It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.

Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
elsewhere?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks as always,
Pete

[Stephen Boyke]

in article , PeteL at
wrote on 11/16/03 12:27 PM:

> Hi,
> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> with selectable patterns.
> It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.
>
> Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
> elsewhere?
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks as always,
> Pete

Try two mics, adding a LD to the 184, pan a bit.
--
Stephen T. Boyke

[Dave Martin]

"PeteL" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi,
> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> with selectable patterns.

I'm a little concerned that the signal chain you mentioned is not cutting
through a mix - especially since the 184 is a pretty bright mic. I've used
the 184/Grace combination with good results; where are you putting the mic?


--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> I'm selling the 184

That's too bad. I suspect that the problem isn't with the mic at all,
but with the guitar, how you're placing the mic, or how you're
mixing. It's hard to get an acoustic guitar to cut through a full mix.
You have to make room for it in the mix. This involves cutting some
frequency ranges in both the guitar and other instruments in your mix
until they fit together the way you want them to.

Don't sell the mic yet.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

PeteL > wrote:
>I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
>The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
>full mix as much as I would like them to.

What if you use EQ? If you use EQ, what do you have to do in order
to get it through.

>I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
>AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
>with selectable patterns.

How will this help you?

>It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.

So can the KM184.

>Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
>elsewhere?

You should be looking at the way your arrangement is laid out and how you
are EQing the mix.

You might like the Baby Bottle, which is a very aggressive sound, but you
can get maybe 80% of that sound out of the 184 with equalization. And it
might not be the sound you want.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Brian Standefer]

> I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> with selectable patterns.

I'd keep the 184 if you can...however on acoustic I've used a 4060 with
great results (also used an RNC). Also check placement, if you can't find a
sweet spot around the opening try the 12th fret which works well with
Martin's.

Good luck,

B

[Chris Seifert]

This is pretty surprising to hear ast he KM184 is a pretty bright mic
imho.
In fact when I need an acoustic to cut through a mix I grab KM184's
not large dia mics as they tend
to build up on lows more than aggressively cut through a mix.

Is it possible the trouble is mix related and not signal path related?
Good luck but I wouldn't dump the km184 in this case I would remix or
experiment with mic placement as that to me sounds like the real
problem.

chris,
wavetrap


(PeteL) wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> with selectable patterns.
> It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.
>
> Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
> elsewhere?
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks as always,
> Pete

[David Nobel]

(PeteL) wrote in message >...
> Hi,
> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> with selectable patterns.
> It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.
>
> Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
> elsewhere?
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks as always,
> Pete

Keep the KM184 at least long enough to include it in your own
shoot-out with some other mics. Then beg, borrow, and buy on approval
enough other mics--and a pre or two--to make the test interesting. If
finding mics in your area is tough (like mine), you can get some to
try by mail order from shops like Mercenary. I strongly suggest you
include one of the T.H.E KR-25A capsules with the KR-04 pre mount in
your test; for some, myself included, this is the ultimate L.D.
acoustic guitar mic; this can also double as a vocal mic. The KR-2C is
also excellent, with a 1/2" diaphragm.

Good luck!

-- David

[Digital Heaven]

In article >, Scott Dorsey
> wrote:

> PeteL > wrote:
> >I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> >The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> >full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
..
>
> You might like the Baby Bottle, which is a very aggressive sound, but you
> can get maybe 80% of that sound out of the 184 with equalization. And it
> might not be the sound you want.
> --scott

I concur with Scott, I just started using the baby bottle on
acoustic...and I'm very pleased with the results, especially if you you
give a little distance....12-18" from the neck.

Steve

[PeteL]

"Brian Standefer" > wrote in message >...
> > I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> > AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> > with selectable patterns.
>
> I'd keep the 184 if you can...however on acoustic I've used a 4060 with
> great results (also used an RNC). Also check placement, if you can't find a
> sweet spot around the opening try the 12th fret which works well with
> Martin's.
>
> Good luck,
>
> B



Thanks very much for the helpful info!

Stephen Boyke-I have a Dragonfly also,but only one channel of Grace.
My other pre is a Mackie.
Guess I could take a shot at mixing the two.

Dave Martin-I have tried every possible position with the mic.
Even used two different rooms,one carpeted,one hardwood.

Mike Rivers-Any suggestions where I can start with the eq cuts?

I'm mixing together drums(machine),miked cab for electric,bass,and
harmonica.
The acoustics are a Guild and a Martin.
Everything is recorded in mono except the drums.

Scott Dorsey-
I'm hoping a Lg.Dia. will have a little more cutting power and
fullness in the mix.
Thec 184 just dosn't seem to have the strengh to push,for instance,a
single acoustic lead line through the mix.

Any pointers on the eq?
I cut most of the lows up to 150 on my DAW,in addition to engaging the
HPF on the Grace.

When yo say layout,you mean panning correct?
Any positioning I can use to help clarify the mix?

Brian Standefer-I hate to get rid of the 184,just dosn't seem to be
cutting it though.
I'm also looking at the C414,possibly in the future.
Anybody used it on acoustic?

Thanks very much for the help,
Pete

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(PeteL) wrote:
>Hi,
>I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
>The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
>full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
>I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
>AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
>with selectable patterns.
>It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.
>
>Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
>elsewhere?
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks as always,
>Pete

Pete,

If 184s are not cutting through a mix, larger diaphragm mics are probably
not the solution. You don't really want to go any brighter than a 184, if in
fact, that's not too far already.

Try EQing to make room for the guitars. Try placement. Again, new mics are
probably not the answer here.


Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Audy]

> I'd keep the 184 if you can...however on acoustic I've used a 4060 with
> great results (also used an RNC). Also check placement, if you can't find a
> sweet spot around the opening try the 12th fret which works well with
> Martin's.
>
> Good luck,
>
> B

I'd have to agree, the KM184 is plenty bright. Being a guitar player
as well, I'd look at the technique of the player. If he's finger
picking, the cut and length of the nails on the picking hand can have
a tremendous effect on the sound, also the player's technique. Maybe
he is catching more of the fleshy part of the finger tip instead of
the finger nail. It's hard to ask a player to change his/her technique
though.

If he's using a pick and it's still not bright enough, then try
changing to brighter strings. Acoustic bronze seems to give more of
the high harmonics and overtones than Phosphor bronze which the
phosphors seem to give more mids, a slightly harder sound. You can
also experiment with the ga. of the strings. Extra light will be more
"zingy" which med. or heavy ga. will give you more mids and lows in
the balance.

You can also use a bridge or contact pickup and combine it with the
mic signal. You will get all the brightness you need this way.

You can also trim the lows and bring the guitar up in the mix, that
should allow it to cut through fine. I'd try these before getting rid
of the 184s. Best of luck!

Audy
Radar 24 Dealer

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Mike Rivers-Any suggestions where I can start with the eq cuts?

Quick fix - cut at least 6 dB on everything in the 200-250 Hz range.
Then start putting back only what you need. That will take care of the
muddiness that tends to keep anything from cutting through. Then,
listen to what else is playing when you can't hear the acoustic guitar
and cut a couple of dB in the 800 Hz to 2 kHz range.

Also, use panning to separate the acoustic guitar. Pan it well off
center, or pan everything else well off center if the guitar is truly
the centerpiece of the mix. And in general, instead of turning
something up in order to hear it better, consider turning something
else down instead.

> I'm mixing together drums(machine),miked cab for electric,bass,and
> harmonica.
> The acoustics are a Guild and a Martin.
> Everything is recorded in mono except the drums.

How many acoustic guitars are you piling up together? If you have
several guitars all going at the same time, they really need to be
doing different things, both musically and in the mix, if you expect
to be able to hear all of them clearly.

> Thec 184 just dosn't seem to have the strengh to push,for instance,a
> single acoustic lead line through the mix.

It has plenty, but you may need to compress the lead part so that you
don't lose notes here and there. But if you have one lead acoustic
guitar on top of a couple of other acoustic guitars playing rhythm (or
something), it's easy to lose the lead. Cut the midrange out of
everything but the lead, and cut the low end of the lead.

> I'm also looking at the C414,possibly in the future.
> Anybody used it on acoustic?

I have, but I'm quite certain, even without hearing your recording,
that the problem isn't with your KM184, unless it's broken. Have you
considered taking your recordings to a studio with an engineer who has
some experience with mixing your kind of music? It might cost you $100
for some time, but you're bound to learn a whole lot more from the
experience than you can from a bunch of people who don't know what
your tracks sound like.

But then I suppose you live on the side of a mountain in Siberia, it's
snowing there now, there isn't a studio withing 50 miles, and your yak
hasn't been feeling well lately. Really, you need to have someone else
put an ear to your recordings. (and don't even THINK about uploading a
file to this newsgroup)





--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Scott Dorsey]

PeteL > wrote:
>
>Scott Dorsey-
>I'm hoping a Lg.Dia. will have a little more cutting power and
>fullness in the mix.

Why? Just because it happens to be a large diaphragm mike doesn't mean
it has any particular sound.

>Thec 184 just dosn't seem to have the strengh to push,for instance,a
>single acoustic lead line through the mix.

Then change the mix.

>Any pointers on the eq?
>I cut most of the lows up to 150 on my DAW,in addition to engaging the
>HPF on the Grace.

Find a place where there isn't anything happening in the mix, and emphasize
those frequencies on the guitar.

>When yo say layout,you mean panning correct?
>Any positioning I can use to help clarify the mix?

No, the whole way you build the mix. What if you start out with the
acoustic, get that to sound the way you want, and then build the mix up
around it, equalizing each track so it doesn't interfere with the guitar.

>Brian Standefer-I hate to get rid of the 184,just dosn't seem to be
>cutting it though.
>I'm also looking at the C414,possibly in the future.
>Anybody used it on acoustic?

The 414 is fine on acoustic, but it won't be some miracle that will make
the guitar pop out of the mix. If you aren't carefully putting tracks together
so they leave space for the guitar, there won't be any space for the guitar
no matter how you mike it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Dave Martin]

"David Nobel" > wrote in message
om...
.. I strongly suggest you
> include one of the T.H.E KR-25A capsules with the KR-04 pre mount in
> your test;

Excellent call! I had a session in here last week (engineered by David
Seymour from Benchmark) where all the mics were THE's - He had two or three
of the KR 25's and one of the small diaphragm capsules, as well as my
KR-25 - very, very nice sounding acoustic music.


--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Dave Martin]

"PeteL" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Dave Martin-I have tried every possible position with the mic.
> Even used two different rooms,one carpeted,one hardwood.
> Pete

If putting the 184 4 or 5 inches away from where the neck of the guitar
meets the body doesn't give you a big sound with presence, the issue may be
in the guitar rather than in the mic. Did you remember to have new strings
on the instrument?

I don't remember that the RNC dulls the sound a whole lot, but you might
also try backing off the compression.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Carlos Alden]

On 11/17/03 6:31 AM, Scott Dorsey eloquently wrote:

> The 414 is fine on acoustic, but it won't be some miracle that will make
> the guitar pop out of the mix. If you aren't carefully putting tracks
> together
> so they leave space for the guitar, there won't be any space for the guitar
> no matter how you mike it.
> --scott

I have found this to be true in putting together mostly acoustic stringed
instruments. Merely getting each one to sound good doesn't ensure they will
play well together. We're talking about fretless open-back banjo, tenor
banjo, fingerpicked guitar, strummed guitar, cittern, mandolin, and maybe
electric bass.

One of the lessons I learned early was that I had to cut out the wonderful
bass from my guitar, as well as a lot of the trebles, to make it sit right.
Soloed it sounded like holy ****e, and I gnashed my teeth at having a $2000
great guitar that I had to reign in, tone-wise. But in the mix, repeat
after me, IN THE MIX, it was wonderful. I also learned that about mixing
rhythm guitar with cittern tracks. It all fell into a deep sleep mush,
rumbling around down there somewhere, indistinct. That is, until I capoed
way up, like seventh fret, and squeezed that eq down to midrange heaven.

In fact, sometimes I'll drastically alter the micing placement and/or eq to
make the cittern sound like different instruments, for when I do
lead/rhythm/harmony tracks. That, with proper panning, makes it a bigger
soundstage with several things going on, rather than a bunch of clashing
things happening.

Also important to note what Scott says about presenting one instrument. i
found it fine to do the full-range eq on the prominent instrument as long as
the others were tamed appropriately. This helped everyone play well
together as well as made the main voice really stand out.

Carlos

[LeBaron & Alrich]

PeteL wrote:

> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.

If the guitar isn't cutting through a mix I kind of doubt it's the
signal chain's fault here. Potentially, that chain is pretty seriously
capable of cutting through, unless one gets the mic to source
positioning where there is too much low end for the given track's
acoustic guitar part. That low end, which can sound gorgeous when
hearing the guitar alone, can quickly muddy a mix, hiding the guitar in
the process.

Where are you positioning the mics? Are you closing in on the sound
hole?

--
ha

[LeBaron & Alrich]

Dave Martin wrote:

> "PeteL" wrote...

> > Dave Martin-I have tried every possible position with the mic.
> > Even used two different rooms,one carpeted,one hardwood.

> If putting the 184 4 or 5 inches away from where the neck of the guitar
> meets the body doesn't give you a big sound with presence, the issue may be
> in the guitar rather than in the mic. Did you remember to have new strings
> on the instrument?

He might also try backing away from the guitar just slightly further
than the length of the instrument. Sometimes I find that gets me a
better take of the power of the whole guitar, instead of a somewhat less
powerful (pre-processing, EQ, etc.) portion of its sound.

Lots of approaches can beget great sounds; one often works better for a
particular situation.

For instances:

If we want a big balls, buddy, acoustic rhythm guitar track that can
drive a semi, I might step back to get the whole raucous momentum, then
trim to fit with EQ.

If we want a tinkly sauce on the top of the strawberry shortcake track I
might head for the body-neck junction, making sure we don't get
soundhole proximity effect boom, and trim to fit with EQ.

If we want a single line lead that calls out stoutly over the rest of
the mix, I might head for the lower large bout, aiming the mic slightly
upward and inward toward the bridge.

> I don't remember that the RNC dulls the sound a whole lot, but you might
> also try backing off the compression.

The RNC itself is flat to 100 KHz so I doubt that's the hurting point.
But smashing the dynamics out of a single line lead leaves it a wimply
shadow of its former self, often unable to rise above a mix. The RNC is
fast enough to steal the attack if you set it that way.

--
ha

[PeteL]

(Ty Ford) wrote in message >...
> In Article >,
> (PeteL) wrote:
> >Hi,
> >I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> >The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> >full mix as much as I would like them to.
> >
> >I'm selling the 184,and considering a Lg.Dia. condenser in it's place.
> >AT's seem to be the choice among Bluegrass players,possibly the 4050
> >with selectable patterns.
> >It can always double as a vocal mic too,a nice plus.
> >
> >Is this a good choice for recording acoustics,or should I be looking
> >elsewhere?
> >Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> >Thanks as always,
> >Pete
>
> Pete,
>
> If 184s are not cutting through a mix, larger diaphragm mics are probably
> not the solution. You don't really want to go any brighter than a 184, if in
> fact, that's not too far already.
>
> Try EQing to make room for the guitars. Try placement. Again, new mics are
> probably not the answer here.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
> **Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
> Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
> For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
> click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford


I really can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to help.
It's very much appreciated!

I'm going to keep the 184 for now and get to work on making it happen.
With all the great info you have given me,I'm sure I can make it work.

Thanks again,
Pete

BTW-Good one Mike,you caught me haha!

[Twist Turner]

For large diaphram condensors I've had really good luck with the
Soundelux U195 on acoustic guitars.



Twist Turner
http://tinyurl.com/ul70

[Ty Ford]

In Article >, "Dave Martin"
> wrote:
>"David Nobel" > wrote in message
om...
>. I strongly suggest you
>> include one of the T.H.E KR-25A capsules with the KR-04 pre mount in
>> your test;
>
>Excellent call! I had a session in here last week (engineered by David
>Seymour from Benchmark) where all the mics were THE's - He had two or three
>of the KR 25's and one of the small diaphragm capsules, as well as my
>KR-25 - very, very nice sounding acoustic music.


Yet the THE hyper Taylor sent me had unreasonably high self noise.

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Ty Ford]

In Article >,
(PeteL) wrote:
>I really can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to help.
>It's very much appreciated!
>
>I'm going to keep the 184 for now and get to work on making it happen.
>With all the great info you have given me,I'm sure I can make it work.
>
>Thanks again,
>Pete
>
>BTW-Good one Mike,you caught me haha!

Pete,

Let someone else play while you move th emic around to find the best spot,
while you're wearing headphones (and listening to the guitar.)

I find that 3-6 inches out from where the neck joins the body, pointed at
the fingerboard and angled to taste to allow the low end in is a good
starting place.

Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

[Dave Martin]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yet the THE hyper Taylor sent me had unreasonably high self noise.
>
Maybe Taylor likes us better...

Give it another try, Ty - the 25MM head I have here works great, and so did
the ones David brought.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

[Rich Wilner]

> Hi,
> I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> full mix as much as I would like them to.

Did you use this signal chain to record everything in the mix? I have
found that switching up the mic and pre makes a huge difference in
making things sit in the mix, especially when tracking the same
instrumemt for rhythm and solo/melodic parts. You can get some
excellent guitar sounds with some different (or more inexpensive, for
the budget-conscious) mics, and you save your favorite or most
hi-fidelity chain for the part that will be most positively impacted
by it.
As a "for example," on this latest tune I had a talented guitarist
playing a sweet taylor for 2 different parts. For the stumming stuff,
I used a pair of 184s in xy about 1' back, centered at the neck. For
the solo melodic stuff, I used a 451 about 2" from where his pick met
the strings and compressed it. Came out wonderfully. This is on top
of acoustic bass, drums, piano (baby grand), drums, percussion, vocals
and a string octet!!
so, in keeping with all the advice thus far: don't get rid of the 184s
yet.
Rich

[PeteL]

(Rich Wilner) wrote in message >...
> > Hi,
> > I am currently using a KM184/Grace/RNC to record acoustic guitars.
> > The room is decent,and the guitars are good,but not cutting through a
> > full mix as much as I would like them to.
>
> Did you use this signal chain to record everything in the mix? I have
> found that switching up the mic and pre makes a huge difference in
> making things sit in the mix, especially when tracking the same
> instrumemt for rhythm and solo/melodic parts. You can get some
> excellent guitar sounds with some different (or more inexpensive, for
> the budget-conscious) mics, and you save your favorite or most
> hi-fidelity chain for the part that will be most positively impacted
> by it.
> As a "for example," on this latest tune I had a talented guitarist
> playing a sweet taylor for 2 different parts. For the stumming stuff,
> I used a pair of 184s in xy about 1' back, centered at the neck. For
> the solo melodic stuff, I used a 451 about 2" from where his pick met
> the strings and compressed it. Came out wonderfully. This is on top
> of acoustic bass, drums, piano (baby grand), drums, percussion, vocals
> and a string octet!!
> so, in keeping with all the advice thus far: don't get rid of the 184s
> yet.
> Rich


Thanks very much for the help everyone.

Iv'e been tracking using all the info you guys shared,I'm getting a
much better sound.
Glad everyone talked me out of selling the 184,I would have regretted
it later.

I really apprecite everyone taking the time to help.
There's hope for me yet!

Pete

[Dave Martin]

"PeteL" > wrote in message
om...
> Thanks very much for the help everyone.
>
> Iv'e been tracking using all the info you guys shared,I'm getting a
> much better sound.
> Glad everyone talked me out of selling the 184,I would have regretted
> it later.
>
> I really apprecite everyone taking the time to help.
> There's hope for me yet!
>
Glad it worked out in the end.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com