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Peter Larsen
November 12th 03, 12:48 PM
Mike wrote:

> Peter Larsen > wrote in
> :

> > Now I just need to understand why "doing nothing" in a pure 16 bit audio
> > program like Cool96 sounds cleaner than "doing nothing" in a 32 bit
> > audio program and to check whether Arne E. Jensens observation that some
> > software destroys natural ambience really stands.

> Can you elaborate on this??

Take a good stereo recording, record it on your daw with CE96 and save
the file, record it with CE2k and save the file. Compare. What Arne did
was to make some binaural recordings with the old Sennheiser dangle from
ear mics and a minidisk.

His observation was that their spatial rendering collapses to "rear
hemisphere location only" when the file is saved from - generally
speaking - an audio program that does 32 bit internal processing even if
all that is done is to record the file in it.

I found this claim somewhat peculiar, and it neither was nor is
something I really worry about, because I am rarely so much of a purist
as to do absolutely nothing after recording something, so the
"processing fog" is the price I have to pay. Also the simplest check is
to use kunstkopf recordings - obviously - and I haven't got any, nor
have I *Ever* heard kunstkopf really work, I always get "rear hemisphere
location" no matter how & what.

I have yet to do a strict test as outlined above. I didn't really take
it seriously - plain too far out imho - until people started confirming
the observation. It is however well known to me that all one has to do
to a 16 bit digital recording is to send it through a 24 bit box (name
omitted so as to not cloud the issue) and it will loose the fine spatial
detail and get foggy, so while I plain fail to comprehend how Arne can
be right I feel I have to assume that he plain possibly could.

Generally speaking this is the sort of subtlety that is of interest to
those who can hear the difference between when enabling superbitmapping
on a Sony DAT 2000. It will in my opinion lead to improved treble
"sound", but also to a loss of perspective. It may however be a MAJOR
concern IF it is correct that binaural recordings can be destroyed via a
simple digital transfer and bit-depth alteration.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

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* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
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Peter Larsen
November 12th 03, 12:50 PM
Arny Krueger wrote:

> >> Now I just need to understand why "doing nothing" in a pure 16 bit
> >> audio program like Cool96 sounds cleaner than "doing nothing" in a
> >> 32 bit audio program and to check whether Arne E. Jensens
> >> observation that some software destroys natural ambience really
> >> stands.

> > Can you elaborate on this??

> I think it's just a matter of casual listening tests involving subtle
> effects and the fact that people can say the darnedest things.

It was my initial opinion, I have yet to rule it out. Arne E. Jensen is
however a highly respected and in my opinion generally credible
listener.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Peter Larsen
November 12th 03, 08:07 PM
Mike wrote:

>> His observation was that their spatial rendering collapses to "rear
>> hemisphere location only" when the file is saved from - generally
>> speaking - an audio program that does 32 bit internal processing even
>> if all that is done is to record the file in it.

> Well that should be very easy to (dis)prove by recording (for instance) the
> same SPDIF audio stream to two seperate programs and then comparing the
> files bit-for-bit??

Great idea, thanks. Basically however this observation appears to be
about differences in behaviour between software that uses 32 bit
internally and software that doesn't, and I had not a priori assumed
that they will produced identical bit streams. However IF they do, then
it shold be a fairly final disprovement. My idea was more in the
direction of setting an ABX comparison up using Arny's ABX program.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********