Bassoon Recording

[Chris Seifert]

Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.

I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni. If I used
cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
However having the mic in omni gave alot of room tone and it was a
battle of getting the mic close enough to have a useable track but not
to close as to zero in on only one aspect of the bassoon tone.

Luckily the room and players were great so this micing issue was the
toughest part of the entire session by far. I'm just wondering for
future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
techniques they want to share...

Chris
wavetrap

[Bob Ross]

Chris Seifert wrote:

> Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
>
> I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni.

Okay, yep, that would work.

> If I used
> cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.

From 4 feet away?!?! I wouldn't expect a U-87 to have quite that tight a
pattern. I agree that bassoon definitely is an instrument that needs
distance for all its registers to congeal, but in my experience that can
usually be had within 3 or 4 feet...

> I'm just wondering for
> future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> techniques they want to share...

The bassoons I've recorded were usually captured quite successful with
exactly the mic technique you describe: a high quality large diaphragm
condenser 4 to 6 feet away and 4 or 5 feet off the ground. In the context
of a wind quintet I'm often more than satisfied micing the group as a
whole with a stereo pair. Did a contrabassoon a few years back where I
wound up putting a Neumann TLM-170i about 18" off the ground and 3' away
from the instrument; something about that just worked for the track,
though admittedly the piece wasn't "traditional" chamber music.

/Bob Ross

[Charles Tomaras]

"Bob Ross" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Seifert wrote:
>
> > Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> > this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
> >
> > I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> > the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> > What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> > feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni.
>
> Okay, yep, that would work.
>
> > If I used
> > cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> > bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> > that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
>
> From 4 feet away?!?! I wouldn't expect a U-87 to have quite that tight a
> pattern. I agree that bassoon definitely is an instrument that needs
> distance for all its registers to congeal, but in my experience that can
> usually be had within 3 or 4 feet...
>
> > I'm just wondering for
> > future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> > techniques they want to share...
>
> The bassoons I've recorded were usually captured quite successful with
> exactly the mic technique you describe: a high quality large diaphragm
> condenser 4 to 6 feet away and 4 or 5 feet off the ground. In the context
> of a wind quintet I'm often more than satisfied micing the group as a
> whole with a stereo pair. Did a contrabassoon a few years back where I
> wound up putting a Neumann TLM-170i about 18" off the ground and 3' away
> from the instrument; something about that just worked for the track,
> though admittedly the piece wasn't "traditional" chamber music.
>
> /Bob Ross

I wonder if it wouldn't help in a non-live situation to place an angled
reflective surface or shell a couple of feet above the instrument to project
some of the sound coming from the end of the bassoon? When playing in the
lowest half octave down to low B-flat, all or nearly all, of the sound is coming
out of the top of the instrument as no other sound holes are open.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

[P Stamler]

I had some success using a KM-84 about 24-30" away, about 30" from the ground.
It was an overdub session, so no problem with other instruments bleeding
through.

Probably a TLM-193 would sound good too. It certainly did on cello.

Peace,
Paul

[Joakim Wendel]

In article >,
Kalman Rubinson > wrote:

> I cannot comment on the techniques but there's a lovely recording by
> Susan Nigro on GM called "The Bass Nightingale" which I can recommend.
> GM2069CD
>
> Kal

I'd just like to add a great IMO recording by BIS
The romantic bassoon BIS CD-705
All Neumanns

>
>
> On 13 Nov 2003 17:13:00 -0800, (Chris Seifert)
> wrote:
>
> >Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> >this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
> >
> >I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> >the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> >What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> >feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni. If I used
> >cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> >bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> >that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
> >However having the mic in omni gave alot of room tone and it was a
> >battle of getting the mic close enough to have a useable track but not
> >to close as to zero in on only one aspect of the bassoon tone.
> >
> >Luckily the room and players were great so this micing issue was the
> >toughest part of the entire session by far. I'm just wondering for
> >future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> >techniques they want to share...
> >
> >Chris
> >wavetrap
>



--
Joakim Wendel
Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply.

My homepage : http://violinist.nu

[PVP9847]

i recently found a great spot for the bassoon - i used a TLM 170 and mic'ed her
from 2 1/2 feet away at about shoulder height - if she were facing 12 o'clock,
the mic was placed at around 3' o'clock facing the middle of the instrument -
after 22 years i finally got it right !!! - try it, it sounded beautiful

[Justin Ulysses Morse]

I'd be surprised if I didn't prefer a ribbon on bassoon. I personally
would be more interested in the midrange character than in the high
frequency detail (not that you can't have both), and I would expect to
really enjoy my BK-5s or 121s on a bassoon. But I haven't ever
recorded one so I'm speculating based primarily on my experience with
clarinets and the like.

ulysses


In article >, Chris
Seifert > wrote:

> Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
>
> I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni. If I used
> cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
> However having the mic in omni gave alot of room tone and it was a
> battle of getting the mic close enough to have a useable track but not
> to close as to zero in on only one aspect of the bassoon tone.
>
> Luckily the room and players were great so this micing issue was the
> toughest part of the entire session by far. I'm just wondering for
> future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> techniques they want to share...
>
> Chris
> wavetrap

[Chris Seifert]

Sounds like it should work great. I've got access to a pair of
TLM170's at the studio I've been recording her at as a freelancer so
I'll try that on her next session.
Thanks
chris
wavetrap


(PVP9847) wrote in message >...
> i recently found a great spot for the bassoon - i used a TLM 170 and mic'ed her
> from 2 1/2 feet away at about shoulder height - if she were facing 12 o'clock,
> the mic was placed at around 3' o'clock facing the middle of the instrument -
> after 22 years i finally got it right !!! - try it, it sounded beautiful
>

[Chris Seifert]

The tone of ribbons like the Royers in theory sounds like it should
work great on a basson. Unfortunately the studio I was tracking her at
didn't have any and I haven't yet picked up a pair of Royers for
myself - someday I will though.

I ended up using the U87 as I am so familiar with it and it's patterns
were usefull.

Thanks for the reminder thought that Ribbons- the other transducer
choice- shouldn't be forgotten.


chris
wavetrap

Justin Ulysses Morse > wrote in message >...
> I'd be surprised if I didn't prefer a ribbon on bassoon. I personally
> would be more interested in the midrange character than in the high
> frequency detail (not that you can't have both), and I would expect to
> really enjoy my BK-5s or 121s on a bassoon. But I haven't ever
> recorded one so I'm speculating based primarily on my experience with
> clarinets and the like.
>
> ulysses
>
>
> In article >, Chris
> Seifert > wrote:
>
> > Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> > this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
> >
> > I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> > the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> > What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> > feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni. If I used
> > cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> > bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> > that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
> > However having the mic in omni gave alot of room tone and it was a
> > battle of getting the mic close enough to have a useable track but not
> > to close as to zero in on only one aspect of the bassoon tone.
> >
> > Luckily the room and players were great so this micing issue was the
> > toughest part of the entire session by far. I'm just wondering for
> > future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> > techniques they want to share...
> >
> > Chris
> > wavetrap

[Ethan Winogrand]

(Chris Seifert) wrote in message >...
> The tone of ribbons like the Royers in theory sounds like it should
> work great on a basson. Unfortunately the studio I was tracking her at
> didn't have any and I haven't yet picked up a pair of Royers for
> myself - someday I will though.
>
> I ended up using the U87 as I am so familiar with it and it's patterns
> were usefull.
>
> Thanks for the reminder thought that Ribbons- the other transducer
> choice- shouldn't be forgotten.
>
>
> chris
> wavetrap
>
> Justin Ulysses Morse > wrote in message >...
> > I'd be surprised if I didn't prefer a ribbon on bassoon. I personally
> > would be more interested in the midrange character than in the high
> > frequency detail (not that you can't have both), and I would expect to
> > really enjoy my BK-5s or 121s on a bassoon. But I haven't ever
> > recorded one so I'm speculating based primarily on my experience with
> > clarinets and the like.
> >
> > ulysses
> >
> >
> > In article >, Chris
> > Seifert > wrote:
> >
> > > Man what a tricky instrument to record. I had to record a few duets
> > > this week with bassoon/piano and bassoon/cello.
> > >
> > > I haven't struggled as hard to get a sound in a while. The basson was
> > > the featured instrument and so it needed to be predominate in the mix.
> > > What I ended up settling on was recording the bassoon from about 4
> > > feet away at the players eye level with a U87 in omni. If I used
> > > cardiod I got more isolation but lost some of the character of the
> > > bassoon as cardiod seemed to only focus on the area of the bassoon
> > > that the mic was aimed at and didn't capture the "whole" instrument.
> > > However having the mic in omni gave alot of room tone and it was a
> > > battle of getting the mic close enough to have a useable track but not
> > > to close as to zero in on only one aspect of the bassoon tone.
> > >
> > > Luckily the room and players were great so this micing issue was the
> > > toughest part of the entire session by far. I'm just wondering for
> > > future sessions, does anyone have any great bassoon recording
> > > techniques they want to share...
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > wavetrap



Man, this thread is really helpful to me. I had a session with a
Bassoon and I now realize I positioned the mic too close. It ended up
picking up a lot of the clicks from the airholes opening and closing.
I was positioning the mic similar as to a sax (about 12" from center).
It´s good to read experienced techniques here.
This is one great newsgroup and I thank all of you who take the time
to contribute to it.

Ethan Winogrand
Spokes Studio
Oviedo, Spain