Re: Otari is Closing It's Doors

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> http://tinyurl.com/uk5w

Who's Mitch? Is he Otari USA?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
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[hollywood_steve]

Pat Janes > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (e.maynard) wrote:
>
> > It's a Damn shame
>
> There's nothing about it on the Otari website.

Whether truth or rumour, it was the topic du jour at the big pro audio
place in LA today. No one expressed much surprise other than to
comment on Otari's introduction of new products at AES and their full
page ad in the current Mix; not typically the acts of a company about
to pull the plug.

Another thing that struck me today, while standing in room filled with
nearly 30 two inch 16 & 24 track machines, and at least another 30
1/4" machines (mostly little Otari 5050s stacked 3 deep in places),
was that whatever interest in tape machines still existed the last
couple of years has just finally dried up. I know this doesn't seem
like news to anyone who sold their Studer 4 years ago for a PT rig,
but its different now. I can't tell you how many times I've been in
that shop over the last few years while a pair of 20-somethings who
had just sold their first song were excitedly checking out the two
inch machines for their new studio in the Hollywood Hills. But now
the front half of that room looks more like a museum than a store.
I'd bet that not one machine in that section ever leaves that room
other than on its way to the junkyard. That means that 1/2 the floor
space of that store is crammed with gear that is now worthless, or
worse - it will cost money to get rid of all that stuff. Prior to
last weeks NYC AES show, any write-up of previous shows always
mentioned the refurbished machines available from ATR Service Company;
there was even talk about an all-new design - a brand new tape
recorder! But I haven't read anything about them at last months's
show. (and their ad that ran in Mix for many years is no longer
there)

Sorry if all this sounds like I just realized something that everybody
else aleady knew, but it seems like even that last 10% of analog
holdouts have quietly turned out the lights and gone home. And none
of us even noticed until they were already gone.

steve

[Bryson]

Yes, in Canoga Park.
He's involved with orders and shipping of parts, etc.



Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article > writes:
>
>
>>http://tinyurl.com/uk5w
>
>
> Who's Mitch? Is he Otari USA?
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Sean Conolly]

"hollywood_steve" > wrote in message
om...
> Another thing that struck me today, while standing in room filled with
> nearly 30 two inch 16 & 24 track machines, and at least another 30
> 1/4" machines (mostly little Otari 5050s stacked 3 deep in places),
> was that whatever interest in tape machines still existed the last
> couple of years has just finally dried up. I know this doesn't seem
> like news to anyone who sold their Studer 4 years ago for a PT rig,
> but its different now. I can't tell you how many times I've been in
> that shop over the last few years while a pair of 20-somethings who
> had just sold their first song were excitedly checking out the two
> inch machines for their new studio in the Hollywood Hills. But now
> the front half of that room looks more like a museum than a store.
> I'd bet that not one machine in that section ever leaves that room
> other than on its way to the junkyard. That means that 1/2 the floor
> space of that store is crammed with gear that is now worthless, or
> worse - it will cost money to get rid of all that stuff.

Maybe I should take my truck over and offer to help them clear some space
:-)

Personally I'd love to have one of those tape machines for tracking, but I
get the feeling that the cost of ownership is fairly high, or at least for
the two inch units.

Sean

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Another thing that struck me today, while standing in room filled with
> nearly 30 two inch 16 & 24 track machines, and at least another 30
> 1/4" machines (mostly little Otari 5050s stacked 3 deep in places),
> was that whatever interest in tape machines still existed the last
> couple of years has just finally dried up.

> I can't tell you how many times I've been in
> that shop over the last few years while a pair of 20-somethings who
> had just sold their first song were excitedly checking out the two
> inch machines for their new studio in the Hollywood Hills. But now
> the front half of that room looks more like a museum than a store.

That sounds like Coast Recording. It's always looked like a museum,
even 20 years ago.

> Prior to
> last weeks NYC AES show, any write-up of previous shows always
> mentioned the refurbished machines available from ATR Service Company;
> there was even talk about an all-new design - a brand new tape
> recorder! But I haven't read anything about them at last months's
> show.

ATR Service was indeed there and they're still in business. The idea
of building a new analog recorder was shelved a couple of years ago,
however, because they knew that they couldn't make one for a price
that anyone would pay. It was more economical to recycle an already
good design like the ATR-100, rework it mechanically to be better than
ever, and build new electronics for it. Last show, Dave Hill's
electronics for the ATR was new so I mentioned it. This year, it was
last year's news.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> Personally I'd love to have one of those tape machines for tracking, but I
> get the feeling that the cost of ownership is fairly high, or at least for
> the two inch units.

It depends on how much you use it, and in what shape it is when you
buy it. Most of those machines (if we're talking Coast here) have
pretty much gone to the end of their life as a full time busy studio
recorder, but still have several good years in them if you use them
just a few hours a month and can keep up with mechanical and
electronic adjustments (not difficult once you learn how, and invest
in a modest amount of test equipment and reference calibration tape)
and you don't feel compelled to re-cap it entirely before you put any
of your pristine audio through it.

The real cost of ownership is in tape. Cheap hard disk space has put
us into the habit of recording a whole lot, saving everything, and
eventually sorting it out and making something musical out of it.
You'd run out of money and storage space if you did that with 2" tape
so you need to learn to work differently and make decisions as you go.

On the other hand, unless there's been a radical change recently (in
which case, that large floor full of recorders would have been cleared
out), Coast Recorders doesn't sell anything at giveaway prices. The
24-track MCI JH24 recently offered here for $2750 with the remote
would probably be priced at $15,000 or more at Coast. If they needed
the floor space, they'd put all the stock up on eBay and expect to get
about 20% of the tagged price. Since they haven't, I assume they don't
know what they'd do with all that space if it was clear. A museum of
recorders is much more interesting to people who come in to buy mics
or outboard gear than a museum of old computers.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

[JWelsh3374]

<< Cheap hard disk space has put
us into the habit of recording a whole lot, saving everything, and
eventually sorting it out and making something musical out of it. >>


My favorite Mike quote this year.

Fortunately, I have not gotten into that habit yet. But the cut and paste
sounding songs I am hearing these days leads me to believe mister Mike is
correct.


searching for peace, love and quality footwear
guido

http://www.guidotoons.com
http://www.theloniousmoog.com
http://www.luckymanclark.com

[Benjamin Maas]

"Sean Conolly" > wrote in message
>
> Maybe I should take my truck over and offer to help them clear some space
> :-)
>
> Personally I'd love to have one of those tape machines for tracking, but I
> get the feeling that the cost of ownership is fairly high, or at least for
> the two inch units.
>
> Sean
>
>

Sounds like he was at Coast recording supply...

The reason a lot of that crap is sitting around there is because of what
they charge for it. I regularly see used gear there that costs every bit as
much (or sometimes more) than the new stuff goes for... Schoeps and Neumann
SD mics for over $1K. May as well purchase it new (sometimes their new
prices are lower than their used ones...)

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

[Charles Thomas]

In article <Tausb.181669$Tr4.505253@attbi_s03>,
"Benjamin Maas" > wrote:

I regularly see used gear there that costs every bit as
> much (or sometimes more) than the new stuff goes for... Schoeps and Neumann
> SD mics for over $1K. May as well purchase it new (sometimes their new
> prices are lower than their used ones...)


Yeah, man.... but it's VINTAGE!

CT

[Analogeezer]

(JWelsh3374) wrote in message >...
> << Cheap hard disk space has put
> us into the habit of recording a whole lot, saving everything, and
> eventually sorting it out and making something musical out of it. >>
>
>
> My favorite Mike quote this year.
>
> Fortunately, I have not gotten into that habit yet. But the cut and paste
> sounding songs I am hearing these days leads me to believe mister Mike is
> correct.
>
>
> searching for peace, love and quality footwear
> guido
>
> http://www.guidotoons.com
> http://www.theloniousmoog.com
> http://www.luckymanclark.com

The last time I bought analog tape, the guy asked me what kind of deck
I had. Then he remarked about the cost of tape "analog is a great
bull**** filter, you don't tend to record bull**** just because you
can".

I thought that was a great quote...

Analogeezer

[hollywood_steve]

doesn't sell anything at giveaway prices. The
> 24-track MCI JH24 recently offered here for $2750 with the remote
> would probably be priced at $15,000 or more at Coast. If they needed
> the floor space, they'd put all the stock up on eBay and expect to get
> about 20% of the tagged price. Since they haven't, I assume they don't
> know what they'd do with all that space if it was clear. A museum of
> recorders is much more interesting to people who come in to buy mics
> or outboard gear than a museum of old computers.

Another recent event being discussed that day that adds perspective:
one of the semi-notable LA studios was just making the rounds trying
to unload two MTR90s that were supposedly in very nice shape. Their
asking price to the dealers: $1k for both - NO SALE. for TWO Otari
MTR90s. (Yes, I said "No way" but was repeatedly assured that this
had just happened.) This means that, at least in LA, tape recorders no
longer have ANY wholesale value, they are only worth what you can get
out of some enthusiastic new studio builder.

What really surprised me was that 350 / 351 electronics units are now
starting to litter the shelves and gather dust. They used to fly out
the door either to diehard tape freaks or at least as mic preamps. I
mistakenly thought those were still heading up in value, but they're
not even holding even. Don't even ask about the transports, SoCal
area landfills are probably gonna start posting "No Ampex transports"
signs soon.

[Scott Dorsey]

hollywood_steve > wrote:
>
>What really surprised me was that 350 / 351 electronics units are now
>starting to litter the shelves and gather dust. They used to fly out
>the door either to diehard tape freaks or at least as mic preamps. I
>mistakenly thought those were still heading up in value, but they're
>not even holding even. Don't even ask about the transports, SoCal
>area landfills are probably gonna start posting "No Ampex transports"
>signs soon.

In the late eighties, you could get a 350 with two channels of electronics
for $200 from Harris/Allied. They weren't bad machines, and there were a lot
of them from broadcast facilities on the market for cheap.

Then this whole weird "tube mike pre" thing became popular, and huge numbers
of people in the mid-nineties were buying 350 machines, or even 354 machines
(most of which didn't even HAVE the mike preamp modules) in order to throw
the transport out and use the electronics packages as mike preamps. "Ampex"
became synonymous with "tube mike preamp" in the low end engineer's mind.
I told someone I had bought an Ampex ATR-100, and he said "What is, that
a mike preamp?" Very weird.

At the time, there were HUGE numbers of transports available for the asking
because people were stripping the machines and had the transports available.

The thing is, the Ampex 350 doesn't have a very good preamp section, really.
When I was using 350s for concert recording work, I was using outboard preamps
because the internal preamps weren't really all that good.

So, it's good to see that this fad, like many of them, is starting to peter
out. The 350 isn't a bad tape machine and if you can still pick one up for
$200 it's a good way to get into the analogue tape thing. But to pay a
couple thousand dollars for electronics packages gutted out of one to use
as a mike preamp is just insane.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[knud]

>But now
>the front half of that room looks more like a museum than a store.
>I'd bet that not one machine in that section ever leaves that room
>other than on its way to the junkyard. That means that 1/2 the floor
>space of that store is crammed with gear that is now worthless, or
>worse - it will cost money to get rid of all that stuff.

I'll take it!


blahblah
ALL MUSIC IS ORIGINAL...
EVEN IF ONLY ONE NOTE IS CHANGED!
EVERYONE CREATES IN A VACUUM!

[ScotFraser]

<< Another thing that struck me today, while standing in room filled with
nearly 30 two inch 16 & 24 track machines, and at least another 30
1/4" machines (mostly little Otari 5050s stacked 3 deep in places),
was that whatever interest in tape machines still existed the last
couple of years has just finally dried up. I know this doesn't seem
like news to anyone who sold their Studer 4 years ago for a PT rig,
but its different now. I can't tell you how many times I've been in
that shop over the last few years while a pair of 20-somethings who
had just sold their first song were excitedly checking out the two
inch machines for their new studio in the Hollywood Hills. But now
the front half of that room looks more like a museum than a store. I'd bet that
not one machine in that section ever leaves that room
other than on its way to the junkyard. >>

Sure, but I'd say that's because the prices in that store are absolutely
ridiculous. If Jerry & Shelly ever bothered to check out the Internet they'd
see that they're about 15 years out of date on every used item in the store.

Scott Fraser

[Mr Layaway]

>Sure, but I'd say that's because the prices in that store are absolutely
>ridiculous. If Jerry & Shelly ever bothered to check out the Internet they'd
>see that they're about 15 years out of date on every used item in the store.

Can you give some specific examples?

[Scott Dorsey]

Mr Layaway > wrote:
>>Sure, but I'd say that's because the prices in that store are absolutely
>>ridiculous. If Jerry & Shelly ever bothered to check out the Internet they'd
>>see that they're about 15 years out of date on every used item in the store.
>
>Can you give some specific examples?

Pick up something off the shelf. There's your example.

I've occasionally bought stuff like reel flanges there, and I'll buy stuff
that I can't find anywhere else when they have it, but their prices in
general don't seem to reflect the real world and they won't negotiate much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Geoley]

I talked to Mitch Gibney in the Otari parts and service department today in
Canoga Park while in the process of ordering some replacement parts for my
MX5050 BII, and the conversation got around to the rumor that Otari was
closing up shop. Not true says Mitch! It is only going to be a name change
from Otari USA to Otari Sales USA. He also told me that there was a price
increase of about 10% on parts. Thought I'd pass this on.

Geoley